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Where is the efficacy for that decision?
No evidence-based medicine. People have no idea just how much goes into defining “The Label” what you can and can’t claim. Every sentence is carefully scrutinised by company and agency. Companies like Pfizer and GSK were fined billions (yea billions) for promoting off-label use of medicines. Apparently it’s OK for the government to do the same.
I’d be running a randomised open label trial to look at immunity and protection in the UK rollout. I’m not even sure what informed consent means when used off-label. Pfizer aren’t happy either.
We’ll probably run out of needles before we run out of vaccine. Such is the UK.
Pfizer aren’t happy either.
I'll bet there are more than a few GP receptionists not looking forward to trying to get a full schedule of vulnerable patients set up a very short notice, too. Missed appointments and doses expiring before they get used?
I’m being told that even those already jabbed will now return in 12 weeks
Care home residents in my area are still getting the second dose after 21 days, but all NHS staff have had their second dose pushed out to 10 weeks.
If anyone is interested the prescribing information is published here and the label for use is very clear - two doses 21 days apart, full protection 7 days thereafter. Not to be mixed with other vaccines. There is rat reprotox data but no monkey data reported. Presumably speed played some part.
Pfizer have approval but not a marketing authorisation. It can be used, but they can’t sell it. Presumably HMG did pay for the doses being given out, but that’s not a given.
I’ll bet there are more than a few GP receptionists not looking forward to trying to get a full schedule of vulnerable patients set up a very short notice, too. Missed appointments and doses expiring before they get used?
I don't understand that mindset. Everyone I know directly involved in the roll out is dying to get started, okay it's the NHS and GP Receptionists do have a reputation... but still everyone I know it up for it.
As for vaccines expiring, the vaccines being sent to GPs are the Oxford ones, they're good for 6 months in a fridge.
As for people refusing the vaccine, in my very limited experience there's a lot of people in their 20s 30s and 40s banging their gums about it being 'untested' or whatever, because they're in the enviable position of being very unlikely to get seriously ill or dying from Covid, older people and vulnerable people are far more keen to have it.
P-Jay
Full MemberI don’t understand that mindset. Everyone I know directly involved in the roll out is dying to get started, okay it’s the NHS and GP Receptionists do have a reputation… but still everyone I know it up for it.
I think it's more that they had plans made and had communicated the original second dose timings and in some cases will even have made appointments for second doses and then it all got chucked out the window with no notice. Doesn't just waste all that time, it makes the job harder when you have to do it- and as ever the message has been muddled so that people will be more likely not to turn up for the second dose as they don't think it's as important....
FWIW my dad had jab #1 in mid Dec and was due for #2 this week. He got a text this morning confirming that his next appointment WILL go ahead as planned. That's cheered him up a bit.
AndyRM - I’ve just been put through to the online training modules and pre-employment checks. Hopefully we will have a crack STW team of vaccinators !
Awesome work! If you need any pointers, let me know 👍👍👍
dantsw13 all ready for action!
I do have a pink roadie top and socks..........
As for vaccines expiring, the vaccines being sent to GPs are the Oxford ones, they’re good for 6 months in a fridge.
Seems to still be a mixture of the 2 still but Oxford is becoming the norm.
I’m getting my first jab this morning.
With such an incompetent government overpromising all and sundry, dont expect to see a vaccine for the general population before next Christmas.
All done dead straight forward.
On care homes - this is why they are high priority for vaccination
Good news that the press attention of the last 48hrs should result in 11,000 community pharmacies being involved. Should help the scale-up.
The DoH have a bit of a blind spot about their potential to deliver services still despite playing lip service to their status as HCPs for years. The initial local enhanced service that they could apply to do at the back end of December had too many hurdles, not least a commitment for doing 1000 per week so not many pharmacies could get involved at that scale. To be fair, that was due to the need to do 195 vials of pfizer vaccines in a box coming out of deep freeze.
I was vaccinated on Tuesday. Wow, I felt properly ill yesterday. I caught COVID pretty badly back in April and asking around a small sample of people I know it does seem that if you have already had COVID, the vaccine side effects are worse. Not complaining though, I'll happily take short term side effects as the cost of being vaccinated.
Nice one - which priority group are you in, out of interest?
@tjagain - that is a scary read 🙁
My father lives in a block of about 60 flats in a housing association retirement living scheme. The young folk in the building are 55, his two neighbours on the landing 87 and 92... The whole building and the carers who are in and out all day long are pretty terrified at the moment.
Nice one – which priority group are you in, out of interest?
Social Care worker. I manage services and need to work in care homes.
Cheers, it's nice to hear that the frontline workers are getting jabbed now.
Maybe thats a sign that the remains of the virus are still in your system and it's a fight between the two.
In the "Black Hole of Sussex" nobody here is getting vaccinated. We aren't affiliated to any zone at the moment. Same for my mum in Norfolk.
My step dad refused the jab as it "wasn't convenient".
I despair.
Got my jab (Pfizer) at the Louisa Jordan temp hosp in Glasgow. Very efficient system. I was out the door before my appt time having arrived a bit early due to train times.
Waiting to see what side effects I get. People I know who have had it varied from zero to serious fatigue for a few days.
Waiting to see what side effects I get. People I know who have had it varied from zero to serious fatigue for a few days.
From my wife's covid testing team, the folks that have had the virus get the side effect. Anecdotal, yes, but hey!.
Great to see more than half of all care home residents in scotland have now had first jag. 🤞🏻
My step dad refused the jab as it “wasn’t convenient”.
I despair.
my mum told me her next door neighbour is due for a jab early next week but ‘doesn’t want that German one’...
Thankfully my dad is very sensible and had his second jab on Tuesday. Just need to get my mum on the list (she’s just under 80) so fingers crossed they’ll both be sorted by Easter.
I however have already given up on getting it in 2021.
Waiting to see what side effects I get. People I know who have had it varied from zero to serious fatigue for a few days.
My father had a slightly sore arm the day after, that’s all. He has never had any Covid symptoms before the jab. It appears that he is getting his second dose as planned- it would seem his surgery in Southampton have taken the decision to do this for the over 85’s already vaccinated. Rather selfishly I am pleased for him.
Mrs Jay is getting her first one today and second 19th of March. She's not been told which one yet, or indeed if she's get a choice.
I'm really pleased.
A sign of things to come?
Yes.
There will be inflammatory news stories continually throughout this vaccine roll out.
There will be logistical problems, this is a huge project, massive, it's hard to understand the scale of it, I don't know if the Army getting involved will help, or it's just another Boris PR stunt, but in fairness they have a huge amount of human resource and a lot of experience of moving stuff about at short notice, so I'd say so.
Also, before this becomes a 'story' somehow, the vaccine is not 100% effective, BBC Wales are currently running a story about a Nurse who had the vaccines and then caught covid 3 weeks later like it's a big scandal. This will happen too. She had milder symptoms than her family.
Just submitted my application for the volunteer vacinator role via the St John's Ambulance route. Interview next Wednesday. No idea if they'll want me but nothing to lose so worth a try.
Good on you 👍. Whilst I understand the reticence of some of the professionals on here, the truth is we need everyone available to make this work.
Good stuff, well done sir.
Wife (nurse) starts next week, though she has a 20hr online training module to do before monday, in her own time. Bah.
Well done @blokeuptheroad 👍
We're starting to build quite a little STW volunteer army. That is so good. If anyone needs pointers on the modules/elearning/certificate uploading etc, just message me.
As someone who isn't in a position to help out directly with jabbing people, can I just say a big "thank you" to those of you who are. Thanks guys, you rule.
^ +1000000
Guys, I can see I've got a couple of DMs from people who I've been speaking to about this, but for some reason can't toggle the button on my phone screen - will jump on my laptop in a bit once the kids are set up for the day 👍
BBC Wales are currently running a story about a Nurse who had the vaccines and then caught covid 3 weeks later like it’s a big scandal. This will happen too. She had milder symptoms than her family.
That's how vaccines work mostly, like the flu vaccine, potentially you'll still get the virus but it's more survivable & less likely you'll be in hospital. You'd have thought a nurse would know this 🤷♂️
Heard yesterday I've an appointment for first jab next Friday, cancelling my WiFi contract on Thursday as I won't need it after the chip is activated on the 5g network 👌
Mum's mate's cousin in a care home died 6 days after getting the vaccine. Didn't have any covid symptoms but 4 of her fellow residents did, and they all died.
That said, she was 89 and very frail, and it needs a couple of weeks to provide immunity they say, so tragically it appears the vaccine came just a few weeks late for them.
There's going to be a *lot* of that I'm afraid. Not even necessarily "too late" but even 90% protection will still leave quite a lot of people dying in that sort of situation where the unvaccinated fatality rate can be over 10%. The virus is so prevalent that probably most people who have any sort of socially mixed situation (which living in a care home certainly is) is likely to be exposed over the next few weeks.
had my first jab this afternoon by chance thanks to a suggestion on here for emergency services workers to try their luck towards the end of the day if there are any left over or missed appointments.
i was just passing the local doctors surgery, saw it was a vaccine centre this weekend so thought no harm in asking. i explained that i didnt want to take a jab away from someone vulnerable, but they ushered me in, i filled in a form and had it straight away. it was set up really well with an efficient system.
i feel it was my lucky day.
STW - doing a better job of recruiting vaccinators and helping emergency services workers get a jab than the GOVERNMENT. Brilliant!
Interesting to hear some 2nd doses are going ahead, the national directive was to stop all 2nds and rebook, which we have just completed in our region today.
We desperately need more staff, but being rural staff just are not there who can jab. Our acute hospitals are also crippled with influx of patients and not enough staff.
Still we are rattling through the care homes.
Now we are just waiting for the local booking solution to crumble just as the national solution will come online and save the day 😂
My In-Laws had the 1st injection on the 17th December and their 2nd on the 7th Jan aged 80 & 81
Some friends local to them in their 90's but registered with another practice haven't even had a call, seems a bit random?
Mum, 88, hasn't even had a call for her first, so seems a bit post code lottery-ish.
Ricmars- neither has my 86 year old mum or any of her friends.
But as of Friday only 25% of the over 80d had been done as reported by Johnson. I guess those whose parents have been done are posting, which is fine, good to hear it's moving forward, but isn't reflective of the majority yet.
It will be in area specific as well as GP centres will be get batches - there was a GP on the news yesterday saying they were not due to get any vaccines until later next week.
Not that any of that makes it less stressful waiting for to get the call or making sure she is checking got emails and text messages
Re the comments above - in England all data is submitted nationally where they can work out which cohorts are being done and are they sticking to the 75/20/5 splits.
Apparently many areas in the uk are not, but this could be for many reasons.
I myself are waiting for my elderly parents to be done, but because they some distance from current open centres they haven’t been called.
Our region is up to 600 doses per day. By next Monday that should at least 2,500 and before the end of Jan 7,000 per day
When you get vaccinated do you receive some sort of certificate or is it just added to your medical history?
So apparently every adult in UK will have been offered a vaccine by mid Sep.
Unless that offer is 'you can get a vaccination, in January' then I call bullshit.
By my maths they'll require over 3 million jabs a week to hit that target once you factor in the 12 week booster.
Son and youngest daughter just back from having there’s at Stafford show ground. Said it was well organised, (Wife and eldest daughter already been done), so just me now but I suspect that will be a few years away!
Son and youngest daughter just back from having there’s at Stafford show ground. Said it was well organised, (Wife and eldest daughter already been done), so just me now but I suspect that will be a few years away!
Hang about. How have your kids managed to get the jab? (Or are they grown up kids working for nhs etc?)
DrJ
Free Member
When you get vaccinated do you receive some sort of certificate or is it just added to your medical history?
You're not a real doctor, are you? 😁
Currently it just goes into your medical record. There might well be some sort of certificate available in future, for travel etc. but there's enough to organise already 🙂
Just had my 2nd dose of the Pfizer one,
The wife is back from her first jab (pharmacy worker).
I'll be at the back of the queue (which is fine) unless they prioritize people that can't work from home, then I'll be near the back of the queue.
Whilst I don’t/won’t vote for my local MP, Huw Merriman, I’ve just received a very good email from him, linking to his website detailing all the vaccination centres in the constituency, any blank spots & what is being done to sort it.
Compare & contrast to my mums MP, Lizz Truss, who has no info, just self publicity.
It’s interesting hearing so many people say they had a very sore arm after the first injection
I’m on the novavax trial and also had a very sore arm for a few days. It’s hard not to want to speculate!
Doesn’t sound like you had the placebo then! 👍
Currently it just goes into your medical record. There might well be some sort of certificate available in future, for travel etc. but there’s enough to organise already,
We're not getting "I've been a brave boy/girl stickers"? What about lollipops?
This could be a deal-breaker. 🙂
Wife and co-workers had Pfizer jab.
Anecdotally, those that have had confirmed or suspected covid (the pre testing, "thrown under bus in March" cohort) get a bit of a wallop from the first jab - even to the point of being off work.
Those who have shown no sign of covid get a sore arm.
It’s interesting hearing so many people say they had a very sore arm after the first injection
I’m on the novavax trial and also had a very sore arm for a few days. It’s hard not to want to speculate!
Wife's arm was sore for about 12 hours, then a bit tender for a bit. A "Good immune response" they call it. I get the same from a Flu jab.
Frankly, I'll be more sore after a day of stripping wallpaper, I wouldn't let it put me off.
STW – doing a better job of recruiting vaccinators and helping emergency services workers get a jab than the GOVERNMENT
I'm pretty sure STW could do a better job than the government at most things, though it's not really a high bar at the moment.
Had my video interview for the volunteer vaccinator role this morning. It seemed to go well and my referees have since been contacted and I've had an email pointing me toward the online training. Just waiting for a login for the e-learning site now. It seems there are a whole load of St Johns Ambulance modules to do, then some face to face training then some NHS e-learning modules. I'm not sure until I log in, how long all this will take but keen to get stuck in.
We’re not getting “I’ve been a brave boy/girl stickers”? What about lollipops?
We've had lots of requests for a cup of tea while people have been sitting out their 15 minutes post-jab tedium.
We told them bollox and gave them some smarties 🙂
We ran out of smarties really quickly...
Got my 5g chip injection on Tuesday, can’t wait
Got my 5g chip injection on Tuesday, can’t wait
If your mobile phone runs out of data, you can bluetooth it to yourself - built in on-board internet, what's not to like? 🙂
It’s a win win
Ms fadda had hers yesterday - her arm was a bit sore last night, but okay today.
She's a dental hygeinist, so in close contact with 15+ people every day, so I'm happy for her to have had it.
Just waiting for mine, but as a relatively healthy 56 y-o who works at home, I'm a bit down the list yet...
We ran out of smarties really quickly…
It's a government run project, this is to be expected.
I really hope that this nightmare will end soon
Whilst I don’t/won’t vote for my local MP, Huw Merriman, I’ve just received a very good email from him, linking to his website detailing all the vaccination centres in the constituency, any blank spots & what is being done to sort it.
I'm a bit naughty/lazy - I never changed GP when I last moved.
I am correctly registered on the electoral roll, council tax etc though.
What is used for the purpose of vaccinations? Both the planning of, and contacting me to get?
No rush, I'm probably not going to be due until august unless I get a bit of a bump due to the nature of my job.
Had my video interview for the volunteer vaccinator role this morning. It seemed to go well and my referees have since been contacted and I’ve had an email pointing me toward the online training. Just waiting for a login for the e-learning site now. It seems there are a whole load of St Johns Ambulance modules to do, then some face to face training then some NHS e-learning modules. I’m not sure until I log in, how long all this will take but keen to get stuck in.
Well done for joining in, I assume you're not already a Medic of some kind?
Wife has volunteered to, they call it volunteering, she's being paid her usual salary for it.
She's got to have an interview to make sure she's up to it, she's been qualified for years to give injections, but there's a procedure. I think she's hoping to start next weekend.
I really hope that this nightmare will end soon
I'm sure more Smarties will be available once they clear the backlog at the ports
I really hope that this nightmare will end soon
The government have all this in hand. We have a good exit strategy and clear precise objectives.
We have bought the best track and trace system in the world, done loads of structural work on schools to improve ventilation systems and make them safer and generally seem to be really learning from our mistakes and copying the examples of the countries with really low death rates.
Even if there is another mutation over the summer and we have a new strain that is resistant to current vaccines it wont be a problem.
I really hope that this nightmare will end soon
I'm a hopeless optimist, but we're certainly nearer the end than the start.
It's largely out of the hands of the Gov now and with the NHS. I'm got my own frustrations with the speed of the vaccine roll-out, but then people do like the sue the NHS when things go wrong so they're sometimes cautious.
It's frustrating when the report that we've 'only' vaccinated 3% of the population, or whatever it is now, but that's still a staggering number and we're not yet 2 weeks into deploying a vaccine that don't need specialist storage etc.
I honestly believe a month from now we'll really be seeing the effect of the vaccine in the numbers of deaths and hospital admissions, numbers *should* drop really rapidly once the over-70s are protected.
Well done for joining in, I assume you’re not already a Medic of some kind?
Wife has volunteered to, they call it volunteering, she’s being paid her usual salary for it.
She’s got to have an interview to make sure she’s up to it, she’s been qualified for years to give injections, but there’s a procedure. I think she’s hoping to start next weekend.
I have no medical qualifications at all, other than basic first aid. There are two routes into this as I understand it. One via the NHS professionals website which is aimed at people with some medical experience (though not limited to ex NHS, see earlier in the thread for airline cabin crew, fire fighters etc). I believe this is paid. It sounds as if this is the route your wife has taken.
The second route which I am following is via the St John's Ambulance service. This does not require any prior experience and is unpaid. The e-learning is delivered by both SJA and the NHS. There is also face to face training and of course once qualified you will be part of a team with lots of experienced professionals close at hand.
There's also this route for helping out without needing any qualifications or DBS checks or anything:
https://nhsvolunteerresponders.org.uk/i-want-to-volunteer/volunteer-roles/steward-volunteer
For those who might be interested, I got my ID check thing back for the non-clinical volunteer role in 6 days. Only needed a photo of my driving licence.
Oh and it looks like my company are going to agree to let me do some on work time!
I wish I was surprised…
A healthcare company ultimately controlled by leading Tory donor and former party chairman, Lord Ashcroft, has received a £350m contract as part of the government’s COVID-19 vaccination roll-out, openDemocracy has learned.