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.... but can you find a graph of the number of people receiving the jab anywhere on UK media ...
Hate to think the lazy British media just prefer the doom and gloom of number of Covid 19 cases, deaths, R number, hospital beds available, etc... presented in more ways than you can shake a stick at.
Hope that Nadhim Zahawi is a typical UK political leader i.e. an influencer, admistrator, organiser and delivers a 'world leading' programme of vaccination.
I had understood that the media HAD been trying hard to get the information but that the government had not made the data available in the way that you would like. It may be that they haven’t tried hard enough, but not that they didn’t make the attempt
A minister was heard extolling that 108,000 vaccine doses had been given in the last 7 days in England. By using the 2019 population figures for England this equates to 10 years and one week to give the English just the first dose.
Good-ish news but we don't appear to have the logistics in place for a proper job.
Good-ish news but we don’t appear to have the logistics in place for a proper job.
There's one vaccine at present (though I see the US has now approved moderna) which has challenges, once those challenges are ironed out, other vaccines approved, numbers will ramp up for sure.
And tbh we don't need everyone vaccinated anyway.
@scotroutes, Thank You
Sure it will be picked up by the British media ...
Logistics should be a lot easier with the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine and Zahawi's gearing up to get that out there v v quickly indeed.
@sandwich I disagree, at least at this stage.
I despise this government for many things, but I'm a scientist, and I follow the evidence however inconvenient. So if Zahawi does manage to roll this out in a timely manner then I will celebrate that achievement in a politics agnostic way. And it's too early to tell, if you judge Bolt's 100m time based on the first three strides out of the blocks you have no idea. It will take time to speed up, it'll take time for the quantities to be available even if we had unlimited giving capacity right now.
I'm as sceptical as the next that we won't find a way to **** it up with brexit scuppering logistics, contracts to a mate of your MP who has a van and the gift of the gab, whatever, but right now there's no data either way to call it. We've just heard the bang, and we're barely moving. But we're moving....
@nickingsley - my point was more that some data is being published. While getting the vaccination programme under way did feature on national media, perhaps the current numbers look so small that shining a spotlight on them doesn't mean much. When we are up to 5, 10, 20% vaccinated, that'll be much better news.
It is good news. But it’s a bit of a stretch to claim the UK media haven’t covered it. There has been plenty of coverage of vaccine development, and now the rollout. The “voxpops” of lovable old folk who’ve taken their first dose cheered me up no end. Lots to do yet though, including keeping this virus away from people, and keeping people out of hospital, and people out of crematoriums, this winter, while the rollout is ramped up (which requires some of the other vaccines to come into use).
I would think with the increases were seeing in transmission the news story that the govt want out there isn’t one of vaccination is going great and we’ll get to you soon but vaccination could be a long time away, please keep your guard up, follow the rules and be careful.
Too much positive stuff in the news about a vaccine at this stage is likely to mean people (idiots) go nuts over Xmas thinking we can vaccinate our way out of this in January. This is unlikely to be the case for a while at least.
Hate to think the lazy British media just prefer the doom and gloom of number of Covid 19 cases, deaths, R number, hospital beds available, etc…
Good news doesn't sell papers - they will always find the worst aspect of any story, twist it a bit, and then print that.
Unfortunately some people believe what they're fed (see what's happened in the US).
Watch this space. Next vaccine approval soon. No issues with availability. Drive thru vaccinations etc etc. We will all be done by autumn.
This was covered briefly on Tim Harfords' "How to vaccinate the world" podcast (about 25 min in) - tl;dr (or tl;dl?) they were unsure whether publishing numbers on the .gov dashboard might stoke the anti-vaxxers and therefore do more harm than good. One of the participants suggested that they could do a trial publication including number of adverse reactions to see what the public response was but I think if you did that, found it was causing issues then withdrew it then that would provide even more ammunition to the nutters.
Just remember who is in charge of the logistics....
Hope that Nadhim Zahawi is a typical UK political leader i.e. an influencer, admistrator, organiser and delivers a ‘world leading’ programme of vaccination
I can't work out if there's a typo in there somewhere or if it's just sarcasm 🤔
Hope that Nadhim Zahawi is a typical UK political leader i.e. an influencer, admistrator, organiser and delivers a ‘world leading’ programme of vaccination
Let's hope so, eh. Seems like a chap with his finger on the pulse when it comes to rolling out large-scale stuff.
are we in danger of being a bit exsee here. Wanting the world to burn to prove a point.
I desperately want this to be a stonking success, but there's a guilty bit of me that hopes they **** it up again so we can nail the lid down on their government a bit more.
@theotherjonv It would appear that we received 800,000 doses in the first delivery. (source https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/03/how-the-uk-will-roll-out-the-covid-vaccine.html)
Yes it may not be right to gauge the effectiveness on the first week BUT given the incompetence and venality of the last 9 months I'm not going to hold my breath. Full credit when it's due will be granted but the previous record is not one to encourage confidence.
The BMJ is all ready reporting supply problems as of 14 December ( https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4849) as was our own docrobster.
Just once I would like a success story that delivers on the fine words but it would appear to be beyond the politicians in charge.
the inlaws (90 & 85) were due to have the jab on thursday, 3 hours alone in a freezing waiting room with the windows open, only to be told no jab as the vaccine had gone off.
Oxford vaccine is due for MHRA approval just after Christmas, according to some reports. They should already have large venues set up and new staff trained so they can start churning people through immediately. The existing infrastructure is not up to population-level immunisation programmes.
The hospital I work at has been told we will start vaccinations at the end of January, maybe. Things need to start moving faster if the promised "near normal" Easter is to be achieved. But going on past performance of promises I'm not sure which year that Easter is in.
Vaccination of the population isn't going to be a quick fix. And numbers will be slow to begin with, availability being the bottle neck. So while great news, and hopefully more vaccines get approved...
it's likely to a be a good few months yet before the numbers start to make us feel good about it all, so I'd hold off in the number hunting really.
I see no motivation for them to go slow with the vaccine, other than availability, so in general, barring logistical f-ups. I think they will get it out to people as quick as humanly possibly.
Plus, first country entirely vaccinated is a badge they'll want to have. (And I'd suggest a goal, since they went after the first country to approve badge...)
so on the 17th reuters report 140,000 received their first jabs. it's a start. during a quick trawl i turned up this guidance https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/covid-19/gp-practices/covid-19-vaccination-programme and also a line i didn't follow that stated that the GSK/AZ vaccine was going through MHRA approval.
if the bunch of clowns in government don't manage to find a way to insert themselves between healthcare professionals and patients we could be in a good place. if they do manage to pull this off i'll give them credit for it.
GSK one isn't going through approval yet.
Allocations to the vaccination hubs were tightly controlled for the first few weeks
We’ve vaccinated c2000 so far in 2 weeks but expect to ramp that up significantly in the next couple of weeks
So the numbers now won’t be anything like the numbers in Jan onwards
As others have said the number of hubs are currently small, there are plans in place to open others but there is surprising amount of work behind the scenes. They can’t just rock up at a venue, it needs assessed for suitably, access, egress, security, lighting and facilities all need checked and altered if need be. Hospitals are already setup for this process so it was easy to use them first.
Then with other vaccine approval on the way it move things along. Currently it’s been around 150k which is impressive for a starting point.
I think there was a reasonable requirement for a bit of hurrah as the vaccine became available but there has to be some more or less subtle expectation management as to how much is available, so I can see why the government aren't overdoing it.
It's available at Mrs Baron's hospital and apparently being given out (I dont know the criteria for having a jab).
Maybe it's a bit 1942: "It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"
They can’t just rock up at a venue, it needs assessed for suitably, access, egress, security, lighting and facilities all need checked and altered if need be.
A decent government would have done that many months ago...
I think a lot of doctor surgery's start next week so hopefully will get even better but I am happy with the start so far although we have little information. I personally know a few people that have had vaccine already which was a surprise fingers crossed it all works out.
A decent government would have done that many months ago…
Sort of yes but they had no real idea when the vaccine would be ready, which one would be first and taking over the venues then not using them causes issue. Up here it’s the local cricket club, it has been quite a lot of planning and awaiting final dates for work to go ahead. The club is now closed for several months possibly facing an extension, it’s hindering other plans for the club but we agreed vaccines were more important. It’s not as simple as there’s a venue let’s use that.
For a mass-vac venue to be viable it needs to be accessible and facilitate movement of large numbers of people; of the orders of thousands of people a day in some cases. You’re looking at concert venues, large sports stadia etc
Pretty much all of those venues are privately owned so leases etc need to be agreed and equipment brought in, validated and tested. Not something you can do safely overnight
Good news, just spoken to my 91 yr old neighbour, who recovered from major cancer surgery 20yrs ago, who had his 1st vaccine jab this week in the local sports centre. Interestingly he was very impressed with well organised it all was. 2nd jab early in the New Year.
Good News - 350,000 vaccinated moving along nicely.
it needs assessed for suitably, access, egress, security, lighting and facilities all need checked and altered if need be
A neice who works in disaster management currently has a contract doing exactly that. Finding suitable sites is proving quite difficult but they're getting there.
GSK one isn’t going through approval yet.
you are correct. i was out of the house before i'd realised i'd conflated it with oxford/AZ.
This needs context. Assuming it's adults only so c50milliom people X 2 jabs. So 100million actual vaccinations.
It's going to require a massive mobilisation of resources.
Even assuming a 70% take-up it's still huge numbers!
Seems that high risk healthcare workers are now included - got a text this morning and booked in for first shot on Tues
A neice who works in disaster management currently has a contract doing exactly that. Finding suitable sites is proving quite difficult but they’re getting there.
Yeah not that easy and some want to charge a Merry fortune, our cricket club have said just use it no charge.
Seems that high risk healthcare workers are now included – got a text this morning and booked in for first shot on Tues
That is good news indeed. Stay safe.
Apparently 350k have had first jab according to Boris today.
I’ve see figures of something like 25million at risk and over 50 expected to have jab. Assuming 70% take up that’s 17.5M and annual flu jab is 11M. So roughly 50% more than flu jabs. Wouldn’t be too difficult I would of thought without the extra difficulties of cold shipment of the Pfizer/BuoNtech jab. Hooefully the Oxford jab will be approved and speed this process up.
Damn - should have said of course there is the consideration of the extra complication of 2 jabs vs flu jabs!
It's 2 jabs for each person. So that's 35m by your figures. So need to get up to 2m a week
Edit - beat me to it.
It's doable - but it's a real national mobilisation situation.
Yep olddog that’s kinda what I reckon too
the **** up for my inlaws made the nationals, failed freezer trashed 975 doses.
I've heard that Aldi checkout staff are being trained to do the jabs.
Should have the whole country done by New Year.
I'm currently 8-8 every day in a vaccination centre in Ruislip - it's going really smoothly.
Loads of compliments on how well organised we are.
It's a bugger trying to find volunteers to do marshalling & greeting.
Youngest daughter is in charge of the vaccine push at local hospital trust and eldest daughter is working all the overtime she can sticking needles in people!
Proud of them both and we will get there.
My sisters optician and staff have had the first jab but my 81 yr old mum and my 80 yr old dad who’s isolating in a room in his care home for a month as a staff member had covid haven’t had a jab yet!
Thw logistics of care homes is being worked on
It’s a bugger trying to find volunteers to do marshalling & greeting.
What are all those who are still furloughed doing 🙄 Another example why I'm getting so very f***ed off with the vast majority of this country.
Waiting for the nightmare to end so they can bang out 8 weeks in a ski resort on all the unused AL...
It's looking like a million a week, so sorry to but it down to numbers but thats likely going to be the population some time next Christmas.
Might help by hanging anti-vaxxers.
It’s looking like a million a week, so sorry to but it down to numbers but thats likely going to be the population some time next Christmas.
The entire population won’t be getting it though.
My reading is...
Once the over 70s, people at high risk because of other morbidity and staff in high risk jobs have been vaccinated the hospitalisation rates and death rates will drop off massively. By the time all over 50s have been done we will more or less back to normal
If the vaccination also has an impact on transmission effect will be even quicker
So it is a massive undertaking but with organisation, competence and will mountains can be moved
Seems that high risk healthcare workers are now included – got a text this morning and booked in for first shot on Tues
👍
Olddog competence is where the wheels seem to fall off with this government. Just maybe with their mates not being involved we may stand a fighting chance as the professionals get to grips with things.
Once the over 70s, people at high risk because of other morbidity and staff in high risk jobs have been vaccinated the hospitalisation rates and death rates will drop off massively. By the time all over 50s have been done we will more or less back to normal
Agree, although there are 30 million people ager over 50 + a few million in high risk jobs so getting towards the 70% needed for herd immunity anyway.
I would estimate that is about a year away by which time it all has to be done again.
I would estimate that is about a year away by which time it all has to be done again.
It’s not been established how long the protection lasts. It may not need to be annual even if it needs repeating.
After a year of doing it don’t you think the system might be a bit better than in its first few weeks?
No cause for gloom about next December yet is all I’m saying!
What are all those who are still furloughed doing 🙄 Another example why I’m getting so very f***ed off with the vast majority of this country.
Speaking for us, my wife was furloughed but now redundant. Although she’s looking for jobs we are increasingly thinking that over the next year with the kids online learning from school situation it may be better for her to remain jobless and us live on my wages to manage the situation. I imagine other parents are thinking the same.
I think his point was those on furlough could be standing around freezing and wet in a car park for the good of the country
You know, like Lord Kitchener would want people to do 🙂
It’s a bugger trying to find volunteers to do marshalling & greeting.
Put out an appeal for some performers. A few singers marshalling and performing. The odd actor. This is their time. Add some musicians for good measure.
I’m living this daily at the moment rolling out the vaccine programme in my area
Vaccine - The vaccine has its complications, where it can be transported, how it has to be handled, who can prescribe it.
Estate - Has to be clinical grade so means lots of change for many locations + as highlighted above many locations are private owned and wanting to charge silly silly money.
Workforce- hard to come by. NHS is short staffed as is. Getting medical staff is proving hard.
IT - Because it’s a 2 dose vaccine it needs a patient record creating, and IT infrastructure. Anybody got a few 1000 devices going spare?
Some issues will reduce as different vaccines come online but not all.
I genuinely think some sites and logistics should commandeered by the government, and staff on furlough brought in to help. Should go down well too with all the lefty’s on here 😁
I'm finishing the last bits of paperwork tonight so I can be one of the vaccinators. Passed all tests/checks, prior experience put me in the "wanted" group.
Just got to do about 8 mini exams, download PDF certs then upload them, and I should then be good to go.
Boss has also been amazing regards flexibility to allow me to cover shifts at vaccination Centre.
One of the big things I think hasn't been pushed proactively enough is that airline cabin crew are all experienced in administering injections and have exceptionally high level first aid training. They're on the "wanted" list, have the right skills, but don't appear to have been really directly approached. With all the reduction in air traffic, I'd have thought the people in charge of the vaccination programme would have liaised with the airlines.
Good work Andy.
One of the big things I think hasn’t been pushed proactively enough is that airline cabin crew are all experienced in administering injections
that’s not really a very large workforce though - I’m sure they could help but they’d make a very small dent nationally
One of the big things I think hasn’t been pushed proactively enough is that airline cabin crew are all experienced in administering injections
When you say experienced is that a loose use of the word?
I genuinely think some sites and logistics should commandeered by the government, and staff on furlough brought in to help.
I agree.
The flight attendants thing might be helpful - I'll suggest it. Since we're near Heathrow it could be a goer.
When you say experienced is that a loose use of the word?
The rules (at least for this) say you can be a vaccinator with zero clinical experience if you're overseen for the first 3.
I think 🙂 I'm getting a bit weary...
When you say experienced is that a loose use of the word?
Nope. Every single cabin crew member undertakes theoretical and practical training in this and more, with annual recertification and pre flight randomised questions before every flight.
anyone who can bleed brakes using a syringe can administer an injection, shame the bike shops are so busy
As an ex-military airline captain with very little work for the next few 6 months I would be keen to help with the vaccination programme. Where do I sign up?
for all the cocknockery this place is flipping ace at times. well done fellas!
anyone who can bleed brakes using a syringe can administer an injection, shame the bike shops are so busy
Flicking around the nipple can help get those last stubborn bubbles out.
Flicking around the nipple
I think that might be problematic with the "treating patients with dignity" bit..... 😂😂😂
Yeah, but they want the vaccine a lot, so they're not going to complain when I turn them upside down, add some oil, and hit them with a spanner.
Honestly a bit mystified as to why it's volunteers at all. Seems to me like it's an actual proper job with responsibilities and training and it's a little bit important. Might sound petty but, I don't like this government getting ideas about delivering critical services via volunteers, that's a slippery slope especially as we progress further into recession and unemployment rises and they'll be waxing their sledges...
I'm assuming that, at 39, unemployed and with no health issues that I'll never be vaccinated?
Thanks for the link @andyrm I’ve just applied. Fire service so plenty of first aid type experience as well as talking to old people! Worth a bash!
Honestly a bit mystified as to why it’s volunteers at all. Seems to me like it’s an actual proper job with responsibilities and training and it’s a little bit important. Might sound petty but, I don’t like this government getting ideas about delivering critical services via volunteers, that’s a slippery slope especially as we progress further into recession and unemployment rises and they’ll be waxing their sledges…
Believe me, the application process has bedn rigorous and multi staged, there's also then the 8 online training sessions and accompanying tests, then on the job training / supervision when you are starting.
Yes, I agree that longer term there needs to be thought about how we train and create employment to support the health service and not slip into everything being done by people out of a sense of societal duty, but right now, I think that's a less important issue than getting the rollout done.
Certainly I view it that as I have the requisite skills and experience to help, it's my moral obligation to do so.