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The removal of the necessity defense was a political act of interference from a politican
From a democratically elected politician and passed by a vote in Parliament. That’s the way this whole democracy lark works,
We have to deal with the world as it is, rather than how we’d like it to de, particularly when talking about laws and rules. Everything must be universal and apply to everyone, or it’s worthless
If you want to see what the alternative looks like, with genuine interference in individual cases, then this gives something of a perspective
Russia jails US journalist Gershkovich for 16 years
"Lammy sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison."
I agree. I am confident the others would not have thought Henry VII came after Henry VIII.
Having read the judgement I realised I chose the wrong thread title. As it was a Sun journalist that infiltrated the zoom call then reported it to the police the thread should have been titled "Gotcha!"
Chris Packham and Dale Vince:
passed by a vote in Parliament
That's just it the removal of the defence was not passed by parliament it was enacted using Henry VIII rules, there was no scrutiny.
as sandwich says so very democratic.
If the government banned Greggs would you just accept it?
The lengthy multi-year sentences handed to Just Stop Oil activists are “not acceptable in a democracy”, a UN special rapporteur has said, as the government faced growing pressure to reverse the previous administration’s “hardline anti-protest” approach.
Michel Forst, the UN special rapporteur for environmental defenders, joined a growing chorus of voices condemning the sentences handed down to the five defendants for planning non-violent protests on the M25.
A host of human rights campaigners joined Forst in decrying the sentences. Sam Grant, director of advocacy at Liberty, said what appeared to be a trend for increasingly severe sentences for non-violent protest indicated “a grave erosion of … freedoms” in the UK. Hanna Hindstrom, who investigates rights abuses against environmental defenders for Global Witness, said the “incredibly harsh” sentences were “a profound injustice”.
And Tom Southerden, Amnesty International UK’s human rights adviser, called on the government to repeal the portions of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 that legislated the statutory offence of public nuisance used against the defendants.
@irc, thanks for throwing up the Judge's summing up. I was wrong; they didn't get a longer sentence for arsing about in court, but it makes for more balanced reading that this thread at least.
If you want to see what the alternative looks like
Thats the point - what we saw this week was a long way down the road to that alternative.
(The title of this thread is disgusting, the threat we face is closer to home than Moscow)
A first past the post democracy works because the policies and laws they enact are resonable and proportionate. The last Tory Government did not think laws oe decent standards applied to them and some of their Covid practices and behaviour was corrupt and illegal. The using of draconian laws and sentences to imprison people for legitimate peaceful protest is plain wrong.
The last government passed laws which undermined individuals rights to protest and this is not part of a democracy. The dragging of the goverment by various members of the Tory right is not what most people voted for.
The homeless were fortunate that they didn't make some nasty laws to stop rough sleeping.
I agree with @fasgadh these prosecutions would attact howls of protest if they happened in Russia or China.
I agree with all of that.
I just like winding TJ up 😀
The Edinburgh defence again so soon binners?
The point is it wasn't legitimate protest. That is why they were convicted. Legitimate protest would be things like marches and rallies.
The danger there being poor attendance might demonstrate the true level of support they have in the wider public.
So standing outside a oil terminal with a slogan on a bit of cardboard is not legitimate protest? You can be jailed for that. When we confronted the NF and BNP that wasn't a march or rally but it needed doing. Now some of their abhorent facist views seem to be shared by sections of the Tory party.
I suspect the disproportionately harsh sentences will have the opposite effect to that intended by the establishment.
This is what usually happens when the intellectual and moral balance of power lies with those punished.
It’s clear to anyone with any intelligence that the protesters cause is far more important than a bit of disruption and a few missed flights, no matter how irritating that might be to individuals and that the protests to come will turn violent. I fully expect innocent people will lose their lives in protest situations before humanity starts to realise climate change is an existential threat. Of course by that point many many more innocent people will have died through direct consequences of actual climate change…..
IRC - under this draconian law any protest that inconveniences anyone can be prosecuted. From attempting to stop the BNP from marching to a march or demo on any subject.
All protest is now illegal in the UK unless it has zero effect.
the CND marches, greenham common, - all now punishable by long jail tgerms
The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest
Do you think the Colston protest in Bristol was legitimate?
Exactly.
if peaceful protest is now illegal and punished by lengthy sentences why not just go straight for violent protest - what you got to lose?
The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest. That is why they were convicted.
I'd have another read of the court transcripts that you've posted. That isn't why they were convicted.
Just to lighten this thread up a bit....fun fact about Extinction Rebellion....their inaugural meeting was at a church in Macclesfield. Such an unlikely place for a movement like this to first meet!
winston
Free Member
I suspect the disproportionately harsh sentences will have the opposite effect to that intended by the establishment.
You mean the endless headlines created by the campaigns to have them released or the five page threads on social media forums?
Seems it was a JSO insider who leaked the zoom call to The Sun.
"The story had begun almost two years ago when a concerned whistleblower from JSO contacted me, prompted by a genuine fear that lives were at stake.Arrangements were made for me to infiltrate a closely guarded JSO meeting at which I listened in amazement and horror as plans were set out to bring the M25 to a halt.
""The plan is to block the M25 between now and 2023.“It’ll be daily and go on for the rest of the year.”"
Seems Hallam enjoys jail anyway according to the article.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/29351268/undercover-just-stop-oil-plot-m25/
Nobody will be jailed for standing somewhere holding a placard. This was a plan for prolonged huge disruption. Sentences well deserved.
No. I mean the letter-bombs.
Much less likely imo
Sentences well deserved.
Do you think the Colston protest in Bristol was legitimate?
Read the Guardian article linked above, an NHS GP was jailed for holding a placard outside an oil terminal.
The Sun ? Not a exactly credible and unbiased source.
Nobody will be jailed for standing somewhere holding a placard.
Under this law they can be if they inconvenience anyone in the slightest. Peaceful protest is now banned in the UK
What an odius thread :-(. Some sad colours being flown here 🙁
I think another sabbatical is in order, nothing changes here
RT
Ps might post a few tractors later 😉
In other news, leaving someone lying in the road appears to be relatively OK even if having a zoom convo about blocking one isn't.
Ps might post a few tractors later 😉
Lock 'em up!
Sentences well deserved.
Just because you keep repeating it doesn't mean it's true.
How would you go about encouraging the public and government to realise that climate change is a serious problem that they're a part of and start doing something about it?
So was that all the good news you had in mind irc or is there more?
There must be more surely?
Just because you keep repeating it doesn’t mean it’s true.
Doubling down is a classic response when limits of comprehension have been reached...
How about no droughts in India for the foreseeable future?
https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/07/18/climate-change-is-making-the-monsoon-more-dangerous
I guess @irc good news can be filed in the same bin as brexit benefits and paying multi-million pound bonuses to retain ‘talent’
No. I mean the letter-bombs.
I wouldn’t even mention that, the second they start violence they’ll be on the terrorist organisation list, that’s a whole different ball game to what’s happening now.
The point is it wasn’t legitimate protest.
1 - they weren't convicted of protesting
2 - peaceful protest is completely 100% legitimate in a functional democracy.
Our friend Irc is a piston heads regular and has enjoyed setting the cat amongst the pigeons as he said so on that forum.
Coming from that position you are bound to find it good news.
Maybe Irc should return under his bridge ?
2 – peaceful protest is completely 100% legitimate in a functional democracy.
Covered by the ECHR - that pesky thing that the last government wanted to withdraw from to bring us more into line with, er, Russia and Belarus.
Serious question… Does anyone know where they’ll serve their sentences?
They’re not exactly terrorists, so will it be some Cat C open prison or will they get shoved in somewhere terrifying with all the hard cases?
I’d imagine that’s as much of an issue as the length of their sentences
IIRC you normally start in a general prison like Strangeways or Pentonville. ( cat B?? ) After a part of your sentence you may be eligible for cat C or D YOu may have more than one catergory in each prison complex
Does anyone know where they’ll serve their sentences?
Wherever they are sent you can be sure that it will be nourishment not punishment!
They'll even get Christmas pudding at Christmas, bastards
If this was the organisers behind the ‘blade runners’ getting five years after ‘peacefully protesting’ by for cutting down hundreds of ULEZ cameras, people here would be cheering in unison.
Saw a Twitter thread about other sentances the same judge has handed out.
Deliberately crashing a car into the gates of Downing Street and possessing indecent images of children: suspended sentence
On-duty police officer having sex in a patrol car with a vulnerable woman who he’d offered to drive home after she was ejected from a nightclub: suspended sentence
Failures contributing to the spread of a fire in which two women died: £40,000 fine
Charging refugees for legal work despite having been struck off: £2858 fine
Claiming benefits while making money as the creator of Rastamouse: community service - thanks in part to an intervention by Hehir’s eight year-old daughter
If this was the organisers behind the ‘blade runners’ getting five years after ‘peacefully protesting’ by for cutting down hundreds of ULEZ cameras, people here would be cheering in unison.
That's an act of wilful vandalism - this was peaceful protest.
Have any "blade runners" received prison sentances?
You have to be an absolute boomer to celebrate this verdict
That’s an act of wilful vandalism – this was peaceful protest.
Given that JSO have done various acts including spraying paint on Stonehenge, smashing windows. damaging aircraft and vandalising artworks under the banner of ‘peaceful protest’, why, exactly, do you think that cutting down ULEZ cameras doesn’t quality?
and applied equally to all by an independent judiciary
if any of us find ourselves in a court of law, we are all subject to the same proceedings and judgements, which we will be made well aware of
We’re really not. Poor people tend to have a worse defence than rich ones. Politics and the judiciary are separate in name only. The M25 is blocked lots of times for a plethora of reasons. The rail strikes caused more inconvenience to your average working stiff over the last couple of years. Shall we take conductors and train drivers to court? Just tell them that being part of a union is no longer an acceptable defence. Much more of a ****ing nuisance than what the JSO folk did.
For what it’s worth I don’t agree with their tactics but the sentences handed down weren’t for the crimes committed. They were purely political. Making an example of people. I hope it leads to larger scale, more disruptive protests. As others have stated, if things continue as they are we may as well say bollocks to relatively harmless protests and go straight for civil unrest.
Given that JSO have done various acts including spraying paint on Stonehenge,
Wrong. It was harmless biodegradable powder
Good. 'cking nutters. Should be in the funny farm.
I dunno blokeuptheroad. These millennials are a bit much. back in my day.........
Given that JSO have done various acts including spraying paint on Stonehenge, smashing windows. damaging aircraft and vandalising artworks under the banner of ‘peaceful protest’, why, exactly, do you think that cutting down ULEZ cameras doesn’t quality?
Oh, hello Whataboutery. The topic at hand is people receiving lengthy custodial sentences for discussing legitimate protest. Famously, the "paint" they use is hoovered away in seconds - got no problem with any of them receiving realistic sentences where criminal damage is caused.
kevog
Free MemberGiven that JSO have done various acts including spraying paint on Stonehenge, smashing windows. damaging aircraft and vandalising artworks under the banner of ‘peaceful protest’, why, exactly, do you think that cutting down ULEZ cameras doesn’t quality?
Well, first, they have never sprayed paint on stonehenge. But let's not worry about the facts here, because what actually matters is that this court case was nothing to do with any of that, it was for discussing a peaceful, inconvenient but nondamaging protest. Not even for doing the protest, just for discussing it. So this is some weak-ass whataboutery. "What about these unconnected things?"
Think i said something earlier to the point, but the sad reality is that this was always going to end in a case like this. Extinction Rebellion, Just Stop Oil and others have pushed the peaceful protests for a few years now, as much as there's positives on here, they have had widespread condemnation across the country (and world), which has been played by the politicians.
Again, not picking a side, but i feel this was always going to happen with the way they were going, it has been a confrontation from the start, which is basically their mandate, i'm just glad we haven't seen a serious incident at the protests, yes i know there's been a fair bit of violence, but i'm on about the idiot doing something seriously horrific to protesters.
A few more jailed for blocking the M25.
"Five environmental activists who aimed to "create mass disruption" have been jailed for their role in protests that caused widespread traffic disruption on the M25.
The Just Stop Oil campaigners climbed gantries on the motorway in November 2022, forcing police to stop the traffic, in an attempt to cause gridlock across southern England."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgxqwwev50ko
I'll bet you're opening the Lidl champers tonight
For me it's more about proportionality of sentence... I mean you can batter someone half to death or rape someone and you might be out in 5 years with good behavior...
It's all backwards if you ask me.
theotherjonv
Full Member
as on the Stockport thread, what sentences can the rioters expect, if planning to cause a traffic jam gets five years?
Ive been wondering the same, I'm betting that basically torching city streets and attacking police will get you less time, if any. A mad old world.