[Closed] Golovkin v Alvarez

I'll be watching. Very much looking forward to it.
My money's on GGG between rounds 4-6.

GGG. Golovkin's air of invincibility has waned recently as he has begun to show his age but I think it would take a Hagler-like monster to stop him.

[i]My money's on GGG between rounds 4-6[/i]

Wow, really? Interesting... I don't think I've seen anyone get close to rocking Alvarez, let alone stop him!
Noticed in photos today that Golovkin is quite a bit bigger, didn't realise that.

GGG mid to late stoppage I reckon although it's a tough one to pick. If it went 12 I'd think that would indicate Canelo had the tactical upperhand and would get the decision.

GGG looked a bit ordinary against Jacobs but I wouldn't read much into that - seen it suggested that he was deliberately undercooking things just to coax Canelo out of hiding, which seems like a stretch, but regardless he was obv not super motivated which he will be at the weekend.

[quote=DezB ]My money's on GGG between rounds 4-6
Wow, really? Interesting... I don't think I've seen anyone get close to rocking Alvarez, let alone stop him!
Noticed in photos today that Golovkin is quite a bit bigger, didn't realise that.

GGG is a proper middleweight. First time Canelo will have fought a legit middleweight (with the exception of JCC Jr but he's a joke). GGG has fought his entire career at MW. Canelo was a SLW to begin with.

Both pretty devastating body punchers but think GGG will have the edge. Too big, strong and experienced. Walks him down and gets a KO around the 6th.

I think GGG will win by KO/TKO I went for the 4-6 option as it was better odds. Also have GGG to win, and win by stoppage. Basically I’ve gone all in on GGG 😀

when's it on Youtube

Guess I need to put some money on Alvarez then*!
I still see the Brook fight as evidence of how easy GGG is to hit by someone with the skills. He was more troubled by Kell than he let on.

*nah, I don't do betting

[quote=patriotpro ]when's it on Youtube

it'll be on allthebestfights.com pretty much straight away

GGG is the bookies favourite, but has looked a bit more mortal in recent fights.. he's easier to hit than Canelo IMO, if Kell hit harder (and was a bit bigger) then he'd have had a decent chance.

Tough to call, but due to age/slight weight advantage/slightly harder to hit, I'm going for late Canelo stoppage..

Hopefully a close fight, and the start of a trilogy though 🙂

In his recent fights, GGG simply hasn't cared about being hit. He'll walk through anything.

GGG hits hard even for a middleweight(apparently)I think he will get the better of Canelo by 8, earlier is he tries to walk GGG down. Both of them to be pissing blood though!

Interesting first post linking to streaming info for the fight. Hmm.
There is a Mayweather vid down the bottom if anyone's interested (I'm not). (Even if he is right 🙂 )

Didn't cotto's brother wobble alvarez, or did I imagine that?

GGG got hit by Kel as he didn't respect his power..see lemiux for how this will more likely go

If Alvarez can't put away a shop worn never was who was severely weigh drained (chavez) then he isn't stopping Golovkin

I'm going for a late GGG stoppage whilst behind on points. If it goes to cards expect a robbery.

[i]GGG got hit by Kel as he didn't respect his power..see lemiux for how this will more likely go[/i]

No way! GGG got hit by Kell cos he couldn't see the combos! And Lemieux ain't no Canelo. Although his knockout of Curtis Stevens was brutal.

Shiitt, wish I wasn't reffing in the morning, I wanna watch it live!

Go to bed early and get up at 3am. Do not miss it!

No way! GGG got hit by Kell cos he couldn't see the combos! And Lemieux ain't no Canelo

I'm not sure about that. He definitely didn't show much caution in his approach.

As for lemiux not being as good as canelo, I'd probably agree. But then again who has canelo beaten that's top drawer? A faded cotto .. Not much else

Of course the same could be said for ggg. Both are highly rated, and I see why, but I have doubts over both. Ggg has never fought anyone who is top top class, and when alvarez did he got schooled. Jury is out on both Imo.

For that reason I'm leaning heavily towards ggg, he's bigger, hits harder and can also box. He'll also be hugely motivated given his legacy is on the line, he has much more to lose than alvarez.

Either way it's great that we are getting a match up like this, a genuinely competitive bout between 2 pfp fighters. I'm convinced this won't turn into the damp squid that usual big fights on ppv do.

On a side note.. Biggest fight in years Imo, and compared to the sham of a few weeks ago it's barely been mentioned outside boxing fan circles.. Criminal.

See also Ward vs Kovalev.

Good point.. Forgot about those fights..

That said ward still managed to to turn both into not very exciting affairs.. He's just dull dull dull..

And also a bit cheaty. Definitely looking forward to this one alot more.

Great fight and very hard to call with it being easy to make a good case for both fighters

Whatever happens its a proper boxing match

GGG just

I'm interested in watching billy joe saunders fight the same night aswell(maybe because I can actually watch it without paying:),be interesting to see how he performs after not fighting for what seems like forever,against a decent opponent too.

Tough one to call really; lots of ifs & buts about both their last opponents.

I will put my neck out and go for a 6th rnd KO for GGG. Canelo has enjoyed a sizeable weight advantage over most of his opponents, and he isn't a huge puncher (don't tell Amir Khan) but a superb counter puncher.

GGG KO's Canelo after being behind on all score cards.

Unsure on this, Alvarez and De La Hoya must have seen something to take this fight now after avoiding it previously. For this reason I want Golovkin to win.

I don't think Golovkin can get a decision and he knows that so he looks for the KO, and maybe tires? so Alvarez on points for me

Rigodeaux Vs Lomachenko has been agreed which has come too late for Rigo and just looks like a payday for him. he's been reluctant to move up in the past but suddenly jumps two divisions to fight someone equally skilled, more offensive, younger and larger. Only one outcome unfortunately

De La Hoya must have seen something

DLH is off his box these days with some of his predictions

I dont really think ODLH has seen anything in GGG that he thinks Canelo can exploit - I think its a case of taking the big money now before it disappears. GGG is the biggest money spinner out there for Canelo. GGG seems to be showing signs of aging and Canelo doesnt look to be getting any better; if either one of them loses, then there really isn`t anybody out there who will generate as big a pay day.

Some decent action on ITV4 too! Callum Smith headlining.

Good big man beats the good small man always. GGG by TKO.

Bit surprised to hear Canelo gets the bigger purse.

Good big man beats the good small man always. GGG by TKO.

Trying to think of examples when that hasn't been the case..And I can't think of any!

Plenty of examples of a better small fighter taking on a bigger man and winning, but when they are so evenly matched skills wise I think you've just swayed me more towards GGG. You could argue manny vs cotto, or ward vs kovalev, but in both those examples i'd say that skills wise both manny and ward were at a significant advantage.

Previous examples of great fighters moving up to fight other great fighters doesn't usually end well, i'm thinking trinidad and delahoya. Futher back duran vs hearns, and hearns vs hagler...big guy always wins.

Awaits someone pointing out that the much smaller mayweather beat that boxing genius mcgregor only the other week...;-)

Ray Leonard beat Hagler
Mayweathet beat dela hoya

Ray Leonard beat Hagler
Mayweathet beat dela hoya

They did, and good examples..

But I'd argue that both the former are in my top 20 pfp of all time, where as hagler and dela hoya, whilst great fighters, weren't quite at that level.

That said, possibly more than a hint of hindsight there, leonard's standing benefits hugely because of that win.

I still think Hagler won that fight.

Hagler 'not at that level'? Surely you jest?

Hagler was phenomenal, make no mistake. I can see why you take issue with my comment!

I don't think he rates as high as leonard p4p however. Leonard for me is top 10 of all time. hagler is top 30. Which is still pretty damn good, and I'll admit that saying 'not at that level' does him an injustice.

He was right at the top of the game though, top 3 middleweight of all time no doubt.

Spoilers below
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And they said Mayweather v McGregor made a mockery of boxing. Can’t believe 1 judge could score it 10 rounds to 2 for Canelo.
Saw again tonight that GGG is terminator 2

That is a strange score card, a lot of people very unhappy.

I’d like to say it’s unbelievable but it’s not. Seems that any time a big fight goes the distance we get these ridiculous decisions. If it was a round or 2 in Canelo’s favour then maybe just maybe I could buy that but 10 - 2. Shocking.
Even the Mexicans were booing.

Boxing has a habit of shooting itself in the foot at the worse time ... so close after the Mayweather v mcGregor farce makes it just look like a circus.

tpbiker - Member

I don't think he (Hagler) rates as high as leonard p4p however. Leonard for me is top 10 of all time. hagler is top 30.

He (Hagler) was right at the top of the game though, top 3 middleweight of all time no doubt.

What middleweights would you rate higher than Hagler then? And who is in your P4P top 10 of all time? Bit strange having Hagler 3rd best middle - but only just making the top 30 all time.

Good fight, but not a great one. I had GGG winning by 2 points, but did score 4 rounds even, couldve been scored either way, obviously.
But GGG won it on stamina, work rate and a solid chin. Wasn't too big or too powerful for Canelo, which must've surprised a few 🙂

When the hell are they going to sack incompetent judges!

ps. Leonard Hagler is irrelevant- people may have [i]thought[/i] Hagler won, but he didn't. Check boxrec.com for full details.

I had Golovkin by four. Could have stomached a draw, if you like the counter punching style over the aggressor, but no way did Canelo win it.

The judge that scored Canelo winning by a country mile ought to be taken to task over that.

Good fight, but not a great one. I had GGG winning by 2 points, but did score 4 rounds even, couldve been scored either way, obviously.
But GGG won it on stamina, work rate and a solid chin. Wasn't too big or too powerful for Canelo, which must've surprised a few

. Er no he didn't check boxrec.com for full details .

 

After a Canelo rematch, I'd like to see ggg move up and try it in the super middleweight division. Looking at them I'd say canelo is more of a light middleweight, who is fighting at the higher middleweight.

ggg v degale would be a good fight.

Looking at ggg though I'm not sure he is big enough to go up a weight, and unfortunately there are no hearns, hopking etc in this current middleweight division for legacy fights.

I gave 4-5 rounds to Alvarez. Byrd's card was a disgrace.

Unfortunately there are no super fights at super middle for GGG or Canelo ... the supermiddles are doing another Super6 tournament to try and gather interest.

Light Heavy is where its at at moment ... but neither guy would be big enough; not even a super-roided Canelo could juice that high.

i though this was apt photo posted up on twitter of one of the judges leaving the arena
[img] [/img]

absolutely ridiculous. Was very impressed with GGG , the fights reminded me of ward / kovalev. Keep in mind these guys blasted Khan and Brook inside the distance. Granted they might have been a bit more respectful of each other and brook / khan were blown up

Did Canelo stay below the 170lb limit ?? He looked massive at the start of the fight compared to GGG.

Watching it again now. GGG clearly won this by 8 rounds. He spent most of time stalking Canelo, resisting the he counter punching with ease.
That judge has form.

I love watching GGG he just stalks his opponents and doesn’t care if he gets hit cos he can take it. Was a bit disappointed with Canelo. Didn’t think he did enough counter attacking that I was hoping to see other than 1st couple of rounds and maybe the last couple when he looked as if he’d realised the only way he was going to win was to KO him. When he did hit GGG he just shrugged it off.
We need someone that’s going to go head to head with GGG. That would be an awesome fight but is there anyone out there brave/good enough?

GGG controlled the ring much better, but was vulnerable to Canelo's uppercut early on. Defended better as the fight went on but could have worked the body a bit more. I think they both got what they wanted (making bank on the rematch).

Draw's not a bad result, but I'd say GGG imposed his will better in this bout and should dominate in the rematch. Can't wait for it! Impressed with Canelo. I didn't rate him much going into this. Everyone knows about GGG's iron chin, but Canelo can sure take a punch too.

Some great fighters out there right now who actually want to fight instead of chat shit (Floyd arguably for not fighting Manny until it was way past its sell by date). Lomachenko, GGG, Usyk. Future's looking good!

If it goes to cards expect a robbery.

I'd feel slightly smug, but:

A - I think everyone knew this would be the case

B- I'm actually feeling slightly depressed by the whole thing.

What middleweights would you rate higher than Hagler then? And who is in your P4P top 10 of all time? Bit strange having Hagler 3rd best middle - but only just making the top 30 all time.

SRR and Monzon would be one and two.

I don't think I'd need to think hard to find another 18 boxers better than him, so he doesn't make my top 20, but top 30 yes.

Top 10 in no particular order would be something like..

Sugar Ray robinson
Ali
Duran
Greb
Sugar ray Leonard
Armstrong
Monzon
Fitzsimmons
Chavez
Louis

Guessing Tyson doesn't make it becuse of his post prison sans Cus D'amato record 🙁

Guessing Tyson doesn't make it becuse of his post prison sans Cus D'amato record

You think Tyson makes a top ten all time p4p list??

I could only pick a list of my favourite fighters, not a pound 4 pound list, cos this would just have to be based on their records, as, for example, I've only seen 1 Monzon fight; Greb fights are poor quality film and same for Fitzsimmons - very limited viewing opportunities. And if you go by records, then surely Mayweather and Marciano have to be in there...

@Ramsey Neil - fab contribution, cheers.

I guess most purists would not agree then. Pound for pound lists are as subjective as favourite fighter lists.

But few fighters I've seen evoke the excitement Tyson did when he burst onto the scene. Plus like the above poster said, if it's records only, then you can't not have Mayweather in there.

And if it's records as well, then Ali had some shocking losses. So yeah, discount Tyson's "problems" and he's in there. In fact, hasn't Ali said he considers Tyson one of the greatest heavyweights?

Agree its subjective. I'd have Floyd about 15th

I based my list on what I know about the sport, opinions of others, and records. If you just discounted all the guys you haven't seen colour footage of on YouTube then it's not an all-time list, and would look very very different.

Bit unfair on Floyd. Boxing is supposed to be about hitting and not getting hit and he's got the latter down better than anyone surely? Plus before his hands gave out, he was a pretty exciting fighter to watch and even afterwards he figured out how to win convincingly which shows his intellect and adaptability. Like Ali later in his career.

And Tyson, anyone else in your list with 44 KOs? Genuine question from me.

In the age of professionalism would all time lists still be relevant? I guess in boxing it would because it throws up more rags to riches stories than other sports because of the nature of it.

Still, to get this back on track. When's the rematch? Folk are saying rematch posters were on sale literally right after the decision was announced!

So yeah, discount Tyson's "problems" and he's in there

Really?? Genuine question, who did he beat in his 'prime'.

And if it's records as well, then Ali had some shocking losses

Difference is that ali's shocking losses came when he was shot to pieces after a glorious career

Edit - I don't think putting Floyd as a top 15 fighter could be considered unfair.. Not many lists would have him so high.

Still, to get this back on track. When's the rematch? Folk are saying rematch posters were on sale literally right after the decision was announced!

I kinda hope ggg tells them to do one.

Strange about a rematch - can't get excited about the prospect, now we know how they kind of cancel each other out.. If Alvarez had a capability to work every round like he did the first minute of the 10th, he could do it. Don't think he has the stamina though.
Would we see a Ward-Kovalev II.. I don't think so.

At least this is a rematch people want to see, so I hope it happens!

It's all subjective but I would have Tyson at the very top of the list . I have never seen a boxer who's opponents were visibly scared of him . And to those who say who did he fight who was in his prime I would say who did he avoid? Sure it went tits up towards the end but so did a lot of boxers careers but in his prime nobody could live with him .

It's all subjective but I would have Tyson at the very top of the list

😆

tpbiker - Member
If it goes to cards expect a robbery.
I'd feel slightly smug, but:

A - I think everyone knew this would be the case

B- I'm actually feeling slightly depressed by the whole thing.

What middleweights would you rate higher than Hagler then? And who is in your P4P top 10 of all time? Bit strange having Hagler 3rd best middle - but only just making the top 30 all time.
SRR and Monzon would be one and two.

I don't think I'd need to think hard to find another 18 boxers better than him, so he doesn't make my top 20, but top 30 yes.

Top 10 in no particular order would be something like..

Sugar Ray robinson
Ali
Duran
Greb
Sugar ray Leonard
Armstrong
Monzon
Fitzsimmons
Chavez
Louis

You do realise that Ray Robinson lost the middleweight title quite a few times? and Greb was a middleweight too ... so how come he makes the all time P4P top 10 ... but outside the top 3 in middleweight??

Did anyone watch the undercard fights of the Billy Joe Saunders fight?
The young heavyweight Dubois? looks a great prospect. That last punch 😯 glad AJ Carter was ok.

DezB - Member
Greb fights are poor quality film and same for Fitzsimmons - very limited viewing opportunities. And if you go by records, then surely Mayweather and Marciano have to be in there...

Actually there is no fight film of Greb.

If old time boxing reports are to be believed - Ezzard Charles should be regarded as one of the best ever middleweights, unfortunately like a lot of black fighters back then he never got the title fights he should have, and had to go all the way to heavyweight for opportunities.

You do realise that Ray Robinson lost the middleweight title quite a few times? and Greb was a middleweight too ... so how come he makes the all time P4P top 10 ... but outside the top 3 in middleweight??

I thought Greb was a light heavy, but a google tells me I'm wrong.

As for Robinson, yes I know he was a great middleweight, but I feel his better work was at welter. he was 120 -1 or something ridiculous. So overall better than hagler, but perhaps not at middleweight (IMO)

Sure it went tits up towards the end but so did a lot of boxers careers but in his prime nobody could live with him

towards the end is being a bit generous

Kind of went tits up before he was sent to jail.

Ok until Buster Douglas proved he was beatable he was certainly a formidable fighter . And from all accounts he hadn't trained or lived anything like properly before that fight and still would have knocked Buster Douglas out but for a very slow count from the referee . If you are looking for the best Queensbery Rules type of boxer then it certainly wasn't Mike Tyson but I still stand by my opinion of him because he was head and shoulders above the standard of other heavyweights of his generation .

he was head and shoulders above the standard of other heavyweights of his generation

Hardly praise. The 80s heavyweight scene was abysmal.

"Peak" Tyson's best wins were a retired Holmes who openly admits he only took the fight because they were paying him $10 million, and a petrified Spinks in possibly the worst performance I've ever seen in a title fight.

I have a Tyson box set in front of me right now with every one of his fights. The guys he was knocking out for fun were absolute bums.

There's no doubt he was ferocious but he's not even in the top 10 heavyweights of all time never mind the best pound for pound boxer of all time

I think the thing with Tyson was that he was very different and so aggressive and he came along at a time when the heavyweight division was crying out for a star. He was certainly one of the most exciting boxers to watch.

Tyson practically trained himself once he left Kevin Rooney - he gradually went down hill from there on; but I'd still rate Tyson as the best heavyweight ever on his day ... maybe that's just because he was the dominant heavyweight as I was growing up; similar to how the older boxing fans still insist on Ali ... and before them Louis. Maybe in 20 yrs time people will be arguing the case for Joshua

[i]Actually there is no fight film of Greb.[/i]
Makes it even harder to list him!

Tyson beat Berick and Holmes who both beat Ali.. 😉

Holmes was out of the ring 2 years and 38 when he lost to Tyson. Holmes fought Ali when Ali was 38 and pre fight medicals said Ali should not be given a license due to speech slurring and numbness and tingling in his hands.
Can't recall much about Ali v Berbick other than it was his last fight, Ali that is, so would have been days shy of 40th birthday.
There is no comparisons to be made.

I agree that Holmes certainly was well past his best when he fought Tyson . Michael Spinks not so but as has been said he went into the ring terrified of Tyson and that kind of fear is something no other world champion has ever put into his opponents . The rest of the heavyweight division wasn't poor it was just that Tyson was way above their level and at the end of the day you can only fight what is the best fighters available as opponents . Or do people think that you need a career defining fight like Ali Frazier , or Leonard Hearns ?

DezB - Member
Actually there is no fight film of Greb.
Makes it even harder to list him!

Harry Greb almost always makes it into the best middleweight ever lists - which considering there is no actual fight footage of him is a bit silly. His win over a young Gene Tunney, and numerous fights with the most avoided black fighters of the day are the reasons why.

Boxing myths get handed down through generations. Some people repeat them - and they get taken for givens by others. The biggest example is the Ali myth ... a myth so well established that even his opponents are given legendary status/prowess; but look at old fight footage and you`ll see that most of the best names were pretty average at best ... certainly as bad as some of the opponents they dismiss of Tysons.

Got to give Ali respect for beating Sonny Liston twice who seemed pretty formidable and George Foreman who had previously destroyed Joe Frazier .