[Closed] Going pescatarian - downsides?

Just go full veggie. I did 3 years ago and now the thought of eating meat/fish and the smell of it cooking genuinely turns my stomach (which surprised me the first time it happened!)

Been doing something similar since November last year.
Just tried to cut out meat in general.
Although if going out or having a take away we have eaten meat.
Wasn't really a big fish eater before and haven't upped my consumption.
I'm interested to see what supplements are recommended!

You won’t need any supplements.

Healthier eating? There are plenty of healthy meat options.
Cutting out dairy, which most vegetarians don’t do, is likely to result in a healthier diet that is better for the environment.

Bacon.

It's okay to eat fish
Cause they don't have any feelings

Kurt Cobain

There wont be any health benefits if you don't ensure you balance out the essential vitamins and proteins that you will be missing. So you need to take some proper dietary advice and stick to it.

We've reduced our meat intake - prompted by 2 daughters deciding to go vegan, and it's easier to make the same meals for everyone.

I'd recommend the BOSH cook books - there is some nice food in there

Bacon was what I thought to be the one thing stopping me going full vegan, but after realising I liked the smell of it more than the actual taste, it literally always dissapointed me, steak too, no matter what the cut, what sauce it was with, always a dissapointment, not filling just bleh and it was always medium rare before anyone says it wasnt cooked right. Making the switch was super easy, as well as being lactose intolerant which cuts out 99% of diary anyway.

My mum has gone pescetarian and is enjoying food and cooking again and is feeling healthier

My wife had us doing veganuary. I have been a prolific meat eater in the past, and a lot of booze to boot. After boozing and eating my way through two lockdowns and one heavy Christmas I have actually enjoyed and not missed meat as much as I thought I would. She has gone full vegan, I have gone Pesci, with a couple of smoked salmon fillets/ tuna Mayo days.

As the previous poster said, cutting out dairy makes a huge difference. I am amazed at the side effects, coupled with lack of animal products/ booze.

I was 87 kilos at the start of the month, Today’s post Zwift weigh in was 78. Feel healthier and fitter.

I will start eating a bit of meat when the need grips me in feb, but I’m very much going to be mainly plant based with an occasional treat in future.

My top tip would be to try it for a month and see how your fare.

Bacon was what I thought to be the one thing stopping me going full vegan, but after realising I liked the smell of it more than the actual taste, it literally always dissapointed me

Agreed. It's similar to walking past a Chinese takeaway, never tastes as good as it smells.

Not a veggie, but don't eat much meat these days, just enjoy it when I do. We've a local fishmonger that comes from fife every week, and a prawn boat that now sells straight off the boat since the arse fell out the restaurant market, both cheaper than supermarkets and miles better, have a look around your local area.

My old man has been pescatarian for the past 30 years or so, never taken any supplements and it's done him no harm.

We’ve a local fishmonger that comes from fife every week

That'll be pittenweem eh

have a look around your local area.

Unfortunately my local area is almost as far from the sea as you can get in the UK.... Bedfordshire and Milton Keynes are not known for their fishing industry.

I initially went pesci in early 2019,mainly for environmental reasons, then realised that most farmed fish that you buy (no local fish monger anywhere near us) is worse than a lot of meat from an environmental perspective. Been veggie since August 2019. Don't really miss meat that much, and never got the 'but bacon' comments even when I was a meat eater....bacon is ****ing horrible!

I may or may not treat myself to some fresh mackerel in Cornwall this summer.

I used to be full on carnivore, meat with every meal, mmmm bacon, etc. Went to a health farm for a few days with Mrs Kilo two years or so ago, not my idea at all but anything for a quiet life, haven’t had meat since and the thought of it is not pleasant. Pescatarian is easy, I’m not a massive vegetable fan and salads largely suck but I still get by fine. Not sure I could drop fish from my diet, probably helps that I’ve got no deeper philosophical reason for not eating meat, although cows are one of my favourite animals.

The top tip I got, from here, Cauldron sausages, they’re better than a lot of normal sausages I’ve bought over the years

I've been doing veganuary as well - the main thing I'm missing isn't the food as such, it's just the freedom to eat whatever I want. I'm the only one in the house that's trying it so it's been difficult when I'm in the mood for a snack and there's nothing but fruit and veg and then a load of milk chocolate and crisps etc that I can't eat!
There's loads of naturally vegan/vegan alternative snacks and meals in the shops now though so a bit of forward planning and well stocked cupboards has seen me through the month!

I feel like a flexible diet, where you actively limit your meat and dairy intake and allow yourself the odd treat/slip up (in the same way that a weight loss diet would allow an occasional dessert or cheat meal), is far easier from an enjoyment and willpower perspective rather than labelling yourself as a 100% strict vegi/vegan/pesci. It's not great from an ethical and animal welfare point of view but it's a reduction at least and it still brings most of the benefits from the health and environment side of things too

That’ll be pittenweem eh

Aye, he's from Ainster, cracking guy. I've seen him during the first lockdown still delivering a single bit of haddock to a pensioner at 10pm, and still a 2+hr drive to get home, so I like to support him.

Cutting out dairy, which most vegetarians don’t do,

because: Cheese

honestly, if cheese hadn’t been invented I would be sooo much more healthy, but y’know, **** it

Fish makes my pee stink of.. fish :'(

Shell fish seems fine, but any white fish, yuck.

Ironically I live in Shetland with the main industry being sea food (more so than oil and gas in terms of income generated), but there's not many outlets for fresh local fish and what is stocked is limited as it all goes straight sooth and abroad to market.

Our line grown Mussels are supposed to be the most ethical and 'green' meat there is and high in protein.

Did it for about 10 years, no downsides apart from people wanting to talk about ****ing bacon.

I went pescatarian in the very early 80's, it was much tougher then as your only option in most pubs/restaurants was vegetable lasagne. I don't take any particular supplements but just try and eat a sensible balance - nuts/fruit etc. Just give a bit of thought as to where your protein is coming from.
As for fitness well I've played sport at a reasonable level for all that time and still cycle so I'd say it makes no difference.
And roughly every couple of months I do have a bacon sandwich - don't beat yourself up over the occasional thing like that.

It’s okay to eat fish
Cause they don’t have any feelings

Sadly Kurt, they do.

Its an interesting one to me

There are serious ethical considerations to consider. Farmed fish can be very polluting and cause issues for wild fish populations. wild caught fish can be unsustainably fished. Is farmed salmon ethically better than eating wild deer?

Health point of view? eating meet is non essential and you do not need to do anything special. Indeed a fish based diet can be better as you get more vit D and less saturated fats

For me I like a plant based diet with fish or free range meat as a treat rather than as a staple. I do not always live up to that tho. When i do have farmed fish I do try to make sure its high quality stuff and locally produced but again often fall short.

Sadly we farm fish and that has very bad environmental impacts.
We catch wild fish with no regard to the environment or fish stocks.

Mostly as no one can see the fish or sea bed, so its easy to ignore the consequences. Also no one polices international waters, so its a free for all.

To protect the environment just stop having kids, that's easier than cutting out food.

To protect the environment just stop having kids, that’s easier than cutting out food.

I have one and she is more than enough so won't be having any more sprogs. Does that mean I've done my bit for the environment and helping to stop overpopulation?

My daughter decided to try a pescatarian diet before Christmas so we now eat more fish (we normally have fresh fish twice a week as a family now) and our food bill has gone up considerably - for example, at Tesco fresh chicken fillets are around £5 per kg, fresh haddock and salmon are both around £13 per kg and fresh tuna is about £28 per kg (which is around the same as fillet steak).

For me I like a plant based diet with fish or free range meat as a treat rather than as a staple. I do not always live up to that tho. When i do have farmed fish I do try to make sure its high quality stuff and locally produced but again often fall short.

This is pretty much where we've settled now too, and it's a decent balance I think. We've managed to cut out milk (shout out to Aldi's fortified oat drink!) but you'll have to pry cheese out of my cold, dead hands I'm afraid. There's a balance to be struck between doing the right thing and buying super-processed junk alternatives.

Our household has two vegans and two omnivores, of which I am one. I can't eat fish (allergy) and the other omnivore doesn't eat fish. I've significantly reduced my meat consumption, going instead for quality rather than quantity. I suspect that for 3 days out of 7, I eat no meat. Going vegan and I would miss eggs, cheese and milk in my tea.

Downsides- There can be very significant environmental impact.
Many fish stocks have been taken far past the point where they are sustainable, including lots of UK fisheries.
Lots of seafood in supermarkets has been airfreighted, may have also come from unsustainable or damaging production or sources.
Farmed wet fish means industrial farming/catching of the protein to feed those fish.

Pluses- buy local on a short supply chain wherever possible. There are sustainable sources and species, just a bit harder to find; think about what you're buying.
I love most seafood; in fact, appropriately, I've just received a parcelforce delivery this morning from 'The Oyster Shed' on Skye. Scallops, langoustines, crab, salmon, oysters, venison. yum... Guess what's for tea tonight!!

Fried onion rings?

Yeah please don't go pescatarian for environmental reasons. The seas are getting devastated through overfishing and trawling and fish farms, not to mention ocean acidification from climate change. It's unlikely to recover in the next 100 years, if EVER.

The downside for me would be having to eat fish, I just don't see the appeal, it all tastes so 'fishy'. Never liked it. I can cook a mean seared tuna steak with miso for my wife on the BBQ though, so it's not as if I haven't tried it. Consistency, fishyness, potential for bones, the smell ugh, the smell (I know raw meat doesn't often smell great either).

For those that do enjoy it, good on you, but yeah, ethically seafood and meat and dairy all have their flaws, but unless you eat locally grown sustainably sourced everything there are always going to be compromises.

I must admit the smell can be a bit much at times - a Sunday favourite at our house is hot-stone cooked salmon (ie, cooked on a super-heated lavastone at the table) so the room gets a bit smokey/smelly and the fish isn't being cooked under the cooker hood either. Monday morning smells in the kitchen are pretty revolting sometimes.

I would miss eggs, cheese and milk in my tea

That's not tea, that's soup.

Update: unpacked the box and thank you guys, you have thoroughly impressed me with the quantities and particularly the quality of the content. Recommended.

I've had a 28 year internal monologue about this.

Went pesci at university. An infrequent fish added to a mostly veggie diet. That decision was for lots of reasons but mainly about wanting to eat quality food on a limited budget.

Over the years I've been veggie, pesci, back to omni and now vegan. The last couple of years as a vegan have been the least conflicted for me. I felt a hypocrite not eating land animals for ethical and environment reasons but then still eating dairy and fish. Of course it would still be very easy to pick holes in me - probably too many frozen processed LM sausages, I am not religiously avoiding all palm oil, and some of my food travels too far to my plate.

I'm also very aware that plant based and animal based farming are too interwoven to avoid the by-product of one to the benefit of the other. My food needs 'farmed' bees to pollinate so why avoid honey? All that natural organic manure used to fertilize the crop fields is coming from dairy farms. It is a product of the dairy industry as much as the milk (sort of) so why am I ok with this? The corn I eat is only the price it is because the straw by-product goes back into dairy farming etc etc. I've not resolved that internal monologue yet but I'm much closer.

That's a lengthy way of saying you need to take time to work out your reasons for your food choices and abstentions that make long term sense for you because you will find them regularly questioned by both others and more importantly yourself.

https://thegoodplace.fandom.com/wiki/Doug_Forcett

It's a tricky balance to strike, isn't it?

@highlandman You should ask for a commission as I’ve just ordered their crab box.

As with the consensus I just went veggie.

The "science" (propaganda on both sides) is highly polarised but I just reached the conclusion that there really wasnt a good reason for eating meat that outweighed the ethical, environmental and health downsides. After a wierd couple of months where muscle and strength seemed to just fall off, it seems to have levelled off and gone back to normal. It's been a wierd year for exercise/training so way too many variables to really say anything.

Made a concious decision not to go Vegan. I grew up on farms and have no qualms about the welfare of free range chickens or dairy heards. I've been trying various alternatives but only really to see what they're like (almond milk ice cream is nice, but makes every flavour taste of peanut butter).

I'm always intrigued at people stating health benefits as a reason for dropping meat and going vege. I completely understand the ethical argument, but the health one I don't.
In my head it's perfectly possible to eat healthy food that's meat based and unhealthy food that's veg based. Bad food is bad food, whether it's a heavily processed beef burger or a heavily processed bean burger.
Am I missing something?

Fried onion rings?

You'll have to wait and see

I’m always intrigued at people stating health benefits as a reason for dropping meat and going vege. I completely understand the ethical argument, but the health one I don’t.
In my head it’s perfectly possible to eat healthy food that’s meat based and unhealthy food that’s veg based. Bad food is bad food, whether it’s a heavily processed beef burger or a heavily processed bean burger.
Am I missing something?

Whilst I broadly see your point I think you have to factor in finance too. The cost of moving to the healthiest non processed cuts of meat is more than a super healthy nutritious plant based diet. So unless your budget is bottomless a healthy and varied meat free diet is easier to achieve. I think some also go on about reducing saturated fats but not all meat (esp if you include fish as a meat) has this in abundance and you can also still eat it in modest proportions if that's your thing so not that convinced about that angle. Meat is also relatively calorie dense so if eating a finite amount of calories daily it leaves more 'room' for vitamin and mineral rich veggies and pulses.

The biggest health benefit for me of going vegan was to save me from myself - it cut cheese out of my diet in one fell swoop. I could of course have eaten in moderation but I don't appear to be wired that way. A blanket 'not, that's not for you' worked best. It removed the blocker needed to shift the weight I had to shed.

I've been sort of turning pescitarian by accident since being put on long term low dose methotrexate for RA.

The nausea created by the MTX for a day or so each week really puts me off most meats, then a bit like if you get food poisoning from a certain food you dont really want it for a while, I'm stuck in a permanent cycle of being reminded that meat makes me feel sick when I take my meds every 7 days. Additionally I read that oils in fish are supposed to be good for my joints and the RA and I've ended up in a situation where I've gone from having meat everyday maybe 2 or 3 times, to having meat maybe 3 times a week, and eating loads of different fish in its more natural, none finger form.

It's definitely a more expensive way to live than eating meat, and I've realised how bad quality some of the fish I would have eaten previously was, as someone says above about it tasting fishy.

I feel like it's probably a healthier option than eating meat, it definitely feels lighter, but it's hard to tell with all the other variables going on around the meds etc

Plenty of downsides if you're a fish.

Eating fish is not good for the environment. I think people tend to think that it is because the damage is mostly out of sight and therefore out of mind. Fishing does huge damage to the ocean ecosystems which are absolutely essential to our continued survival as a species. Please don't encourage it.

I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years, so it always amuses me when people say that you will need to take loads of supplements if you go veggie. It's nonsense. Eat a balanced veggie diet and you'll be fine - try and survive on cheese sandwiches and you might have a problem.

Whilst I broadly see your point I think you have to factor in finance too.

Would be interesting if there was a comparison of nutrition v cost for different options.

Can't be much that has more nutrient per £££ than a can of sardines at 33p.

Fresh liver would be up there too.

Obviously it depends on your reasonings, but something perhaps to consider is that you don't have to "become" anything, you could just eat less of something or more of something else. People seem to tend towards rules and labels but I've never seen the point, if you want to eat a raw food diet for six days a week and then have a Sunday carvery blow-out then fill your boots.

Did it for about 10 years, no downsides apart from people wanting to talk about **** bacon.

Five posts in, this time. Being somethingtarian used to be a lot more difficult due to a lack of viable choice and options, but the only real downside I find these days is everyone else whining at you about it.

The top tip I got, from here, Cauldron sausages

That was likely to have been me, I'm quite a fan.

The 'real' meaty options have gone mainstream now too, things like Beyond Burger and Impossible Burger. I'm not entirely sure that it appeals to me but might be a positive step for people who are currently big meat-eaters and want a near like-for-like alternative.

For me (OP) I think some of it is going to be partly psychological. If I have steak or a burger I immediately think to pair it with chips. If I have bolognese then I am heavy on the sauce, rather than coating the pasta with it I dollop loads on top. If I have fresh fish I tend to think more along the lines of vegetables, fresh new potatoes, salad or maybe rice and beans. It will make me steer more towards a balanced healthier diet instead of the lazy shopping/cooking option

Makes sense, if it works for you then it works. Breaking habits is hard. I guess it's not dissimilar to quitting smoking or drinking, if you've done something for years then suddenly not doing it is tough.

In your case I'd suggest (in a blasé easier-to-say-than-do fashion) "don't do that then". Swap your steak and chips for steak and oven chips or potato wedges. Chuck a couple of diced peppers or other veg in your bolognaise to bulk it out, make the sauce from scratch with tinned toms / passata rather than sauce jars laden with sugar and salt. If you can open a jar, chuck in some herbs and warm it through, you can do exactly the same with a couple of cans of tomatoes. It takes a bit longer for the tomatoes to break down but it's no extra work, if you're time-poor then batch cook and start filling the freezer with individual portions in ziploc bags.

Stopped eating meat over a year ago now which is unusual for a shooter / deer stalker. But I have no regrets.
Have had 3 blood tests done and all is bang on, and I do not use any supplements.

Green veg will benefit you more than vitamin pills.

Am very partial to the veggie fry up pack in Morrisons just now, plant sliced sausage ! who'da thunk it ?

From a little while ago, if you need inspiration.

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/favourite-vegetarian-recipes/

If I have bolognese then I am heavy on the sauce, rather than coating the pasta with it I dollop loads on top

You might be doing it right already, maybe just need to adjust the sauce ingredients.

Chuck a couple of diced peppers or other veg in your bolognaise to bulk it out, make the sauce from scratch with tinned toms / passata rather than sauce jars laden with sugar and salt. If you can open a jar, chuck in some herbs and warm it through, you can do exactly the same with a couple of cans of tomatoes.

Very much this. When I was uber calorie counting (fast 800) and using myfitnesspal a lot it was very educational to discover quite how calorific the pasta on the plate was in comparison to the sauce - with minimal else going for it in terms of vitamins and minerals. Clearly it depends what is in the sauce (always homemade here - veggie mince when being fast and lazy, buzzed up mushrooms, celery and carrots with maybe some green lentils otherwise) but now our spag bol is very heavy on the sauce with the minimum of pasta. Less calories, more V&M, more taste.

Why the need to be so absolute? I understand if it’s for ideological reasons but if not just cut back and enjoy on special occasions or simply less often.

Meat can definitely form a key part of a healthy balanced diet.

Replacing high quality meat with highly processed vegan substitutes does not make sense to me (from a nutritional point of view - I do understand that some people simply don’t want to eat animals)

Am I missing something?

You’re right to note that a bad diet is a bad diet. As for one type of ‘bad diet’ vs the other ‘bad diet’?

A good method I found is to undertake research as if arguing for one vs the other and vice versa. ie make the best case you can for eating an unhealthy plant-based diet vs an unhealthy animal-based diet, factoring in cholesterol, gut flora, carcinogens, bacteria, acid, inflammation, etc.

I’ve found that cooking a plant-based menu has opened up a more balanced and varied diet. Other’s mmv. But if instead I ate a fast food diet of a load of vegan Whoppers vs regular Whoppers, or vegan falalafelafela frozen pizza vs meat feast cheesy mountain pizzas I think I’d still be marginally less unhealthy.

She explained her reasons well and got me thinking “I could/should do the same”. I love seafood, am happy to go from steak and chips to tuna, baby potatoes and salad. Yes I’ll miss real bacon and fillet steak, but not so much that I’ll be put off the healthier eating and environmental benefits (however small).

Wondering what benefit comes from attaching a label to your eating preferences? Does it set you up for failure, or to disappoint your child if you deviate from the defined rules? Would eating a bacon roll once a month or a steak twice a year be devastating for you or the planet? If it were me, and I was inclined to support my daughter I'd perhaps stop buying meat in the house (or even just being very selective what/where I bought it), but if I found myself in a small country pub faced with a choice between local wild venison, Viatnamese kings prawns or anything with courgette in it I'd be frustrated that I was eating the least environmentally palatable option because I'd attached a label to myself. [for the avoidance of doubt courgettes are probably the one vegetable that I will not eat]. It would also mean if in a month your daughter is fed up with pescetarian or a year she decides to go full veggie/vegan you aren't necessarily having to follow her footsteps.

Replacing high quality meat with highly processed vegan substitutes does not make sense to me

I can perhaps help you here, but I'll need you to elaborate on what does make sense to you:

1) What do you mean by "processed"?

2) Why is that bad?

3) Why doesn't it equally apply to pork sausages and beefburgers?

Because this really is the Mac vs PC argument again, you're not comparing like with like. One could equally "replace highly processed meat with high quality vegan substitutes".

Veganism is much more than a label/food choice. If the pub doesn’t offer vegan options the vegan won’t be tucking into a tuna steak ‘just this once’. I’m not vegan, but Mrs P is and I know how much she cares not to eat animal products. It’s some orders of magnitude different than my not caring to eat bacon because of my health/the planet’s health and my familial pork-lover’s medical histories.

The ‘vegan for the planet/climate’ trend OTOH is a (too?) latecomer to the table.

It’s different with diet choices and labels for reasons other than personal ethics/animal rights.

I tend to think that a ‘label’ such as ‘pescatarian’ is more often simply a personal reminder of a personal goal to eat more fish and veg in general in pursuit of bettering health? The health of the oceans and seas is not generally an ethical concern of a pescatarian and for good reason?

for the avoidance of doubt courgettes are probably the one vegetable that I will not eat

I know many meat-lovers who would refuse to eat approx 99% of all plant-based foods except for wheat, taters and baked beans. You’re doing pretty well!

Would you seek another drinking and eating establishment if they only served courgette-based dishes? 🤨

When I make bolognese the sauce is done from scratch with fresh peppers, celery and often lentils to replace part of the meat content so what I'm putting in it isn't the problem as such... it's more the volume of food. That isn't as much of an issue with any other meal, just bolognese.

If I had to only eat fish instead of meat, I could do it.....at a push! By why would I? I love a juicy steak, am also very partial to a succulent sausage and the thought of never eating Peking Duck with pancakes ever again fills me with utter horror.

OP I tend to eat 98% plant-based diet and 2% fish, most of which is ‘caught’ from the ‘end of shelf life’ shelf at 9pm kicking out time in the supermarket. I maybe kid myself that the 6 fresh sea bass fillets I bagged for £6 total would have gone to the skip had I not saved them, portioned them out then put in my freezer for the next month or so’s weekly fish suppers. They taste many times better than the crap white mush or tasteless chunks that our chip shops serve up. Would still prefer to catch and kill my own. I could also quit fish.

Currently working on a nori and tofu dish. A love of cooking is something that plant-based diet has rekindled in me in recent years. Horizons have broadened so much even with simple foods.

ie (Just one example of scores): It literally fascinates me to make a very simple and wholesome lentil and veg soup* that tastes so good that it delights me on the scale of mom’s chicken stews when I was a kid. Was raised to think that veg was a side-necessity/punishment and best boiled to death. Never in my young life did I think I’d be greedily licking a bowl clean of lentils and veg, or bean chilli, etc, not to the same degrees I used to for beef chilli or chicken stew. But here we are. It took some time to learn to cook (again).

*Learned by trial and error that it takes good quality produce/veg and just a touch of fresh herbs/ good seasoning. Old school. Cooking is like alchemy to my mind. IME it’s a shame for many reasons that our culture tumbled so fully into the chilled and frozen ready-made meals cul-de-sac? I look back on decades of it, speaking personally. Change is good, IME 🐝 🌱

Veganism is much more than a label/food choice.

This is true, but it's kind of an outlier. A vegan diet is merely one component of being Vegan, Veganism is a whole lifestyle choice rather than just a means labelling what someone eats. But one could, if one wanted, eat a vegan diet without being Vegan.

I know many meat-lovers who would refuse to eat approx 99% of all plant-based foods except for wheat, taters and baked beans. You’re doing pretty well!

I do find it odd, and slightly hypocritical even, that some meat-eaters will criticise non-meat-eaters for choosing a restricted diet and then eat a restricted one themselves. I know plenty of people who simply cannot countenance the idea of a meal that doesn't contain meat. It'd be like me sitting across from someone who was eating a pizza and berating them because they didn't have any chips. (This has actually happened to me: Out down South with work at a curry house, suddenly got "where's your meat?" from my then-boss, followed by the rest of the table variously either cross-examining me or telling me why I was wrong for the next half an hour. They're probably the same sorts of people who'd be back in work the next day complaining about preachy vegans.)

If I had to only eat fish instead of meat, I could do it…..at a push! By why would I? I love a juicy steak, am also very partial to a succulent sausage and the thought of never eating Peking Duck with pancakes ever again fills me with utter horror.

Do that then. Good for you. Isn't choice brilliant.

Cooking is like alchemy to my mind.

Where's that [Like] button?

I've said this for years, using exactly that word, though specifically in relation to making soup. You start with what is essentially a pan of wet veg, then an hour later it's like "where the hell did that suddenly come from?"

I did a stew last night, that was the same. It's really difficult to leave it alone at the start of cooking when it doesn't taste of much.

How's everyone else's bingo card going, by the way?

I have "bacon | processed | pretending to be meat | but why? | I couldn't do it" so far. I just need incisors, depth perception and leather shoes for a line.

Love Mackerel, and being on the South West Coast try to catch as much of it as I can .
Can't beat a bit of fresh fish . Must try a bit of home smoking when I get the time ( and more fish)

Agree with others you can simply say 'I'm going to eat less meat too, and we'll cook and eat the same evening meals together' with your daughter, so if one or the other of you chooses to change their diet going forward it's not a big deal.

For your daughter, being pescatarian first is a good approach and if she just east fish 2-3 times a week it becomes very easy to cut out all together if she wishes, or revert to a lower-quantity-better-quality/ethical meat a few times a week, depending on her reasoning.

As long as you have a varied diet there are no medical reasons to take supplements. Except Vitamin D which we should all be taking during the lockdowns according to the NHS. It is possible / plausible your daughter might want to increase iron intake (e.g. kale, spinach, okra; eat with vitamin c containing stuff like broccoli, spinach and tomatoes) when she starts having periods, but I don't think it's really an issue provided your diet is varied. I turned pescatarian at 11 and vegetarian at 13 and have never had any problems (now 40) even though my diet was atrocious in my teenage years - very fussy and just not very hungry. If your daughter considers veganism she should think about vitamin and mineral intake (particularly calcium and B12) and particularly while she is a teenager, but they can all be sourced from food, it's just making sure you have a sufficiently varied diet including pulses and cereals.

"pescatarian" = Fishandchipocrite!

Vegan 'for the planet' is a total waste of time. The only thing that'll really help the planet is a lot less humans.
So, how about 'Childless; for the planet'. That'll do far more good than I'm eating this/not eating that.

I could suggest a carnivorous solution to the too many humans question, but apparently that's frowned upon.

Do we eat the Americans first? They've been fattened up nicely

she had decided to go pescatarian. She explained her reasons well

I guess she hasn't seen how trawler caught fish die.

Rather than this binary / polarised view that we should do one thing or another, it is far better for our mental wellbeing to think "I am doing something towards a goal", and best if we do a little bit in all aspects of our lives in the 'right' direction, rather than passing the buck to 'someone else'. It is better that I do a little in the right direction than I don't do anything at all, but I also should not chastise myself if I fall off the wagon every now and again. I hope the OP finds some nice new recipes going forward.

Vegan ‘for the planet’ is a total waste of time. The only thing that’ll really help the planet is a lot less humans.
So, how about ‘Childless; for the planet’. That’ll do far more good than I’m eating this/not eating that.

Childless - tick. So vegan and childless - Do I win some sort of prize?

I might take some contention with your total waste of time angle but broadly I think most of even the ardent omnivores would agree a collectively lot less intensive meat consumption (and therefore production) would be a pretty good thing to our long term ability not to bollox up the world faster than currently destined. But yes a big old mass epidemic to thin out the numbers a bit might help too......oh. Awkward!

Regardless, my choices are done low key. Most folks I know in the real world don't know. I'm not into the idea of making a big thing about it. I'm far more vocal about it here than in the real world but even then I hope I'm not preachy. I've taken the attitude that it's a bit like choosing not to sit on a seat on a bus. The seat is then free for others to sit on if they need to. I wouldn't want others not to sit on it just because I've decided I don't need it. I also don't want a special badge for my 'sacrifice'. Because it isn't one and now more than ever a very normal choice.

Because it isn’t one and now more than ever a very normal choice.

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it.

The answer to "why are you vegetarian?" for me is simply "because I want to be, and because I have the luxury of being able to". Anything else is (veggie) gravy. Why is eating meat the default and deviating away from this perceived norm somehow requires justification? It's not the case in other cultures.

Yet turn the question around and it often makes people uncomfortable ("preachy vegans" etc). Maybe that's so in some (rare) cases, but if nothing else then at least you can guarantee that they've given it some thought rather than just doing what they've always done.

Vegan ‘for the planet’ is a total waste of time. The only thing that’ll really help the planet is a lot less humans.
So, how about ‘Childless; for the planet’. That’ll do far more good than I’m eating this/not eating that.

this every time. A vegan diet requires either the input of the fishing and animal farming industry to provide fertiliser or a dependence on the oil industry for non organic fertiliser which creates a dilemma for those who are vegan for the environmental benefits.

this every time. A vegan diet requires either the input of the fishing and animal farming industry to provide fertiliser or a dependence on the oil industry for non organic fertiliser which creates a dilemma for those who are vegan for the environmental benefits.

So it is your assertion that a plant based diet is the same, better or worse for the planet and has more, less or the same involvement of animals in its production than a diet that includes mass produced meat?

Very little in life has anything other than a negative impact and you'd be a fool to think otherwise. But to minimise that impact as a goal is no bad thing.

I would read ‘spoon fed’ by tim Spector (he of the COVID Zoe app).
It has completely changed my view on food/diet and and I now enjoy a lot of things I had cut out due to the perceived health/planetary benefits.

Unfortunately it has also upped my shopping bill somewhat in my quest to avoid anything pumped full of shit.

I guess she hasn’t seen how trawler caught fish die

I saw no mention of moral reasons.
I stopped eating meat because I wanted to test the health benefits. I still kill animals for others that don't do it themselves (majority of meat eaters). Not everyone gives up foods on moral grounds.

I will on occasion eat fish, as I have used fish oil for my arthritis so it would seem daft not to

Unfortunately my local area is almost as far from the sea as you can get in the UK

Can be delivered overnight from the coast, several companies in Cornwall offer this, I sure those from elsewhere do as well.

No downsides.
Save money, the planet and your health.
Be a role model for future generations.