[Closed] Gofundme page for dad whose divorce means he's broke

Well it's certainly been more successful than trying to raise money to see Mickey Mouse

so she sold her story to the S*n instead

Best stick to some random assortment of words arranged into vows, instead of reasoned judgement, though eh?

I wasn't referring simply to marriage vows, more the responsibility one takes on when one decides to have children. It's my firm belief that children benefit from a stable home with 2 parents. You find that offensive because it doesn't match the life you chose. I couldn't care less. They're my beliefs.

I got divorced when my kids were young, and you're right about one thing they have never had a happy home life.

They've had two.

My sister-in-law got divorced 6 years ago. Their 3 kids have now got two shit homes instead of one.

They're now full of issues in and out of school. Neither parent puts them first and they constantly find ways to points score off one another.

Works both ways this divorce lark.

people suggesting (indirectly or otherwise) that he can 'go f*** himself'.

Fund. The word was Fund.

As in "take reponsibility for your own financial affairs on account of being a grown up".

I'm sure he's a nice bloke and everything but asking the internet for money because he can't be arsed taking responsibility for his own decisions seems unbelievably crass to me when we are constantly bombarded with appeals for money to help people who are unable to help themselves.

You say he's "genuinely in the poop".

He's not.

People whose children are dying of starvation in Somalia because of the worst drought in 200 years, or whose entire families have been killed in Syria or other conflicts around the world.

They're in the poop.

Jim could solve his own problems by having a grown up conversation with his ex wife or doing some extra shifts at McDonalds or in a car wash.

He's potentially taken $12,000 dollars away from those who really need it.

If the worst that happens to him is that he gets pelters from random internet strangers half a world away, he'll probably get over it.....if he can be bothered.

I suppose it's just possible that those who give kids two shit homes would have given them one even shitter home, and that those who give them two happy homes might have even managed to give them one home where life was OK (until they worked out that it wasn't normal for daddy to have his own bedroom).

I expect we all have those beliefs whilst it's all working, councilof10 - if you haven't tried the alternative then you could just be a bit quieter about things you actually have no experience of.

To be fair, neither of my kids on my power kite, so they've never experienced true happiness.

if I had any morals, that'd probably keep me awake at night. Its a good job I'm unrtoubled by such things

They're now full of issues in and out of school. Neither parent puts them first and they constantly find ways to points score off one another.

So if they'd stayed together they'd have miraculously transformed into model parents?

There's some serious triumphs of logic going on on this thread.

People who are shit parents, are just shit parents, married or divorced

To be fair, neither of my kids on my power kite,

But you'll happily splash the cash on all that unnecessary extra pastry for the sides and the bottom to feed your own twisted desires.

You monster. 😉

Fund. The word was Fund.

Not you - someone else more directly suggested the alternative, though your literal post was strongly suggestive of that alternative.

People whose children are dying of starvation in Somalia because of the worst drought in 200 years, or whose entire families have been killed in Syria or other conflicts around the world.

They're in the poop.

So by that logic, no one apart from those poor hapless children have any right to claim hardship? So we can shut up about how disadvantaged women are, or the disabled, the poor, ethnic minorities, people with terminal cancer etc.

I think you have a point; I think you're saying that perhaps his perspective is wrong and I would agree with you, which is what motivated my original post. I'm just not sure he's entirely undeserving of our sympathy. And maybe you're prepared to offer him that, just not money. And I think that's where I agree with you also.

Probably the only difference between our assessments of the situation are the words we chose to express our views.

I suppose it's just possible that those who give kids two shit homes would have given them one even shitter home

If you're going to give children a sh*t home, perhaps you're not best suited to having kids. If you're not prepared to commit to sticking around, perhaps you're not best suited to having kids. If you can't make a relationship work, weather the storms and protect your kids from your own problems, then perhaps you're not best suited to having kids!

It's my firm belief that children benefit from a [s]stable[/s] home with 2 parents.

Fixed that for you seeing as though this debate started due to an unstable home situation with two adults that, it would seem, can no longer live together. I'm genuinely interested in where your belief stems from though? Did you have s stable upbringing? If so, good for you. We had to move house to get away from my Father. I fear he may have badly hurt or possibly killed my Mother if we hadn't. I guess you think it would have been better all round had they stayed together though?

If you can't make a relationship work, weather the storms and protect your kids from your own problems, then perhaps you're not best suited to having kids!

Would you class spousal abuse as weathering the storm? I'm just curious is all. I'd like a pet Unicorn, but living in the real world hampers this, perhaps you should try joining me here?

I'm just not sure he's entirely undeserving of our sympathy.

You might feel that because you know him personally.

I would suggest that he MTFU and goes and gets a job in McDonald's to order to pay his rent, rather than begging via the Internet. Seems like that is beneath him.

#lazymiddleclasswhitecollarworker

[quote=councilof10 ]If you're going to give children a sh*t home, perhaps you're not best suited to having kids.

Says the man who went as far as having IVF with somebody he couldn't make a relationship work with. But then it's also clear from that that you have no experience at all of the situation in which some people have kids...

If you're not prepared to commit to sticking around, perhaps you're not best suited to having kids. If you can't make a relationship work, weather the storms and protect your kids from your own problems, then perhaps you're not best suited to having kids!

And you're going into parenthood with that open-minded, pragmatic and flexible, accomadating attitude, are you?

Good luck! You're going to need it! I hope the real world never intrudes on your frankly weird Victorian bubble. I assume your crystal ball has assured you its all going to be plain sailing?

[img] [/img]

So we can shut up about how disadvantaged women are, or the disabled, the poor, ethnic minorities, people with terminal cancer etc.

Nope. My point entirely is that your friend is none of these things. He has virtually every advantage at his fingertips that society can offer.

I'm just not sure he's entirely undeserving of our sympathy. And maybe you're prepared to offer him that, just not money

I have every sympathy for his position. It's a position that anyone on here could be in..... less so for his attitude that the world in general should be bailing him out because he can't be bothered to do it for himself.

^^what Binners said. We went through hell when my son was born and he still doesn't sleep through at three. You best make damned sure your relationship with your partner is rock solid. Mine is, but there have been very close to breaking points for both of us over the last three years.

Says the man who went as far as having IVF with somebody he couldn't make a relationship work with.

Oof!
[img] [/img]

Nope. My point entirely is that your friend is none of these things. He has virtually every advantage at his fingertips that society can offer.

Oh that old chestnut. Yeah well I'm sure you know how I feel about that. Simply being 'male white and middle class' does not automatically confer an advantage on you, just like being young black and male doesn't automatically mean you're a drug dealing violent gang member. But we will have to agree to disagree on that.

because he can't be bothered to do it for himself.

[i]If[/i] that's what's happening here.

Simply being 'male white and middle class' does not automatically confer an advantage on you,

Yes it does.

being young black and male doesn't automatically mean you're a drug dealing violent gang member

But it makes it a lot more likely.

We had to move house to get away from my Father. I fear he may have badly hurt or possibly killed my Mother if we hadn't.

I'm guessing that your father wasn't best suited to having children.

Says the man who went as far as having IVF with somebody he couldn't make a relationship work with.

Let's just say that the process made me see that she wasn't best suited to having children.

We went through hell when my son was born and he still doesn't sleep through at three. You best make damned sure your relationship with your partner is rock solid. Mine is, but there have been very close to breaking points for both of us over the last three years.

Sounds like you're quite well suited to having children. Best wishes for the future! 🙂

Simply being 'male white and middle class' does not automatically confer an advantage on you,

Agreed.....but because a specific example happens to conform to a sterotype doesn't in any way prove the sterotype any more than it negates the fact that, in this instance, it's true.

Based on Jim's own information he seems to be possessed of enough intelligence and education to at least procure a consultancy or sales job.

He doesn't mention any impediments or disabilities which would actively prevent him from obtaining work.

It's just kinda difficult.

He was close to getting evicted more than ten months ago. Presumably he's either been evicted or is continuing to live there on other peoples money.

He's had ten months to find a job. Any luck there?

I'm convinced he's confused laziness and apathy for bad luck and hardship.

Ah, I remember the good old days of Internet Panhandling. All you needed was a winsome smile, £20k of credit card debt and a book deal would land in your lap almost immediately.

I think Jim is about 14 years too late to make a go of this idea.

[url= http://www.karynbosnak.com/save-karyn/ ]http://www.karynbosnak.com/save-karyn/[/url]

I'm guessing that your father wasn't best suited to having children.

Funny thing is he was, even adopted my older brother. His own personal demons, coupled with my mother's issues lead him down the path of alcoholism. This changed him beyond all recognition and he never admitted the problem. There wasn't the help there is now for people with mental issues either.

Must be nice in your sepia toned wonderland. Are there rainbows there? Scratch that as they'd be in black and white wouldn't they, so you wouldn't know

. I'm even more amazed at how nastily some people are behaving on this thread.

Sadly, I'm not....

I'm convinced he's confused laziness and apathy for bad luck and hardship.

100%... And he displays a level of entitlement normally only seen in people 30 or 40 years younger than him!

Jim wants a bail-out.
The banks got one, so why not give it a go?

Certainly has got rather ugly in the last page.

Entertaining though... in a train crash kind of way.

Funny thing is he was, even adopted my older brother. His own personal demons, coupled with my mother's issues lead him down the path of alcoholism.

Right... I'm going to tread really carefully here as it's really not my intention to offend you, but I fear I might. Apologies in advance...

But 'demons' and 'issues' are their problems, and I'm sorry, but they really are reasons that one could say make them not best suited to parenthood. Everyone has the right to decide for themselves if they should have children, but 'demons' and 'issues' doesn't make them blameless when they decide to bail out.

Regarding the OP (as I've gone off topic) I'd say fair play to him. If people want to donate then who's to stop them deciding what to do with their own money?

I wouldn't donate or try that tactic myself. If I were ever to be that desperate I'd sell all my possessions, attempt to sell my body and possibly resort to crime before even having a Facebook account 🙂

In your world of absolute moral certainties, as well as nuance, you seem to struggle with the concepts of empathy and compassion too.

Are you Iain Duncan Smith?

But 'demons' and 'issues' are their problems, and I'm sorry, but they really are reasons that one could say make them not best suited to parenthood. Everyone has the right to decide for themselves if they should have children, but 'demons' and 'issues' doesn't make them blameless when they decide to bail out.

Don't worry I'm really difficult to upset or offend (probably as a result of my upbringing) where my parents are concerned so you're fine on that count. I find your black and white view a bit disturbing to be honest. His issues weren't preexisting and developed when I was around ten.

If he'd not have bailed the situation would have been a lot worse. Possibly to a tragic degree, so I'm bloody glad he did.

In your world of absolute moral certainties, as well as nuance, you seem to struggle with the concepts of empathy and compassion too.

Not in the slightest. If we did live in a perfect world, people would accept responsibility for their own circumstances rather than constantly trying to blame everyone else. And they'd admit it when they failed or if decisions they made were to the detriment of other people rather than trying to bully the world into agreeing that they 'did the right thing'.

[quote=councilof10 ]Let's just say that the process made me see that she wasn't best suited to having children.

and if you hadn't had to go through that process you wouldn't have found out until a bit later

And they'd admit it when they failed or if decisions they made were to the detriment of other people

I'm guessing that's not an issue you've ever had either?

I'm guessing that's not an issue you've ever had either?

Have you been reading a different thread? I'm perfectly capable of admitting when I failed, it's still a failure no matter how I try to paint it. Thankfully the situation didn't affect children - I made my decision before it did...

Anyway, as much as you clearly want to talk about my life, we seem to be wandering away from Jim, who from what I can gather, isn't plagued by demons or issues and remains friends with his ex, so it's safe to say neither of them are dangerous.

He's just of such weak character and liking in pride that he's prepared to scrounge money off strangers to pay for what he considers to be a lifestyle he deserves.

The OP came on here asking for our opinions, and I'm giving it... I find it abhorrent! He needs to man up, grow a pair and face up to his own responsibilities rather than rattling a tin and expecting the rest of the world to bail him out.

He's made his own bed, and if that means he's deprived of the "oxygen" that is his children, tough luck sunshine!

TBF, going through this shit must be hard, regardless of location / age / race. Bit unfair to comment unless you have gone through it yourself - Find it's so easy to have an opinion these days. I'm sure there are more worthy causes but at least you can see exactly where the money goes. Was going to leave $2 as my good totally random deed of the day, in the hope of helping out a dude down on his luck - then got told I had to donate a minimum of $5 which is too much. Any UK MTB'ers going through the same shit and need some help?

He's only a couple of grand away from his target! Awesome stuff.

#payforjim

Judge not that ye be judged etc etc on this issue for me.

He's just of such weak character and liking in pride that he's prepared to scrounge money off strangers to pay for what he considers to be a lifestyle he deserves.

And it appears to be working too. Maybe he's not of weak character, maybe he's very savvy. See, I too can play guess the personality traits of people I don't know.

#payforjim indeed

I'm convinced he's confused laziness and apathy for bad luck and hardship.

Very, very premature to make that judgement, I'd say.

geetee1972 - Member
Fund. The word was Fund.
Not you - someone else more directly suggested the alternative, though your literal post was strongly suggestive of that alternative.

I think you might be referring to my comment, backing up someone else's comment.

Whilst I appreciate your friends situation, and I do, I'm afraid he will have to Fund himself as far as I'm concerned. Sympathy and empathy are rightfully given in the saddest and desperate despicable situations, in my eyes this is not one to warrant any Funding from me. What You choose to do with your hard earned Funds, is like, entirely up to you.

But I admire his aptitude and application for warranting Funds to enable an "as is" lifestyle, sure the bloke knows how to play on both moral and social attitudes. He could apply those skills in a job, maybe an internet based startup or other crowdfunding environment where skills like his are highly sought after.

This thread looks like a corker, I'll be watching from this side of the internet for insite and humour.

I'll tell you a story about Jim.

[img] [/img]

He got 'downsized' about six month later.

Can Jim not catch a break? If he's been downsized, presumably with some sort of experimental shrinkray, no wonder he's moaning about living seven miles away. That'll seem like, well, more than seven miles. Is that why his wife divorced him?

Hey, where did the story go?

[img] [/img]

He sounds like the very personification of the old adage...'nice guys finish last'. Bet he'd be delighted to read this thread!! Might be worth asking for a deletion actually, any potential future employers would also find it rather interesting reading.

Edit. I see the story has in fact disappeared.

So I did instead and knocked the ball out of the park.

You go-getter, you!

[img] ?no-auto[/img]

I deleted the story because in my naivety I forgot this was STW and no good would come of it.

Spoilsport. It had everything - role play, humiliation, uncontrollable shaking... 😀

Spoilsport. It had everything - role play, humiliation, uncontrollable shaking...

😀

Unfortunately it also had a mahoosive dollop of, albeit entirely unintentional, virtue signaling on my part. The whiff of lesser stag and chest wig did rather fill the air .

So, genuine question, how is Jim doing now?

Binners could fund him on the utterly amazing football betting he does

Dammit, I missed Jim's biog... anyone care to give me a brief synopsis?

Let's just say that the process made me see that she wasn't best suited to having children.

So if the IVF had worked you would of landed up having a child with someone you don't deem fit to have a child with? Pot meet kettle?

@greentricky - http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/gofundme-page-for-dad-whose-divorce-means-hes-broke/page/3#post-8336851

So if the IVF had worked you would of landed up having a child with someone you don't deem fit to have a child with? Pot meet kettle?

I'd have ended up with a relationship that needed a lot of work. But when I made the commitment to try and start a family, I was 100% committed to seeing it through and if it had been successful, I would have done, no matter what.

I believe that having children is a far greater commitment than any marital vow - it's not a "Victorian" attitude, it's just something I firmly believe. After much soul searching, I made a decision that the relationship I was in wasn't right, so rather than bring children into it and risk damaging their lives, I parked it. I'm 100% comfortable with the decision I made - I failed as a husband but at least I didn't fail as a father.

Modern society seems to think we should respect everyone else's choices and decisions, even when they're clearly not in the best interests of children. It all boils down to the disparity between knowing your rights and knowing your responsibilities. We should know that we have a responsibility to not exercise our rights unless we're going to see them through.

There's been a bit of attitude from posters here (one in particular) who takes offense at my views because he made choices that are at odds with my views. I was brought up to believe that you stand by your family no matter what. Your family's welfare (if you're lucky enough to have one) is secondary to your own happiness. It's particularly easy for blokes to walk away citing that old chestnut "it just wasn't right for me" leaving a broken family in their wake.

And having been single in my thirties, I've seen countless times how difficult it is for women with children to rebuild a decent life after ****less partners have knocked em up and then shipped out!

****less partners have knocked em up

Did you really post that????? 🙄

****less means unthinking and irresponsible... It's the perfect word for what I was describing.

What's it like, being you?

I hope Jim gets himself sorted out, I wouldn't necessarily give him money but I can understand the position he finds himself in.

What's it like, being you?

A whole lot better than being Jim! 😀

You think?

It's particularly easy for blokes to walk away citing that old chestnut "it just wasn't right for me" leaving a broken family in their wake.

I think you're seriously underestimating how difficult it is to walk away. I doubt most men do it in the manner you describe. I'd be happy to retract that if you can provide any actual evidence to back up what you're saying though.

Are you also seriously stating that it's better for children if their parents stay together under any circumstances? I can tell you from first hand experience that is utter horse shite. A childless man dictating his moral stance on the upbringing of children. Come back when you have kids

[img] ?6[/img]

Come back when you have kids

I'll see you in September 😉

And yes, I know dozens of men who have several kids by different mothers - they breeze in and out of their lives with reckless abandon, oblivious to the trail of destruction in their wake.

For every bloke that simply moves on to pastures greener, there's a broken family and more often than not, a mother who will struggle to find a new partner to take on another man's kids and will face a lifetime of loneliness. If you don't agree that this happens, I would suggest that it's you, not me that has a rather skewed view of the world!

I think somebody's been watching a bit too much Jeremy Kyle

[img] [/img]

[quote=councilof10 ]a mother who will struggle to find a new partner to take on another man's kids and will face a lifetime of loneliness.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and it takes two people to make a relationship...

actually that's probably way to cryptic for your level of emotional intelligence - there's more than one way to be lonely, and it doesn't matter how good your commitment is if you're the only one trying. Just because the father physically left doesn't mean he's the one who left the relationship.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and it takes two people to make a relationship...

Of course, and I've never sat down with an excel spreadsheet and 'done the math', but off the top of my head, I can probably name 30 blokes within my circle of acquaintances who've walked away from their families compared to 1 woman.

If you don't agree that this happens, I would suggest that it's you, not me that has a rather skewed view of the world!

I'm not disagreeing that it does happen. I'm stating it's not as black and white as you make out. I would also wager that there are more marriages that break down for other reasons than the Jeremy Kyle factor. I think you're suffering with some confirmation bias. Do women never leave men in your world? Do single fathers not exist?

You still haven't answered my question regarding whether you think parents should stick together under any circumstances. In your opinion should they?

[quote=councilof10 ]off the top of my head, I can probably name 30 blokes within my circle of acquaintances who've walked away from their families compared to 1 woman.

I edited after you posted - you have no idea who left emotionally just who had their life physically disrupted.

I can probably name 30 blokes within my circle of acquaintances who've walked away from their families compared to 1 woman.

You must have a massive circle of very close friends if you know 30 of well enough to know the real reasons of a marriage breakdown. It's not something you discuss in detail with some bloke at work or someone who you occasionally have a pint with.

****less means unthinking and irresponsible... It's the perfect word for what I was describing.

It was more the "knocked up" part of the quote I was amazed by. 🙄

You still haven't answered my question regarding whether you think parents should stick together under any circumstances. In your opinion should they?

In a perfect world, yes. My own parents went through some very tough times, emotionally and financially. When one had 'issues' or 'demons', the other supported them and worked together to make it work. I'm pretty sure they hated the sight of each other at various points throughout their marriage, but they made a commitment - not just to each other - but to raising a family, and they saw it through.

Your "under any circumstances" is quite deliberately vague, but let me dissect it. If one party was unfaithful, then they've failed in their commitment. If one person has 'issues' or 'demons', then they both have a responsibility to address them, not just throw in the towel so they can move on and start again.

So, what other "under any circumstances" are we talking about?

[quote=councilof10 ]Your "under any circumstances" is quite deliberately vague, but let me dissect it. If one party was unfaithful, then they've failed in their commitment.

So in that case it's OK for the other party to walk? How about if the other party has failed in their commitment in other ways?

You still appear to be completely missing a circumstances which I'm sure are far from unique.

[img] [/img]

Refer back to my last post Aracer, I made my thoughts perfectly clear there. Are you going to answer my question?

In a perfect world, yes.

I see the flaw in your arguement 😀

So, what other "under any circumstances" are we talking about?

Any circumstances. There can be a lot. I'm not being vague, just asking you to clarify your views. I'll make it simpler for you. When, in your opinion, is it acceptable to walk away from a marriage? You keep using the phrase 'in an ideal world' unfortunately that isn't the one we live in though is it?

Your whole outlook seems absurd to me. I'm the child of a seriously messed up marriage and I'm thankful my parents called it quits. The environment I lived in was one of abject misery and fear from the age of nine to thirteen Are you saying that environment is better for a child to live in?

What question? And no, you haven't made your thoughts totally clear on what you think is appropriate behaviour from one partner if there is no commitment from the other.

Why oh why did he have to bump it with the same bloody comment someone else had already made ?? 😥

What question?

Let me walk you through this... If you look at my previous post, it ended with a question... It's really not rocket surgery. 🙄

The only question there references your prior question which was aimed at me. Come on it's not brain science 😀