[Closed] Giving a longer notice in

I've seen it done, whether it is proper or not IANAL so don't know. They didn't give notice, but had an informal talk to be honest with their boss to say that they had found another role with a competitor that would start in 3 months time, and they could work another 2 months and then give notice if so desired. But equally made the point that while they were aware of their obligations to secrecy, not stealing the customer list, etc., the boss might be uncomfortable if / when it came out that they knew and had them there all that time.

In that case they stayed as a worker but only to work on specific projects and handover and then 'wfh' when not needed for these specific tasks

Depends on the employers view and their notice period.

Working a longer notice period shouldn’t be an issue but unless there’s a valid reason for gardening leave I’d bet on no chance. If the usual policy is to give gardening leave just to avoid having staff who are leaving in the office then I’d bet you’ll be out as soon as you give it.

I’d hang fire, but like all stw employment threads the only answer comes from your employer..

I don't really see how you'd get extended gardening leave out of the plan. You are technically just resigning and then working out your contractual notice. If the company don't need you around longer than the contractual notice they're not going to pay you to sit at home for longer than they need to so would stop paying you after 4 weeks. If they did want you to stay for 8 weeks instead of 4 I would assume it would be because they want you doing stuff (handover etc.) during that entire period.

So 'your friend' would
like to leave the company in 8 weeks but would like an extra 4 weeks holiday before you leave?

I was thinking exactly what FuzzyWuzzy said. If it's a gardening leave situation you'll get 4 weeks from point of handing in your notice, no matter when the new job starts. Why would they pay you twice what they legally need to do?

How sure are they of getting 4 weeks garden leave? I’d have a chat with my boss, say i’m happy to work the full notice, any garden leave is a bonus, Shirley? I’d bet that if garden leave was automatic for 4 weeks, your friend would probably get it for 8. How senior is your friend, and how long have they worked there? Is the new role with a competitor? Would the company be happy giving your friend access to all its systems for another month, knowing they are leaving?

I wouldn't.

I've seen it before where someone hands in their notice early to try and help the company plan better for their departure, only to have them rebuff them and say your notice period starts today. They ended up with a month unpaid between jobs as a result

The question I’d be asking is why would the new employer be waiting 8 weeks when you’re available to start in 4?

If it’s a gardening leave situation you’ll get 4 weeks from point of handing in your notice, no matter when the new job starts. Why would they pay you twice what they legally need to do?

Exactly what I was thinking.

I always saw gardening leave at the employers discretion e.g. I have a three month notice period and if I’m kicked out I’d expect them to tell me if and how long I stay at home for.   I didn’t think the employee had a choice to request time off for garden leave, I assumed that was annual leave.

I've just done exactly that. Gave my boss an informal heads up that I'm offski in 3 months, even though I'm only on a 4 week notice. I know it'll take longer than 4 weeks to find a replacement, and it'll be easier for everyone else in the department if they don't have to do without someone in my role for a while.

Can't really think of any downsides, unless your boss is a spiteful arsehole and pulls something like

I’ve seen it before where someone hands in their notice early to try and help the company plan better for their departure, only to have them rebuff them and say your notice period starts today. They ended up with a month unpaid between jobs as a result

Extended gardening leave seems a bit of an ask, but if that's the done thing in your your friend's industry then maybe it's worth a punt, provided you they could afford to end up with a couple of months not getting paid.

I didn’t think the employee had a choice to request time off for garden leave, I assumed that was annual leave.

They don’t, totally dependant on the company, and if it wants departing employees to have access to customers/proprietary info right up until they leave, possibly to a competitor.

As a light aside an old colleague sounded out whether she’d get GL if she left, and it seemed she would, as she had access to customer deals etc. So handed her notice in, nothing was mentioned of GL, so she questioned it. Response was ‘Nah, your attendance rate is 80% (!) so if you work for the final 4 weeks, we’ll likely only have to pay you for 16 days, rather than 20 on GL. She was most miffed, came in 2/3 times a week for the last 4, due to ‘illness’.

Also assume if you’ve got annual leave left it comes out of your notice period.

Also assume if you’ve got annual leave left it comes out of your notice period.

If you have unused accrued leave, you are paid it, they can’t make you take it.

Not an uncommon ask in my industry, but we stopped agreeing to it about 10yrs ago due mainly to the extended period we'd still be paying for the employee to sit at home.

I know someone on Garden Leave ATM, and like all GL situations I've been involved in the employee has to be able to come into work when asked, for a length of time asked by the employer.

Why your "friend" want's to be paid for sitting at home for an extra 4weeks is IMO just a way of getting more holiday leave FOC.

GL is normally issued when a bout of redundancies are being sought when some large restructure is in flight, to that end the employer is the one who decides whether it's a viable and cost effective way of effectively making the role redundant (and the employee sitting in that role)

Best of luck, be interesting to see how this plays out for your friend.. Get them a log in and tell us how it pans out for them.

If you have unused accrued leave, you are paid it, they can’t make you take it.

That's not my understanding and I don't think it's just a Royal Mail policy. Employers can force or cancel leave, as long as they give twice the length of the leave period as notice.

So if I gave 4 weeks notice to quit and I had 2 weeks leave outstanding that I'd be entitled to regardless of leaving part way through the annual leave year, they could tell me on the same day as giving notice that the final two weeks of notice would be annual leave.

If I had one week of leave booked on 10th Feb, it could be cancelled by RM providing they informed me no later than 27th Jan.

Make sure you take all your accrued holiday before you hand your notice in then. Seems a bit odd that.

My last job I accepted the new (current) one to start in 9 weeks (I had 2 months notice on rental accommodation and had to find somewhere to new to stay).

I waited until my notice period was due and then handed in my letter (using up my annual leave and stating an official departure date and a last working day).

One of my team has advised they are applying to back to uni (so technically verbal 9 month notice). We are working with them to cover all eventualities and ensure that they will be able to pursue their chosen path as pain free as possible (despite really not wanting them to leave) as they have done the right thing (it allows me to better plan for the future).

In ‘your’ case ‘you’ only seem to be after some extra selfish benefit (at the companies expense). Personally that would piss me off and I’d only go as far as I absolutely had to and absolutely no further. ‘You’d’ also go down in my estimation as you want something for nothing that you’re not entitled to.

This is precisely why we can’t have nice things... 🤪

Thanks for all your thoughts.
Gardening leave is normal in my job, as soon as you give notice in you get marched out of the door.
I guess the question I wanted to ask was if I give 8 weeks notice in can they force me to take 4 and kick me out sooner than I want?
Re. The comments about potentially taking the proverbial, that is not unfair, but for various reasons I don’t feel I owe the firm anything and will be unlikely to cross paths with them at any point. Worst case they make me work through...!

I don’t feel I owe the firm anything and will be unlikely to cross paths with them at any point.

Personally I always feel its best not to burn bridges, even if that means gritting your teeth for a bit.

if I give 8 weeks notice in can they force me to take 4 and kick me out sooner than I want?

Yes they can as the contract you have only commits them to pay you for 4 and then this

ended up with a month unpaid between jobs as a result

Also re burning bridges, you never know:
Just had a few colleagues go in quick succession to join an old MD at his new company. New sector, no chance of crossing paths....so they let rip to HR about current colleagues at exit interviews. Only to find out a few weeks later that a senior manager they all dislike intensely, is also switching to the new company as their boss.....

I’ve seen it before where someone hands in their notice early to try and help the company plan better for their departure, only to have them rebuff them and say your notice period starts today. They ended up with a month unpaid between jobs as a result

Really, is that legit? They're effectively sacking you for handing in your notice, unless you're in some kind of probation period I can't see how they can do that.

If employers were able to sack people for any reason they fancied, redundancy wouldn't exist.

Anyway, a surefire way of not getting GL is to ask for it. From an employers point of view I was granted it once, but it was a bit of a freebie for long service and redundancy. I don't know of anyone getting it who resigned, aside from being sent home at 09:01 on your last day.

Glad you didn't take it personal.

However, never.burn.bridges.

You never know when things will take an unexpected turn (especially these days) or who you might meet somewhere else...

I've gone back to a place I swore that I never would... (After a decade...)

Well, that went well.
8 weeks gardening leave agreed once I've finished my handover today. And once I had that in writing I dropped that I had 3 weeks holiday owed too and I expected to be paid for it rather than taking it out of my notice, which they also agreed.
So 11 weeks in the garden starts tomorrow, and I'm going for a beer at lunch.
Lovely.

What does your contract of employment say about notice of termination?

is it a minimum of 4 weeks, 4 weeks or a calendar month etc?

With a copy of your employment contract perhaps a short consultation with an employment lawyer might confirm it if still ambiguous.

You could give your boss a heads up you will be leaving in 2 months but not put your formal notice in. If they then sack you ie you leave 4 weeks from today thats probably unfair dismissal. You would have recourse via a tribunal if you have more than 2 years service but probably not worth the hassle.

Attempting to game the system to get 4 week extra garden leave could well backfire on you

So 11 weeks in the garden starts tomorrow, and I’m going for a beer at lunch.
Lovely.

Indeed, well done.

I very much enjoyed the 14 weeks I had last spring/summer 😃

Result... I'd go shopping for some thermal clothing, your garden will be chilly for several weeks! 😉

Well, that went well.
8 weeks gardening leave agreed once I’ve finished my handover today. And once I had that in writing I dropped that I had 3 weeks holiday owed too and I expected to be paid for it rather than taking it out of my notice, which they also agreed.
So 11 weeks in the garden starts tomorrow, and I’m going for a beer at lunch.
Lovely.

Blimey.

The last time I resigned, I ended up having to work every hour of the 3 month notice period. Was not fun - ostensibly it was to ensure a thorough hand-over - and even then they're still calling me a year later asking questions about systems and processes they were meant to be on top of.

Currently on a six-month notice period in the new place...don't think many people in my industry (finance) can get away with 4 weeks any more and I know of a good number on 12 months. Quite how workable / enforceable they are, I don't know...it was bad enough doing 3 months of working to rule.

Well, I’m of mixed opinions.  I’m all for fairness yet I’m about integrity of character at work so I find the dropping of annual leave thing into the mix <i>after</i> the fact a bit distasteful tbh.

Maybe they agreed to it because they want shot of him?
🤷‍♂️🤪🤪🤪🤗

Who’s on a 12 month notice period? That sounds nuts. What sort of industry is that?

Agree with Kryton really. We don’t know the full back story, but it doesn’t really look good. I always think it’s a small world and you never know what the future holds, always best to show honesty and integrity when moving on. (Not saying OP wasn’t honest but always difficult to see what really happened reading a couple of lines in a forum)
I’m just coming to the end of my extended time off, only 12 weeks, but I’ve had enough now and dying to get back to work. Wife, kids and dog meant I was busier doing jobs at home than I was when I was working.
Back to the commute from Monday and actually can’t wait.

Who’s on a 12 month notice period? That sounds nuts. What sort of industry is that?

Jobs where there is a lot of proprietary tech involved (defence, aerospace), or job titles that start with 'Chief'.

Re the people not liking whats happened. It's a negotiation, do what is best for number one. If you don't ask, you don't get.

Maybe they agreed to it because they want shot of him?

Who knows, there might be some truth in that!!

There was no negativity in the holiday request, I agreed the notice and gardening leave, as is entirely normal in my industry, and then discussed the holiday. They were happy to pay it as the reason I’d accrued it and not used it is that I’d worked my tits off for the last 6 months and not taken any leave.
All very amicable and no bridges burned at all. Plus, don’t forget that bridges go both ways..

Once upon a time I worked for a bank. They put folk on gardening leave immediately a resignation was handed in. I resigned with way more notice than I needed too! Lots of biking done.........

Who’s on a 12 month notice period? That sounds nuts. What sort of industry is that?

Finance - C-Suite / quants / PMs / sales. It's a way of ensuring they're not able to just lift their book/models/clients from one desk, straight into another. That said, I'm not sure how enforceable these aggressive notice periods or non-competes are...