[Closed] Give Barcelona a miss this weekend!

Not at all. Gandhi got it right that meeting an evil with more evil simply grew the evil threefold. It also leaves a suppurating sore for the next several generations. We just have to look at our own govt's 'achievements' in NI to see that.

I think post WW2 would be a better measure tbh. The world is very very different to 1817.

Probably worth factoring in failed attempts as well.

Timor, Tamils, South Sudan, Chechnya, Indochina, and on and on.

seosamh77 - Member

I'm being absurd? Planet you on?

What part do you disagree with? If I understand you, you say that the history isn't relevant because there aren't parallels between Franco's fascism and the current Spanish government (arguably there are, but that's not important right now). I'm saying that's a nonsequitor- there doesn't need to be a direct parallel between Franco's fascism- or any other part of the long history of Catalonia- for it to still be relevant. Just as there are no parallels between ww2 and the EU, but it's still relevant to many people's position on brexit.

The parallels are important. If they are going throw accusations about they need to be able to back them up.

WW2 may well be relevant to someone's opinion on the EU, all that means is they are completely full of shit. It has no relevance to any sensible EU debate.

Seosamh your stance against the police violence is clear.
That particular group of police is one possible parallel with Franco though. I apologise if this is an unnecessary history lesson. Under the Franco regime Catalans saw the Guardia Civil as Franco's attack dogs. Corruption was rife beatings were frequent people disappeared. After he died the new regime agreed that the Guardia Civil would only have a small role in front line policing in Catalonia, because of the animosity between the Guardia and Catalans. So why did Rajoy choose to send them in ? How did he expect the Catalan Indy supporters to react? Particularly given that Partido Popular was founded by Franco's supporters.

You will see what you want to see. I'm clearly not going to convince you.

Quite aware of the history. So no it's not a lesson, take it as already understood and I still disagree.

Spain taking this pretty seriously then . . . .

Bump. It looks like the Catalans have returned a majority of pro independence parties. Ciudanos is likely to be the biggest party and is anti independence but will not be able to form a majority government if it can form any sort of government.

So far it seems most of the parties are claiming some kind of victory with the exception of PP.
[url= https://www.elnacional.cat/ca/en-directe/actualitat-21122017_2169_126.html ]El Nacional[/url]

Going to be messy. Electorate have reaffirmed Independence bias and on largest ever turnout.

Well actually . . . .

[i] Separatist parties will hold a slim, reduced, majority in the new assembly.

However the Citizens party, which wants Catalonia to remain a semi-autonomous part of Spain, is the biggest party.

As a result, it is unclear who will be given the right to form a government. [/i]

Basically changes nothing.