I don't believe in ghosts but I agree that some things are not easily explained.
I used to have a volunteer caretaker type role for an outdoor adventure centre accommodation building. It used to be a large church hall and caretaker accommodation for the church. There were two or three rooms down in one corner of the building where I always felt very, very uncomfortable. To be honest, I used to be scared going into them. No good reason for it, I never saw anything, no one ever told me a ghost story. The building was refurbed and all the internal walls ripped out and rebuilt to totally different configuration. Still got the same feeling. A few months later I had a military unit staying there overnight whilst doing a LEJOG. The guy staying in that room got up in the night, ran out of the building in his pants and point blank refused to go back in. He slept in a minibus. Absolutely refused to talk about it but was terrified.
I don't know what was going on.
Yeah my grandparents made up stories too.
Oh yes, absolutely I'm not claiming any sort of veracity at all for this. merely passing on a ghost story to add to the heap. I don't think for a second that it has any more veracity than any other ghost story as told by a father to his son.
I'm as skeptical as the next atheist about ghostly shenanigans however...
In the late 90s, the wife and I rented an 250 year old mining cottage at Ellenabeich on Seil for a week's holiday. Part way through the week, we were watching TV in the main room when we both heard a loud clatter from the bedroom. Went in to find a framed painting lying on the floor in the middle of the room. The wall hook, several feet away, was secure, as was the brass chain on the back of the picture.
To prove to the wife (of a highly religious upbringing) that it had just fallen off and there was now't freaky going on, I decided to demonstrate that the picture could be hung precariously with the chain balanced atop the hook. Despite my best efforts, the chain wouldn't stay put and would either immediately settle securely onto the hook or fall off.
The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room. We were alone in the cottage, the windows were shut and the only external door was from the main room. I have no answer to this but, given the age of the cottage, plenty people will have died there. Sadly, so did my chances of further nookie that week.
Sadly, so did my chances of further nookie that week.
So you're saying the unexplained event put the willies up her and you didn't?
The only rational explanation
That was an irrational explanation.
The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room.
'rational' doing some very heavy lifting (and a bit of throwing) there. That's pretty much a textbook definition of irrational!
Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.
I think that's what death is, isn't it?
I used to work at a place that was a WW2 airfield where they assembled Liberator bombers and took them on test flights. There was a memorial to the aircrew that had perished there. The old hospital block was one of the few remaining buildings of that era, subsequently converted into offices. From folks that used to work there, particularly late at night there were lots of doors banging, lights going on an off. This was an access controlled building, so people couldn’t walk in and out. After one particular ‘busy’ night a colleague asked for the security log to check who had been going in an out - it turn out he was the only one thee apart from the security guys doing their regular checks.
Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.
I think that’s what death is, isn’t it?
Unless you're a strawberry plant. (Infinite Monkey Cage reference...)
Staying in a rental cottage, allegedly haunted. Bro and his wife in a loft room. In middle of the night they were woken by a knock on the room door, which then slammed open. No windows open or obvious draft. No-one else up in the middle of the night. Sure there’s a good explanation but they were a bit freaked out by it.
Is this the prequel to the Omen?
I know my dad did some exorcisms on some new builds where they'd found saxon burial ground during construction. Don't know if was "just in case" or "because of" haunting.
Newsagent in a c16th building had a poltergeist & used to get right pissed off when it threw the stock around the shop at night.
@codybrennan that’s some story and sounds quite traumatic for you. It echoes a few experiences I’ve had which eventually in later life (after running out of possible explanations) lead me to surmise that it’s most likely something in the scope of
Time travel, parallel universes
So at least I (and other witnesses) have something to pin on certain shadowy figures/voices/music/strange synchronicities. Filed in my head under ‘unexplained, possible that I understand ‘time’ even less than I thought’.
There was a hilarious thread on our Village Facebook page about Ghosts last year.
Most common sightings either involved men taking a shortcut home across the allotments after a heavy Friday night in the pub and hearing voices, etc.. or women waking up to a strange man in their bedroom, again after a night in the pub.
Newsagent in a c16th building had a poltergeist & used to get right pissed and threw the stock around the shop at night.
FTFY
Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.
Why not?
I have never heard a convincing ghost anecdote or story. That's not to say I haven't heard a lot whose tellers were utterly convinced they'd had a paranormal experience. This includes close relatives and good mates. It's not that I don't believe that they think they experienced some kind of paranormal event, just that I think that's the least likely explanation. Some people seem predisposed to leap at that particular 'explanation' for unexplained stuff whereas others just think 'that was a bit strange' and shrug it off.
It's absolutely fine to not know why something has happened or to not have an immediate explanation for it. That doesn't mean it's ghosts, UFOs, pixies, fairies or leprechauns.
Most common sightings either involved men taking a shortcut home across the allotments after a heavy Friday night in the pub
PMSL! That is synchronous. Went for a drink in Bewdley one night with mate just over a week ago. I had the designated driver pull over on the way home so I could take a slash down off a dark footpath. V nearly progressed directly to offloading a No. 2 when I looked over my shoulder to see in the gloom what looked like a very thin skeletal-looking woman in white full-length dress (took a couple of shaky zoomed pics on my phone to show car-occupants in case they didn’t believe me)
The nearby, allotments, of course 😅
Despite my best efforts, the chain wouldn’t stay put and would either immediately settle securely onto the hook or fall off.
The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room
Or that the someone had previously (badly, probably accidentally) hung the picture by the back of it’s frame, rather than it’s chain. I’ve hung a lot of pictures over the years and even I’ve cocked it up a few times, fumbling around in a rush, thinking the hanging-wire/chain is engaged with hook, when it really is some rebate/gap/frame/staple just catching in the tip of the hook. Also, if the picture falls on a corner at a twist, the weight and velocity combined on the twisting corner can send it cartwheeling (or sliding) a surprising distance.
The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room.
‘rational’ doing some very heavy lifting (and a bit of throwing) there. That’s pretty much a textbook definition of irrational!
That was an irrational explanation.
Point missed gents. It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force to uplift it and transport it across the room. It clearly didn't float off the hook and go for a wee fly around the room by itself. What isn't rational is how such an external force could be applied to an inanimate object in an empty bedroom. That's the bit I have no explanation for and is what prompted me to contribute to the thread. The event didn't suddenly persuade me to believe in ghosts.
Sometimes it's worth thinking about the way these stories develop, and I hope I'm not being too mean using this as an example, but from a cynic's point of view..
I used to work at a place that was a WW2 airfield where they assembled Liberator bombers and took them on test flights.
In this country, or the US? They were built in the US and flown across, weren't they? Google suggests that they had 5 huge factories in the US, no mention of factories elsewhere. Would they have been built in the US then disassembled, shipped across the Atlantic and rebuilt and tested? Even if they were, I can't imagine a huge death rate in doing this.
There was a memorial to the aircrew that had perished there.
There are memorials to dead aircrew everywhere. They never died - or rarely - where the memorials are located.
The old hospital block was one of the few remaining buildings of that era, subsequently converted into offices.
Hospital block or sickbay? Again, not many people are likely to have died there, even if they had a full hospital block.
There's an ex WW2 airfield about 5 miles from here, flight crew war graves in a nearby church. There's a D-Day marshalling area nearby. Literally up the road there are Nissen shelters, the only remnants of a huge US camp that was a few hundred metres away. The main hospital for this area was originally for the US troops. There are ex WW2 facilities everywhere around the country. If even a fraction of these places were haunted, there'd be ghostly soldiers every few miles in the UK.
It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force to uplift it and transport it across the room.
Is it? Would boring gravity not suffice if, as suggested by p7eaven above, the picture had been hung precariously by the edge of the frame rather than the chain and simply fallen off and bounced? For example, other explanations may be possible. I'm sure we've all experienced that weird slow motion thing where we drop something fragile - glass or china, convinced it will shatter into a million pieces and it 'miraculously' bounces and remains intact?
(Playing the ball not the player)
It clearly didn’t float off the hook and go for a wee fly around the room
by itself.
FTFY
Point missed gents. It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force
Agreed.
Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.
Well as someone who has seen countless people die in front of me, it does. Well part from the energy of course which is returned to the soil or burnt.
It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force to uplift it and transport it across the room.
It is.
But it isn't rational to conclude that that's what happened therefore Ghosts, rather than as P7 suggested it was badly hung in a way you couldn't replicate plus gravity and momentum. Or as hinted previously, that the owner of a 250-year old guest house might have rigged up a prop to fuel a potentially lucrative narrative about their haunted house.
Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.
we to be fair their is no proof of soul and human energy is a result of metabolic function, so once the stops there is no energy, other than the inherent calorific value if we burn bodies for energy in an ERF.
Not sure I want to wade through three pages of this, but the answer is no.
The most scary thing about this thread is that it brings to mind possibly the worst lyric in history:
‘I’m afraid to see a ghost, it’s the sight that I fear most, rather have a piece of toast, watch the evening news.’
(shudders)
So you’re saying the unexplained event put the willies up her and you didn’t?
Thought this deserved recognition 👏
Low-hanging fruit.
I wonder if there are parallels here with the conspiracy thread and that graphic. It suggests that once someone is predisposed to believe in some of the more outlandish conspiracy theories, there is a tendency for them to believe them all. Believe in Qanon? You might like the flat earth, illuminati, Finland doesn't exist etc.
Is it the same with people who believe in the supernatural? If you come to the conclusion 'well ghosts, obviously' to explain something you've observed, does that mean fairies, unicorns, leprechauns etc. are also on the table? If not, why not seeing as the amount of proof for the existence of any of them is about the same?
Prior to disabling my hand a couple of weeks ago I was spending lots of evenings alone in the workshop.
Got jeebees a few times. Random clunking noises (pump truck with a dodgy seal), compressor hose twisting (change in air pressure), odd noises and flashing lights from the office (pinball machine left on) and radom figures standing in the shadows (drugs).
My very unnerving incident happened in a homeless unit in Nottingham. It was one of the older parts of the city, near to the goose fair area.
It's a house run by a Christian organization for homeless teens called Macedon. - Anyone from there the house is in a street called Forest Rd west.
Anyway. I got a place there and the room was one of two attic rooms, pretty small. The houses are quite big, over 3 or 4 floors. The attic rooms would be live in staff, nannies or the like.
First incident was i had an old fireplace in the room which had a board over it. I took the board away because it was quite nice and i was nosey. Started cleaning th ash from around it and had the feeling i didnt want anything else to do with this fireplace, it was giving me a bit of a chill, so I covered it back up again.
Incident that made me leave the house and go back to sleeping int he night shelter was i was lying in bed, and id pinned a lamp to the wall as a reading light, and was turned towards the wall reading one night and felt really cold. Top of the house, probably in spring so wasnt cold really, but i felt really cold.
Something happened to the blanket behind me at about shoulder level and I got a bit of a chill and began to feel a little scared. So I turned a bit, trying to recreate what had happened but couldnt and pretty much dismissed it.
Then something sat on the end of the bed.
I didnt see the mattress depress or anything, i felt it move right next to my feet and i leapt out of bed and out the room like shit off a hot tin shovel. It wasn't just a little movement and i wasn't moving so i know it wasnt something i did, it was something larger and the feeling was it depressed the bed quite a bit.
Outside as im heading down the stairs i met one of the other residents, a schizophrenic Jewish guy a bit older than me(I was 17) who said i was white as a sheet and obviously terrified. I explained what had happened, and he offered to say some Hebrew prayers which he did. Im in no way religious, and i readily agreed and he set about with whatever prayers Jews say in such things. Felt comforted by it.
Now I've slept in graveyards, forests, old buildings and basements of abandoned factories etc etc, by myself between the ages of 16-18 and never once felt uncomfortable. I'd say sleeping out you are very aware of sounds and many of these places are extremely quiet, with not a soul about.
No way i was going into that room again and certainly not to sleep.
Pretty much buggered off back to the street after that.
Very very strange and over the years I've thought about that incident, trying to make sense of and if it was something i did, and no it wasn't. I know for 100% something, or whatever pressed down on the end of that bed.
What if some horrific event (gruesome murder or the like) was enough to leave a sort of psychic "footprint" at a certain location that some people are more susceptible to experiencing?
I doubt it's the case but it's the only even vaguely plausible explanation of what we term "ghosts" that I've heard of.
I actually was a ghost in a previous incarnation, so I can assure you we do exist.
Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.
I'd like to say a thought I've had about this, mainly from a bit of research about death and dying.
We sat with my Father in his final hours and he was pretty much in a deep coma type of sleep from the drugs they give you in those last few days.
You stop breathing, but the mind continues for a while as it all shuts down. I think if in this situation with a loved one, mum,dad, whomever when the last breath has taken place, Do Not say, 'oh well that's it, or I think he/she is dead now' because the mind is still operating and can hear.
Being told you are dead I think the brain might become very very frightened and what you should do instead if you notice the passing is to say. 'You just have a little sleep now, we're going downstairs etc etc to have a coffee' and leave it for at least an hour before calling a nurse/doctor or whoever you need to call at the end of life to confirm it. Allow things to run a natural course and don't make final statements.
Just a thought. Yes I know its a deep coma they'll be in, but we know the mind is still operating for at least a while. I have read some instances of things dying people do that you don't expect them to do including trying to get out of bed. So there is operating at an unconscious level going on, and i think it best we don't interfere with it.
@dyna-ti. I am absolutely not downplaying what you have said and I believe you are genuine in what you think you experienced. However, Our minds and particularly the subconscious play tricks on the best of us, and create experiences which seem very vivid and real. Especially at those times of our lives when we are going through emotional turmoil or whatever.
I can certainly remember incidents in my childhood where I was terrified at night in bed and utterly convinced there was something under the bed, in the wardrobe etc. I can now rationalise that this was the overactive imagination of a slightly mixed up kid/teenager.
I don't know, but can imagine that being young, homeless and in a hostel in a strange city could be more than a little unsettling and even frightening at times? Is it possible that this could have contributed to your experiences?
No, i have a way of accepting things that happen, and tbh it was more of a big adventure for me. I acknowledge pretty dangerous at times, but it is only now,decades in the future i can accept the dangers. At the time i was oblivious to it.
It didnt bother me hitchhiking the length and breadth of Britain or sleeping in strange places or even at times being attacked or abused. I just accepted these things and got on with it.
If ghosts do exist then why be scared? What’s the worst they can do to you? Sit on your bed? Knock a picture off the wall?
What if some horrific event (gruesome murder or the like) was enough to leave a sort of psychic “footprint” at a certain location that some people are more susceptible to experiencing?
I doubt it’s the case but it’s the only even vaguely plausible explanation of what we term “ghosts” that I’ve heard of.
Yep. That's absolutely the most plausible explanation. "I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it." Gruesome psychic footprint fo sho, makes far more sense than a half-awake dream or a trick of the light or a flatmate's cat or someone's mind otherwise playing silly buggers. Watertight reasoning, I'm convinced.
It's easy to get spooked. It's easy for your mind to start running away with itself, more so when you're tired or otherwise influenced. It's easy to pattern-match and to retroactively marry up experiences with memories, we're naturally predisposed to it. Clear as day I remember pushing a pencil across the table with the power of my mind as a kid, anyone here think that actually happened? I don't.
Of course they're real, have you lot not watched Most Haunted?
Work as a scientist, and my answer is no
But, we used to live in a pretty old house, and my son, 5 ish at the time had a small childs bedroom. One evening he asked who the boy he'd seen standing in his room was
One way in which ghosts are different from man is that they can't whistle. Try as they might, the most they can muster is a rather feeble hiss. Perhaps it's because their lips are transparent and their tongues are see-through?
Why does no one ever see ghost ants?
Saw someone last month who did. Even showed me a clear hand vacuum he was using to suck them up. Predictably empty. The antipsychotics seem to have exorcised his house.
But, we used to live in a pretty old house, and my son, 5 ish at the time had a small childs bedroom. One evening he asked who the boy he’d seen standing in his room was
Did you explain to him how mirrors work?
Why do ghosts only haunt old houses? How old does a house have to be? Why don't ghost stories ever start "we used to live in a new-build and..."?
My previous house was built in the 1890s. This one likewise, next door is so old that it has a blue plaque (1600s I think). The adjoining garage forming the back wall of my yard is apparently "the old abattoir". By all rights I should be kept awake at nights by ghostly mooing and spectral cowbell.
Why do ghosts only haunt old houses? How old does a house have to be? Why don’t ghost stories ever start “we used to live in a new-build and…”?
Like ones buried on an old cemeteries.
Don’t feel the need to add to the debate. But do feel the need to share one of my favourite Most Haunted clips.
Why do ghosts only haunt old houses? How old does a house have to be? Why don’t ghost stories ever start “we used to live in a new-build and…”?
As the OP I have to tell you that our house was built in 1987 and we are the second ever occupants after the couple that bought it. They both died in this house.
This has just reminded me of a SF short story by the wonderful writer Theodore Sturgeon, an absolute master of inventive short stories. One in particular is called ‘The Haunt’, and centres around two lads setting up electronics in a rumoured haunted house, in order to crack the composure of a young lady with a famously unflappable personality. Things don’t go quite to plan. A couple more I love, ‘One Foot And The Grave’, and ‘Derm Fool’, but I encourage anyone who appreciates the short story form, combined with hugely entertaining storytelling to check him out.
As the OP I have to tell you that our house was built in 1987 and we are the second ever occupants after the couple that bought it. They both died in this house.
Oooh! I’ve seen that episode of Hammer House of Horrors. The House that Bled.
Haunted cowbell for Couger.
Yep. That’s absolutely the most plausible explanation. “I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.” Gruesome psychic footprint fo sho, makes far more sense than a half-awake dream or a trick of the light or a flatmate’s cat or someone’s mind otherwise playing silly buggers. Watertight reasoning, I’m convinced.
For whatever reason you're choosing not to understand what I said. Yes the vast bulk of ghost stories have a perfectly rational explanation such as practical jokes or the mind playing tricks. However if there was to be such a thing as a "ghost" then what I said was that the "psychic footprint" is the only explanation that to me sounds even slightly plausible. There's a lot about the human mind we still don't understand. I should add that I'm very sceptical about the theory but who knows what will be discovered as science progresses.
I used to live in a haunted house and would see ghosts regularly, and my daughter, 5 years old at the time, would have back and fore conversations with whatever they were.
They would respond to specific instructions, such as if we wrre talking about a photograph then that very same photograph would move off the top of the telly, and im talki g a good 7 feet horizontally, not topple over weakly, but be propelled with force linearly 7 or 8 feet til it hit a wall or furniture.
I would see them randomly, just going about their business, and they appeared as a humanoid form but looked as if tgey were made of mirage. Think of the scene in Predator where the creature is using cloaking technology and thats more or less exactly what they looked like. They would use doorways and climb the stairs, not just walk through walls like in films. Are they dead people? I never got that impression, they just seemed to be something sharing the same space as us but somehow differently. Just my take on it, who knows?
Some other tales I have are around family members dying.
First one occured the day after my fathers death. My brother, sister, mother and me were all sitting around late at night, reminiscing about tbe old fella. My sister always had very long, thick hair which took ages under the shower to wash, much to the annoyance of my father who had to pay the electricity bill. He would moan constantly about how long she took in the shower.
Trying to cast a bit of dark humour on the situation, I pointed out that it wasnt all bad, at least my sister could take as long as she wanted in the shower now. As I said it, the electric shower upstairs started to run with hot water, we all heard it and went upstairs to investigate. Never happened before or since. Who knows?
Second tale was when I got a paniced phone call from my wife one night when I was working nights, who informed me there was a ghost in the kitchen just doing the dishes. Not really, but acting out the movements, and it was her recently departed, dearly loved Grandmother. My next door neighbours commented that their dogs and mine, who lived outside, had been upset all night and the electric lighting downstairs had been going crazy for hours, they were worried the house had a fault and was going to burn down. A mix of grief and wishful thinking? Possibly, even probably, but this does not explain the electrical phenomena, again, never happened before or since.
There are quite a few more, almost always with witnesses so I can confidently discount psychosis or dreaming in these cases.
I have no idea what is going on, dont think its the spirits of the dead at all, but I believe what I have seen with my own eyes.
My other daughter, had a ghost sighting the week before last, she saw our deceased neighbour, a lovely old lady, smiling at her through her window opposite wearing a purple dressing gown.
My wife confidently told her that it wasnt possible as she didnt die in the house. Little did she know that I asked her son when he was emptying the house what happened to the lovely old lady, a month or so previously. Had a stroke in the night and hit her head on the ceramic bath, died in the bathroom. Wearing her purple dressing gown.
Asked her attached neighbour if he had a fire as we have seen smoke , thick smoke like coal fire not just gas boiler steam, regularly coming from their shared chimney pot. He doesnt even have a fireplace he told me, and he has witnessed (heard) things moving around her house through the walls for a few months now. House has been empty all this time.
There’s a lot about the human mind we still don’t understand.
Its not the human mind though but the physical environment which can be measured. Unless you are arguing for some unknown sense we have a very good idea of what inputs the human mind can have.
I have been freaked out on a couple of occasions and yeah it could have been a ghost but rather more likely something triggered my "what is that" and since it wasnt satisfactorily answered I freaked out.
One occasion on a ww2 airfield I got freaked the hell out and had to basically run away crying. I have been there many times previously and after and there has been nowt aside from that (aside from when the wildlife trust first introduced highland cows, damn that is scary when you first see this horned thing in the morning mist) so it could have been some ghostly pilot or it could have been some bat/late roosting bird which triggered my what is that but then didnt move enough for me to identify it. At which point my senses went into overdrive with the "well it could be a really sneaky ninja!" and kept reinforcing itself with damn this ninja is sneaky since i cant see them sneaking
Its like when doing a stag duty in the night and you suddenly see a figure but after an hour or so of pointing a rifle and thinking go on make a move the light improves enough for it to be a tree.
As per previous comment I met someone who claimed sensitivity but somehow didnt notice anything living in an area which was rather unpleasant even in the known history.
Yep. That’s absolutely the most plausible explanation. “I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.” Gruesome psychic footprint fo sho, makes far more sense than a half-awake dream or a trick of the light or a flatmate’s cat or someone’s mind otherwise playing silly buggers. Watertight reasoning, I’m convinced.
No actually Cougar you're not only wrong in your assessment, but swapping words about to make it sound like something its not is a bit unjust, perhaps even insulting.
“I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.”
First of all, He has the attic room opposite to mine, and as im running out the door he was coming up the stairs. I didnt tell him about the fireplace feeling, and only said to him when he asked me what was wrong that I felt something sat on my bed. I didnt expand beyond that.
Plus I didn't actually know he had schizophrenia at that time, nor would i have had any inkling what exactly that was aged 17.One of the other residents in the main HQ house told me a day later. Not that it mattered because i still didnt have a clue what it was.
And I wasn't half asleep, i was reading a book. Im not trying to convince you or anyone else, Im just recalling an incident relating to the subject matter of the thread, and quite frankly my dear, I think we both know I probably couldn't give a rats ass for your opinion one way or the other 😉 😆
Oooh! I’ve seen that episode of Hammer House of Horrors. The House that Bled.
Ohh I remember that one - I recall blood spluttering out of bath taps? The scariest one though was Two Faces of Evil...
t would be arrogant in the extreme to say with absolute certainty that we have an absolute understanding of all there is.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% "No" to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say "Yes"
People who discount stuff because we don't know enough about it or understand it yet are just limiting themselves within the boundaries of the human. Go back 200 years and people would not even be able to imagine the sort of stuff we know about today, can develop today etc,.
Go another 200 years into the future and things that people are discounting out of hand today will be well understood and explained.
However if there was to be such a thing as a “ghost” then what I said was that the “psychic footprint” is the only explanation that to me sounds even slightly plausible. There’s a lot about the human mind we still don’t understand. I should add that I’m very sceptical about the theory but who knows what will be discovered as science progresses.
So you're basically describing a thought experiment? These things don't exist, but if they did it must be because of something else that doesn't exist.
No actually Cougar you’re not only wrong in your assessment, but swapping words about to make it sound like something its not is a bit unjust, perhaps even insulting.
Point is, your story as presented likely has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don't know what that is. Concluding "must be ghosts" is one heck of a logic leap.
Point is, your story as presented likely has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is. Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.
Just up ?. slug-a-bed.
Not really mate, I did say in my earlier post that i thought these occurrences were more to do with residual energy rather than ghosts, in the classic term.
You really are being the aggressive cynic in this thread Cougar. Not just a matter of hmm, odd, not sure. Its a case of you're demanding these instances people have experienced did not happen. And that in no way could ever mean theres such a thing as a psychic experience.
Sure, it could be explained away as something to do with our own minds and how they work, though these things have been examined for centuries and nobody as yet has come up with any sort of answer beyond attempting to shout it down.
has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is.
Just can't help yourself can you. Always need to get some sort of dig in 🙄
My view is that we are elctro-chemical cell bags whose conciousness is down to said electro-chemical processes. When electro-chemical processes stop (death) conciousness ends.
Other views obviously exist.
Current neuroscience hypotheses are pointing to the brain being a prediction engine - Cambridge Summary from link - "Why is a child so much better at catching a moving ball than the most advanced robot? Why do we find unexpected or ambiguous language amusing? How are we so good at attending to the world around us, and yet fall for visual illusions and magic? Latest neuroscience research suggests that this is because the human brain is organised as a pyramid of neural processes that generate successively complex predictions about the future. In recent research from the CBU, led by Srivas Chennu, by measuring the brain’s electrical activity, we show that the information from our senses flowing through this predictive hierarchy is fundamentally altered by what we expect to perceive and what we attend to. Our findings argue that cognition, and ultimately our consciousness, is continually shaped not just by the external world, but also by our internal biases and past experience."
Or Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
In short, if you don't believe in ghosts and fall on the 'we just die' side of belief your personal prediction engine will never determine that ghost are a likely explanation for anything.
If you are bit more spiritual and aren't so sure about the nature of existence, or are in a dark place, or you are a teenager and your brain is all over the shop anyway, or somebody has primed you (funny how the OP knows about the deaths in their house) then your prediction engine may well conclude that there is something dodgy going on.
Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.
People do it all the time though, obviously.
I've posted about this before... there was a post on Stargazers Lounge a few years ago. Somebody reported seeing a very fast moving, bright object in the night sky at a particular time. Not a plane or helicopter, too fast for a satellite, etc. The poster gave the direction of movement and time, and concluded that it must have been a UFO because he'd ruled out everything else.
Within 5 minutes, the first reply was that it was the ISS, with a link to a website detailing times. etc. With just a tiny amount of research, this person could have found the actual explanation for his observation. (And found out who was on board, what they were doing, what they had for lunch, checked for any webcams, etc...)
But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”
But this is flawed because you're assuming that both standpoints have equal weight. Can I say "no" with 100% certainty regarding the existence of ghosts / UFOs / unicorns / god / Nessie / Russell's Teapot / the tooth fairy etc etc? Of course not. But I can say "no" beyond reasonable doubt.
People who discount stuff because we don’t know enough about it or understand it yet are just limiting themselves within the boundaries of the human.
Agreed, but I refer you again to the quote I posted. This doesn't mean we get to just make stuff up.
This argument again is flawed because the universe doesn't require our understanding. No-one of a scientific bent ever said "we don't understand that so it can't be possible."
Take homeopathy. Homeopaths may argue that just because we don't understand how it works doesn't mean we can dismiss it. And as far as it goes this is absolutely true. But what we can do is test their claims. Which is what we've done, many times, and demonstrated that its efficacy is akin to any other placebo treatment. At which point, proving "how it works" is simply begging the question and we're back to your man with his psychic footprints again.
It's good to have an open mind. But without a filter it's just an open drain that lets any old shit in.
You really are being the aggressive cynic in this thread Cougar.
For what it's worth, I'm not just being a hard-nosed cynic. Sceptic, certainly. I'm not just dismissing it offhand, I've looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine, I think it's fascinating. I've read all about UFOs, Kirlian photography, spontaneous human combustion, fairies at the bottom of the garden, ESP, and many other phenomenon including, yes, ghosts. Some of it still remains a mystery, but the vast bulk does not.
We have found atoms. We have found subatomic particles. We have found distant galaxies. We have, as yet, not found the slightest bit of credible evidence to suggest that there is any such things as ghosts beyond the caption on Fox Mulder's famous UFO poster.
Its a case of you’re demanding these instances people have experienced did not happen.
I'm not demanding anything. I'm sure it was very real to them. Still doesn't mean Ghosts.
And that in no way could ever mean theres such a thing as a psychic experience.
Because there isn't. Years and years of study has turned up precisely nothing other than hoaxes and fairy stories. Prove me / them wrong, you'll be very rich.
Just can’t help yourself can you. Always need to get some sort of dig in
I can't see why you think that's a dig. For the avoidance of any doubt, it wasn't intended as such.
You seem to be taking my posts personally. Please don't, I can assure you that I'm an equal opportunities sociopath and wish you no ill will.
But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.
But he did see a UFO as he couldn't identify it. Then it was identified as the ISS so it became a IFO 😉
I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine
😀 😀
But this is flawed because you’re assuming that both standpoints have equal weight. Can I say “no” with 100% certainty regarding the existence of ghosts / UFOs / unicorns / god / Nessie / Russell’s Teapot / the tooth fairy etc etc? Of course not. But I can say “no” beyond reasonable doubt.
I am not assuming equal weight at all but a No is a No. You also cannot say no beyond reasonable doubt as that is just your reasonable doubt which again is limited by your own understandings of what a human knows.
To me it is just a lack of imagination. For example, of course there will be life of some sort somewhere else in the universe but it may not ever be found by the technologies humans have. We may, say, test for water as all life has to come from that but that is just limiting it with what we think we know. Any testing/searching is immediately hamstrung by the narrow minds and boundaries of the people involved.
I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine
My wife used to be a designer for them 🙂
You seem to be taking my posts personally. Please don’t, I can assure you that I’m an equal opportunities sociopath and wish you no ill will.
Thats good to hear. Again.
I'll take it your use of the word 'pedestrian' was implied as a noun and not an adjective .
.
Everyone has the right to be skeptical. Not faulting anyone for that.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”
And exactly the same statement applies to werewolves, pixies, invisible Tetley tea men dancing on your kitchen table or anything else you might want to imagine.
I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine
😀 😀
To be clear, what I meant was,
When I was younger, I was fascinated with it all. Then when I was a little older I 'did my research,' at libraries and then later with the web. I'm not holding up The Unexplained as a bastion of proof but rather as an example that my point of entry was always "how does that work?" rather than just ignorant / cynical dismissal. Today I'm sceptical but it's a position I've arrived at rather than started from.
I’ll take it your use of the word ‘pedestrian’ was implied as a noun and not an adjective .
I meant "less supernatural" and was reaching for the correct word. Mundane? Practical? It's on the tip of my brain.
To be clear, what I meant was.......,
Yeah, was obvious. But funny at the same time. 😉
I am not assuming equal weight at all but a No is a No. You also cannot say no beyond reasonable doubt as that is just your reasonable doubt which again is limited by your own understandings of what a human knows.
Sure I can. I mentioned it earlier, see Russell's Teapot. I cannot state with absolute certainty that there isn't (say) a cheese and ham toastie in orbit around Jupiter. I can however state beyond reasonable doubt that there isn't.
To me it is just a lack of imagination.
We can all likely imagine plenty of things. Right now I'm imagining Eliza Dushku lying in my bed, lightly oiled. I cannot say with 100% certainty that she isn't there, but I believe beyond reasonable doubt that were I to pop into the next room and check I would be sadly disappointed.
Just because we can imagine something doesn't automatically grant it credibility, you have to balance imagination with reason. If I'd had an email at the weekend from Ms D saying she'd be round on Wednesday, that would change the odds a little.
But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.
A while back I was coming back in from a ride at dusk and saw some weird stuff in the distance. Looked like fireworks but they were looping round each other in a way which would be impossible for normal fireworks.
Once I got home started googling and there just happened to be a fireworks "competition" (aka display) going on at the local stately home and part of it included drones. Problem solved even if less exciting than aliens.
I used to live in an old mansion House in Aberdeenshire. It was split into four apartments - one on each floor- plus a cottage on the end. I lived on the top floor.
The ground floor neighbour worked offshore. Month on, month off. He told me the place was haunted when I moved in. I found that interesting but not spooky.
Anyway, the first week after we'd moved in, we heard someone walking around in the flat below. All night. It sounded like big, hobnail boots on a wooden floor. The two middle floors were holiday homes and I was able to ascertain from both owners that nobody was in occupancy at the time. The ground floor neighbour was offshore. We heard the "ghost" many times over the years. Just walking around in the night.
The ground floor was different. They had two sightings. A dark figure wearing a hood. One was in a bedroom where a female guest was staying. It suddenly felt freezing cold in the room and she looked up to see the figure standing over the bed. The other was my neighbour sitting on the sofa with the log burner blazing but, again, it suddenly felt freezing cold and he saw the hooded figure sitting at the other end of the sofa. (He was drunk at the time though)
The house had burnt down and been rebuilt in the late 19th century and a young girl had died in the fire. The neighbours in the end cottage apparently saw an apparition of a young girl in a nightdress on the stairs a few times.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”
When I say "no", it's shorthand for "I can't prove a negative, but their existence is vanishingly unlikely so I choose to live my life on the basis that they don't exist. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so it's up to the claimants to prove their existence, not me to prove they're wrong."
How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?
How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?
Because when people think of ghosts they automatically think of fictional ghosts, and spooky tales told about stately homes to draw in the tourists, etc. There have been plenty of stories shared on this thread that are not Victorian, MR James style stories. (Whether you choose to believe them or not is another point..)
the sofa with the log burner blazing but, again, it suddenly felt freezing cold and he saw the hooded figure sitting at the other end of the sofa.
I experience that all too often, it’s my eldest leaving the living room door open and sitting down in her Ooodie.
Ghost believer? Not really definite either way but I like a good ghost story. Weird stuff has happened to me over the years I can't explain no matter how much logic I throw at it.
But here's the thing. Right or wrong, I guess we're all going to find out at some point.
