[Closed] Getting older musings - Dishwashers - why?

unloading where you find out all the stuff you have to wash again

you loaded it wrong.

people dont take enough care with how they load. They leave things in the way of the spinner, they put "blocking" crockery that prevents water spray hitting the surface of the dish properly etc etc.

DW are great things. They use less water (and so less energy) than equivalent sink washing.

never had one and wouldn't know how to use one if I did

completely pointless

Grandad? Is that you?

I know how to use one, I know how to stack one. Maybe if they did use as much water as hand washing they might do as good a job.

There are so many cooking items which need physical action against the surface to clean them which a DW just can’t do.

Grandad? Is that you?

Yes it is - can you pop out and get me some Werthers? 😀

I'm with the OP on this. The one we have at work is rubbish, and no one loads it or unloads it. Why not wash your on things, is it that hard?

The same at home. Take 15-20 minutes to wash and dry, maybe longer after Christmas dinner. Are we all that busy we can't manage that?

They're great, when we had our kitchen done years ago, I insisted we get one. Come in from work late and knackered make and have dinner chuck it all in the dishwasher, who wants to mess around when a machine will do the job overnight? Presumably you do your laundry at the local stream to stick with your Luddite tendencies? 😉

Need to change your name OP..

”Oldrobdob”

HTHs.

bloody good for cleaning cassettes though

I have to rewash something maybe once a month.

Sounds like your friends had a crap dishwasher and/or didn't know how to stack it properly

I can sort of appreciate the original comments as yes they are not great at removing some areas of dirt and grime, but they were never intended to.

Baked on crap needs a scrub first, just as it would need a 'soak' or scrubbing if you were washing it by hand - thus not being just a regular rinse with a hot soapy cloth and left to rinse / pass to the dryer upper.

Dishwashers for me are a god send at the end of a family meal. Sunday lunch and load 4 servings worth in whilst we all do something else instead of spending half an hour slaving over a sink.

However they do seem to get misused somewhat through bad loading and not enough care over what is put in. So much so that on the 3 we've had so far in 20 years, I've always had to take them apart at some point and clean out the water plastic maze thing that gets crudded up.

Can count on 1 hand the number of items I’ve had to re-wash in the last year or so. Must have.

If I come in late the last thing I want to do is cook a meal, let alone wash up. Quick sandwich (one plate, one knife and a mug). Simple.

Maybe it's down to the type of tablet used ..?

Never too many problems in terms of the finished article being clean but we just accept that pans will need to be washed in the sink ..my biggest bug bear is the length of time it takes to get a full load prior to switching on and then worse still ..putting everything away ..

I could live without it ..

User error.

My wife insists on cleaning the plates before they go in.  I’ve given up arguing.

Lidl Ultra tablets voted top by Which FWIW., and cheap.

never had one and wouldn’t know how to use one if I did

completely pointless

I used to think like this, until I got one. Now I think they're brilliant. Its a magic cupboard isn't it? Dirt stuff goes in, clean stuff comes out.

Lidl Ultra tablets voted top by Which FWIW.

I thjnk they were the ones we were using.

I’m with the OP.

I wonder if I’ve had my mind made up by a bad first impression because my mum was an early adopter and the one we had in the 90s was crap.

I’d like fans to tell me if it’s different these days but.

Arrive in kitchen with armful of dirty dishes. Scrape each one into the food bin fair enough, but you also have to give them a quick rinse to remove bits of sauces etc because otherwise you’re done for.

Open dishwasher, because of their size the breakfast stuff will still be in there because it’s too big to justify washing them on their own, but equally not quite big enough to have the dinner things and breakfast things in at the same time. Rearrange 3 times till it all fits knowing full-well that a few things won’t clean properly because of they’re touching something else ‘because lazy’.

90 mins later it’s done and they’re ‘dry’ well they say dry but they’re not really, open door, full kitchen with clouds of steam that either smell of a slightly off cocktail of everything you’ve eaten that day or sickly  ‘lemon’ designed by someone whose only seen a lemon in pictures and guessed what it smelt like. Leave another 30 mins to dry again.

Remove all the dishes, separating the ones you missed a bit on the pre-rinse phase which now has dried food super heat treated and welded onto it. Put the 80% that are clean (but a bit smelly) away.

Add the 20% left to the sink along with any glasses (unless you don’t mind replacing them every other week) and let them soak overnight to try to free the dried food off.

Oh and then clean the filter.

I’ve had 3 over the last 20+ years and they’ve always seemed to be a lot of hard work to be lazy.

Wash as you go FTW!

Much more effective if you let a dog run a pre-wash cycle.

When you've got a family of 5, often eating differnet things at different times they work well - dirty stuff gets stacked in there, and stays there till it pops out clean.

Biggest issue is glasses getting properly cleaned and the odd thing that really needs attacking - but if it saves me 90% of the time spent at the sink whilst actin as additional crockery storage is worth the money. It's probably cheaper than a kitchen unit anyway 😀

The same at home. Take 15-20 minutes to wash and dry, maybe longer after Christmas dinner. Are we all that busy we can’t manage that?

With a family at least its 15-20 mins 3 times a day though. Also easier discipline to get the kids to stack directly (bar a bit of fussing on my part re: spoon tessellation)

Yes OP, if you have time to write that much about dishwashers just before 8am on a Monday morning, then you are old.

Reading this has made me realise that the detractors of Dishwashers must use these two words fairly constantly in their vocabulary..

"new"

&

"fangled"

Modern dishwasher beats hand washing for us.

For a start they can reach temps that you can't touch. Second drying on ours is awesome. Fast eco wash is 25 mins and works perfectly 95% of the time.

I've no interest in washing pots when i could be on to something else.

Like the guy above, once a month it may clean one pot imperfectly.

It's like getting on a cheap bike and saying they're all rubbish.

Do you hand wash your clothes?

meh, had one in the house as a kid, but I never got one when I moved out, have since bought two houses that came with them but we never used them, so in both houses after 3-6 months of ignoring them we removed them.

Wash up as you go along, quicker, easier and need less stuff 🙂

Things might change with a big family, but that's a different scenario, definitely not as useful as a washing machine or tumble dryer, and some people get by without them.

Slimline dishwasher for a one person household here and it's used every 24 hours, it's brilliant.  Saucepans tend to be done by hand.  I make both my own dishwasher powder and dishwasher cleaner.  In my other life with kids at home and considerably more cooking done it was a necessity.

I know how to use one, I know how to stack one. Maybe if they did use as much water as hand washing they might do as good a job.

Doesn't sound like it, or you wouldn't have issue with it not cleaning stuff, but no there not going to shift baked on stuff, but neither is washing them up by hand without soaking or investing so long in scrubbing, that soaking would have been a better option. I wouldn't be without one, as I'm not wasting my life washing up thanks, but if it make you happy to feel your better than they rest of us lazy ppl, go for it.

but you also have to give them a quick rinse to remove bits of sauces etc because otherwise you’re done for.

Nope, not in my experience. We got one when we had a new kitchen fitted, 2 years ago, I wasn't really bothered about getting one, but it's great, meant we could do away with the draining board too so more usable space on the worktop.

Small family of 3 here, and it gets filled and used once a day, usually put it on straight after dinner, then I unload and put away just before bed when her indoors is doing all those mad beauty routine things that women do every night. Did a shit load of cooking yesterday, all this weeks breakfast muffins made, wife made a pot of chilli, I made a chicken pie for tea and 2 days work lunches done as well, only thing I hand washed was the pie dish and the silicon muffin tray, I can handle that.

My only annoyance with it is that plastic tubs don't flash off the water the way plates etc do, so have to be dried, but everything else just gets put away. We use a fair amount of plastic tubs as well, 3 lunches a day, hey ho.

As said above, it's all about the stacking.

*goes off to start thread about pointless dropper posts*

I was with the OP (my grandmother had an old one, always seemed more trouble than it was worth when visiting) but more recently we inherited one in a house move and despite being initially sceptical, it is regularly useful. All the standard plates and cutlery go in and about once or twice a week it gets switched on (with a short initial rinse because stuff dries on). I still do the pots and pans and odds and ends but only occasionally rather than every meal or two and it saves a lot of effort.

I don't have one myself (live alone so not much point) but my parents have had them for 30+ years, they've always cleaned really well. All you need is a quick run under a tap if there's food still on the plate but certainly don't need to pre-wash stuff. I always used to argue with my brother over whose turn it was to empty it but in the scheme of things it def saves a lot of effort. As a kid I always liked sticking my face in the cloud of hot steam you get when you open it shortly after a wash, I guess I was easily amused though.

I imagine most workplace dishwashers are  budget models so maybe that's the issue (although the ones where I work seem OK and they'd def be the cheapest they could find...). Some lazy shites I work with though just leave their cups in the sink (someone put a funny poster up along the lines of dish-washing fairies do not exist but I think management took it down). Our security guard has the job of loading/unloading it (it's probably a welcome distraction from watching iPlayer :p ).

RobDob... Am I right in guessing you're Peter Poddy's brother, right?

DrP

Mostly agree. I don't have one (well apart from the other half obviously) but there's just the 2 of us in a smallish house and they take up so much room. I can see why a family with young kids and a nice big kitchen would have one though.

I agree there really is no need for one.

Washing up is a faff but not as much as a Dishwasher.

First you have to navigate the modes

Buy salt and keep it topped up

Buy tabs

Load it

wait about an hour

Unload it (possibly soaking you or the floor due to a cup being up the wrong way)

Washing up, bit of liquid, 10-15 mins of activity and its done and away.

I put folk who can't load a dishwasher in a way that avoids all the hassle in the same category as those who find Presta valves too fragile, can't fit a tyre and lack the coordination to operate a front mech.....

.... likely the first to be bitten come the zombie apocalypse.

but there’s just the 2 of us in a smallish house and they take up so much room

Got a half sized one, small compact and really useful, just load everything and set it going in the morning, done by the time I get home and dishes ready to use that evening, great for water bottles too, quick rinse of stuff under the tap as I pack it and it's away. No rewash no hassle.

so im the only one that arrives at the kitchen , scrapes most of the food scraps into the bin and lobs it in the dishwasher (packed correctly)

returns a couple hours later and its clean?

seems theres all sorts of rituals about pre cleaning and all sorts.... no need to be precious - it only has one job you just have to stack it right !

have had a dishwasher since 92 - the same one for nearly 20 of those years. - moved to a  rental house with no room for one and suffered the pain of washing dishes by hand for 2 years  - which is fine when its just two ... but a 3 course meal for 4 killed me and i vowed it would be the first thing id buy in our next house

its a thumbs up from me ,

Much more effective if you let a dog run a pre-wash cycle.

agreed. Both our dogs seem to think that the DW is some sort of vending machine.

Baked on crap needs a scrub first,

I find ours to be exceptional at dealing with this. When we moved into a house with a DW our glass casserole dishes suddenly became much shiner than we'd ever managed by hand. Ditto soot on the bottoms of pans.

so im the only one that arrives at the kitchen , scrapes most of the food scraps into the bin and lobs it in the dishwasher (packed correctly)

Nope, me too.

What's this filling it with salt caper? is this an English hard water thing???

35 minute eco wash here.

"Life's too short to spend washing up at the sink" said this dishwasher convert.

This thread needs a Hora to finish it off..

I put folk who can’t load a dishwasher in a way that avoids all the hassle in the same category as those who find Presta valves too fragile, can’t fit a tyre and lack the coordination to operate a front mech…..

Well I’m none of those, I’ve built and restored loads of bikes, restored the house I live in myself including fitting the kitchen and bathroom amongst hundreds of other things. I have internet controlled lighting and heating etc etc.

Im sorry but I’ve used 3 or 4 different dishwashers now and they are all the same - Bosch ones at work, other quality brands elsewhere. None of them got rid of baked on stuff or porridge bits, they ruin glasses and are generally crap even when they are loaded lightly. Lightly used plates and mugs are fine.

Ive also used commercial dishwashers a fair bit and that introduces another question - how come they only take 60 seconds to clean stuff and the home ones take 1-2 hours minimum?

Because they throw loads of water and power at the job - not realistic for domestic duties, but of course there's nothing stopping you getting one.

They use less water (and so less energy) than equivalent sink washing.

I've often seen this stated. However, I presume once the energy consumption and environmental costs of manufacturing the dishwasher plus the end of life disposal/recycling costs are included, that dishwashers are nowhere near as environmentally better than handwashing as they are advertised, and possibly are much worse.

 I make both my own dishwasher powder and dishwasher cleaner.

Interested, Cinnamongirl, what do you use?

they are not great at removing some areas of dirt and grime

What's the difference between dirt and grime?

Have you got one of those fridge things op or do you still use the cold shelf in the pantry?

Im sorry but I’ve used 3 or 4 different dishwashers now and they are all the same – Bosch ones at work, other quality brands elsewhere. None of them got rid of baked on stuff or porridge bits, they ruin glasses and are generally crap even when they are loaded lightly. Lightly used plates and mugs are fine.

I make no special efforts beyond scraping food off plates, yet I don't seem to have any of the problems you experience.

Dishwashers work by using surfactants, bleach and corrosive alkalis to clean, the spraying water action is minimal. Hand washing uses mechanical action and surfactants, so is more environmentally friendly, gives desk-jockeys much-needed exercise and teaches humility and the virtues of hard work. Your choice.

Hand washing uses mechanical action and surfactants, so is more environmentally friendly,

It's well accepted that water & energy use is lower in the dishwasher than hand washing, that is also assuming you wash it all in one go rather than several small washes through the day.

Obligatory link to oatmeal dishwasher comic:  http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dishwasher

My wife couldn't load a dishwasher to save her life, she is banned from even trying now. As the only person who ever does any washing up in our house, whilst I don't mind it all that much, after many years of doing it all by hand I prefer having a machine to not having one.

Wash as you go FTW!

Bingo.

Takes two mins.

The uses less water argument seems to be bollocks as well. A quick google suggests I could be using 27 gallons of water. That's three firkins!!!

I could do the entire street's washing up before my taps could produce anywhere near that much water.

I can only assume that argument was dreamed up by dishwasher manufacturers, like coffee producers suggesting there is more caffeine in tea.

Also, dishwashers are massive. Do people run them half empty all the time? Or do they leave dishes festering for days? Eughh! Minging!

Live on my own, but absolutely hate washing up, so I wouldn't be without a dishwasher. Most used appliance in my kitchen after the kettle! Sometimes just dump plates etc in there over a 3 day period and wash when it's full.

Standing in front of a sink, carefully stacking stuff in an unsuitable rack, rinsing, drying.. that's for 1940s housewives, I thought.

Bingo.

Takes two mins.

Real or imagined? 2 mins per what? Per plate, per was, per random number of dishes between 1 and some?

How much water do you use to do 3 or 4 washes per day? How do you measure it?

Im sorry but I’ve used 3 or 4 different dishwashers now and they are all the same

Cool, so they're not for you, best of luck*

*Files NRD in with TJ and all the others who need to educate everyone that their way is indeed the best way...

Have you got one of those fridge things op or do you still use the cold shelf in the pantry?

Have you got the ability to read what I’ve posted?

Files NRD in with TJ and all the others who need to educate everyone that their way is indeed the best way…

I originally asked why people use them as in my experience they are no better, and in a couple of ways worse than hand washing. I’d like to educate some people on the value of reading things though. 😉

@Gunz - I understand that commercial dishwasher tablets contain sodium silicate which rinses away food and soap deposits and is completely soluble in water.  One can't however buy this.  Home-made dishwasher powder does not give a shiny finish to crockery but this doesn't bother me.  I use borax, soda crystals, citric acid, salt and essential oil and if you'd like the recipe just ask.

To clean dishwasher fill 2 dishwasher safe bowls with about 250ml white vinegar.  Place one in the middle of top rack and one in the middle of bottom rack.  Obviously nothing else should be in dishwasher.  Run on the hottest wash.

I buy everything in bulk cos I make loads of other stuff too, latest is loo cleaner and hard floor wash.

I wouldn't be without one.

Ours is a relative cheap but well regarded Zanussi washer, and when combined with the cleaning power of the cheapest Aldi tablets does a brilliant job. Pretty much never have to wash anything afterwards, unless my wife loads it and jams the spinny thing with a big spoon.

Even my wife, who used to be very anti dishwasher, is totally converted. We moved from a house that had one to one without. It took 4 weeks until she demanded we get one.

I know how to use one, I know how to stack one.

Obviously not, or your dishes would come out clean like mine do.  You do realise that there's a pre-soak button to press if you've got dried on food, don't you?

We hardly ever rinse anything, and still our stuff comes out pretty clean unless someone's stacked it wrong or a utensil has slipped below the cage and stopped a sprayer from turning.  Ours broke a few weeks ago and I had to wait about ten days for a part, so we hand washed.  I can confirm it was much more work.

Glasses etc come out pretty clean too.  I CAN get the glasses sparkling clean, but it takes fresh hot water, lots of careful wiping and a second rinse, which means more time and water.

The uses less water argument seems to be bollocks as well. A quick google suggests I could be using 27 gallons of water.

Lol, you didn't think to try a bit harder with that improbable figure?  I love how people on this thread are totally sure that everyone in the modern world is a total idiot and has been utterly duped, and only they are the special clever ones.

Our dishwasher uses 14l of water and about 1 kWh.  The best new ones are about 9l of water.  Try washing a whole day of dishes for 4 in 9l of water, see how you get on.

Anybody use one of those new fangled automatic washing machines?

I don't see the point and I think the rot set in when they brought out those top loading twin tubs.

What's wrong with an outdoor copper and a mangle?  It gives you a bit of exercise and teaches you the humility of hard work.

It’s well accepted that water & energy use is lower in the dishwasher than hand washing,

This is a bit of an urban myth, your average dishwasher uses 6 gallons of water per cycle.  If you compared 8 place settings washed in a dishwasher with 8 place setting rinsed and then washed under a running tap then yes, the dishwsher uses less water BUT who washes up under a running tap???????????

Files NRD in with TJ and PP and all the others who need to educate everyone that their way is indeed the best way…

Chuckle! There's a (toungue in cheek) reason why I ask if he's PP's brother...!!!!
(You know I love you really Pete!)

DrP

This is a bit of an urban myth, your average dishwasher uses 6 gallons of water per cycle.

Don't think this is true.  14l according to my manual.

What’s wrong with an outdoor copper and a mangle?  It gives you a bit of exercise and teaches you the humility of hard work.

All this washing is a modern fad! Really you need to build up a proper good stink to keep the demons of disease and pestilence away, everyone knows that.

I am sure you guys will come up with loads of other figures to argue against this but the point of what I’m about to say is that “don’t believe what you read”. I know this might sound a bit Jivehunny but let’s look at those figures which suggests dishwashers use less water shall we? Hopefully it might sound a bit more Dave Gorman than conspiracy theory…..
Web page sponsored by Finish dishwasher tablets:
“Lab studies* found that washing up a full dishwasher-load by hand (12 place settings) took on average 60 minutes and 49 litres of heated water. An average dishwasher uses as little as 12 litres to do the same job, taking only 9 minutes to load and unload.”
*The “Lab Studies” is a report called “Manual dishwashing habits: an empirical analysis of
UK consumers”

The washing up they used in the study was “12 standard place settings of tableware, each composed of a dinner plate, a soup bowl, a bread and butter plate, a saucer, a cup, a glass, a fork, a knife, a soup spoon, a dessert spoon, a tea spoon and additional serving pieces.” So these are all the items which a dishwasher is good at cleaning. No frying pans/cooking dishes/baking trays etc. They could easily put those items in the most eco wash and they’d come out clean. Who uses 12 place settings with bread plates and saucers but nothing to cook the food in? And who takes 60 minutes to wash a load of dishes? Those dishes they have used in the test could all be washed in one bowl of hot water which is nowhere near 49 litres. An Addis butler bowl (bigger than a normal sink washing up bowl) holds 23 litres to the brim.

At the end of the report it says “The authors would like to thank Reckitt Benckiser Ltd and BSH Home Appliances Ltd for supporting this research.”. Oh really?? Reckitt Bensicker Ltd are a consumer goods company, the only product they sell which might be used in the washing dishes process is Finish. So they reference a report they paid for which then suggests using machines which need their products are better? What a coincidence…
Who are BSH Home appliances Ltd? It’s the “is the largest manufacturer of home appliances in Europe “ with brands such as Bosch, Siemens, Gaggenau and Neff. Well I never…
Interestingly on the same page there is a “savings calculator”. Even if you put the lowest numbers in (1 person cooking 1 meal a week which needs washing up) there is still savings to be made (3.7 hours, 156 litres and 1.73 kwH of electricity apparently!). So there is no way handwashing could save anything according to them. Wow!

8 place setting rinsed and then washed under a running tap then yes, the dishwsher uses less water BUT who washes up under a running tap???????????

I might wash using a single bowl of water but I always rinse under a running tap rather than a single bowl otherwise I am rinsing in dirty water ?

Regarding hand-washing - why do some people not rinse stuff before putting it on the draining board? If I wanted my cornflakes to have a hint of fairy liquid I'd add it to the milk thanks!

Also I seem to be in the minority that insists on running water when doing the dishes, not a sink full of water that gets dirtier and dirtier - am I reckless with my environmental responsibilities?...

theres nothing quite like a glass of nice fresh water from the well with eau de fairy .....

I'm not apologising for my laziness newrobdob!

 let’s look at those figures which suggests dishwashers use less water shall we? 

No. I wouldn't care if my dishwasher used a whole bathtub full every time.

The uses less water argument seems to be bollocks as well.

My dishwasher uses 10 litres on the eco cycle and I can get three loads of washing up in it (breakfast, lunch and dinner). That's for a family of four.

If you're able to wash the same amount up by hand and use less water, then that's because you are disgusting.

I'm sure all those professing anecdotes over measurements know the capacity of their sink and tap flow rates

File dishwashers under 29ers and auto/dsg cars, everyone  dislikes them until they've used one.

I like a bit of modern stuff. Living off the grid not for me.

I've solved the problem of needing a dishwasher by having three children.

Most of the dishes in the house do not require washing as they're currently hiding under beds or concealed beneath piles of clothes.

User error, or more likely, too mean to buy one.

I put stuff in, it comes out clean and dry.

Reading the OP, I’m assuming the fault lies with them or a poorly working dishwasher.

Probs the OP!

Woah there!

There's obviously a lot of people who give far more of a shit about washing up than I do.