[Closed] Getting car costs down... 🙁

That’s 40p per mile. Does that include buying the cars and depreciation?

Mine works out at 41.6 a mile for all costs, based on the 25k miles I did last year
(18 plate Audi A6).

My new gig is commutable by train which is going to reduce costs significantly.

If you can, start saving to buy future ones with cash. Too many parties involved in modern car financing, all wanting their slice of your hard-earned.

Luckily and perhaps unusually(?) we are a one car family. My monthly spend for my railcard is £70 and I think we pay around £300 per month for the car: the car is a couple of years old, with a small loan on it and we don't drive big distances at all

Does that include buying the cars and depreciation

Struggling to include depreciation as the loan payments are more than depreciation, but cars are not assets imo. I've included the loan costs.
Arguably the cost per year will go down if we sell at some point.

About £3.5k to do about 12,000 miles, at a guess. Perhaps a touch more but I don't monitor fuel spend and consumption.

Purchased the vehicles outright about six years ago so that cost is amortized now.

I spend another £1.3k on trains, roughly.

Just done the maths and we are a little more, just shy of £14k, 2 nice cars on pcp’s and total combined mileage of just under 30k. I do get a car allowance which covers almost half the spend mind you.

As much as we've missed having a car for ~8 years for doing localish visits to places on days off work; a couple of visits a year to see family; weekly bulk shopping etc. , most of its use was simply commuting me ~50 miles a week back then... Which probably takes me no longer these days and I feel much better for cycle commuting instead!

Annually paying ~£200 VED; ~£250 insurance; ~£750 fuel; ~£50 MOT + replacements etc. would massively reduce our disposable income. I'd rather have our spring midweek Center Parcs annual hol, my road bike and turbo plus a bit of savings!

Also work out how many hours/days you’ve spent driving (I used a conservative 30mph average figure)

Car bought for £900. No depreciation.
Fixed costs (tax & insurance) are £600 a year.
Other costs are fuel & maintenance (only consumables - tyres, oil, filters and brakes).

Annual mileage is around 5000, which is about £1000 a year in fuel (big car, big powerful motor). At those mileages the consumables last about 5 years).

So about £1700 a year for me.

So, I dunno.... Drive less and in an old car? My car is 15 years old but a nice place to be and drive (Saab 95 aero)...

As above - older car. Repair costs are still fair less than new car costs.

Buy a 2nd hand car for cash.

Maintain it at a good indy garage

Cheapest way to car ownership

Or buy a 300snotter run till dead weigh in and repeat

Buy a 2nd hand car for cash.

Maintain it at a good indy garage

Cheapest way to car ownership

is the right answer. ive got a cost neutral company car at the mo, but had a 57 octy before. cost me next to nowt over the 6 years i had it luckily.
wife drives a cash-bought 06 nissan note (jap/petrol, apparently the cheapest combo to maintain), drives around 5,000 miles per year, just had it serviced at the local indy. service plus a replacement of the back of the exhaust was £120 all in! tax and ins relatively cheap too, so its a no-brainer for her (fingers crossed).

Buy a 2nd hand car for cash.

Both are 2012 /13 cars. We own one outright, the other on a loan for less than it is worth. I am the king of keeping costs down. For example, the new discs and pads have been bought last month in a massive sale and the indy garage will fit them the week before the MOT.

I wouldn't have the bigger/newer car if I hadn't been doing 25k a year for the last 6 years. It does seem daft to sell it to only buy a bangernomics car now...?

Insurance costs are high with an 18 year old and about to be 17 year old...

My milage has fluctuated between 30k and 3k over the last few years! So this is a but if an average.

40mpg of petrol means 15p/mile of petrol. Say 12000 miles, £1800

Tax £220

Depreciation £0 (realistically its at the stage where its worth 'something' but that fluctuates based on how long the mot is).

Insurance £300

Mot £50

Repairs, tyres, brake pads, servicing £200 (averaged).

So about £2600 per year, 22p/mile.

Getting that down would be nerve wracking or difficult. I could swap to a more complex diesel, but at circa 140,000 miles that would potentially offsetting the big fuel number (perhapse reducing it by £600 at 65mpg?) But theres a high likelihood that the repair bill goes up and the capital expenditure feeds into the depreciation.

N.b even if you averaged if over my entire ownership depreciation is only £500/year over 8 years. That's only adding 4p/mile.

Basicly if you want to halve your costs, buy a cheaper car and keep it a long time. Staying on the Pcp bandwagon with a leather seated german whip (to quote one of the pleothora of shit rap songs about ****ing german cars of the past few years) is the mugs game bit.

Around £2200/month for 2 vehicles, 1 driver 😭😂

One is used for work though and the costs covered by the business.

Make the total £5100/month if you add in the other 2 work vans - they are hire vans though 😬

I should really reduce that

Ohh and the best bit of cheap car ownership and high milages was doing daft things like a return kit delivery to ft William, and making £400 profit at 45p/mile.

That car has paid for itself in 45p's four or five times over. Thats sensible car economics treating it as an asset. As soon as you start talking about newer and nicer, or any letters after the numbers bit in the model name, thats when its costing you money.

Zetec (alloy wheels and a heated screen, phwoarrr) 2006 1.6 Cmax.

19.1p a mile
This includes mot, tax, ins, fuel, servicing, tyres and an arbitrary but second highest weekly cost for wear and tear and depreciation
2.4td estate 52mpg, me doing spanners

My last car I reckoned worked out around 40p / mile (very very loosely). That was Saab 900S, bought s/h, and run into the ground over the next 12/3 years until it was sold for scrap. Not sure but I reckon a standard make/model, and sell before costs get too high, would help. But does seem likely to be ballpark figure.

Depreciation doesn't exist until you actually need to sell it.

It's hypothetical at best.

People delude them selves that it's ok because it's still worth X and they will always get a chunk of their money back

Then some nugget crashes into them and insurance says it's only worth a much smaller X.

There's a whole segment of the finance industry based on convincing you your cars worth more than it is so you buy another.

I always work on it being worth zero by the time I'm finished with it...after all I wouldn't "upgrade" my washing machine for the sake of it like some folk do with cars. The car is just a tool.

Basic cars , small cars , run over long periods. Minimal electrics, don't change it because your bored, fix small noises/warning lights before they become costly issues

My old white van was in the region of 20p a mile over its life span.

The wife's Peugeot is much higher per mile at the moment but next year it'll be paid off and on 40k. So should be another 6-8 years to balance the books.

For math

Year 1 including entire purchase , mot , tax , fuel , insurance and winter tire set up.

It was 80 pence a mile In year 1

Year 2 it was 47 pence a mile

Year 3 it'll be 36 pence a mile assuming no major failures this year.

Our family car is a Toyota Avensis was bought in 2008 cost £5800 I think it's been serviced about six times, it's also had a new battery and wipers when needed, never let us down.
I've got a Toyota Hiace i paid £900 pounds for it three years ago, costs so far apart from the usual tax, fuel, ins has been £100 for two new tires.

Costs £5568 for PCP, Maint and fuel.

Income £5148 in Car Allowance and travel expenses.

Did 11k miles. £420 out of my own pocket for personal mileage, but it’s skewed because I was very lucky on maintenance.

Haven’t needed any tyres in the last 12 months which is going to sting because they’re 19s

I’ve also got to spend £200 on a service for my gearbox as it’s not covered by the car service or the service pack I bought with it...

I wouldn’t “upgrade” my washing machine for the sake of it like some folk do with cars. The car is just a tool.

You say that, but ive never bought a new washing machine either!

Either people have been getting a new kitchen, been made paranoid by stories of them busting into flames so want the new one with a warranty, or moving between rented accommodation where one is supplied in the new home.

Also like cars the current one is a bangermonics lemon, its got rust issues, worn bearings, and is just a shit washing machine (despite being a posh, but not german, one!). Already got its replacement lined up though as someones moving house and offered it for free 😂

Old Zoé cost 3500e/year all in. New Zoé should cost about the same over 3-5 years under guarantee, it'll depend on the trade-in deal. Mileage makes little difference as elctricity is cheap. If I keep it for 10 years (edited) and then throw it away it'll be about 3300e/year - if there's any residual left at all then it'll have cost less.

I wouldn’t “upgrade” my washing machine for the sake of it like some folk do with cars. The car is just a tool.

A better washing machine makes no difference to your life. A better car is generally nicer and more comfortable to drive - otherwise it doesn't qualify as better IMO. You may end up having to spend quite some time in it. Compare it to bikes - your bike is probably incredibly expensive compared to what most people are prepared to pay, but we all know it can be worth it.

I had an £800 Passat, not quite a banger. I used to drive to a job 140 miles away every week. When I got the current Passat (3 years old/£10k at the time) the first trip in it was an absolute breeze - came home refreshed and relaxed. Similar to the way a good bike is better than a cheap one.

However a better car needn't cost that much more. My neighbour's 330d is the same age as mine and cost the same. He just bought it 2 years later. We both still own them 10 years later, his is still a 330d mine is still a Passat.

A Yaris is the answer...
Though I know you already know that having owned a Yaris.
Mrs stu bought a new Yaris for 12 grand ran it for 15 years and only ever spent money on general servicing, a few sets of brake pads and one set of discs.(Edit and a hand brake cable.)
Never broke down and still hasn't with the new owner thats had it for another 4 years.
Average milage was around 10,000
I have no idea how my cars do on this test as they're company lease cars that do 45,000 and really are a tool.

A better washing machine makes no difference to your life. A better car is generally nicer and more comfortable to drive – otherwise it doesn’t qualify as better IM

Define better.

For me better is simply more reliable , possibly more efficient and importantly - not at end of useful life like the one it replaced.

Once you get your head around cars will explode after 3 years and having to have a new one every 3 years you realise that car ownership is actually far too cheap in this country which is why people use them for unnesceary journeys that could easily be realised by other means

Define better.

I did. Nicer and more comfortable to drive a long way. So that's quieter, more comfortable/adjustable seats, easier controls, better ride, better handling (if on country roads) better entertainment system e.g. ability to play Spotify, MP3s or podcasts, satnav, auto dimming rear view mirrors, better headlights etc etc. These things all reduce stress on long rides.

Even something as simple as the seat fore-aft adjustment. In the Prius I want the seat in between two of the clicks which I can't do - in the Passat the clicks are much finer so I can get it where I want. Steering wheel also moves in and out which means I can get more comfortable.

If you're immune to all this stuff on a long drive then you're lucky. But I feel better after a long drive in a better car. But like I say, better doesn't have to mean new and expensive. I mean, I could have bought a new Yaris or a 3 year old Passat. One's obviously a better choice for my usage.

They also all cost money and add complication and your hauling them round for all your non long journeys as well. Most of what's listed are things to be avoided when you want cheap motoring.

It's alot like the old driving a huge car paying for your twice a year caravan holiday all year round.

I am immune to it because I try to spend as little time in my car as possible.

Good timing - I just updated the van spreadsheet,

58413 miles in 32 months,
total cost of £11,474 including purchase cost (~1700), all fuel (~6253), Insurance, MOTs and consumables / repairs (~£3526)

So ~£4300 / year for ~22000 miles.

I have 70ish mile commute and drive a van for ease of bike carrying, event sleeping etc. It is 14 years old and not desirable but is comfortable, reliable, efficient, and I don't mind chucking bikes in the back post race. I'll probably replace it in the spring as I'd like slightly more length and electric windows but while it keeps working it is doing me fine.

A bluetooth FM transmitter was the best £10 spent on it, most commutes are now podcasts for entertainment.

A Yaris is the answer…

Yes, yes it was. The Ibiza estate (old 1.4 16v, no turbo etc) is proving as good. We have had it 4 years and 50k and so far it has cost a rear damper, plus usual service and tyre costs.

If there is one thing I am looking at is using the car less. Much less. Don't know how. But less.

Would hate to think but I like cars, like driving, don't want to drive a shit box so all's good.

So that’s quieter, more comfortable/adjustable seats, easier controls, better ride, better handling (if on country roads) better entertainment system e.g. ability to play Spotify, MP3s or podcasts, satnav, auto dimming rear view mirrors, better headlights etc etc. These things all reduce stress on long rides.

Even something as simple as the seat fore-aft adjustment. In the Prius I want the seat in between two of the clicks which I can’t do – in the Passat the clicks are much finer so I can get it where I want. Steering wheel also moves in and out which means I can get more comfortable.

Our 2004 Volvo has all these. Bought for £6k 8 years ago, done 100k miles in our ownership (now on 185k) and no intention of ever selling. A joy to DIY spanner and service, big lazy unstressed petrol engine with no diesel foibles (injectors, turbo, DMF, etc), have been around for ages and have good forum info for when it does throw any issues up. Galvanized so doesn't rust.

Contrast to that is my 2007 Transit which is utter crap and has needed more spending on parts/repairs.
Both are well bottomed out depreciation wise, DIY repairs and servicing keep costs to an absolute minimum.

My car is approx £7k PA. Car allowance more than covers that, and mileage allowance covers a bit extra on top. All in, it’s a lot of money but fortunately it’s cost positive due to work.

Other half’s car is about £4k PA. Also on a lease but a lot less miles and fuel to worry about. I’m at a point where I dislike cars so much I’m happy to pay for the privilege of driving it, and putting fuel in it & someone else can worry about the rest.

I’ve done the bangernomics (and still do with our shed of a van for riding) and it annoys me intensely, always something not working, or needing fixing/replacing. Bored of that.

I’ve done the bangernomics (and still do with our shed of a van for riding) and it annoys me intensely, always something not working, or needing fixing/replacing. Bored of that.

I'm sort of doing this with our second car albeit with a banger that I always wanted bitd. Thought I'd enjoy maintaining it, fixing faults and restoring the bodywork but actually find it a bit of a chore. To do all the stuff I want to would be uneconomical and I'm just waiting for one of the common faults to pop up (whilst enjoying looking at it). It hasn't gone wrong but if I kept it a while it would and I can't really do without it day to day.

Just ordered a electric car that will cost X a month, should just work and someone will fix/replace anything that needs it. Better.

Citroen c5 bought 7 years ago for £14000 (would get £2000 trade in) £1714 p.a
Insurance roughly £250 p.a
Tax £145 p.a
mot repairs and servicing (myself) Guesstimate £350 p.a
Fuel almost exactly 10 miles per litre, 11000 miles = 1100litres £1430 p.a
Total running costs £ 3889 per annum

If there is one thing I am looking at is using the car less. Much less. Don’t know how. But less.

So, will you change your UN to:

matt_staysathomealotanddoesntdoworktrips

?

Best of luck, cars and ownership thereof are hard things to own cheaply.

One to throw in the mix ; do airbags have a shelf life...

Best of luck, cars and ownership thereof are hard things to own cheaply

Indeed. Just surprised by quite how much we've been spending on the things...

With a change in job its time to re-evaluate how much / why we spend.

Airbags are life of car these days.

Even when they weren't they were 10 or 15 years dependant on manufacturer ...not 3 or 5

Think how many shiny bikes that would buy!

Er... One?

Https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Pinarello/Dogma-F12-Red-eTap-AXS-12-Speed-Disc-Road-Bike/MI7D

your hauling them round for all your non long journeys as well

Those are the ones that are easiest to avoid doing.

It all depends how you view your transport. I'm in the molgrips camp. If you do bigger mileages day in day out (or at least reasonably frequently) then you arguably have a rational case for spending a bit more (and accepting the cost).

At the moment I often spend 7 hours alone in the car over the course of a weekend (visiting seriously ill relatives). In a rattly old banger that was constantly on the verge of an unexpected mechanical failure that would be loads more stressful and there's a price worth paying for that (although it's not £400/month on PCP for me).

For a big old barge + another car sometimes loaded up with piles of kayaks and bikes (it is the OP with the Volvo and all the kayaking gear isnt it?) that 12k spend doesn't look horrendous in objective terms. It's a lot of money in absolute terms but two cars, loan payments and everything down to the fuel for 30000 miles it's not horrific. The 45p/mile HMRC rate was set to cover costs many years ago. If you're consistently coming in under that I'd argue you're not doing too bad - but if your mileage is down you can potentially do better.

For every person who posts. "I bought a 50p Alfa Romeo and it went to Jupiter and back over twenty years with nothing but a wipe with a damp sponge" there's someone who had a family holiday screwed up by a banger and the older it is when you buy it the more chance there is of it having been abused in its earlier life.

just to be clear - i wasn't recommending bangernomics if your doing 40k a year thats rarely going to end well

i was recommending basic cars.

fwiw my costs above are based on a 3 year old 6000 mile old car. If thats a banger then I'm doing it wrong.

The big picture answer is to change your life choices so you don't need two cars and to cover such huge mileages. Obviously not practical for a lot of people / locations and not helped by a government / state that refuses to properly invest in public transport and cycling and walking infrastructure.

Cars and the cult of them are insane. The whole status thing. The whole 'nice place to be' leather seats and (s)****y dashboards and satnavs. Especially making them from easily corrodable materials and painting them with easily damaged, expensive to repair high gloss paintwork. The insurance industry scams of overpriced bodyshops and replace rather than repair. The whole unsustainable lease economy which encourages people to 'buy' cars as trinkets.

But anyway, at the centre of the whole thing is the way cars have become pretty much anything except for pragmatic transport because, in all honesty, we have nothing better to do with our lives than consume things.

Bangernomics vauxhall signum

Bought for £1500 6 years ago
Now worth £300 so £200 a year

35mpg x 10,000 miles a year is £1500 a year

Servicing (I wont bother again)/mot etc £150 a year

£1850 or 18.5p/mile.

Shared with my wife. Car allowance just funds bikes

just to be clear – i wasn’t recommending bangernomics if your doing 40k a year thats rarely going to end well

Sorry I think my post above yours might have come across the wrong way/a bit confrontational which wasn't my intention, more trying to highlight the gap in risk that sometimes gets overlooked. The older car posts on this thread are a lot more balanced than some of the previous ones we've had.

The whole ‘nice place to be’ leather seats and (s)**** dashboards and satnavs.

To me at least, quiet and refined place to be means less distractions and better concentration (I barely listen to the radio, I don't do phone calls - I want to be focussed on the road/economy/safety). The fact my half decent 7 year old car has better economy, good secondary safety and lower emissions than the 13 year old it replaced is arguably not a bad thing. You could take most of the in car tech away and I'd be quite happy.

I'm slowly squeezing my annual mileage down by better use of more sustainable options (and this is arguably one of the best ways to save car cost by extending the working life in years of a vehicle) but as you rightly say there are cost and reliability issues and massive gaps in the network and weekend family rail travel is expensive and subject to horrible amounts of disruption from engineering.

But anyway, at the centre of the whole thing is the way cars have become pretty much anything except for pragmatic transport because, in all honesty, we have nothing better to do with our lives than consume things.

Which can be directed at pretty much anything people like to spend money on. Life would be pretty dull if we only bought stuff that fulfilled a specific function and nothing more.

Servicing (I wont bother again)/mot etc £150 a year

£150 a year for servicing (at a garage?), MOT, tyres, repairs, etc? On a car that does 10k a year?

The big picture answer is to change your life choices so you don’t need two cars and to cover such huge mileages. Obviously not practical for a lot of people / locations and not helped by a government / state that refuses to properly invest in public transport and cycling and walking infrastructure.

Cars and the cult of them are insane. The whole status thing. The whole ‘nice place to be’ leather seats and (s)**** dashboards and satnavs. Especially making them from easily corrodable materials and painting them with easily damaged, expensive to repair high gloss paintwork. The insurance industry scams of overpriced bodyshops and replace rather than repair. The whole unsustainable lease economy which encourages people to ‘buy’ cars as trinkets.

But anyway, at the centre of the whole thing is the way cars have become pretty much anything except for pragmatic transport because, in all honesty, we have nothing better to do with our lives than consume things.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter 😎

Cars are tools to do a job, the less there is in them to go wrong the less they end up costing you. As long as it starts and runs ok and can be repaired when it needs it, we'll be keeping ours (basic 2007 Galaxy) for as long as we can, same as the cooker, washing machine and vacuum cleaner that were all second hand too (vacuum was free from OH's aunty Jean 20-odd years ago and is still going strong 😆 )

Drive less, spend less, work less. Ride more 😁

Which can be directed at pretty much anything people like to spend money on. Life would be pretty dull if we only bought stuff that fulfilled a specific function and nothing more.

Hmm. It's pretty hard to argue [i]for[/i] making stuff more complex than it needs to be and can't be fixed easily/cheaply when it (inevitably) fails 😉 Also, getting a bit deep here, we maybe have to look at why people like to spend money on stuff.

I'm fortunate that I bought a newish (2016) car for not a lot of money more than the car it replaced (a 2012, the extra cost was £1500 after I sold the old one), and I own it outright because it was cheap. It's a 1.0l Skoda Fabia. It's frugal, cheap to tax and new enough that I've not had to get much work done.

Costs last year were-

Insurance - £300
Tax - £20
MOT - £30
Service - £150
Fuel - £700
Depreciation - Not really sure. It cost me £6k and is probably worth £4.5k now, so £750.

So, £1950 for the year. For the use I've had out of it I'm pretty content with that.

I've just run our figures.
2 cars from '16 (big SUV & small runabout)
Total costs/month:
Depreciation: £178
Fuel: £275
Insurance: £68
Parking: £46
Servicing (@Main Dealer): £50
Parts (rainy day car fund): £70
MOT: £10
Tax: £14.50
Total cost/month: £711
Total cost/yr: £8532
Total cost/mile (25,000 miles/yr): £0.34

The small car is going soon to be replaced by a banger as my mileage is so low now, which should reduce costs a fair bit; no main dealer service, home service, do my own spannering, little/no depreciation. I have played with the idea of an EV, but I don't think the costs work out.

Purchase price minus webuyanycar value comes to £1800 per year so far (but not done with it yet)
Fuel £1400 for an estimated 12000 miles/year
Insurance £320
Tax £20
MOT £55
Service £30 if I recall correctly
Front tyres £190 the pair (over 2 years) - £95 / year

So far £3720 per year.

Got about £1200 back per year in work expenses for travel.

To do a job similar to mine in either London or Reading (only two vaguely commutable by public transport) I'd be looking at thousands more for the rail card plus an extra 2 hours a day commuting. And would still need the car for MTB, visiting the parents, supermarket and so on.

You do know the answer Matt - Reduce your car usage. My car costs 2019 <£500. One weeks hire plus petrol used plus a couple of big taxi fares. thats it. I rarely spend more than a thousand a year

He 5lab does not say at a garage. So the 150 device cost is oil and filter, half a set of tyres half a set of brake pads couple of bulbs and wiper blades, ti's maybe £30 light depending on fully synth or mineral, ting tong Chinese rubber or Europe branded, then ebay or halfrauds for consumables

I agree tj.

Today is perfect example of work though - I'm in Kirkaldy this morning and Dunfermline this afternoon, back to Stirling at end of the day. I've a rucksack and two big curved boxes of resources and books.

Public transport is just impossible.

What I can do is ride to work tomorrow.

£150 a year for servicing (at a garage?), MOT, tyres, repairs, etc? On a car that does 10k a year?

as the above comment, oil is about a tenner (I don't bother with the fancy synthetic crap, just get the right weight), filter is a tenner, I do them myself. 2 tyres is £100 fitted. last year I had to do a wheel bearing, which was £20, the year before I needed new rear pads, £20. Another wheel bearing is noisy again now, but I won't bother sorting it

It might be closer to £200 a year over the last 5, but I've not had any big bills. I fitted a towbar last year (£60 inc electrics) but I don't really consider that a running cost.

If I cared whether the car lasted, I'd do more, but it's not worth spending £400 on a full timing/all fluids/all filters service on a car worth £300. I cycle to work with the kids on the bike, my wife drives to work but could get the train if the car left her properly stranded (it hasn't). We'll probably get something bigger/nicer in 18 months (so only 1 more MOT to go). its really nice that modern cars don't really rust - doing the same 10 years earlier and it'd have had 5 sill patches by now 🙂

I don’t bother with the fancy synthetic crap, just get the right weight

Or, you could get the right spec for your car, if you want it to last longer. Don't just buy whatever cheap stuff has the right numbers on unless you really know what you are doing.

Given how important oil is I would be buying Halfords basic fully synth oil that meets the spec, it's only about £20. Hardly a huge amount extra.

Hmm. It’s pretty hard to argue for making stuff more complex than it needs to be and can’t be fixed easily/cheaply when it (inevitably) fails

No it's not. Better stuff is better. However, it's up to you how you want to prioritise the spending of your own money. I bet most people who own £40k cars would think you were just as stupid for spending more than £500 on a bike.

You can get cheap easy to fix cars, but if you can afford a better one - and afford to fix it when it fails - then why not? Buying fancy cars is in itself not that much more environmentally damaging; it's changing them all the time that is.

So if you want a nice car, buy one - but keep it for 20 years.

The op asked about getting car costs down . Not justifying a "better" one

https://www.bakfiets.com/elektrische-bakfiets/cargobike-classic-long-steps

Doubt actually you could put one on a train so not a serious suggestion really

There are a few plain rules for keeping you car-based spend down irrespective of what you drive:

Don't buy a new car until the current one is either economically unsustainable or your circumstances mean you have to change. Modern cars last a long time compared to even 20 years ago.
Don't use it for short journeys where an alternative (walk/cycle) exists.
Plan journeys in a circle so that you minimise mileage. preferably going from the furthest point back to home as it keeps cold running to a minimum.
Drive smoothly and safely. That way you reduce fuel consumption, wear on components and reduce the risk of accidents.
Keep on top of maintenance schedules and use quality parts. Note that's not expensive! Just use oil of the right grade and standard, keep an eye on fluid levels, fit decent energy efficient tyres when you need to change etc.

My current Fabia is just about to tick over 100k and the amount of my friends, family and colleagues who are saying I have to change it before it throws a big bill is astounding. I've looked after it as per the list above and in that 100k all I have had to do is routine maintenance. Service every 10k, front tyres every 30k, rears changed at 70k, front discs and pads at 86k, aircon regas and brake fluid every 2 years and that's it. I haven't even had to change a bulb! The last service report said the clutch is only 30% worn, rear drums are 50%, battery is like new and there is no rust anywhere. It genuinely looks and feels like a car that's done 30-40k and will go on for much longer. I'm aiming for 200k, not bad for a cheap run-out model the dealer was basically giving away (cost me new less than 1 year old ones were in the supermarkets) which has the smallest engine they fitted. It does almost all it's driving with a bike on the towbar and has done 3 trips to Chatel without any issues whatsoever, comfy too. It's cheap to insure, does 45-50 mpg without fail and just works. I love it.

Our two cars (BMW 335D and Honda Civic) cost under £5.5k for 20,000 miles a year all included, so about 35p/25p per mile. We bought them when they were about 8 years old and privately for cash with part personal loan. I now maintain them to a high level partly using garages and DIY for some tasks (eg: brakes/suspension) and I never look at cost of running compared to the value of the 14yr old car, I compare the cost to price of a replacement car, depreciation and hassle/risk of a replacement car. I think it's better to keep a car you know has been maintained well, even if you get a big bill rather than swap to a newer car. I also think cars from the mid 2000's were built to a better standard to post recession and the new lease heavy era, where cars seems to get big issues outside the 3 year mark.

Or, you could get the right spec for your car, if you want it to last longer. Don’t just buy whatever cheap stuff has the right numbers on unless you really know what you are doing.

This argument always comes up. And usually degenerates towards someone sending samples of used engine out for lab analysis so they can tweek their DIY service regime to the optimum.

Then the car contracts tin worm and we'll never know if replacing the oil at 1/2 intervals would have prolonged the engines live 2-3x what the chassis was ever going to manage. When was the last time you heard a car with a ruble from the big end bearing?

I would be inclined to agree though. My local Ford dealer usually has a deal on 3rd party oil of the correct spec (they'll also have the motorcraft stuff at £40 a bottle). Last time It was £65 for a 5 gallon drum IIRC. Over 2 similar Fords* in our house that's 2-3 years and kinda a no brainer.

But if we had two different (bangernomics) cars I'd probably not be fussed about using the exact oil. I'd probably still stick with syntetic oil though. It takes longer to break down. Doubly important if the car is turbocharged as oil going through that bearing is subject to some very harsh conditions. Conversely I genuinely have no idea of the spec of the oil in the MG, its 20W50, and about 2/3 of it was Gulf branded, the rest I think came from the dregs of everything from motorbike to lawnmower engine oils. The manual recommends anything from 5-30 (noisy but noticeably more powerful), to 20-50 (a bit more refined and reassuringly stable/high oil pressure when stuck in traffic fro any length of time!)

*this point is pertinent as seemingly every ford from the NA Petrol Zetec onward to the latest turbo diesel seems to use the same spec, which is probably unusual.

Or, you could get the right spec for your car, if you want it to last longer. Don’t just buy whatever cheap stuff has the right numbers on unless you really know what you are doing.

Given how important oil is I would be buying Halfords basic fully synth oil that meets the spec, it’s only about £20. Hardly a huge amount extra.

I don't want the car to last longer. Halfords oil is £33 for the vauxhall spec oil, so over 6 oil changes I've saved £100 by running regular oil. That's 30% of the value of the car. Nothing to do with oil circulation is wrong with the car, however the car is on 165k, the suspension is tired, the seats are tired, its not very economical, its not really big enough for our family, if you do a really long drive (8 hours plus) the airbag lights come on, it drips a little oil and it stinks. Yes, if I wanted the car to last a long time I could replace all the things that are bad, buy why bother?

Its now done 15k since its last oil change. I'll top it up as the level drops, but I'll not change the oil again, I'd rather spend the £20/1 hour in the pub

I think one of the problems why older cars don’t last as long is that people have no mechanical sympathy and want to spend the least amount possible to keep things running - they will spend huge amounts buying new cars rather than care for the one they have thinking it saves them money.
No one treats their cars well, frequent oil changes, treating it to quality parts, replacing before completely worn out etc etc.
People leave things to the last minute and when they are an MOT fail (why don’t people fix the advisories as well as the fails??) ad they inevitable get a huge MOT bill which would have been much less if they had kept on top of things over the previous years.

Seems to me, the only way of getting costs down any significant amount is bangernomics. Or getting taxis and public transport everywhere.

If I bought something new it'd probably take me like ten years to pay off. By which time I'd own outright a ten year old car.

If instead I bought say a seven-year old car and paid it off in three years I'd... own outright a ten year old car.

What do I do then with a ten year old car? Either sell it before the big bills start coming in and buy something newer in which case I've not really gained anything, or accept that I'm going to keep it until I've run it into the ground in which case I might as well have saved myself twenty grand and just bought a 10yo motor in the first place.

My previous car was on a two year lease. If instead I'd had the capital to just buy it outright then sell it two years later, the depreciation is comparable to what I'd paid in lease costs. So buying rather than leasing wouldn't have gained me anything here either.

The whole ‘nice place to be’

Cars are tools to do a job

These arguments are two cheeks of the same arse. If you view a car as "just" a tool to get you from A to B then sure, it doesn't really matter what it looks like. But you could apply the same logic to many things. A bike is just a tool, how many of you have spent several grand on bikes when a £100 Decathlon special would do the same job? Do you sit at home with bare plaster on the walls or do you have wallpaper, ornaments and artwork up because you want it to be a nice place to be?

I like driving. Having a 'nice' car brings me pleasure. I like having mod cons like Android Auto, a decent sound system and modern safety features. Adaptive cruse control is ace. With a lease vehicle if the engine falls out tomorrow I don't care, it's all warrantied up, I have breakdown cover thrown in, it's near hassle-free motoring. If OTOH I didn't care about any of these things I'd be driving a Vauxhall Cavalier or something.

Best way to decrease costs it to learn to fix/service it yourself.

Pattern parts from EuroCarParts and their DFS-esque sale, a few basic tools, and the odd specialist tool here and there where needed. Why pay a fortune for discs and pads change when you can do it for less yourself?

And I'd rather be out on the bike than fapping over running costs.

Bangernomics are just not going to work for this main car.
Interestingly I've just chucked other cars into this cost calculator. It doesn't have a V70 anymore, so I put a V60 in. I also know that depreciation is the big issue, followed by running costs, followed by fuel. I'm not really considering a new car, but it does show how residual Vs maintenance does much around with things.
Current depreciation is about 10p per mile. ☹️

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-costs/compare-list/18526660,18665092,18611644,18554572

Keep on top of maintenance schedules and use quality parts.

This is a key issue with older cars. People wait til something fails on an old car then take it to the local and ask for a cheap fix, so they get cheap parts, which can be shite. The rear shocks on the Passat needed changing and I bought Sachs, I think they were an extra £150/pair or something. I also changed the front, and the ride is miles better than the old ones. The car is comfy and you get that nice supple feeling over rough road and potholes instead of the loud thunk typical to old cars. Consequently I'm much happier to keep driving it around and less inclined to change it.

Re oil, there is a blanket spec for petrol called API SN where N is incremented every time there's a new spec. This seems to be the thing for basic petrol engines. The 'VW/Audi' oil they do is actually VW Audi long life meeting VW's own specs 504.00 and 507.00 which AFAIK are specifically for diesel PD engines using long life service - you need it because of the cam actuated injectors. A bog standard Polo won't need it.

So you don't necessarily need the one that bears your manufacturer's name. But you should use the right spec, IMO. It's just a waste of everything to let a car slide because you can't be arsed.

Cars should be rationed at one every 20 years.

Oh and don't conflate depreciation and running costs. Makes no sense IMO, they are different types of cost.

What is your spend?

My OCD spreadsheet say the current ride (2003 Honda CRV now on 110k miles) has returned 32p/mile, all in, servicing, repairs, insurance, petrol, etc.

The last one, a 12 year old A4, started falling apart and need a lot of repairs. It ran me 40p/mile up to the point where I got shot.

Many moons ago, I did the bangernomics type options, that was closed to 25p/mile on a ratty old poverty spec mk4 Escort.

My take, best way to get car costs down is to buy something that has been past the bulk of depreciation (so is about 6-10 years old), in the nicest condition you can find, has reasonable service history, and maintain it properly and keep it for a long time. like 6 or 7 year ownership period as a minimum (unless it turns out to be a complete snotter).

Alternatively, the 3 year age point is a fairly good time to buy too, in my experience. The extra purchase cost probably balances out the extra repairs from going in on a 6-10 year old car.

Bangernomics are just not going to work for this main car.

No reason why it shouldn't though. My car is 14 years old, and did about 25000miles last year (admittedly it will probably 3000 this year, only if i drive to scotland again). My OHs car is 16 years old and she has a 20 mile commute.

Both (touch wood) have yet to leave us stranded and generally cost peanuts to run. Hers has been about £400 every other MOT but thats mostly labour (if im not doing anything i can fix my car, to fix hers requires us both to be not doing anything for a morning/day, and a days contingency, not going to happen).

I spend about £2500 a year on my 56 plate trafic for 5000 miles a year. It's a work van so tax deductible too. Bought for 4.5k 4 years ago. Serviced in a small garage. Drive carefully etc.

don’t conflate depreciation and running costs. Makes no sense IMO, they are different types of cost.

they are different types of cost, but it makes lots of sense to conflate them otherwise the best car to run always appears to be either something from the 70s (zero depreciation, high running costs) or something brand new (high depreciation, zero running costs). The total cost of ownership is what matters.

Reading this I reckon a fair few of you better stock up on older cars before the post 2015ish cars become old as things seem to get a bit more complicated when turbo petrol and fancy derv engines enter play!

Also seem to be plenty of competent mechanics about when it comes to a service. I can change filters, pads, discs, oil etc but there's plenty more checked on a proper service that I'd miss.

When working out if it was worth packing in my 15 year old ST170 for the electric car on lease, taking in to account the likely belt and clutch change over the three years, I reckon the difference in price per month will be between £50/100 all in. TBH for me it's a price worth paying.

they are different types of cost, but it makes lots of sense to conflate them

Arguably they're the same thing. Depreciation is the market pricing in the remaining lifespan of the components. Once depreciation hits zero you're at the point where replacing bits becomes more or less an expected factor of ownership.

It's higher than running costs because it's also pricing in the less tangible factors like newness, condition, fashion and snobbery.

Depreciation is the difference between capital expenditure at the time you buy it and the asset value. The rest is operational expenditure in that you have to actually find it from your paycheque each month.

Why are people counting depreciation as a cost?

Should just be money that leaves your wallet / bank account.

No need to over-complicate things.

"money that leaves your wallet / bank account" is less complicated than "cost"?