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I'm singularly failing to do this. At best its a few hours of broken doze.
Current setup is all Alpkit - Hunka bivvy bag, Cloudbase mat, Pipedream 200 bag.
The biggest problem is that I'm a front/side sleeper (recovery position ideally) and I just can't get comfortable in the confines of the bivvy bag. all the spare fabric of the hood on both bivvy and sleeping back always ends up rucked up and rubbing on my face. I can't stand having the hood of the sleeping bag cinched down around my face either. Even in a tent, I only sleep well if I have a proper full size pillow (ideally 2!), which obviously is only OK when car camping.
I could upgrade to a hooped bivvy, but not sure that will solve the root cause of the problem, and by the time I've done that, its about the same weight and bulk as a silly light tent, and you've lost that "sleeping under the stars" vibe.
I only go out once or twice a year - so far this year, the first trip was a disaster. Planned to sleep on the beach - had no idea that they came alive with insects at night, so managed sub 2 hours of getting eaten to bits before I gave up and started heading home. This Friday night just gone, I went out locally(ish), fairly high up, where it was moderately breezy, so no insects, but after a cooking hot day, it was actually pretty chilly, I was barely warm enough in the 2 season bag and just couldn't get comfortable (and then the mist came in and it got quite damp!). In both cases the ride in and especially back, first thing, was lovely, but I end up writing the next day off either by needing a few more hours in bed, or stumbling round like a zombie, functionally useless.
I should add - I'm not a great fan of "camping" as a hobby in itself - its just a means to an end. If I'm bivvying its about the ride I can do by staying out overnight, so minimal bulk, weight and faff so as not to affect the ride is important.
Ideas/advice?
Thanks
all the spare fabric of the hood on both bivvy and sleeping back always ends up rucked up and rubbing on my face
It has to be Baltic cold for me to use the hood of a sleeping bag. I got a quilt in the end and find them much less restrictive overall, you can roll over without taking the bag with you and getting twisted up.
I could upgrade to a hooped bivvy, but not sure that will solve the root cause of the problem,
Can't see that being any better overall though it would keep fabric off your face. They look like a right faff overall though.
I have a very roomy bivi bag that I only do up fully if there's bugs about. The quilt is spacious and although I'd prefer a wider sleeping pad, it's fine as it is.
I use a tarp bc as much as I love a bivi under starry skies it's not that often conditions are right to avoid damp/condensation and if it's wet a bivi bag is almost the last place I want to be. A tarp or basic tarp tent is a good compromise and means I'm less reliant on the bivi bag, it's more of a draft excluder and sleeping bag protector. All up sleeping gear weight inc the tarp or tarp tent is ~1.5kg with the warm quilt or 1.1kg for the summer-only kit.
fwiw .. I like camping out but I 'camp to ride' not VV. Night 1, I rarely sleep particularly well, certainly not like at home. Night 2-3 onwards is ok as the riding fatigue helps. I'll tend to sleep in 1-2 hour stints though and it's only in a good bivi spot after a long but not too pacey day when I get a 4hr sleep cycle. I know some who sleep like the dead on bike trips but I only get sleep like that when car+tent camping with the full duvet etc.
I think getting out fairly regularly also helps. My first bivi of the year often goes with poor sleep.
I find my hooped bivi (Snugpak Stratosphere) is more conducive to a decent kip without losing the sleeping under the stars thang. Bivi bags, by the time you factor in a synthetic bag, aren't a lightweight alternative to a tent; they're a different, and potentially more discreet, way to experience the outdoor environment.
Last week I was out in just a basic bivi bag and a lightweight 12 year old down bag, and got away with it - but that was a judgement call based on good weather and dry ground.
Hooped bivi bags or tarp-plus-bivi-bag are safer options. A zipped bivi bag is much easier to live with than something like a Hunka XL.
I think some of it is just down to familiarity. I've slept out so often that I'm just very comfortable with it, be that tent, tarp or bivvy. Unlike jameso, sleeping out is an end in itself.
I also rarely use the hood of the sleeping bag*. I do wear a wooly hat though. Quilt is also a good option.
If in a bivvy bag I tend not to have it over my head either. I do have a OR Helium hooped bivvy that will keep bugs out without covering my face in fabric and that works.
A micro-tarp over my head area works great at deflecting cooling breezes without going fully-enclosed.
*Other than for holding my air pillow in place.
You do get used to it - I don't sleep well in tents on the first night either. But, a few things I consider:
- Sleeping mat inside bivi bag
- One of those tiny inflatable pillows e.g. Sea to Summit - they weigh almost nothing and fit inside your sleeping bag hood even if it's not over your head. Much better than they used to be back in the day.
- Tarp - and I also rig up a piece of string somewhere that I can use to suspend the bivi hood - I have one of those Alpkit ones and there's a loop on the hood for this purpose. But I don't zip the hood up.
- Midge net of some kind - not sure about this yet - either a full single one also suspended via the string I mentioned earlier, or I might put together one that just covers my shoulders and head to save a bit of weight.
- Make sure the tarp is on the ground on the windward side so if your head is out of the bag (which it now can be because of the midge net, and is much more comfortable) the slightest gust of wind doesn't blow in your face and wake you up.
- Tent*
* Not being funny, but tarp/bivi is quite shit. I bought them a few years back because they are cheap but for my upcoming trip I bought an Alpkit Tarpstar 1 which is slightly heavier, a bit more expensive at £180 or so (but there's currently a sale on) but vastly better. I haven't slept out in it yet but it's a tent, and has a ton of space inside too. And moz net built in of course.
If it's dry enough to bivi I don't bother with a bivi bag and put up with the dew on the sleeping bag which I prefer to condensation in the bivi bag - if it's cold you'll get condensation however "breatheable" the bag is supposed to be. If it's going to rain I take a tent unless tents are banned (Spain). As others have said a mosquito net is essential. My pillow is whatever is to hand: bags, shoes, rain jacket, spare clothes. I sleep fine.
Harbour wall on O Camino dos Faros
Where did you get that big head net, Ed? I can only find full size ones or the little ones for your hat.
A haberdashery in town, Molgrips. They sell soft mosquito netting by the meter for making nets for windows etc..
Ah yes, DIY was my next option.
I'm a side sleeper. I use an Alpkit hooped bivvy (Elan).
They look like a right faff overall though
About 10 seconds to thread the hoops through and push into the holes. Most of the time I don't bother pegging it out if it's a still night but when I do peg it out it's less than a minute.
Second the inflatable pillow idea. Buff on the head. Jacket and wool socks if it's cold.
- Sleeping mat inside bivi bag
Yep.
- One of those tiny inflatable pillows
Yep. But its only about 3" thick, I need more like 9 to support my head if I'm on my side. It also tends to slide out from under me as its so small and light. Even tucked in the hood of the bivvy bag I can lose it. If I'm bikepacking I don't carry enough spare stuff to generate any meaningful volume in a stuffsac. Friday I had armwarmers and a gilet as spare clothes. Worst case, if I pulled my finger out, I could have been home in an hour.
- Tarp
Now I have a tarp, I've used it a couple of times - but if its dry, I'm never entirely sure what good it does, other than being another "outdoorsy thing" to faff with? On the beach there would have been nothing solid to anchor it too. Friday night I could have mackled something up, but I was sheltered enough by the rocks I was amongst to avoid most of the direct wind (and there was limited grass to peg into). And by the time I've taken a tarp and pegs and paracord AND the bivvy bag (which is still necessary - I've only slept wild once without a bivvy bag, and despite a 3S bag, I froze), we're way into tent weight and bulk territory.
When people are saying they "don't use the hood", can you clarify? If my shoulders are inside the sleeping bag, my head is in/on the hood, which is in/on the bivvy bag. If I roll over most of it ends up on top of me (except the bivvy bag, which has the mat in and therefore wants to move in a differnt way), so I'm ending up getting all wound up in "stuff".
The Hunka (non XL) bivvy has no zips or owt like that - just a big sack, as simple as you can get.
+1 for not cinching the bag down and just wearing a hat instead. Or even go a step further and use a lighter bag and wear a down jacket so it doesn't need to be right over my shoulders.
I only use the hood of the bag if I it starts to rain, but my bags (RAB Storm) a clamshell design so there's no need to cinch it, just pull the flap over and zip it us as much as necessary to keep rain out.
I only go out once or twice a year
Maybe this^^
Every year it takes me a wee while to get used to sleeping out again (tent or bivvy).
Lifelong bivvi bagger here, although TBH I've done less as I've got older.
Ime a solid night's sleep is always a bit unlikely as there's always something to wake you up. That's kind of the point though, it's nice to wake up in the wee hours to the sound of an owl, or an insanely bright full moon that you can read by. Or a meteorite shower. As I've got older I do find myself a bit of a mess the next day though - a broken night's sleep is easy to cope with in your 20s.
I always put the mat outside the bivvy bag. Inside is just horrible imo, can't move or get into my preferred foetal/side sleeper position. I have a goretex bag similar to a hunka (gf has one). Might put a thin groundsheet down, depending on my mat choice and terrain. I typically have head out , with the hood under my head and the bivvy bag below that. Might have a soft hat on. Bivvy hood up if rainy/proper chilly. I have had plenty nights in rain where everything is zipped up and just a mouth sized gap over my mouth! Yes it's shit.
For me a 2 season bag is unlikely to be sufficient in the UK and I would generally expect to wear thermal top and bottom and socks, even with a light 3 season bag.
Bugs are big problem, and are a big reason why I tended to bivvy more in winter/spring/autumn. Midge net is vital, and even then mossies will get you through the mesh if it's touching skin. A large piece of net as per educator above , I tie it to a string and a stick that sticks in the ground and hangs the net over your head and shoulders. That was very effective in the bug paradise of an Alaskan summer but even then I surrendered after a month and went back to a tent.
A tent was my solution.
And these days, tents are not much heavier than many bivvy bags IMO.
Now I have a tarp, I've used it a couple of times - but if its dry, I'm never entirely sure what good it does,
Mainly keeps a breeze and condensation off. Condensation forms under the tarp rather than on the bivi bag, though you'll get some in the bag when it's colder. What I like about tarps or similar minimal tarp tents is they're light and compact to pack, it's an 'in case' option on many trips, a bivi-only night in good conditions is another option.
And by the time I've taken a tarp and pegs and paracord AND the bivvy bag (which is still necessary - I've only slept wild once without a bivvy bag, and despite a 3S bag, I froze), we're way into tent weight and bulk territory.
A classic pros and cons debate... Tarp or something like a 6MD Gatewood tarptent, 200-350g, maybe 400g. Bivi bag, 150-250g for a lighter spec. That's a smaller pack and lighter than my tent, an old Easton Kilo 1P (850g) that I rarely use but there's not enough in it to pick just on weight.
They look like a right faff overall though
About 10 seconds to thread the hoops through and push into the holes. Most of the time I don't bother pegging it out if it's a still night but when I do peg it out it's less than a minute.
I meant, more for sleeping in when you move around or getting in and out of. Fidget is prob a better word than faff. Probably depends on the model though, the Snugpak Montgomery mentions looks ok - better for sitting up in the morning making a brew than my tarptent that's a bit low.
@educator
If it's going to rain I take a tent unless tents are banned (Spain).
Can you clarify?
Presumably you mean outside "authorized" campsites but does that mean bivvies are OK outside authorized campsites. If so,is there a definition of "tent" vs "bivvy"? Just curious!
In Spain you can lie down and sleep just about anywhere pulic. There are specific well-signed bans in some areas where you might do damage to fauna/flora but the general rule is that lying down and sleeping is legal. However any form of shelter be it a tent, tarp, hooped bivy, twigs covered in leaves... is camping and illegal.
Our walking tent is an MSR Carbon 2 which at 850gm for two people makes it the obvious choice if camping is allowed.
Oops wrong button, my fault double post.
And these days, tents are not much heavier than many bivvy bags IMO.
Which completely misses the point. Bivvy bags are still much more flexible in terms of finding a pitch and are a different experience. I'll use either bag, bag & tarp or tent depending on weather, midge factor and planned route.
As for the faff factor of a tarp, it helps if you have a standard pitch for it. For my "flying vee" micro tarp, guys of relevant length are pre-attached so it's just a question of 4 pegs and a pole and I'm sorted.
That layout means that I rarely have to have my head (or even shoulders) in the bivvy/sleeping bag, I have a little under-cover space and I'm sheltered from a little wind. I do see folk with much larger tarps but I've found that larger sections need more support/guys and can still be prone to flapping as soon as there's anything above a light breeze.
Get a DD Hammocks Frontline with underblanket and place your bivy in that.
On the hammocks front, I had my first ever proper go in one t'other week..I slept like a baby, probably better than on any other camp, and bloody loved it!
This probably isn't very helpful for ultralighting tho as it's heavier/bulkier than both a bivvy and a tent.
I don't really have much to add to what's already been said about getting sleep in a bivvy. Need warm enough insulation, a big/comfy enough bag that you aren't anymore claustrophobic than you need to be, and whatever comfort accoutrements you prefer (pillow, sleep mat etc). Ear plugs and eye mask can be helpful. Helps to be somewhere you know is quiet so you aren't on edge worrying about being caught doing something you're not supposed to be doing.
Sometimes can be better to turn up with a bit of time to spare somyou can chill for a bit and get accustomed to your surroundings and the general vibe of where you plan to stay. Can be helpful to have someone else with you too for strength in numbers and to set your mind at ease.
And yeah, practice/familiarity helps a lot
I don't know how you can rely on a hammock because if I wild camp I am rarely near trees.
That's the issue I'd face too. It can be difficult finding a pitch for a tent sometimes, trying to find a hammock pitch would be far, far too restrictive when planning routes and locations.
On the other hand, if you can find a stand of trees you're probably 80% likely to be able to put a hammock up and the experience will be just as good regardless. But then again on Knoydart I'm not sure there's a single tree on the whole route.
Yes I agree with the points on hammock practicality, particularly for longer trips. It's never going to better a tent or a bivvy on that front
However, if going out where the camp is an end unto itself and you know you will be somewhere with well spaced, safe trees then (based on my experience of 1 hammock camp 😀) I'd really recommend giving it a try. I was a definite sceptic before trying it.
It was so ridiculously comfortable and cozy, and very nice suspended up over the ground nice and dry when it started raining on my trip.
Also be aware it's a lot more faff. But enjoyable faff nonetheless. You also need to think about additional insulation (under quilt)
If it's going to rain I take a tent unless tents are banned (Spain).
It’s in Spanish but most things in Spain are 🙂
https://www.jurides.com/acampada-libre/
It’s a breakdown of wild camping in the different regions of Spain.
My areas fine but down the road a no-no.
Quickly reading through that it I can only find Andalucia in mainland Spain that bans a bivi as in lying down and going to sleep with no more than a sleeping bag. And some are less restrictive than I thought allowing wild camping in small numbers with similar limitations on time and locations to France.
OP, i had similarly dreadful nights sleep last friday night and was going to post the exact same as yours.
Also a side sleeper. I put my Alpkkit Numo in my bag, to protect it from punctures, and to keep me from falling off it, but i just dont think there is the room to have it in with me. I was able to lie comfortably if i lay on my back, like a corpse, but was then woken up moments later by my own violent snoring/choking.
In the end, as it was dry i got my sleeping bag out of the bivi, and lay on the top on my side a i normally would and got and hr or so from 5am till dawn.
tbh,im now quite keen to go back out again and try
a) sleeping on top of the mat, and just hoping it doesnt blow away. Freeing up a lot of volume in the bivi bag
b) sacking off the bag all together, and replacing it with a Tarp arranged in a very very low "C fly wedge", or similar.
TBH, if it looks like the weather might be bad, im not likely to be out anyway. Do i even need a bivi bag?
My bag is an army surplus one, so dead simple. Perhaps i need to add a zip, to allow it to expand for a bit more wiggle room, or even some flippin arm holes would be useful.
Ive got a hammock, but no one else does, so havent had chance to put it up yet! eveyrone else wants flat grass to kip on, not roots and leaf litter.
might try it on the climbing frame some time this week, see if its even vaguely a go-er
Hunka or Hunka XL? If the former, I'm not surprised it's uncomfortable with the mat inside.
Generally I don't pull the bivvy bag up very high, but if necessary (e.g. if using my midge net which velcros into the opening) I've sewn a loop onto it so it can't be pulled up with the help of my tarp (if I'm using it), a tree, or something. Your handlebar will do in a pinch. Sounds like Hunkas have this now? Mine is >10 years old.
Talking of tarps, a mini one like this just to cover your head means you don't need to pull the bivvy bag right up, even if it's raining, if you position yourself right, but is still minimalist, both in terms of view blocked and weight.
I always have an eyemask and earplugs with me. When I sleep anywhere away from home, and in fact at home in the summer when we need to windows and curtains open to get a breeze in. Yes, they isolate you from your surroundings, but if you need that to sleep, so be it. You can very quickly un-isolate yourself to enjoy the sunrise if you haven't slept through it.
As a side-sleeper too, the pillow thing is important. And I find most inflatable camping pillows a bit thin too. I was reading a thread on this topic on r/ultralight earlier actually. The best solution anyone seemed to have come up with was: use two. The Trekology ones get a lot of recommends.
And yes, familiarity. I often struggle to sleep the first night even in a strange bed. I'm just not that good a sleeper, so I'm arguably just not that cut out for bikepacking, but I still love it. I went for a bivvy on the beach last weekend. Found a nice flat space, well-protected from the wind by the dunes, was dry and warm enough if my summer bag, and my eyemask completely blocked out the full moon. No condensation probs. Had had a couple of pints and was with a mate so very chilled. Still can't have got more than 2 hours sleep 🤷♂️
Halfway along the South Downs Way. Reading with interest, no pillow, I'm doomed 😆
measured my Army bivi bag at 80cm across, which is the same as a regular Alpit Hunka.
Hunka XL is 98cm across, which is not insignificant!
Talking of tarps, a mini one like this just to cover your head means you don't need to pull the bivvy bag right up, even if it's raining, if you position yourself right, but is still minimalist, both in terms of view blocked and weight.
Forgot to add the link: https://www.bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/product/bear-pit-tarp/
This is why I don’t camp let alone bivy anymore. Too much faff to spend an uncomfortable night somewhere. Sure it looks amazing in the photos until you realise how bad a night people have had to be up early enough to take those amazing dawn photos.
This is why I don’t camp let alone bivy anymore. Too much faff to spend an uncomfortable night somewhere. Sure it looks amazing in the photos until you realise how bad a night people have had to be up early enough to take those amazing dawn photos.
That's a logical approach, for sure. But as I say, I still enjoy it despite often not sleeping well. I took a few phone photos on the beach, but only my mate who was there and my partner have seen them.
This is why I don’t camp let alone bivy anymore.
It's a means to an end. If you want to be out in the wilderness, you have to camp. You can't erect a hotel wherever you want to stay 🙂
you realise how bad a night people have had to be up early enough to take those amazing dawn photos.
I set an alarm, wake, see what the cloud is doing, take a couple of photos (if appropriate) and fall back to sleep. Then again, that's one of the advantages of not having a tent, I can just lie in my bivvy bag.
"As a side-sleeper too, the pillow thing is important. And I find most inflatable camping pillows a bit thin too. I was reading a thread on this topic on r/ultralight earlier actually. The best solution anyone seemed to have come up with was: use two. "
Which is what I do. Minimal extra weight. Works well.
Before going with two pillows I used to put one pillow on top of a pair of shoes a d a folded fleece. Two pillows is simpler and easier to rearrange during the night if I sleep on my back for a bit. The side sleep set up is too high for back sleeping.
On the personal ability to sleep thing, I'm fairly exceptionally skilled at it. I can sleep pretty much anywhere if I'm tired enough, whereas my wife struggles. My amazing skill really annoys her!
I've only had maybe 2 really bad nights in the early part of my bivvy career. I've camped/bivvied out loads this year and it's never been worse than 'ok'
How about sticking a tarp over the top then your face can breathe out in the open? And an inflatable pillow (Alpkit).
This is why I don’t camp let alone bivy anymore.
It's a means to an end. If you want to be out in the wilderness, you have to camp. You can't erect a hotel wherever you want to stay 🙂
Good. I will stick to my van or using refugios when I want to get out into the wild.
I slept well on SOuth Downs Way last night. Although having slashed my tyre and used my tube I was somewhat disappointed to see my tyre flat this morning. Managed to get enough air in to roll downhill to Brighton where a nice man at Devils Bikes sorted a new tyre...back up that bloody hill now!!
As others have said, camping for me is more like a series of naps than a solid 8 hours. Gets better over longer trips but on a short overnight I'm normally pretty tired in the morning.
However, the mental benefits far outweigh any temporary physical discomfort. Nothing else allows me to disconnect my brain like camping out in nature!
Regarding inflatable pillows, it's pretty easy to make a fleece pillow case which will massively increase how comfortable it is. If you attach a length of shock cord then it can loop over the head of the mat and stay in place all night.
If you attach a length of shock cord then it can loop over the head of the mat and stay in place all night.
Tends not to be quite as successful on "mummy" shaped mats, hence me stashing the pillow in the hood of my sleeping bag. I appreciate this doesn't work for those that like to have the hood around their head though.
If you attach a length of shock cord then it can loop over the head of the mat and stay in place all night.
Tends not to be quite as successful on "mummy" shaped mats, hence me stashing the pillow in the hood of my sleeping bag. I appreciate this doesn't work for those that like to have the hood around their head though.
I sewed a fleece pocket in the hood of my bag, but not right at the top, so I can slip the pillow in, but can still cinch the hood up if I feel the need.
I sleep absolutely fine camping. If you don't you need the kit that suits.
I don't sleep so well in a bivvy mind you. I get too tangled up in it as i fight demons all night.
Nothing beats camping for me.300+ nights in the last 3 years. Peace and beauty and simplicity
With you 100% there tj.
If it's just me (rather than having to try and press unwilling family members into it) i would much rather go camping with minimal gear than sleep in a hotel or hostel at pretty much any time of the year.
Just so long as the weather isn't too wild!
Quickly reading through that it I can only find Andalucia in mainland Spain that bans a bivi as in lying down and going to sleep with no more than a sleeping bag
I think Andalusia is also weird as it’s prohibited but they’ve not going to fine you but just move you on.
Whereas some have scary fines.
TBH they should give you a prize if you can actually put a tent up down here, I doubt you could hammer a peg in and if you could it’s probably somewhere you don’t want to be a Rambla or swamp or someone’s plowed field 🙂
Agreed, a piss bottle is crucial to save getting out of the tent in the night! Looks like you need to hydrate more though
TBH I thought it was a nice double malt 😉 , gotta be worth the weight of carrying it.
- First rule of outdoors life is the whole worlds a wiz spot.
- Second rule ,as soon as you’ve got him out the whole worlds going to be walking by.
I tend to sleep really well outside or in a tent. I think positive associations help. On one trip i didn’t sleek inside for 6 months
I’m in the process of returning to bike packing after kids. So sorting out kit basically from scratch. I’m working on kits that’s light but good enough. Here are a few thoughts
The pipe dream 200 is not much down in a sewn through construction. No way I’d be warm enough. 2 seasons is generous as a description. My bag is 250g of down but with baffles. That’s fine for summer and shoulder season’s
A mummy may doesn’t work for me. I’ve ended up with an exped full length, full width, in 6 foot 4. That’s comfy for me as a side sleeper
I put a fleece round the end of the mat with an cushion in the fleece. Then anything i can find been the air cushion and mat
The worst thing about a bivvy bag, is needing a pee in the night, or finding a slug on the face! 😫
Sleep wise, I'm not sure I've actually had a good night's sleep in a bivvy, nor a tent come to think about it. I don't know how the long distance road cyclists manage to get any sleep at all with their tales of sleeping in ditches and bus stops, maybe I'm just a big softy 😂
These are the three camping spots I've stayed at this summer, I've not used the bivvy bag at all this year. I do like my bivvy bag for stealth, but a tent is always more favourable to me.
I was perusing the tube last night, and found a reasonable number of "bivi" content makers who happily admitted they didnt get any sleep, (but still enjoyed it), but as far as i could tell they were all geting tangled up, and not getting along with the "Mummy" format of the bivi bag and sleeping bag, due to being side sleepers.
Quilts seem to solve this to some extent.
but a bivi bag remains a mummification.
How come you cant get big square bivi bags, for side sleepers.
You can buy (what purports to be) goretex off the roll on ebay, i wonder if making a dead simple rectangular envelope (single duvet cover size), combined with a quilt, would be a more comfortable option when combined with a quilt. Sure a bit of a weight penalty, but potentially worth it.
You could put loops on the corners and peg it down, to stop it from getting twisted up, form a simple box hood arrangement if needs be.
anyone made there own bivi gear?
Might as well have a lightweight tent at that point.
Ideas/advice?
Lightweight tent, decent mat/bag. Bivis are great for cold, dry, high mountain scenarios, less lovely in damp, UK conditions ime. Messing about trying to keep your kit dry, being snacked on by midges etc all suck. Fine for emergencies, racing etc, but I'll happily trade a few hundred extra grammes for better sleep.
I appreciate the attractions of the 'out there' adventure feel of a bivi bag, but while I have a couple of bivis, I rarely use them. Hooped ones are marginally better, but I still prefer an ultra-lightweight tent YMMV
My biggest issue with bivvying is making up to find i have slept through everything including the bloody sunrise i meant to take photos of.
How come you cant get big square bivi bags, for side sleepers.
Take a look at the robens mountain bivvy. It's roomy and easy to get in/out. My one is way lighter than list also.
im bivi bag curious, but can't you replicate the 'sleeping in the stars' experience just be opening the doors wide open on your tent? provided it has big enough doors
Yes, but you only get a small part of the sky, fingerbang. All the tents I've used have the sleeping area pretty well covered even with the door open. I don't see the problem with side sleeping so long as you don't have the mat in the bag. I rarely find sleeping a problem, I've usually made a significant effort before the bivi and crash out dead to the world.
in a tent with the door open, youre much more open to drafts and damp. A bivi bag is close to the sleeping bag, so keeps the breeze and drizzle off better. You also get a 360 degree sky, rather than just a little window.
you also dont need to put up a tent, which i realise takes a few minutes witha good tent, but theres something about just rolling out a bag and lying down. I dont really class a tent as "sleeping outside".
This is all based around bivvying for pleasure, so only really when you know the weather is going to be nice.
as soon there is a reasonable risk of rain, i would choose a tent.
with a bivi bag, if you get caught out in the rain, or a heavy dew, youre not totally scuppered, but it wouldnt be much fun.
Don't get hung up on the bivi bag thing. They're just an option. If you don't like them, don't sleep in them.
These days there's very little difference in weight, the only thing is that a bivi/tarp combo does work out a bit cheaper, but you can still get UL stuff for cheap. Like my Alpkit Tarpstar, 1kg for £180. Probably marginally larger than a tarp/bivi combo.
I don't see the problem with side sleeping so long as you don't have the mat in the bag.
And I'd suggest the opposite. I put my mat inside my bivvy bag. That gives it a "solid" base. I can then twist and turn in my sleeping bag and the base stays put. I guess it might be more of an issue for larger folk/smaller bivvy bags?
I'm a luddite and have been using a side-opening US Army goretex bag for quite a while. Is/are there any good wide, side-opening civilian alternatives?
Snugpak Stratosphere works for me. Condensation varies from nowt to apocalyptic depending on atmospherics. I wouldn't use it with a down bag. Side sleeping is no problem.
