You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Saw this on the BBC website.
Farmer showed some pretty impressive telehandler skills there!
He took a hell of a chance and I'm glad he got away with it.
Hopefully there won't be any repercussions from the yoofs involved.
I wonder if the police were called afterwards and whether they breathalysed the lad. That said, I think he was the passenger so presumably the driver had legged it!
Good on him to be honest, glad he was found not guilty
Sorry but how is it acceptable to take the law into your own hands like this? He claimed to have been in fear but he obviously provoked the yobs in the most extreme possible way!
"Burns had been drinking with friends at Low Force waterfall and was intending to walk 52 miles back to South Tyneside when he spotted his friend, Johnson, whose Corsa had suffered a double puncture, which was why they parked in the farmer’s lane, the jury heard."
WTF?!
Apparently he asked them to move a few times first and their response was to punch him in the face, then he got the telehandler and shifted the car.
Honestly they deserved it
Sorry but how is it acceptable to take the law into your own hands like this?
Good question. Unfortunately, there isn't a standard answer.
I wonder how the car got a double puncture, that's not usual is it?
The video seems to show the tyres weren’t punctured.
The yoofs also claimed there was no room to park it outside of the Farmer’s property yet in the video there’s clearly enough room outside of the gate for it to be dumped.
A lot of rural communities are blighted by these sort of yoofs so the farmer gets my vote. Had he not tipped the car over it’s reasonable to assume the yoofs would have driven it 52 miles whilst absolutely leathered.
Sorry but how is it acceptable to take the law into your own hands like this?
Because the law says you can, hence the verdict.
You have it get it right though.
I don't doubt for a second that the yoofs are thoroughly unpleasant and deserving of everything they got but I can't see that it's OK for a member of the public to dish out summary justice!
Unbelievable verdict, and equally amazing he got away with hitting the bloke with the loader.
Having said all of which, based on the limited info available, I'm glad he did.
I live near to where this happened.
The area around Low Force is very busy on good summer days, often chock a block, and cars double parked along the road.
Since this happened double yellows have been put along the road on both sides.
The farmers have been dealing with all kinds of anti sociable behaviour around the area for a long time.
The poor guy probably got to the end of his tether.
DrJ - what should the farmer have done?
2 oiks, one of whom was pissed; farmer had, allegedly, been assaulted; walking away and doing nothing causes the oiks to think they've 'won' and reinforces their belief they can do what they want without consequence.
Common sense and a very narrow interpretation prevailed in the courtroom so I see it as a great
decision.
"Sorry but how is it acceptable to take the law into your own hands like this?"
Fair point but as his lawyer says with his Mike Tyson quote, "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth "
I suppose it's all about the farmer being proportionate in his response?
In the heat of the moment though, after being assaulted... I can't help but be sympathetic with the farmer.
Sorry but how is it acceptable to take the law into your own hands like this
Because the law doesn't help in This case and the police aren't interested, so you have 2 options, rollover or rollover the car. I'm with the farmer.
Sorry but how is it acceptable to take the law into your own hands like this
Pray tell, what would YOU have done in the farmers position?
Good
We all have come across this type of individual. Mouthy , bolshy , tracky bottoms , white trainers , tins of Carling , one hand constantly checking their left testicle is still there .
They know the police wont to anything , and , in the unlikely event to rozzers do rock up they will get a slapped wrist , if anything at all.
Mr Farmer might have been better off picking up their mums Corsa and driving off up the lane at 10mph with the hapless yoof chasing , one hand cupping their left testicle , the other trying to stop their Adidas 3 stripes from falling down to their ankles and tripping them up.
Then carefully parking it on top of a dry stone wall / shipping container for them.
I know a few farmers * , and if you had genuinely broken down / had 2 punctures then they would do their upmost to help you.
Smack them in the mouth and what you saw in that video would be at the tame end of the scale
* one of them is a pig farmer and his nickname is Bricktop 😂
Farmer seems to have been disproportionate to me - wasn't the punch in the face once he started rolling the car?
Yoofs well dodgy also - 2 punctures, drunk, about to walk 52 miles? LOL
We all have come across this type of individual. Mouthy , bolshy , tracky bottoms , white trainers , tins of Carling , one hand constantly checking their left testicle is still there .
I thought I was in the Cannock Chase picture thread for a minute there...
I'm glad the farmer was acquitted.
I'm with the farmer on this one too.
Presumably though he is still liable for damages? Just not criminal damage?
I'm glad.
52 mile walk home... aye right
but I can’t see that it’s OK for a member of the public to dish out summary justice!
I don't think that is the decision that the jury came to. My understanding is that in this particular case they recognised the Common Law principle that everyone has the right to use reasonable force to defend their home against intruders.
It should be remembered that the jury will have based their decision on all the evidence provided to them, not simply that Guardian article.
Worth bearing in mind that news reports never have the full facts that the jury had.
If its the same as the self defence rule, its presumably what the farmer felt was "reasonable" at the time and in those circumstances. The same rule that means you can shoot or stab someone to protect yourself - obviously you then need to provide evidence to the Police, CPS and ultimately the jury to support your claim of reasonableness.
See, this is the type of case I’d be useless at in jury service.
‘Farmer not guilty, lock the others up for being knobs’.
Get a job in the prison service & you’ll be of the same mindset.
Get a job in the prison service & you’ll be of the same mindset.
You are Mr MacKay and I claim my 5 bars of soap.
Get down, Sprocket.
This is a disgraceful verdict. Now, farmers up and down the country will take the law into their own hands and remove whatever they percieve as a threat. Retrial, etc, etc.
one of them is a pig farmer and his nickname is Bricktop
Are you suggesting that this is 'a righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent'?
Excellent result. It backs up the idea that we should stand up to the jerks that wish to screw up our lives. No life was lost so nothing even slightly serious to get upset about. Once you break the law in even the slighest way you have chosen to disregard the society you live in. At that point you have chosen to remove yourself from the perks of society as well. If only every idiot parker was dealt the same way.
You are Mr MacKay and I claim my 5 bars of soap.
To be fair I was much more like Mr Barraclough but I could tell the difference between an arsewipe & your basic twerp.
It comes with experience.
Excellent result. It backs up the idea that we should stand up to the jerks that wish to screw up our lives. No life was lost so nothing even slightly serious to get upset about. Once you break the law in even the slighest way you have chosen to disregard the society you live in. At that point you have chosen to remove yourself from the perks of society as well. If only every idiot parker was dealt the same way.
Absolutely & well said. Watch out for the snowflakes incoming though.
I think many people are sick to the back teeth of
Mouthy , bolshy , tracky bottoms , white trainers , tins of Carling , one hand constantly checking their left testicle is still there
so I absolutely, 100% agree with what the farmer did.
Its a no-win situation though. Call the police and they do sweet f.all. Fight back then end up in court.
Add all the recent stuff with the Met (misogyny, fascism, BoJo's #10 pissups, rapist murderer cop etc etc etc) and its no wonder people don't trust the folk in blue.
STW in siding with a farmer/landowner taking maverick action to destroy mode of transport shocker!
I seem to have an almost thirty year irrational hatred of the Vauxhall Corsa, so I was slightly gratified to see one being tipped like that.
Burns had been drinking with friends at Low Force waterfall and was intending to walk 52 miles back to South Tyneside when he spotted his friend, Johnson, whose Corsa had suffered a double puncture, which was why they parked in the farmer’s lane, the jury heard
...and was intending to walk 52 miles back to South Tyneside
Chinny-reck-on though.
No life was lost so nothing even slightly serious to get upset about
Pushing somebody over with a telehandler fork could easily turn in to something very serious.
It makes me think of the 'nudging a protester with a Range Rover' video; pure chance that there was not a serious injury, and the driver in each situation is not able to fully control the potential consequence of their action on the person outside of the vehicle.
.... I wonder who took the video 🤔
Farmer seems to have been disproportionate to me – wasn’t the punch in the face once he started rolling the car?
Nope before.
Pushing somebody over with a telehandler fork could easily turn in to something very serious.
And that was totally on bell end number 1. Didn't look deliberate at all from the farmer, the idiot put himself right in the wrong place desperately trying to film it all.
Pushing somebody over with a telehandler fork could easily turn in to something very serious.
The jury apparently accepted that it was completely unintentional.
I assume that they discussed it among themselves after seeing and hearing the evidence.
Pushing somebody over with a telehandler fork could easily turn in to something very serious.
Walking alongside a reversing vehicle could easily lead to something serious.
…. I wonder who took the video
Errrr! The car owner.
and was intending to walk 52 miles back to South Tyneside
Oh aye, forgot about that but, must’ve been ex SAS/SBS/RM/Para’s. Bless. 😂
It backs up the idea that we should stand up to the jerks that wish to screw up our lives.
Maybe I wouldn't have been so blunt, but this.
But I accept that "reasonable force" is a tricky one. You can't judge it exactly in the heat of the moment, it can escalate and go badly wrong for either party.
Hope you're never pushed into that kind of situation.
Walking alongside a reversing vehicle could easily lead to something serious.
Especially when drunk and after physically kicking the fork lift. According to my risk assessment.
Especially when drunk and after physically kicking the fork lift. According to my risk assessment
I concur.
Limited disagreement with this verdict but for anyone who does disagree, see my question to DrJ on page 1 - what would YOU have done in the circumstances?
The oiks/chavs deserved what they got.
The farmer was acquitted.
The end.
I have to say when I first saw this video a few weeks back I was pretty shocked by the farmers actions and felt he ought to be prosecuted, but I don’t feel that way now. I think there is still an argument he acted disproportionately, but we have no real idea of what transpired beforehand. The people who acquitted him presumably did.
I also think it was probably a pretty upsetting incident for him. I doubt he feels as gung ho about it as some of those applauding his actions, especially as you’re pretty vulnerable on a farm to theft or vandalism…
Chinny-reck-on
Oh Jimmy Hill
But yes, I’m with the farmer on this one… just in case anyone is counting votes.
Firstly, that telehandler probably won't even have 100bhp, more like 60bhp.
Secondly, fully understand the frustration of rude people parking in front of very obvious access and it has only increased the last couple of years.
I was once spotted by the police eyeing up a car for a solid tow point to move it with the forestry winch on the tractor. Their only request was to not do it whilst they were watching.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike...
I'd imagine, if it wasn't for the video it wouldn't get as far as court.
A business near me has, on a regular basis shifted cars not particularly carefully with forklifts, when folks have parked in the way to avoid paying for parking at the football ground.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike…
Do you often punch farmers?
Do you often punch farmers?
Only if they keep a tally of cyclists they've knocked over on the side of their telehandler.
Farmer: I need access. you need to move it.
Chav lad : no. Blah blah blah. What you gonna do about it?
Farmer: either you move it or I will.
Chav lad: oh ****.
Big difference between him getting in the way of a massive bit of machinery and purposely nudging a sitting protester, especially with the parking sensors screaming at you.
I'm with the Farmer on this one.
It should be remembered that the jury will have based their decision on all the evidence provided to them, not simply that Guardian article.
Exactly, with the facts around the situation and acts of the people in the car.
I don't think the farmer should have done what he did and I am sure if I parked my car there and he came and talked to me about it, it would not have ended in the same way AT ALL.
He should have phoned the police as he had been assaulted and had people parked on his drive.
I'm not with the farmer on this one. He took the law into his own hands and it was just luck the yob wasnt killed. Had those forks struck him on the head the result could well have been fatal.
A self defence plea only applies if they are coming at you and you cannot escape, or if they've entered your home are there with you, and you are in fear of your life
Step outside the safety of your home and you become an aggressor. The farmer went back, ignored the phone, didnt call the police but armed himself with a dangerous weapon, a telehandler, which he proceeded to wield as though it were a weapon.
He was assaulted and became enraged.
What did you think the police were going to do? The car blocking access is a civil matter, they wouldn't be interested, as for the assault, they might have attended, probably not, and the car was still blocking his drive.
This is actually likely to get worse if the government push forward with the parking bill, they are proposing to halve the PCN value which will make legal enforcement commercial unviable. A lot of smaller car parks, pubs for example in beauty spots wont have any controlled way of managinb yhe parking so we will see an increase of people being blocked in, cars moved by force or disabled. People may not like the private parking companies but at least they allow you to drive away and you have multiple chances to appeal, your car isn't being held for ransom.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike…
Don't break Rule#1 and I reckon you won't have a problem.
I’m not with the farmer on this one. He took the law into his own hands...
You've misunderstood a lot of law thete, which was explained to the jury along with ALL the evidence. And which rather misses the point that the law has backed him up. Yes, it could have gone wrong but that's just Internet whatabouttery. The lad could have pulled a knife and we'd have been watching a video of him stabbing the farmer, but he didn't.
And I get the impression that the farmer may not do the same thing, with hindsight.
Had the youth not previously attacked him and had he not continued to try and attack him in the telehandler - I'd be willing to bet that the farmers intention was simply to move the car, not to flip it/smash it up. In the end he seemed somewhat forced into a rushed job. That telehandler could've easily just picked it up between the wheels and moved it elsewhere without seriously damaging it and I'd guess the farmer is a dab hand at using it.
What did you think the police were going to do?
As you have just been assaulted and the person who assaulted you is still there then I would expect the police to come out and deal with it.
Had those forks struck him on the head the result could well have been fatal.
But neither of those things happened so it's pointless talking about them.
armed himself with a dangerous weapon, a telehandler
You arm yourself with a dangerous weapon every time you get on your bike.
He used a suitable tool to remove an illegally parked vehicle that was access to his property.
In what was did tipping the yob’s car over serve as self defence? If the farmer had stabbed him with a pitch fork it would make more sense.
Good job by the farmer 🙂
Again people missing the point, tipping the car was not self defence, he was charged with criminal damage and dangerous driving. The jury obviously felt removing the car was a reasonable act and not one of the offences. The most serious offence here which wasn't prosecuted was the assault on the farmer by the yobs.
Keeley, would be nice if they did respond but you really can't rely on the police coming to your aid and even if they do with clear evidence they won't do much and the car on the drive is a civil issue so nothing they could do. Calling the police would have been pretty self defeating in this case, the police are no longer there for this sort of community support.
I am not with the farmer, I am with the jury.
I don't know if the farmer acted reasonably under the circumstances, I wasn't there and I haven't seen or heard all the evidence. However in all probability imo the jury acted reasonably in their verdict.
Unlike all the parties involved in the incident the jury's decision will have been made in a calm and reflective manner.
What did you think the police were going to do? The car blocking access is a civil matter, they wouldn’t be interested
Exactly. Although there is probably a case to be made for changes in the law imo.
In what was did tipping the yob’s car over serve as self defence? If the farmer had stabbed him with a pitch fork it would make more sense.
The farmer was removing an obstruction to access the road.
The driver could have moved it. Double puncture or not.
The only issue I see is operating the farm machinery with an albeit drunk pedestrian in close proximity.
I'd imagine the court decided that the lad put himself in harm's way and wasn't injured.
As you have just been assaulted and the person who assaulted you is still there then I would expect the police to come out and deal with it.
LOLs to that. My son and three mates were assaulted by a group of 15 kids before Christmas. He was pushed about and his mate was gubbed twice fairly substantially. The police know who did it, have multiple witnesses and have done absolutely **** all.
That telehandler could’ve easily just picked it up between the wheels and moved it elsewhere without seriously damaging it and I’d guess the farmer is a dab hand at using it.
Doubt it, the forks are far too short to lift it axially and if there was enough room to get in from the side then there was enough room to drive by.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike…
Don’t break Rule#1 and I reckon you won’t have a problem.
You think? Been here long enough and heard enough stories to know you just have to be pushing a bike to get hassle. If they were to block you and then you 'barged' through them would they take the right to 'defend' themselves?
Had those forks struck him on the head the result could well have been fatal.
But neither of those things happened so it’s pointless talking about them.
Interesting, so next time one of us gets close passed does that make it okay as long as nobody gets hurt?
I realise context is everything but when you're handling industrial machinery there are no second chances.
I also realise the jury will have been instructed to take all this into account but it's still a fair point, that could have gone very badly wrong.
In truth though the number of people who do get hassle just for pushing a bike is pretty small, and I can’t really see it getting worse just because of this incident.
Close passing and the publics attitude to cyclists is indeed a problem, but I don’t really see what this incident has to do with that. The lads weren’t cyclists, and they were (from all accounts) behaving like complete ****s. I suspect there was quite a bit of adrenaline flowing at the time, and I’m not convinced it was the farmers intention to roll the car over. Had it just been picked up, with resulting damage to the exhaust, chassis or whatever, and deposited on the verge, would we still be talking about it? Not sure, but the dramatic pictures certainly raised the profile of this incident.
I don’t actually condone what he did. This incident could have ended very badly, but I’m pretty relaxed about the acquittal.
You think? Been here long enough and heard enough stories to know you just have to be pushing a bike to get hassle.
I’ve been here long enough to know out of 20 years I’ve been here, the thousands of members all those miles covered across the whole of the UK in that time it’s a tiny proportion. I also know that being asked politely to move your car the answer is not to punch someone.
... assuming he asked politely, of course.
assuming he asked politely, of course.
Of course but the jury decided he may have. Not sure punching him in the face helped regardless.
Don’t break Rule#1 and I reckon you won’t have a problem.
Dunno, farmers are as varied in their temperament as the rest of humanity, some will doubtless feel a bit emboldened to 'assert themselves more vigorously' off the back of this ruling, doesn't mean it was the wrong result though...
The farmer was within his rights to move their car, and arguably with less care than he might otherwise have due to the ongoing threats and violent behaviour being shown...
TBH those scrotes were lucky they whipped the iPhones out and started recording. Otherwise the police find themselves attending an upsidedown corsa on a country lane, two pissed, shirtless chavs jabbering about a telehandler, and a farmer claiming no knowledge of any such events, if that were the case someone's license is being taken and no farmers are going to court...
Another excellent example of why we should cherish our jury system.
Keeley, would be nice if they did respond but you really can’t rely on the police coming to your aid
You can't rely on it no, but you should try that as first course of action. Should you deal with all criminal activity yourself and never call the police as they may not come/be interested?
I have had to call them a few times and they always came round very quickly and took it seriously, maybe I was lucky.
Close passing and the publics attitude to cyclists is indeed a problem, but I don’t really see what this incident has to do with that.
The incident itself? Nothing. But the sentiment behind the statement I was responding to? Everything.
I’ve been here long enough to know out of 20 years I’ve been here, the thousands of members all those miles covered across the whole of the UK in that time it’s a tiny proportion. I also know that being asked politely to move your car the answer is not to punch someone.
Again, look at the comment I was replying to rather than taking my quote in isolation. Cookeaa was on the money.
Both fair points. I wonder what this result will do to their claims for compensation? 😀
Again, look at the comment I was replying to rather than taking my quote in isolation
I did.