[Closed] Get in !! (Athletics Spoiler)

Very rarely I shout at the tv, just did

Thank **** for that

😀

the right person won (not the drug cheat 😆

Well not one who's been caught yet... 😉

hmmmm - I was going to say "I hope turns out clean" but figured that would be a bit churlish

It's just a daily mail type comment on the current situation in athletics. I hope coe can do something to remove any such concerns from anyone who works hard enough and has the talent to dominate their sport like bolt and farah

Surprised no complaints at the lack of spoiler given the non obvious title.

Worth a read...

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ah, sorry mrblobby - fair point

please feel free to report the thread (too late for me to amend title)

(I've just reported your post, so hopefully that'll do it)

Part of me kinda hope that Gatlin won, just to help kick up even more of a fuss over doping, but glad Bolt got it in the end.

It's just a daily mail type comment on the current situation in athletics. I hope coe can do something to remove any such concerns from anyone who works hard enough and has the talent to dominate their sport like bolt and farah

Not sure I can take your post seriously Coe cleaning up? You think he was clean 😆

Is that sprint factory book from before all the Jamaicans got popped?

Lovely Jess won a gold too 😀

Lovely Katrina didn't 🙁

Jessica is radiant while Katarina Johnson-Thompson looks gloomy (not smiling etc whatever) but if she can cheer up a bit more she can be the next champion.

Bolt with his cheerful personality carried him through.

😛

superb results for Ennis-hill and Bolt.. definitely something you wouldn't have put your house on 6months ago.

Jess hand Usain have lovely smiles 🙂

It's odd to accept whatever rules allow Gatlin to compete after his past... Bolt was nervous and ran poorly. Luck was on his side.

Dirtyrider - evidence of anything to the contrary please as would be genuinely interested. Pleased Bolt won but a twice convicted drug cheat is still on the podium #shameoniaaf #boycottnike

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Delighted Bolt won.

Jessica is fabulous and such a great advert for althetics. Katrina vs Jess will be epic at the Olympics, had Kattinas's long jump counted she would probably have won gold. Will be interesting to see how she goes in the long jump as she's entered for that too.

jambalaya - Member
Jessica is fabulous and such a great advert for althetics. Katrina vs Jess will be epic at the Olympics, had Kattinas's long jump counted she would probably have won gold. Will be interesting to see how she goes in the long jump as she's entered for that too.

Ya, Katrina's 3rd jump nearly won her a gold but the entire strategy was wrong from the start go.

I would get her to not to fault in the first jump (not matter how poor) just to avoid the 3 strikes to stay in the game then she can do whatever she wants in the remaining two. She was faulted by 0.01 over the clay mark in her 3rd jump ... arrghhh ...

In her 3rd jump she could have played it safe just to fight another day in other events in order to get a medal but she went for broke.

Apart from that I think if she can relax or cheer up a bit she will be the next champion but at the moment she is inexperience in big stage. She lacks confidence.

😀

Dirtyrider - evidence of anything to the contrary please as would be genuinely interested

what year did they ban blood doping?

Did anyone else see the Beeb infographic??? that showed Bolt was travelling at 29mph when he crossed the line 😯 29mph?????? I find that mind boggling.

what year did they ban blood doping?

1984?

Is that sprint factory book from before all the Jamaicans got popped?

After. Worth a read. Author is someone who's been reporting on cycling for years too.

Bolt does the double in style quite a margin 🙂

Hughes runs a PB in the lane between Gatlin and Bolt, great performance and hopefully he can go better in Rio.

Always prefer a show off to a cheat 😀 Nice one.

Not sure I can take your post seriously Coe cleaning up? You think he was clean

Cleaner than Bolt

When Gatlin was (found to be) cheating, did he run slower or faster than he runs now ?

slower, he's a lot fast now,

In the case of Gatlin, you have an athlete, at 33, running faster than he did at 24, ostensibly without the benefit of steroids. Think that through.

http://sportsscientists.com/2015/05/the-gatlin-dilemma/

@Dirtyrider are you going to give any evidence for the Coe slur above?

Of the top 5 fastest sprinters in the world (including his training partner Yohan Blake) Bolt is the only one who hasn't been busted for P.E.D.s

Make of that what you will.

I will make of that that you have no proof he cheats but want to insinuate it nonetheless
Am I right?

Did I insinuate that he cheats? Do I have to insinuate that he cheats? I think the facts insinuate that he cheats. But only time will tell.

For what it's worth even if Bolt got busted tomorrow I wouldn't feel any ill will, all of his competitors are juiced to the ****ing tits. That's a fact. If he's on PEDs too, then really so what.

If he did a Lance, and started attacking anyone who questioned him, it might be a different story though.

I'm not saying anything - I want to believe!

Fastest ever 100m times (times of those who have doped redacted in red).....

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Only in China...

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My personal view. He's clean. Clearly he is genetically different from your typical sprinter-taller & leaner. I think he's a one-off freak-of-nature for want of a better term. He's raised the bar and other people have had to cheat to try to compete at his level.

The fact the all his rivals have already been caught just suggests to me the testing is working, giving more support to him being clean.

As above his running style and the limb length, whole of his physical make up make him able to travel very fast when up to speed. His start is ragged as he has to get those limbs into shape for speed (upright and flowing in a straight line). For most of us the 100m is about power for him it's a mix of power and the flow of his gangly frame

This is similar to the thread on Farah where a number of people asserted that he was taking drugs (without any evidence) We will never know if Bolt is clean or not as you will always have people like Dirtyrider who make baseless accusations 30+ years later.

Bolt is popular at the moment but that shouldnt give him a free pass. I dont know if he is on drugs (I hope he isnt) but this whole thing is hardly objective. Bolt is innocent as is Seb Coe as neither have been found guilty of taking drugs. We slur one but see the other as the "peoples champion! !

I'm 50:50 on whether he's clean, on the one hand he obviously has an abnormal stride length and good leg speed to go with it but if that's all it takes to give you a big edge why are most sprinters short and stocky - if there's lots of lanky kids running fast times growing up a few must have good leg speed to and would have made the grade. Also the Jamaican anti-doping program used to be a joke, not sure if it's improved the last few years but it was still a joke when Bolt burst onto the scene.

We will never know if Bolt is clean or not as you will always have people like Dirtyrider who make baseless accusations 30+ years later.

Let's not forget insinuating you are a naïve idiot if you're happy not to make un-evidenced accusations. 🙂

Guess it might just be me, but the whole doping in sport thing doesn't irk me at all. I'd let them do it. Just declare it.

Clearly he is genetically different from your typical sprinter-taller & leaner. I think he's a one-off freak-of-nature for want of a better term.

I was going to counter this with similar to Fuzzywuzzy....

he obviously has an abnormal stride length and good leg speed to go with it but if that's all it takes to give you a big edge why are most sprinters short and stocky - if there's lots of lanky kids running fast times growing up a few must have good leg speed to and would have made the grade.

Loads of sports are in many ways like a massively speeded up version of natural selection. Very quickly the best shape for a specific sport comes to the fore. I'd argue that the fact that Bolt isn't a similar shape to other elite sprinters is more not less of a reason to suspect something (which I'm trying really hard not to!). But then look at the difference between body shape in the women's final and maybe it's an irrelevance!

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OT - in a sport measured in thousandths of a second where marginal gains must be everything, why would you drag around all that hair!

This is similar to the thread on Farah where a number of people asserted that he was taking drugs

A number of people asserted drug taking was as rife within athletics, and especially distance running, as in cycling, a number of people (including yourself) adamantly denied that was the case. Have you noticed the revelations that have come out since then?

I once lined up against Hugh Jones in a 10k. I'd never heard of him (despite him being at University in Liverpool the same time as me) Seeing him warm up I took little notice of him. He was awesome and went on to win the race and the London Marathon a couple of years later. His "style" couldnt be described as "smooth" but he was certainly effective.
Its about a number of factors and not all of them look efficient to the naked eye.

A number of people asserted drug taking was as rife within athletics, and especially distance running, as in cycling, a number of people (including yourself) adamantly denied that was the case. Have you noticed the revelations that have come out since then?

I think you have a convenient recollection of that thread. I did not "adamantly" deny that distance runners took drugs as you assert. As in this thread I would like to see at least some evidence before castigating athletes. You indicated that Salazar was on drugs in spite of the fact that he had never failed a drugs test. The fact that he ran high mileage in training was a sign that he was doping to you whereas to me it may have been the root of his success.
By all means reopen the thread.

I think you have a convenient recollection of that thread

😆

Did I insinuate that he cheats? Do I have to insinuate that he cheats? I think the facts insinuate that he cheats. But only time will tell

Yes you di, No you dont have to but you did
Facts cannot insinuate anything
Time wont convince you unless he fails a test as you have decided he cheats without evidence and one cannot prove a negative.

Was Bolts doping results not suspicious in that leak?
I thought that both his and Farahs were not suspicious and therefore "clean".

All these debates show is that some sports are in such a dire place that some people, and I can see why , will think any and all winners must be cheats due to past behaviours.

Given that I do hope he is clean and I have seen no evidence , except being fast, to suggest he is.

IMO Bolt is clean. He's a very special athlete, the others are cheating to try and get close to him.

IMO Bolt is clean. He's a very special athlete, the others are cheating to try and get close to him.

if he's clean, he's better than anyone there has ever been, on all the drugs they have been EVER EVER,

shall we chuck in Dafne Schippers, just won the 200m womens, and became the 3rd fastest ever

a white european at no3 😆

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Jones and especially FloJos records should be expunged at once. Especially FloJos.

You indicated that Salazar was on drugs in spite of the fact that he had never failed a drugs test.

Yes but he did train at Athletics West which had a known drugs program. Interesting Coe also did some training with Athletics West, which is why he is best buddies with Salazar. If there is one thing that the LA thing showed its that the company you keep is a better indicator of being clean or not than drug tests.

one thing that the LA thing showed its that the company you keep is a better indicator of being clean or not than drug tests.

What a load of rubbish!

Most sprinters aren't short. They are powerfully built. The power and fast twitch muscles combine to make them move quickly with pretty impressive stride lengths when up to speed. Bolt is taller and by whatever dint of nature is able have good leg speed. He is not particularly good at getting it all flowing until upright, although he is damn fast at it, but when in his stride in the mid part of the race he pulls away from the competition, fast legs long stride and quick feet. Shorter sprinters are better over the shorter sprints. Height of the average indoor 60m would be lower because they can get the power out quicker and into their running over a shorter burst.

Junkyard - lazarus

Yes you di, No you dont have to but you did
Facts cannot insinuate anything
Time wont convince you unless he fails a test as you have decided he cheats without evidence and one cannot prove a negative.

It's an interesting phenomenon that facts can't insinuate anything, but stating facts such as "of the top 5 fastest sprinters in the world, Bolt is the only one who hasn't tested positive" is an insinuation.

To me it makes zero difference. Even if he got popped tomorrow what does it prove other than that there was a level playing field? As things currently sit, he's the fastest man who ever lived, even competing against chemically enhanced competition. Tomorrow, if he was caught, he'd be the fastest man who ever lived, who just happened to be doping, like all of his competitors.

It's strange that people latch on to athletes and hope that they aren't cheating. Remember how Carl Lewis was hailed as such a righteous hero when Ben Johnson beat him? How he started hinting that everyone around him was cheating. People vilified Johnson, when the only mistake he made was getting caught. We know now Lewis was doping too and apparently was wearing braces because he was on so much HGH it was deforming his jaw. But Johnson will still be remembered as the villain.

And then you have the Lance thing, people on forums going ballistic at anyone who insinuated that he was doping. Now he's the devil.

Or people who think that soccer isn't dirty. I think Bolt is an incredible athlete, and seems a thoroughly nice guy. As it happens my cousin works extremely closely with him and likes him. But I think it's naive or short sighted to project some idea of sporting ethical perfection on to him, or any other elite professional athlete.

It's an interesting phenomenon that facts can't insinuate anything, but stating facts such as "of the top 5 fastest sprinters in the world, Bolt is the only one who hasn't tested positive" is an insinuation.

To me it makes zero difference. Even if he got popped tomorrow what does it prove other than that there was a level playing field? As things currently sit, he's the fastest man who ever lived, even competing against chemically enhanced competition. Tomorrow, if he was caught, he'd be the fastest man who ever lived, who just happened to be doping, like all of his competitors.

It's strange that people latch on to athletes and hope that they aren't cheating. Remember how Carl Lewis was hailed as such a righteous hero when Ben Johnson beat him? How he started hinting that everyone around him was cheating. People vilified Johnson, when the only mistake he made was getting caught. We know now Lewis was doping too and apparently was wearing braces because he was on so much HGH it was deforming his jaw. But Johnson will still be remembered as the villain.

And then you have the Lance thing, people on forums going ballistic at anyone who insinuated that he was doping. Now he's the devil.

Or people who think that soccer isn't dirty. I think Bolt is an incredible athlete, and seems a thoroughly nice guy. As it happens my cousin works extremely closely with him and likes him. But I think it's naive or short sighted to project some idea of sporting ethical perfection on to him, or any other elite professional athlete.

Yep, Carl Lewis got away with it and Ben Johnson is forever remembered as the cheat.

It's the same people who came out with the nonsense about Lance being 'special' and couldn't possibly be cheating, who swear to god Bolt must be clean.

The info posted up by convert on the first page is a pretty good indication that the chances are, bolt is/has been doping.

I agree with your post entirely.

It's nice to believe that these 'special' athletes come around and can beat everyone else who is doping with hard work and god given talent.

The thing is, it's just not very realistic.........

The trouble is that nobody can prove they are clean, the only proof is by getting caught. Until then you're just someone who hasn't failed a drugs test. And the fact that so many past winners have been exposed means that the current winners are implicitly accused (by some) of cheating too.

It's a no win situation for the likes of bolt or farah. Innocent until proven guilty should be the way to deal with them but that relies on a trustworthy and independent governing body, and do they have that?

I reckon hes clean..as above, just a completely diffrent stride length and style. Stands to reason if he needs less steps to run 100 m he should be quicker.

Also...when he was so far ahead of everyone a few years back...why would he risk it. He was winning by miles, drugs don't make you that much quicker than all the field

tpbiker - Member

I reckon hes clean..as above, just a completely diffrent stride length and style. Stands to reason if he needs less steps to run 100 m he should be quicker.

Just musing here, not having a go at you tpbiker, but isn't saying he's just different, or he's a genetic freak, or he's blah blah as big a disservice as saying he's doping?

One thing we can be sure of is that all these guys, clean or dirty are killing themselves in training day in day out all year round. To attribute Bolt's success to a quirk of genetics just seems to sell him short.

Conventional wisdom based on (how) many years of sprinting is that it requires a powerful, muscular shape. And Bolt is a gangle. Maybe he's at a huge genetic disadvantage but he just outworks these guys with a superior ethic (with or without drugs). Just musing.

Also...when he was so far ahead of everyone a few years back...why would he risk it.

Money. Lots of money. He's wealthy beyond my wildest dreams but not mega rich for a dominant star athlete.

I don't think he's doping and I truly hope he's clean, it'd destroy the sport if he wasn't. But if he did get found to be doping it wouldn't be a huge shock given his dominance in such a tainted event and given the number of Jamaican athletes that got pinged as well.

I wouldn't say its a disservice. Every athlete works to their genetic strengths and he is no different. I also don't think anyone is saying he's faster just because of his stride; clearly he's put in the work to get everything together to run fast on the day - fitness, technique, mental strength etc.

I just think it's just a factor that makes it plausible that he should have an advantage over other athletes. In sprint events it's such fine margins that small differences matter. In the 100m he was only 0.001% better than Gattlin on the day.

saw this posted elswhere

from here

http://leastthing.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/more-fast-sprinters-than-ever.html

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But I think it's naive or short sighted to project some idea of sporting ethical perfection on to him, or any other elite professional athlete.

IMHO your view that its better to assume any winner is almost definitely cheating is pessimistic in the extreme

Some will and some wont.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34089451

Nice article on here about how he does it/how anyone runs fast.

That commentator Brendan Foster is really getting on my tIts!

Is he living the life of Mo? I mean all his comments sounded as if he was the one running ...

Given that Brendan was actually pretty good at distance running himself (like you perhaps?) he has some insight on what it takes. His job is to get it across to those that have never competed at such a level what its like, would your experienced based knowledge be better?

was actually pretty good at distance running himself

Love him or hate him he was the real deal, proper northern hard core distance runner. The story about him promising to run a world record if Gateshead built a track is class. They did, and true to his word he came back and broke the world 3000m world record on it!

Is that evidence Dirtyrider? You dont seem to have much do you?

a white european at no3

5 in the top ten 🙂

Interesting that the other 4 are all East Germans. Not insinuating anything there, just commenting...

I think its reasonable to insinuate about east german results