[Closed] German Market . . . .

Merkel comes out of this with far more credit than Seehofer

How exactiy. A lot of her political allies are being very critical, never mind her enemies. She created the draw with her inviation and dropped the rest of the EU and her security forces into the mire for which they where unprepared and could not have been prepared.

This attack was predictable, I predicted it. I said the refugee/migrantcrises was mismanaged and terrorists wouod use it as a cover. IS have been publically calling for such attacks. As for the Nice comparison he was radicalised by IS very quickly. The Begians have woefully inadequate security rescources and are one of Europes lowest spenders on defence.

This attack was predictable, I predicted it. I said the refugee/migrantcrises was mismanaged and terrorists wouod use it as a cover. IS have been publically calling for such attacks. As for the Nice comparison he was radicalised by IS very quickly. The Begians have woefully inadequate security rescources and are one of Europes lowest spenders on defence.

the likely consequences of a co-ordinated Western military attack on China to force regime change

Whilst it's undeniable that the West is the responsible for triggering most of the Arab Spring it's facile to say every nation would respond to having it's leadership ousted with a Civil war! France narrowly avoided a civil war when the Allie liberated it. In contrast Germany and Japan had homogenous poulations who had broadly the same aims and had no need whatseover to fight amogst each other for their way of doing things. The problem with (say) Iraq was that it was populated with three different tribes with totally different desires. If Iraq had been 100pc (say) Sunni there would have been a fairly peaceful transition to some kind of new government. If it had been 100pc Persian Shia it wold have simply become defacto part of Iran as a large chunck of Iraq effectively has.

I've only been to China once but I suspect China is more like (say) post war Germany and doesn't have a Civil war waiting in the Wings that will kick off if something happened to the current establishment.

outofbreath - Member

Whilst it's undeniable that the West is the responsible for triggering most of the Arab Spring

I would deny that completely.

While Western governments without doubt made the best of a bad thing, the "Arab Spring" was the last thing they wanted. They did however steer it to serve their best interests, and helped to crush it where it didn't.

The West was not responsible for triggering "most of the Arab Spring".

The Han form the majority of the Chinese ethnic mix by a large percentage, this majority is so big that if the rest did try to rise io they wouldn't last long, as see by the recent issues with their muslim population.

I would deny that completely.

Well 22 minutes ago you were quite on board with the idea which is far from controversial!

the "Arab Spring" was the last thing they wanted.

That's certainly true, they just didn't think it through when they deposed Saddam.

The Han form the majority of the Chinese Ethnic mix by a large percentage, this majority is so big that if the rest did try to rise io they woildnt last long

Ta! That certainly supports my guess.

Well 22 minutes ago you were quite on board with the idea which is far from controversial!

Well I've just checked in case there was a vague possibility that I had lost my marbles, and no, said no such thing.

The "Arab Spring" had nothing to do with deposing Saddam btw.

The "Arab Spring" had nothing to do with deposing Saddam btw.

Deposing Saddam effectively *began* the Arab spring.

But you're dodging the issue. You're saying that if the Chinese establishment was deposed by the West there would be a meltdown of the kind we see in the Middle East.

I'm saying you're wrong.

I'm saying you're wrong.

Well, there's only one way to find out.

*applause* 😀

As for the Nice comparison he was radicalised by IS very quickly.

there's little/scant evidence is was radicalised by outside agencies at all. The belief (certainly by the French authorities) is that he was "self radicalised"

I'm at a total loss as to how you'd stop such a strategy of terror and this sort of thing occurring again. Anyone?

The answer(s) are suprisingly simple but you might not like them.

Find a country that is not under terrorist threat and think about why not. Better still think back to before we were and what changed.

I'm at a total loss as to how you'd stop such a strategy of terror and this sort of thing occurring again. Anyone?

Tesla lorries.

Find a country that is not under terrorist threat and think about why not. Better still think back to before we were and what changed.

I'm saying you're wrong.

Thanks, but I was aware of that.

If you want to say that what began with a Tunisian street vendor setting himself alight was all because Saddam Hussein had been deposed 7 years earlier then that's up to you. Go for it.

Phobia means irrational fear, islamophobia is an oxymoron.

Phobia means irrational fear, islamophobia is an oxymoron.

Some comments on Tunisia's problems with radical Islamists. Tunisia is IS most successful recruiting ground and recruiters are paid big money

The dangers posed to the country by radicalization can be seen in the 2015 terror attacks on the Bardo Museum and a hotel in Sousse. Over 60, mostly foreign, tourists were killed. There was a further attack in November 2015, this time on the presidential guard, indicating that youth radicalization would appear to be on the increase.
Recruiters are paid between $3,000 and $10,000 (2,900-9,600 euros) for each new person they sign up, according to information gathered by the United Nations. According to the Tunisian government, actions are already underway to hinder the recruiting process, including targeting mosques where radical preachers are known to disseminate their views.
The Tunisian government has also taken repressive measures. More than 15,000 suspected extremists have been monitored since the beginning of the year, according to officials, with 700 added after the Sousse attack. Tunisians under the age of 35 are no longer able to travel freely to Libya, Turkey or Serbia, typical transit countries to Syria and Iraq.

http://www.dw.com/en/tunisias-radicalized-youth/a-36868952

I'm at a total loss as to how you'd stop such a strategy of terror and this sort of thing occurring again. Anyone?

1, stop promoting inciting and supplying weapons and wars into the Middle East
2. create safe and legal forms of entry into Europe
3. set public policy around understanding and acceptance of immigration.

what do I win?

captainsasquatch - Member

I'm saying you're wrong.

Well, there's only one way to find out.

To all you thinkers which do you should come first political reform or economical reform.

Which one is EU and which one is Middle East?

Merkel getting an absolute pasting from a commentator on Sky, Professor Anthony Gees. She is responsible and must go. Attacks where flagged by US and others, no effective security in place at obvious targets, asylum seekers not really checked etc. Privacy laws in Germany are "excessive" and inadequate for today's threats. German Interior Minister supposedly said Germany must "learn to live with terrorism". Such a phrase wouod not be acceptable in the UK, people would demand security

Reposted with a minor terminology change for Earnie:

Whilst it's undeniable that the West is the responsible for triggering the meltdown in the middle east it's facile to say every nation would respond to having it's leadership ousted with a Civil war. France narrowly avoided a civil war when the Allies liberated it. In contrast Germany and Japan had homogeneous populations who had broadly the same aims and had no need whatsoever to fight amongst each other for their way of doing things. The problem with (say) Iraq was that it was populated with three different tribes with totally different desires. If Iraq had been 100pc (say) Sunni there would have been a fairly peaceful transition to some kind of new government. If it had been 100pc Persian Shia it wold have simply become defacto part of Iran as a large chunk of Iraq effectively has.

I've only been to China once but I suspect China is more like (say) post war Germany and doesn't have a Civil war waiting in the Wings that will kick off if something happened to the current establishment.

what do I win?

Bugger all........you obviously haven't got a clue.

Here is the vote-winning solution :

[img] [/img]

Domestic terrorism sorted. Next problem ?

1, stop promoting inciting and supplying weapons and wars into the Middle East
2. create safe and legal forms of entry into Europe
3. set public policy around understanding and acceptance of immigration.

what do I win?

1) Zero chance of stopping the Russians and Iranians, they will step into the vacuum we would create and "their" side would win
2) They exist already, you can apply for a visa of you have a legitinate reason to travel
3) We have that, we voted for immigration to be cut to the low 10's thousands and to Leave the EU so we have full control of our borders

It may not be what you want but it's what our democracy voted for.

German Interior Minister supposedly said Germany must "learn to live with terrorism". Such a phrase wouod not be acceptable in the UK, people would demand security

Well yeah, but the UK doesn't need more people, Germany does. I suspect that if the price of gaining 1 million new Germans fast is a couple of these attacks they might consider it a price worth paying.

Domestic terrorism sorted.

Well the US clearly has far less of a problem with domestic terrorism than does Europe. I wonder why that is ?

Reposted with a minor terminology change for Earnie:

Thanks, perhaps you should have aimed it at Tom_W since he thought China was relevant to this thread.

How do you know I've got big ears btw ?

Domestic terrorism sorted.

Well the US clearly has far less of a problem with domestic terrorism than does Europe. I wonder why that is ?

Presumably it's got nothing to do with your man Donald Trump.

Well the US clearly has far less of a problem with domestic terrorism than does Europe. I wonder why that is ?

Is it because you just made that up?

I very much agree with above post about real risks. If you really want to live longer and happier then adopting a Mediterranean diet will do you more good than avoiding places not protected with concrete blocks. When people post their weight and eating/drinking habits on this forum it's clear what's most likely to debilitate/kill them and it's not a crazy in a truck or a bomb.

You live in one of the best policed parts of France, Jamba. Policing levels in Paris per 100 000 citizens are about five times levels outside the Périphérique. You also live in a very calm part of Paris. A long time ago (well 30 years) I had a girlfriend who lived in an HLM in Aulnay/bois, living there really meant sleeping there then taking the RER into Paris for everything else.

Well the US clearly has far less of a problem with domestic terrorism than does Europe. I wonder why that is ?

Really?
.
.
.
Really?

Really?

yeah, Jamby just said so, weren't you paying attention?

There's been no more 9/11s since they started vetting all Saudis, that says a lot.

Although Donald Trump is taking no chances and is going to send them all back. They're going, they're gone.

I very much agree with above post about real risks. If you really want to live longer and happier then adopting a Mediterranean diet will do you more good than avoiding places not protected with concrete blocks. When people post their weight and eating/drinking habits on this forum it's clear what's most likely to debilitate/kill them and it's not a crazy in a truck or a bomb.

Certainly true, but so what? If Germany want to put a bit of Police effort into investigating this crime and take a few steps to reduce similar crimes in the future then I don't think we can criticize it on the basis that they'd save more lives by offering dietary advice to fat people.

Well the US clearly has far less of a problem with domestic terrorism than does Europe. I wonder why that is ?

Really?
.
.
.
Really?

1, stop promoting inciting and supplying weapons and wars into the Middle East
2. create safe and legal forms of entry into Europe
3. set public policy around understanding and acceptance of immigration.

Hard to argue with number 1, although I'm far from convinced it would all be sunshine and roses without the West. Not sure of the relevance of 2 and 3 as far as fuel for radicalisation goes?

Responsible does not equal guilty. I think the Germans are more capable of managing Germany than some biased ego-tripping tit with an agenda on Sky.

Berlin attacker placed on US No Fly list months ago. Not rocket science.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/22/u-s-placed-berlin-terror-suspect-on-no-fly-list-months-ago-report-says.html

Berlin attacker placed on US No Fly list months ago. Not rocket science.

Wasn't Cat Stevens on that list?

I would say rocket science is a lot easier than working out who to detain contrary to human rights agreements or expel when they are not welcome from whence they came. The ballistics to put man on the moon amounted to a few pages of Fortran, many millions of pages of code have gone into security with no way of stopping me if ever I should take it into my head to do something awful. I won't (I'm the only one who can be sure of that) some will.

Thanks for the link jambalaya - I spent a very enjoyable and amusing 10 minutes reading the comments 🙂

This terrorist was from ****stan although he claimed he was Afghan. ****stan not Syria or Iraq

Berlin attacker placed on US No Fly list months ago. Not rocket science.

so, a couple of days ago, you posted some crap about the suspect who was released, and now you've decided that finding the next suspect should be in fact "not rocket science..."

you are a computer generated troll, and I claim my 5 euros and 72 virgins (or is it sultanas, I can never remember)

Berlin attacker placed on US No Fly list months ago. [b]Not rocket science.[/b]

It's not about finding him nick, its about not letting into the country someone who has been imprisoned for arson, then found to be active communicating with IS. The US reconise this and he is "no fly". As for the original suspect EU as part of it's deal with Turkey automatically now send back to Turkey all ****stani and Bangladeshi's who try and claim to be refugees on entering Greece.

ernie, you are braver than I

And just how were the Germans supposed to keep him out? If I want to travel to Spain for a very good reason it would take the whole French army to stop me, and I reckon I'd still have a good chance of getting through. I'd get to England too but posting how here might give the wrong people the right idea if ever they were to read it.

You hold up the US as a model yet the number of latin illegals grows daily.

You hold up the US as a model yet the number of latin illegals grows daily.

Yes but all that is about to change.

It's not rocket science ffs :

[img] [/img]

Well I say it's not rocket science but if a wall proves a tad too difficult to build a good sturdy fence will be just as good.

[url= http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-14/donald-trump-says-parts-of-border-wall-fence/8022188 ]Donald Trump: Parts of border wall could be fence instead, US President-elect says[/url]

So you see stopping Mexican rapists and criminals crossing the world's most frequently crossed international border, all 2,000 miles of it, should be a piece of piss.

Only atheists, gays, liberals, marxists, and terrorist-lovers, think differently. But that's 'cause they hate America.

Strange Ernie

As a self-avowed Marxist-Leninist I would have though that the proposal of the Germans build a wall to keep out immigrants and undesirable and damaging cultural influences would have been right down your street...

Mind you, sections of the last one were fences too, but I don't remember anyone complaining about the name 😉

Ah, keyboard warriors are go ....
However shit the local intelligence service are, I am guess they have more info that posters here ...

Strange Ernie

There's nowt so queer as folk.

Thanks, perhaps you should have aimed it at Tom_W since he thought China was relevant to this thread

They too are experiencing a small problem from Muslim extremists so maybe very relevant, always good to see how other deal with a problem, you can possibly learn from others mistakes?

Yes it might be useful to see how China deals with extremism :

[img] [/img]

.

And this is how they deal with Buddhists who displease them :

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/18/china-falun-gong-crackdown ]China's Falun Gong crackdown: 'The persecution is almost underground' [/url]

Berlin attacker placed on US No Fly list months ago. Not rocket science.

A member of this parish was on the list for many years, is he a terrorist?

A colleague of mine was on the US no fly list. One of the fun things is, they won't tell you why, you find out by turning up at the airport with your family and being told you're not allowed on the plane- but eventually with a load of pressure from the british council and some help from the home office, it turned out he has a kind of similiar name to a "person of interest", and he's syrian, and he sometimes travels to the middle east. And that's enough. Now he has a letter from the gubmint that he has to take with him every time he flies.

It's not radicalised him as far as I know 😆 But that's the no fly list.

I was on some sort of security list because I used to do trips to US that involved lots of short one way trips between cities that were booked by someone else at the last minute. Real PITA as we were sometimes catching 3-4 planes a day and each time, we would have 2-3 extra security searches. Odd for a white causasian Brit!!

teamhurtmore - Member

Odd for a white causasian Brit!!

It's odd for an arabic Brit too I assure you. And for anyone else of any colour and nationality that ends up on a Sekrit List and gets treated like a criminal for no meaningful reason.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/nsw-greens-mp-mehreen-faruqi-fingerprinted-and-questioned-at-lax/7091360

New South Wales Greens MP Mehreen Faruqi has criticised security procedures at Los Angeles International Airport after she was "interrogated" about her ****stani history.

Dr Faruqi is touring the United States as part of a self-funded fact-finding trip on drug law reform and also to visit family.

At immigration control, Dr Faruqi said she and her husband were asked "how we actually got our Australian passport" before being interviewed in separate rooms.

world would be a lot safer if they just used simple racial profiling 🙁

At immigration control, Dr Faruqi said she and her husband were asked "how we actually got our Australian passport"

It's a fair question - a terrorist would probably give the wrong answer.

Drac only a portion of the no-fly list is terrorist related as you well know. You can (will) be denied entry to the US if you have been in prison. They denied Nigela Lawson entry for having publically admitted she had taken cocaine. Their country they make the rules. I always got lots of questions as I had so many Middle East visas/stamps.

The bottom line is stricter security is inconvenient but that's better than the alternative. If they have overdone it, then so be it. It's absolutely within the US's right to police their own borders as they see fit.

Of course I know it's you who appeared to didn't. Best of all hasn't even got a beard.

Drac only a portion of the no-fly list is terrorist related as you well know

Um...yeah, we know, it's not rocket science...

Indeed it is not. You aim to keep out all the bad guys and gals. That probably means you keep out some good people too but so be it.

Drac he has posted here he was banned for an earlier indiscretion.

The bottom line is stricter security is inconvenient but that's better than the alternative. If they have overdone it, then so be it. It's absolutely within the US's right to police their own borders as they see fit.

Yes it might be useful to see how China deals with extremism

Well, they don't have a Falun Gong problem anymore!

(said in the spirit of the guy hanging upside down praising the Romans in Life of Brian).

Drac he has posted here he was banned for an earlier indiscretion.

It's a very interesting story of why he was but certainly not because he's a terrorist or likely to be.

So are we saying being on a US No Fly list isn't a good reason to get picked up by the cops?

I've no idea I'm not a rocket scientist.

You're not paying attention.......it's NOT rocket science.

Seems he's been shot. Can I be the first to say thats a shame, would have been better to put him on trial...

Seems he's been shot. Can I be the first to say thats a shame, would have been better to put him on trial...

Very good point!

I get questioned, have my photo and fingerprints taken EVERY time I go to the States.

Get 'the chat' after I've checked in.
Varies from just being asked to sign a piece of blank paper at the desk (whilst being checked via CCTV,I assume) to a 20 minute Q&A about who I'm with, plans etc.

I have a couple of ideas as to why, but probably just the same name as someone else.

It's irrelevant whether he was the [i]right one[/i], he was shot and killed for shooting at a police office, not for being a wanted suspect.

.

It's a very interesting story of why he was but certainly not because he's a terrorist or likely to be.

No I get that. The US keeps people out for a wide variety of reasons. Always has.

.

Seems he's been shot. Can I be the first to say thats a [s]shame[/s], would have been better to put him on trial...

aa I think the correct term* is its a tragedy

( *amongst Islington Lefties / Bleeding Heart Liberals )

Finger prints of person shot match suspect

Seems he travelled from Germany to France to Turn to Milan all by train. Incredibly lucky he didn't shoot more people

(All on bbc website)

It's irrelevant whether he was the right one, he was shot and killed for shooting at a police office, not for being a wanted suspect.

This.

Can I be the first to say thats a shame, would have been better to put him on trial...

Agree.

He's (by his thinking) a martyr. The public are saved the cost of a trial with the publicity it would give him. Win win in my book.

He's (by his thinking) a martyr.

Seems to me this guy and many of his ilk aren't especially religious, they're just trouble maker low-lifes who don't value their own lives and want to go out with a bang seemingly for a cause.

I suspect this **** would have done a school killing in the states or murdered Jo Cox if his back story had been different.

Indeed it is not. You aim to keep out all the bad guys and gals. That probably means you keep out some good people too but so be it.

My irony meter is picking something up here.

I don't think the operator of the Jamba-bot does irony, I think there are just "facts that are Jamba".. and real life facts that are inconvenient to the narrative, and thus ignored.

jambalaya - Member

aa I think the correct term* is its a tragedy

( *amongst Islington Lefties / Bleeding Heart Liberals )

Let me correct that jambafact.

The correct term among Islington Lefties and Bleeding Heart Liberals [i]"this is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy"[/i]

Here is another quote for you :

[i]"British soldiers are not taught to murder unarmed people in the act of surrendering.

Bin Laden should be put on trial; not in Britain, but in the place where he organised the biggest and most terrible of his massacres, New York.

He should be put on trial, because a trial would be the profoundest and most eloquent statement of the difference between our values and his. He wanted to kill as many innocent people as he could".[/i]

This is what that darling of the Tory Party, Boris Johnson, had to say concerning whether Osama Bin Laden should be shot on sight or put on trial - basically exactly the same point as Jeremy Corbyn made several years later.