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Muslim isn't a race, that's not just my opinion, it's what the law saysYou can wish to redefine it to fit in with your high minded, self important, oh so conscious ideals all you like, but the law says it isn't
Diddums
That'll be the Crime and Disorder Act (1998) (as amended), won't it?
Diddums? 😆
You know a person is out of rational argument when they try and insult.
Not clever and not cool.
Diddums is a standard ninfan retort. If you insist on "debating" a political point with ninfan then expect puerile point scoring, childish taunting, petty insults, and very little else.
Good luck.
You people make me sick.More French and Belgian citizens are responsible for European terrorism than any other group, you don't see anyone suggesting we ban them.
Well I have certainly suggested, in fact demanded, we have full control over our borders are are not obliged by law to treat all EU citizens as having identical rights to UK citizens. The connection here is not about country of origin. There is another link, namely a radical interpretation of Islam.
Merkel invited Syrian Refugees, she got a minority of those but a whole lot of people from other nations having no significant threats to civilians. What Germany got was economic migrants and some individuals intent of committing acts of terrorism who where able to enter Germany illegally with minimal checks. This attack was simply the latest and it won't be the last.
There is no argument for ninfan to win, the result is clear to anyone willing to see. It is with absolute certainty this was an attack carried out in the name of radical Islam. The US and French have been warning about attacks of Christmas markets as that's what IS is very publically calling for. There where numerous car rammings last year in France at markets and another in Austria at the time of the F1 Grand Prix.
What really really depresses me is the German Authorities have now placed concrete blocks over the site entrance. WTF !! No ***** use now are they ?
The US and French have been warning about attacks of Christmas markets
Always hilarious when the US warns of the dangers of terrorism...
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Jihadists have been known to leave or carry their id so when they are martyred everyone knows exactly who was responsible.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38392128
Looks like you're most likely right.
Jambalaya , the sad thing is that you , Ninfan and Farage used the death of innocent people to reinforce your right wing ideas .
We all know this was an attack related to radical islam .
But building walls doesnt work , so what else ?
Maybe the day we stop bombing the sht out of those countries , we wont have so many problems .
We have control of our borders and the radical islamists aren't EU citizens. So other than that, yes, very good points well made.
I suppose the Germans should have sent the refugees back to Aleppo pending consideration of their visa applications, totting up of points etc. FFS man - it's an emergency!!
individuals intent of committing acts of terrorism who where able to enter Germany illegally with minimal checks.
And you are not going to stop that by closing borders and losing people, that has been demonstrated time after time, that benefit us.
You are scared of Muslims and think closing the door is the answer. If a terrorist wants to travel to the UK with stringent border controls, they will do it. The IRA did, Libyans did, Iranians did. It's the terrorists that you need to fear and even then grow some balls and don't let the terrorists win.
From the Telegrapgh. Really not looking good for German Government or security services.
German police hunt Tunisian man after finding identity documentSuspect was investigated over earlier plot, had links to extremist preacher
Berlin terror attack leaves Angela Merkel isolated
Everything we know about suspect Anis Amri
How the German police and security service blundered over the Berlin terror outrage?
A Tunisian man known wanted in connection with the deadly truck attack on a crowd at a Berlin Christmas market had been previously investigated over an earlier terror plot, a senior German official has said.
Ralf Jäger, the interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia state, said an investigation had been launched against as Anis Amri, who was due to be deported, earlier this year on suspicion of "preparing a serious crime endangering national safety".
He moved around Germany and lived in several places, Mr Jäger said. Since February this year he lived mostly in Berlin, but he had been back in North Rhine-Westphalia recently.
The man is aged 21 or 23 and known by three different names, according to reports in the daily Allgemeine Zeitung and the Bild newspaper.
Both said asylum office papers believed to belong to the man were found in the cab of the truck.
The documents, which announced a stay of deportation, were found under the driver's seat of the 40-tonne lorry that barrelled through the Christmas market in the heart of the German capital.
No future as an MP and the right job came up.
I can't help but think he should have stuck it out. MP is a 5 year commitment, don't think it's right to jack it in when circumstances change.
^^^ Corbyn thread 😉
Always hilarious when the US warns of the dangers of terrorism...
Bob try that hilarity in New York. Your chart excluded 9/11 and Homeland Security would say the subsequently low level is a result of the job they do including border control. Half the gun deaths are suicides and most of the rest is gang violence.
When we all know it's really because the terrorists commit suicide or are murdered by gangs before they get to carry out their attacks.Homeland Security would say the subsequently low level is a result of the job they do including border control.
outofbreathI can't help but wonder if the perp might have left someone else's identity card behind to throw the feds off the scent....
Well if he did he also left their DNA.
There were signs of a struggle in the truck's cab and traces of the suspect's DNA were found, regional state broadcaster RBB reported]
When you say gang violence....
Is there not a good chance that your 'data' for those 'stats' was compiled by people who might not understand how to differentiate between gang members and people in reduced circumstances?
Or perhaps even a vested interest in failing to make the distinction?
Is there a possibility that you've reached your conclusion through ideas you picked up from 90s Hollywood narrative?
Well if he did he also left their DNA
That's interesting do they take a DNA sample of all refugees on arrival?
They've had enough time to test for it and compare to a database
That's interesting do they take a DNA sample of all refugees on arrival?
No idea. I'd imagine the suspect was DNA'd during his previous arrests.
In July this year he got into a knife fight over drugs and was charged with GBH. But he went underground before getting to court.
EDIT If they don't DNA all asylum seekers then they should IMO.
That's interesting do they take a DNA sample of all refugees on arrival?
Not as far as I know. I doubt that would be legal under Human Rights Legislation anyway. I do believe they are finger printed (as you are when entering the US)
EDIT If they don't DNA all asylum seekers then they should IMO.
And the rest of the population, I'll throw in ID cards into the mix too. It's a well known fact that countries that collect DNA from all citizens and use ID cards have zero crime rates.
I'll go first as I've nothing to hide.
It's a well known fact that countries that collect DNA from all citizens and use ID cards have zero crime rates.
Maybe they have lower crime rates than they would otherwise have and ID makes police work easier.
Maybe they have lower crime rates than they would otherwise have and ID makes police work easier.
Or maybe there's no difference. I actually agree with ID cards as it can help in so many ways and we do have, in all but name, ID cards here anyway. 🙄
I'd be happy for you to pull up stats that support your statement.
Classic and tragic aslyum seekers issue. The Tunisians did not want him back and denied he was Tunisian. Germans tried to deport him and could not despite his history including GBH with a knife.
It's not hard to imagine Tunisia assuming all asylum seekers who have been in Syria are likely to have been there fighting in the civil war (I recall there are 10,000 Tunisians fighting with IS). We have already seen Morocco reject close to 5000 deportations from Germany.
Does anyone know how much the war against ID card fraud will cost?
No but we can just ask the French. No more than the war against passport fraud, we could just use passports.
Classic and tragic aslyum seekers issue. The Tunisians did not want him back and denied he was Tunisian. Germans tried to deport him and could not despite his history including GBH with a knife.
How is it classic?
My ID card is two years out of date but still valid (and will be for another three years). I find it useful but as an anti-crime measure it's useless. Contrary to popular British opinion I'm not obliged to have one and carrying it isn't obligatory either.
My ID card is two years out of date but still valid (and will be for another three years). I find it useful but as an anti-crime measure it's useless. Contrary to popular British opinion I'm not obliged to have one and carrying it isn't obligatory either.
Does it make life easier when dealing with the telephone company, for example? I get sick of giving personal details every time I want a new contract for something, or everytime I call them up.
Background checks for asylum seekers or indeed border checks between EU countries ?
Tunisia's Mosaique FM radio reports that the man being sought had previous convictions in Italy and his home country.Mosaique FM quoted Anis Amri's father saying that his son left Tunisia about seven years ago and spent four years in a prison in Italy after being accused over a fire at a school.
He then moved to Germany more than a year ago. The father did not provide details and said he had no contact with his son, although his brothers did.
Mosaique FM quoted Tunisian security officials as saying that Amri was also convicted in absentia for aggravated theft with violence and sentenced to five years in prison.
@Edukator If you don't have it with you, you are obliged to report to the Police station with it within 5 days. I like the Carte Vitale idea, no card you pay.
How is it classic?
Because it's happened thousands and thousands of times before. Deporting failed asylum seekers is in practice very difficult.
background checks, and better still, border checks between Yorkshire and London too.
I'm all for it.
Proper border too. Every passenger to walk through a full body scanner either at KX St. Pancras or Euston, or @ South Mimms border control if travelling by car.
Maybe 7/7 might not have happened.
🙄
Nothing makes dealing with phone companies easier, anywhere, Captain. For most formalities I just hand over the card with the words "l'adresse est toujours bonne" and they note what they need.
I've had two "contrôles d'identité" as a pedestrian in thirty years, a few in a car and none on a bike, so you know how to travel if you are a criminal.
No ID checks even for the festive season firework display but there were barricades, a bag ban, police checks (but no ID asked for) and more importantly municipal trucks blocking the road in.
Because it's happened thousands and thousands of times before. Deporting failed asylum seekers is in practice very difficult.
Citation obviously needed from the neutral press, non of these right wing blogs, if you don't mind.
😆
No Jamba. [url= https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11601 ]You don't even need an ID card.[/url] Either they take you in or let you go.
Well never mind the Government website, if Mrs B carries her ID and passport everywhere and says it's necessary who am I to argue ? (I understand the concept of higher authority, national govt vs ecj/wife) Also what does this really mean in practice ? "plus longue"
[i]Par ailleurs, si vous êtes soumis à un contrôle d'identité par la police ou la gendarmerie, la procédure sera plus longue si vous ne pouvez pas présenter de pièce d'identité.[/i]
@Captain 'twas on the BBC I think - do you really expect me to google it 😉 ? The Germans have been paying Afghans to go back, few hundred euros a head plus a free flight. Some Syrians have been leaving Sweden voluntarily as its not as comfortable as they'd hoped.
No ID checks even for the festive season firework display but there were barricades, a bag ban, police checks (but no ID asked for) and more importantly municipal trucks blocking the road in.
Ditto here in Levallois. I'd like to hear the German authorities explanation for no security.
y a pire. 😉 You didn't bump into the Balkany couple did you?Levallois
NSW down here just passed a stupid must carry ID on the bike law, eventually had to get rid of it as pointless and unenforceable.
ID Cards may be part of a much bigger method of crime prevention but how would it have stopped this attack?
Imagine if the US/UK/NATO declared war on domestic violence.
Merkel said this a week ago
But she has warned, too, of the [b]danger of blowing out of proportion the security threat posed by asylum seekers[/b], or of making sweeping statements – not backed up by facts – about criminal foreigners.
Good point, perhaps your should take a read of the article below. You are more at risk of heart disease than terrorism, driving poses a higher risk, walking around in the US poses a risk. Terrorism is always highlighted and the result blown up.
And she could definitely repeat it today. Even more appropriate now.Merkel said this a week ago
There are 60 Christmas markets in Berlin. The notion that you can somehow protect all these public spaces from a nutcase in a runaway articulated lorry is, quite frankly, absurd.
More likely to be killed by need than by terrorists in most places..
(Edit: that was meant to say more likely to be killed by bees, but I'll leave it)
You didn't bump into the Balkany couple did you?
Well if you had an email address I'd send you a photo from March 2015 as he was kind enough at special request to conduct our wedding aided by my BIL who is an elected (and ceremony authorised) official elsewhere 🙂
Guys please. The "you are at more risk" argument is "winning no where" as Trump might say. How many politicians do you hear saying, don't worry you are more likely to die in a car crash. Answer NONE.
Merkel has F***ed German security in a massive way
It's what politicians are saying, and the legion of ****s that are buying their rhetoric that's the real terrorist threat jambalaya..
And you KNOW it..
So what exactly IS your agenda?
The notion that you can somehow protect all these public spaces from a nutcase in a runaway articulated lorry is, quite frankly, absurd
You can try, bollards and barriers built into the design of the area would help. To simply accept huge risk to public safety without trying to minimise it would itself be absurd.
I'd much rather live in a world run by people like Merkel than people like Trump. A world of compassion rather than fear and hate. YMMV.
Asylum seekers aren't a security threat, terrorists are.
^^^ totally agree @fin. The trick is to vet them first. The vast majority in Germany faced no immediate security threat and the majority came from safe countries (as designated by Germany and other nations)
So what exactly IS your agenda?
Not being dead
You can certainly try, but if you are near a road, you are near a road.You can try, bollards and barriers built into the design of the area would help. To simply accept huge risk to public safety without trying to minimise it would itself be absurd.
And, as others have alluded to, the risk isn't that huge.
mikewsmith - MemberYou are more at risk of heart disease than terrorism, driving poses a higher risk,
So we needn't try to prevent terrorism or be concerned about it until it's killing 1800 people a year in the UK (driving) or (guessing) a few 10s of thousands (heart attacks?
EDIT If they don't DNA all asylum seekers then they should IMO.And the rest of the population, I'll throw in ID cards into the mix too. It's a well known fact that countries that collect DNA from all citizens and use ID cards have zero crime rates.
It's a well known fact that some asylum seekers are terrorists. Requiring all asylum seekers to give DNA is no different than fingerprinting them when they haven't committed a crime. DNA evidence helps convict criminals.
.
So what exactly IS your agenda?
a police state
where every citizen is in fear of their own authorities and their own neighbours
Merkel got to go. End of.
The longer she stays the more mess they get.
Guys please. The "you are at more risk" argument is "winning no where" as Trump might say. How many politicians do you hear saying, don't worry you are more likely to die in a car crash. Answer NONE.
Yawn, we know you are bored of facts and experts and all that.
Merkel has F***ed German security in a massive way
You and many others are using this as an excuse to put up fences, retreat and turn away missions in need mostly from the consequences of our actions.
The trick is to vet them first.
Care to explain how that works in practice, you going to mine the med? Keep them all on greek beaches until they have filled out their forms? Want to get to Europe to cause trouble they will do.
So what exactly IS your agenda?
Not being dead
Well the best thing you can probably do is stop reading the internet it will only elevate your blood pressure, avoid roads, places where people are, mountains and hundreds of other things.
The society you want to live in with mass survelance, boder towers, ID cards (which really need lots of stoppting to be checked) presumption of guilt and many other things does not seem like a price I'm willing to pay for a tiny reduction in the chance I will die in one way.
Again perspective
Figures from 2013UNODC figures show that 18 women are victims of homicide each day in Europe on average, and 12 of
these are murdered by intimate partners or other family members.2
Globally, WHO estimates that as
many as 38 percent of murders of women are committed by an intimate partner.
http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2014/violence-against-women-eu-wide-survey-main-results-report
If that trend has continued then in the 2 days this thread has been running 24 women will have been murdered by their partner or family member in Europe, that is happening every day in every country.
In 12 months there have been 142 deaths due to terrorism in Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe
The domestic violence stats will be around 4,380.
irc - Member
So we needn't try to prevent terrorism or be concerned about it until it's killing 1800 people a year in the UK (driving) or (guessing) a few 10s of thousands (heart attacks?
No but the response should be measured and proportional.
It's a well known fact that some asylum seekers are terrorists
Yes, but how many out of the 10s of millions of refugees and asylum seekers around the world?
10?
20?
maybe a couple of hundred?
I'll wager there's a higher proportion of Belgians that are terrorists.
where every citizen is in fear of their own authorities and their own neighbours
If I was in Germany I'd be afraid of the Government. Now after the attack they have concrete blocks protecting the closed market.
In Paris we have the army on the streets every day (we don't even live in the main part of the city, we are in a town outside), we have seriously armed police outside every Jewish School and Synagogue, we have concrete blocks and council trucks blocking the roads at the Christmas Market, we have a state of emergency and suspension of Shengen (for more 18 months now btw) ...
I'll wager there's a higher proportion of Belgians that are terrorists.
Belgium has the highest percentage of IS recruits of any European Country vs population but far less in numerical terms than France, Germany and most certainly less than Tunisia which is the number 1 nation outside Syria and Iraq.
I have no issue with asylum seekers if they are vetted in advance of entry. This is exactly the UK's stance. Smart.
strange. was borderless when I crossed from Germany to France the other day. maybe the Schengen suspension is only part time or something.
PS see way more Polizei here in Germany on a day to day basis than I do police in UK.
But UK, at least, is on the path towards replicating NK and former East Germany.
I have no issue with asylum seekers if they are vetted in advance of entry. This is exactly the UK's stance. Smart.
And given a large number of the terrorists from the Paris and Brissels attacks were French and Belgiun citizens what next? Your massive vetting programme (still no ideas on how you would of implemented that) wouldn't have stopped those attacks.
The reason that there are people across Europe is that the couldn't all stay in Greece, they were overwhelmed. What is done is done time to move along and keep things in perspective you may be marginally/fractionally/mincrospically less safe than you were 2 years ago but don't let that ruin your life. Get one with it, as they say you could be dead tomorrow (from millions of reasons)
I have no issue with asylum seekers if they are vetted in advance of entry. This is exactly the UK's stance. Smart.
The UK's approach to refugees and asylum seekers is far more about deliberate delay tactics, mindless bureaucracy and deterrent than it is about security.
I have helped a couple of guys whose asylum applications are a cycle of written deportation threats, appointments with home office staff who constantly delay decisions, being moved around, a lot, and a life with no security, no certainty, no money, no job and no worth at the mercy of a bureaucratic system which shows them nothing but contempt. One of the guys now has pretty serious mental health problems (a mixture of past trauma and current anxieties), he'd be pretty easy pickings for anyone looking to "radicalise" him.
Now, if his life was one lived in security, with a certainty about his future and the ability to work and set up a home, maybe he would not be so vulnerable.
Treat enough people like shit for long enough and some of them will resent you for it. Some of them might even end up doing something really nasty.
Show them respect, treat them with dignity, welcome them as you would hope to be welcomed and yes, you'll still get the odd whack job, but you'll have a whole lot more people on your side.
Show them respect, treat them with dignity, welcome them as you would hope to be welcomed and yes, you'll still get the odd whack job, but you'll have a whole lot more people on your side
The odd whack job, well then if its only the odd one I think we would all be cool with that.
I suspect not taking a chance and actually making efforts to have an efficient and fair vetting procedure would properly be a better options, plus an effective way to remove those not deemed to be refugees would make get even more people on your side.
There are a couple of issues here, one is the perception on the number of actual immigrants/refugees entering Europe and also that that those who are not real refugees are somehow circumventing the law and staying and not being deported.
I suspect the 2nd issue is something that needs to be remedied for the first to be removed as a concern.
Sadly politics needs this problem not to be solved as the left and right feed of it.
So we needn't try to prevent terrorism or be concerned about it until it's killing 1800 people a year in the UK (driving) or (guessing) a few 10s of thousands (heart attacks?
I think everyone is concerned about terrorism and we are already working to prevent it. The point being made is that the chance of being killed or injured in a terrorist attack in the West is very, very low.
None of us take a totally objective view of risks, so it's important to take a step back and ask yourself where the real dangers lie. On R4 last night, an expert on risk pointed out that it is estimated that there were 1500 more deaths on the roads in the USA after 9/11, because more people chose to drive instead of flying.
The Christmas Market attack is a horrible tragedy for the people killed and their families, but still a very unusual incident. Everyone knows the statistics about road deaths already, and there is a long list of other everyday events that are much more likely to kill you.
We have to fight terrorism (in all sorts of ways) but we have to keep the risk of terrorism in perspective.
The "you are at more risk" argument is "winning no where" as Trump might say.
Aah well, if Trump says it, it must be true. Case closed.
I have no issue with asylum seekers if they are vetted in advance of entry. This is exactly the UK's stance. Smart.
Why wouldn't that work? Based on 1998 we should have a vetting process going into France and have to prove that we're not football hooligans, or have speeding tickets (cars are dangerous), or whatever.
Fin, blame the victims eh? That's the kind of attitude that fuels terrorism in the first place. Plenty of migrants throughout history and the world have been treated like shit by their host countries, I"ve yet to hear of any Filipino's truck bombing Singaporean shopping malls in protest of OFW conditions.
That's because they don't have a societal victim complex that thinks that 9/11 was a hoax and that crusaders are out to get them combined with feelings of "make [s]murica[/s] the caliphate great again"
Fin, blame the victims eh? That's the kind of attitude that fuels terrorism in the first place.
Really? The treatment of some people leaves them more vulnerable to radicalisation, if you beat somebody down enough then they may be tempted by some very clever grooming techniques. People are praying on these things it may be newer and more evident at the moment but it's a change in what we are seeing. It's not victim blaming it's accepting that current policies may not be the best
That's because they don't have a societal victim complex that thinks that 9/11 was a hoax and that crusaders are out to get them combined with feelings of "make murica the caliphate great again"
I don't think you can dump every person who "acts like a terrorist/does things that the media describe as terrorism" in a convenient box marked "radical Islamist" There are many many reasons why these young people might find themselves doing this stuff, and quite a few of the acts on continental Europe have a much more complex background to them than at first glance reveals. The Nice Truck Driver; petty criminal, drinker, violent, perhaps mentally unstable, had lived in France for 10 years and only started to go to mosque in April, this was not an active and determined member of an Islamic terrorist organisation like the 9/11 bombers.
The Nice Truck Driver; petty criminal, drinker, violent, perhaps mentally unstable, had lived in France for 10 years and only started to go to mosque in April
Hang on - are you saying he wasn't one of the people on Farage's poster? Confused!!
Personally, I think what you are saying Mike coulld offend all sorts of various groups who have been treated just as badly - if not worse and not resorted to strapping on a bomb vest.
The act of a man who has been living in France for 10 years was not the act of a man who felt a bit poor and downtrodden, it was the act of a chauvinistic prideful nationalistic male who feels historically slighted by the fact that the Muslim world has fallen behind the west, a culture that he vuews as inferior and undeserving of its wealth.
What you're trying to say Tom_W is that Muslims have a chip on their shoulders, or a "societal victim complex" as you call it, which explains why only 99.99% of Muslims in Europe aren't terrorists.
Well it might not make a lot of sense to a rational person who thinks beyond knee-jerk reactions but it certainly maintains your long standing Islamophobic narrative.
What's your explantation btw for the German NSU terrorists who went around in recent years murdering Muslims ?
That Germans suffer "societal victim complex", or doesn't that fit in so neatly with your Islamophobic agenda ?
I see what you're saying, Tom. I'm not victim blaming, far from it. I work with very vulnerable children, some of whom are refugees. If you put me in their position I think I'd be pretty angry and desperate. I also help out with a few adult refugees and asylum seekers. Watching people's mental health deteriorate day after day living in a Kafkaesque semi-nightmare, it's not difficult for me to see how that despair can turn to hate. That's why I help, so that we all get to see the human in each other.
If we don't see the humanity in people we are lost. A lot of those people going to fight for Daesh are victims in one way or another. This is no good verses evil story, I wish it was that simple.
it was the act of a chauvinistic prideful nationalistic male who feels historically slighted by the fact that the Muslim world has fallen behind the west, a culture that he vuews as inferior and undeserving of its wealth.
and had an obvious and well signposted route to infamy thanks to a media and public discourse obsessed with terrorism.
Tom_W1987 - Memberit was the act of a chauvinistic prideful nationalistic male who feels historically slighted by the fact that the Muslim world has fallen behind the west, a culture that he vuews as inferior and undeserving of its wealth.
I blame the Germans losing two world wars for this :
[url= http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/xenophobia-still-prevalent-in-germany-20-years-after-neo-nazi-attacks-a-851972.html ]Racism and Xenophobia Still Prevalent in Germany[/url]
[i] Hundreds of right-wing extremists and local thugs spent four days in late August of 1992 throwing rocks and firebombs at a building used to house asylum-seekers, most of them Sinti and Roma, in the outlying Lichtenhagen district. Thousands of others stood by and cheered on the attackers, shouting "foreigners out!"[/i]
Merkel comes out of this with far more credit than Seehofer
What's your explantation btw for the German NSU terrorists who went around in recent years murdering Muslims ?
The exact same reasons that I stated for the truck attackers.
Whenever there is a narrative of being victimized, this is what happens.
Do you see South East Asians and Chinese people shooting up schools in the USA or Britain? Despite historical racism and colonialism. Rarely, because they have an attitude that places a lot of emphasis on their own personal agency. It's whites there, who blame everyone but themselves that like to go on mass killing sprees.
The full question involved a second part :
What's your explantation btw for the German NSU terrorists who went around in recent years murdering Muslims ?That Germans suffer "societal victim complex", or doesn't that fit in so neatly with your Islamophobic agenda ?
So do Germans suffer "societal victim complex" ?
Or when it comes to German terrorists to you just see them as individuals, unlike how you see Muslim terrorists ?
Germany does have a far right victim complex and has done historicalky, I've met a lot of Germans who still like to blame WW2 on us being a bit mean to them during Versailles.
The middle east in general though, is utterly dripping with victim memes. It's driven the internal conflict and their conflict with the west and countries on the borders of the Islamic world. What they need to do is look to other post colonial countties like China and India, for some hard lessons.
Germany does have a far right victim complex and has done historicalky
Yeah, I've read a bit of Nicholas O Shaughnessy & Ian Kershaw recently and there's no doubt that's true.
The middle east in general though, is utterly dripping with victim memes. It's driven the internal conflict and their conflict with the west and countries on the borders of the Islamic world. What they need to do is look to other post colonial countties like China and India, for some hard lessons.
I was going to ask you if by the Middle East [i]"utterly dripping with victim memes"[/i] you meant the Zionists, or what you thought of the likely consequences of a co-ordinated Western military attack on China to force regime change, but I don't think I bother. This is obviously going to go nowhere - you'll still be an Islamophobic bigot long after this thread is dead.