[Closed] Geraint Thomas NHS fundraiser on Zwift

£100s upon £100s of millions worth ? You think that would have made a dent in what the NHS needs ?

Literally 1000 £million. I think it would be better spent there, yes.

but I would happily scrap Trident and divert that expenditure to the NHS for a start. Or HS2 for that matter.

So because you don't want them that means they're invalid ? Hmmm not sure that's how things work in the world.

It got to this because there's so many people who say "fix the NHS, do this for the NHS" but without any idea how it would actually be done in the real world.

We're talking MASSIVE amounts of money here, not a pittance.

The money should come from taxation. You, and me, and all those on the minimum wage. Which I'm fine with - I'll contribute my share to get public services I want to see.

And as long as millionaire celebs and businesses can export their money offshore, it means our taxes will go up more than they might otherwise need to.

The money should come from taxation. You, and me, and all those on the minimum wage. Which I’m fine with – I’ll contribute my share to get public services I want to see.

SO tehy'll increase tax and the UK public are OK with that ? 1% ? 2% ? 5% ?

I'm not seeing that being accepted.

And as long as millionaire celebs and businesses can export their money offshore, it means our taxes will go up more than they might otherwise need to.

Agree. But if those millionaires don’t live here, and don’t make their money here, I struggle to see why they should pay tax here. Different story for people who DO live and make money here, but as mentioned above, it’s the game, not the players, that should be criticised.

So because you don’t want them that means they’re invalid ? Hmmm not sure that’s how things work in the world.

Well, I'm not entirely convinced that we need an independent nuclear deterrent or a massively expensive high speed rail system, but that's how discussion about budgeting works. My argument would be that we need a well-funded NHS rather more than the ability to wipe humanity off the face of the earth - or at least bits of Russia - at the press of a button.

I'm not even saying I'm 100% correct, but you asked where money could come from and I gave you a couple of suggestions. Your reply is that my argument might not be valid, which is fair enough, that's how discussion works, but just saying 'you might be wrong' isn't that persuasive.

I'd argue that if you want to take the whole idea that running a nation state is like running a household, having nuclear weapons is a bit like insisting you need a Ferrari as well as your normal household car. Which is fine if you can afford it, but if it means you're struggling to, say, pay the electricity bill, isn't necessarily the best use of your finances.

Why do we need nuclear weapons?

Sorry, this is just a dead end. What we really need to do, like some of the nordic states, is shift the way we think about taxation levels and wealth distribution.

Why do we need nuclear weapons?

I guess the simplest answer is "because other lunatics have them"

Although in your defence i'm not convinced in a civilised society we need them either... but there are some really special people leading governments in various parts of the world... So i can kinda see why we do.

Don't get me wrong here, i think the NHS really needs to be funded better and really deserves to be... even before this pandemic ever appeared.... But it's not really that simple is it.... As you've compared it to running a household, that's exactly the phrase we'll use, it really is like that, it's a finite budget of funds and putting it into pot 3 means it has to come out of 4, or 6, or 12...

I don't know the answers, i am not saying for a second i do... but i'm not convinced there's ANYONE on here who has a grasp of the decisions that governments have to make day in day out.. Do i think the government is great/right/correct, no, not really.... But that doesn't mean some random bloke in the street could do better as so many seem to think.

But that doesn’t mean some random bloke in the street could do better as so many seem to think.

I don't think anyone's suggested handing over the control of state expenditure to a 'random bloke in the street' - it would make good television though 🙂

The rest of it is about living in a democracy. If you don't believe we have a right to scrutinise government spending and policies, then you might as well live in China or Putin's Russia.

Regardless of all that, you wouldn't catch me spending 36 hours on Zwift 🙂

He’s a really good athlete and I’m sure he’s doing this with the best intentions, but the idea of reframing the NHS as a charity has the potential to do more harm than good.

There is some truth in this, but it is absolutely not the fault of anyone raising money or making charitable donations. This is the symptom of an overall problem elsewhere.

And it's not tax-avoidance either.

We know the NHS have received some of the largest funding cuts in its entire history during the past decade. And yet the government have stood there and told bare faced lies about it, proclaiming they are better funded than ever, and large parts of the media have backed them up.

Even people here are asking where the money should come from, like it just doesn't exist. Yet it did exist prior to the current government. Perhaps it was never perfect, and it never will be, but it was much better funded under the Labour government. The figures tell us this, and the doctors and nurses at the NHS are all telling us this. In fact it was better funded by every government prior to the current one.

But through all the corruption and disinformation we have in the age of information, we actually have little understanding collectively as a nation of WTAF is going on. And that vulnerability is being used against us. And as such, a lot of people still think the government are doing a fantastic job.

Don't blame a guy riding a bike for charity, raising almost half a million for a good cause.

I actually thought what Geraint did was a really nice touch, highlighting the efforts nurses put in on a daily basis.

WHere did you want the money that you put in the NHS have been taken from ?

Defence ? Terrorist attacks ? Floods ? Roads ? Police ? Litter ? Parks ? Regeneration ?

People paying taxes I reckon given the theme of the thread.

Going into tax exile and paying into an ISA are in no way similar.

Different ends of the same spectrum.

They really are not, one is a government supported scheme to encourage savings in relatively small amounts, the other isnt. If you can tell which is which ypu can understand the massive difference. I've never seen a government scheme for the other one.

Agree. But if those millionaires don’t live here, and don’t make their money here, I struggle to see why they should pay tax here. Different story for people who DO live and make money here, but as mentioned above, it’s the game, not the players, that should be criticised.

Remind me again, where is he, right now? At home, right?

Haven’t a clue. I do know that living somewhere doesn’t mean you have to be there all the time though.

SO tehy’ll increase tax and the UK public are OK with that ? 1% ? 2% ? 5% ?

I’m not seeing that being accepted.

I got murdered for this on another thread, but I'll try again..... banging pots and pans once a week, or putting £10 into Geraint's fund (or indeed Captain Tom's*) is a lovely gesture but to fix this issue will take real sacrifices, and I have no time for the folks that will follow this up by looking the other way when the request comes for people to make that sacrifice by putting their X in the box.

* amazing as it was, that's less than £1 per household as an average across the UK's 28M households. We're in the hole for several orders of magnitude higher.

Haven’t a clue

banging pots and pans once a week, or putting £10 into Geraint’s fund (or indeed Captain Tom’s*) is a lovely gesture but to fix this issue will take real sacrifices, and I have no time for the folks that will follow this up by looking the other way when the request comes for people to make that sacrifice by putting their X in the box.

Yep, and before anyone starts I'd happily pay more tax if was used to improve health and social care or improve social mobility.

Well if we're locked down much longer he'll end up with a tax bill.

https://proactpartnership.com/blog/how-many-days-can-uk-expats-spend-in-the-uk-and-retain-non-resident-status

Yes, probably a bit much to expect you to read the thread before commenting, or any of the supporting material e.g. the GoFundMe page everyone’s talking about. 🙄

There are conditions that allow for folk residing elsewhere to come back for x number of days per year, without having to pay tax, as linked to above. Where someone is at a particular moment is irrelevant, unless they’ve been there for an extended period of time previously. As said above, if lockdown continues, he may well be liable for tax. Again, hate the game, not the player.

Of course you don’t ..
You really are special!

I’ll refrain from giving my opinion of you.

As I said above. It matters little where he is at a given moment. What matters is how long he is here around said moment. You never know, you might get your wish for him to pay tax if he’s here long enough.

Again, hate the game, not the player.

Hate's a bit strong. More resigned disapproval for our country's proud Monegasque.

Actually are they our country's? If they were from the US they'd have to give up US citizenship to not pay the IRS tax on income. I'll guess that G's kept British citizenship.

Re 'the game', there's no rule than when your income exceeds a certain amount you have to go and live in Monaco. A few do, most don't.

Btw and just out of interest, anyone have an idea how much G's sponsor Zwift have made out of the crisis so far? I mean good luck to them. I can think of a couple of friends who've now got a set up partly because of lock-down. Tempted to join them...

So my initial thoughts when I started reading the thread, in relation to G were:
1 - Seems like a really nice bloke
2 - Fair play to him to raise some cash (yes despite him being sponsored)
3 - Tax evading scumbag

But, as the principle of taxation is to pay for the services of the country you live in, then if he mainly lives in Monaco then fair enough really. But, keeping your citizenship is another thing - if you want to go live somewhere else, and pay their taxes instead, then I think you should take on their citizenship and give up your old one.

As you demonstrate – your opinion is irrelevant and quite frankly nonsensical at best.

How is it any more or less relevant than yours? You’re the one applying your own levels of morality to the law, yet my opinion is nonsensical?

Where have I mentioned the law?

Yep - your opinions are irrelevant and nonsensical as you once again demonstrate.

But, as the principle of taxation is to pay for the services of the country you live in, then if he mainly lives in Monaco then fair enough really. But, keeping your citizenship is another thing – if you want to go live somewhere else, and pay their taxes instead, then I think you should take on their citizenship and give up your old one.

I think this thread is completely missing some of the practicalities of the situation.

As much as I'm sure it's being used as a tax haven, you only have to take one look at Monaco's geographical location to determine that it's an ideal base for pro cyclists, situated right between the French and Italian Alps, and a relatively short drive from either Switzerland or Spain. The allure isn't entirely financial.

And a rider's career may last 5 or 10 years. Geraint is probably approaching the end of his.

Surely for most riders it's a practical but temporary residence?

I'm also assuming the team spend a lot of time training together which impacts on any individual choice of residence.

He could have supported the NHS a lot more by paying tax on his multimillion pound cycling contracts instead of moving to Monaco …

You are criticising him for not paying tax. I’m saying that legally, he doesn’t have to, depending on how long he’s been here before the zwifting or will be after.

The allure isn’t entirely financial.

......really? France or Italy or Switzerland or Spain would work too so why Monaco what is it about those what 200ha that make it soooooo well placed?

it’s an ideal base for pro cyclists

It's a good base for sure with pros and cons. Other bases are available. Most pro-cyclists don't live in Monaco. I'm sure reasons for doing so are multi-faceted, but not paying tax on income is a big part.

People who decide to take up residence are deciding to not fund schools, roads, army, healthcare etc etc over here (or France or Spain). The decision has other consequences, bringing restrictions on the number of days they can spend in the UK which wouldn't apply if instead they lived a few miles up the coast. The motive is clearly to avoid paying towards our services. Folks can do this but shouldn't expect approval given they've benefited from this country to get where they are, and that most will return and take advantage of our services and infrastructure again in later years.

People who decide to take up residence are deciding to not fund schools, roads, army, healthcare etc etc over here (or France or Spain). The decision has other consequences, bringing restrictions on the number of days they can spend in the UK which wouldn’t apply if instead they lived a few miles up the coast. The motive is clearly to avoid paying towards our services. Folks can do this but shouldn’t expect approval given they’ve benefited from this country to get where they are, and that most will return and take advantage of our services and infrastructure again in later years.

Then steps should be taken by government(s) to stop this from happening, without unfairly punishing everyone else.

^^^
Agreed. Until then I'm going to tut.

(And as we see in the current crisis, social sanctions ain't nowt.)

France or Italy or Switzerland or Spain would work too so why Monaco what is it about those what 200ha that make it soooooo well placed?

Don’t the expats that live in Switzerland get a hard time for tax reasons as well? (Lewis Hamilton springs to mind, could be wrong) If he moved to any of those countries listed, he’d still not be paying tax here, would he?

……really? France or Italy or Switzerland or Spain would work too so why Monaco what is it about those what 200ha that make it soooooo well placed?

I said the allure isn't entirely financial. There's absolutely no doubt that it is a factor.

But let's be honest, if you can pick any one of those places, or you can live smack bang in the middle of all of them and make some hefty savings on your income, and all your team mates live there already, which one are you going to pick?

I'm not even entirely condoning it to be honest. There is merit in some of the stuff that's being said. But there is a scale here, and I think Geraint is quite a long way from being at the Dr Evil end of it.

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This topic has 112 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 26 minutes ago by butcher.
Viewing 33 posts - 81 through 113 (of 113 total)←123
Geraint Thomas NHS fundraiser on Zwift
BadlyWiredDog
Subscriber
You can’t magic the money, it has to come out of something else?

I’m not quite sure how you went from my comment to this, but I would happily scrap Trident and divert that expenditure to the NHS for a start. Or HS2 for that matter.

Posted 9 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
tomhoward
Subscriber
£100s upon £100s of millions worth ? You think that would have made a dent in what the NHS needs ?

Literally 1000 £million. I think it would be better spent there, yes.

Posted 9 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
weeksy
Subscriber
but I would happily scrap Trident and divert that expenditure to the NHS for a start. Or HS2 for that matter.

So because you don’t want them that means they’re invalid ? Hmmm not sure that’s how things work in the world.

It got to this because there’s so many people who say “fix the NHS, do this for the NHS” but without any idea how it would actually be done in the real world.

We’re talking MASSIVE amounts of money here, not a pittance.

Posted 9 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
MoreCashThanDash
Subscriber
The money should come from taxation. You, and me, and all those on the minimum wage. Which I’m fine with – I’ll contribute my share to get public services I want to see.

And as long as millionaire celebs and businesses can export their money offshore, it means our taxes will go up more than they might otherwise need to.

Posted 9 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
weeksy
Subscriber
The money should come from taxation. You, and me, and all those on the minimum wage. Which I’m fine with – I’ll contribute my share to get public services I want to see.

SO tehy’ll increase tax and the UK public are OK with that ? 1% ? 2% ? 5% ?

I’m not seeing that being accepted.

Posted 9 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
tomhoward
Subscriber
And as long as millionaire celebs and businesses can export their money offshore, it means our taxes will go up more than they might otherwise need to.

Agree. But if those millionaires don’t live here, and don’t make their money here, I struggle to see why they should pay tax here. Different story for people who DO live and make money here, but as mentioned above, it’s the game, not the players, that should be criticised.

Posted 8 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
BadlyWiredDog
Subscriber
So because you don’t want them that means they’re invalid ? Hmmm not sure that’s how things work in the world.

Well, I’m not entirely convinced that we need an independent nuclear deterrent or a massively expensive high speed rail system, but that’s how discussion about budgeting works. My argument would be that we need a well-funded NHS rather more than the ability to wipe humanity off the face of the earth – or at least bits of Russia – at the press of a button.

I’m not even saying I’m 100% correct, but you asked where money could come from and I gave you a couple of suggestions. Your reply is that my argument might not be valid, which is fair enough, that’s how discussion works, but just saying ‘you might be wrong’ isn’t that persuasive.

I’d argue that if you want to take the whole idea that running a nation state is like running a household, having nuclear weapons is a bit like insisting you need a Ferrari as well as your normal household car. Which is fine if you can afford it, but if it means you’re struggling to, say, pay the electricity bill, isn’t necessarily the best use of your finances.

Why do we need nuclear weapons?

Sorry, this is just a dead end. What we really need to do, like some of the nordic states, is shift the way we think about taxation levels and wealth distribution.

Posted 8 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
weeksy
Subscriber
Why do we need nuclear weapons?

I guess the simplest answer is “because other lunatics have them”

Although in your defence i’m not convinced in a civilised society we need them either… but there are some really special people leading governments in various parts of the world… So i can kinda see why we do.

Don’t get me wrong here, i think the NHS really needs to be funded better and really deserves to be… even before this pandemic ever appeared…. But it’s not really that simple is it…. As you’ve compared it to running a household, that’s exactly the phrase we’ll use, it really is like that, it’s a finite budget of funds and putting it into pot 3 means it has to come out of 4, or 6, or 12…

I don’t know the answers, i am not saying for a second i do… but i’m not convinced there’s ANYONE on here who has a grasp of the decisions that governments have to make day in day out.. Do i think the government is great/right/correct, no, not really…. But that doesn’t mean some random bloke in the street could do better as so many seem to think.

Posted 8 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
BadlyWiredDog
Subscriber
But that doesn’t mean some random bloke in the street could do better as so many seem to think.

I don’t think anyone’s suggested handing over the control of state expenditure to a ‘random bloke in the street’ – it would make good television though 🙂

The rest of it is about living in a democracy. If you don’t believe we have a right to scrutinise government spending and policies, then you might as well live in China or Putin’s Russia.

Regardless of all that, you wouldn’t catch me spending 36 hours on Zwift 🙂

Posted 8 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
butcher
Member
He’s a really good athlete and I’m sure he’s doing this with the best intentions, but the idea of reframing the NHS as a charity has the potential to do more harm than good.

There is some truth in this, but it is absolutely not the fault of anyone raising money or making charitable donations. This is the symptom of an overall problem elsewhere.

And it’s not tax-avoidance either.

We know the NHS have received some of the largest funding cuts in its entire history during the past decade. And yet the government have stood there and told bare faced lies about it, proclaiming they are better funded than ever, and large parts of the media have backed them up.

Even people here are asking where the money should come from, like it just doesn’t exist. Yet it did exist prior to the current government. Perhaps it was never perfect, and it never will be, but it was much better funded under the Labour government. The figures tell us this, and the doctors and nurses at the NHS are all telling us this. In fact it was better funded by every government prior to the current one.

But through all the corruption and disinformation we have in the age of information, we actually have little understanding collectively as a nation of WTAF is going on. And that vulnerability is being used against us. And as such, a lot of people still think the government are doing a fantastic job.

Don’t blame a guy riding a bike for charity, raising almost half a million for a good cause.

I actually thought what Geraint did was a really nice touch, highlighting the efforts nurses put in on a daily basis.

Posted 8 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
anagallis_arvensis
Member
WHere did you want the money that you put in the NHS have been taken from ?

Defence ? Terrorist attacks ? Floods ? Roads ? Police ? Litter ? Parks ? Regeneration ?

People paying taxes I reckon given the theme of the thread.

Going into tax exile and paying into an ISA are in no way similar.

Different ends of the same spectrum.

They really are not, one is a government supported scheme to encourage savings in relatively small amounts, the other isnt. If you can tell which is which ypu can understand the massive difference. I’ve never seen a government scheme for the other one.

Posted 8 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
zilog6128
Subscriber
Agree. But if those millionaires don’t live here, and don’t make their money here, I struggle to see why they should pay tax here. Different story for people who DO live and make money here, but as mentioned above, it’s the game, not the players, that should be criticised.

@tomhoward Ok. I’ll accept that Mr Thomas LOVES Monaco, has fully embraced the lifestyle, and permanently relocated there – having decided he much prefers it to Wales. He definitely DOES NOT have a Monaco address purely for tax “efficiency” purposes. Remind me again, where is he, right now? At home, right?

Posted 7 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
tomhoward
Subscriber
Remind me again, where is he, right now? At home, right?

Haven’t a clue. I do know that living somewhere doesn’t mean you have to be there all the time though.

Posted 7 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
theotherjonv
Subscriber
SO tehy’ll increase tax and the UK public are OK with that ? 1% ? 2% ? 5% ?

I’m not seeing that being accepted.

I got murdered for this on another thread, but I’ll try again….. banging pots and pans once a week, or putting £10 into Geraint’s fund (or indeed Captain Tom’s*) is a lovely gesture but to fix this issue will take real sacrifices, and I have no time for the folks that will follow this up by looking the other way when the request comes for people to make that sacrifice by putting their X in the box.

* amazing as it was, that’s less than £1 per household as an average across the UK’s 28M households. We’re in the hole for several orders of magnitude higher.

Posted 7 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
zilog6128
Subscriber
Haven’t a clue

@tomhoward Yes, probably a bit much to expect you to read the thread before commenting, or any of the supporting material e.g. the GoFundMe page everyone’s talking about. 🙄

Posted 6 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
anagallis_arvensis
Member
banging pots and pans once a week, or putting £10 into Geraint’s fund (or indeed Captain Tom’s*) is a lovely gesture but to fix this issue will take real sacrifices, and I have no time for the folks that will follow this up by looking the other way when the request comes for people to make that sacrifice by putting their X in the box.

Yep, and before anyone starts I’d happily pay more tax if was used to improve health and social care or improve social mobility.

Posted 6 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
homerun
Member
Well if we’re locked down much longer he’ll end up with a tax bill.

https://proactpartnership.com/blog/how-many-days-can-uk-expats-spend-in-the-uk-and-retain-non-resident-statusPosted 6 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
tomhoward
Subscriber
Yes, probably a bit much to expect you to read the thread before commenting, or any of the supporting material e.g. the GoFundMe page everyone’s talking about. 🙄

There are conditions that allow for folk residing elsewhere to come back for x number of days per year, without having to pay tax, as linked to above. Where someone is at a particular moment is irrelevant, unless they’ve been there for an extended period of time previously. As said above, if lockdown continues, he may well be liable for tax. Again, hate the game, not the player.

Posted 6 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
mooman
Member
tomhoward
Subscriber
Remind me again, where is he, right now? At home, right?

Haven’t a clue. I do know that living somewhere doesn’t mean you have to be there all the time though

Of course you don’t ..
You really are special!

Posted 4 hours ago
REPLY
tomhoward
Subscriber
Of course you don’t ..
You really are special!

I’ll refrain from giving my opinion of you.

As I said above. It matters little where he is at a given moment. What matters is how long he is here around said moment. You never know, you might get your wish for him to pay tax if he’s here long enough.

Posted 4 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
johnx2
Member
Again, hate the game, not the player.

Hate’s a bit strong. More resigned disapproval for our country’s proud Monegasque.

Actually are they our country’s? If they were from the US they’d have to give up US citizenship to not pay the IRS tax on income. I’ll guess that G’s kept British citizenship.

Re ‘the game’, there’s no rule than when your income exceeds a certain amount you have to go and live in Monaco. A few do, most don’t.

Btw and just out of interest, anyone have an idea how much G’s sponsor Zwift have made out of the crisis so far? I mean good luck to them. I can think of a couple of friends who’ve now got a set up partly because of lock-down. Tempted to join them…

Posted 4 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
mooman
Member
tomhoward
Subscriber
Of course you don’t ..
You really are special!

I’ll refrain from giving my opinion of you

As you demonstrate – your opinion is irrelevant and quite frankly nonsensical at best.

Posted 2 hours ago
REPLY
darkroomtim
Subscriber
So my initial thoughts when I started reading the thread, in relation to G were:
1 – Seems like a really nice bloke
2 – Fair play to him to raise some cash (yes despite him being sponsored)
3 – Tax evading scumbag

But, as the principle of taxation is to pay for the services of the country you live in, then if he mainly lives in Monaco then fair enough really. But, keeping your citizenship is another thing – if you want to go live somewhere else, and pay their taxes instead, then I think you should take on their citizenship and give up your old one.

Posted 2 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
tomhoward
Subscriber
As you demonstrate – your opinion is irrelevant and quite frankly nonsensical at best.

How is it any more or less relevant than yours? You’re the one applying your own levels of morality to the law, yet my opinion is nonsensical?

Posted 2 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT

mooman
Member
Where have I mentioned the law?

Yep – your opinions are irrelevant and nonsensical as you once again demonstrate.

Posted 1 hour ago
REPLY | REPORT
butcher
Member
But, as the principle of taxation is to pay for the services of the country you live in, then if he mainly lives in Monaco then fair enough really. But, keeping your citizenship is another thing – if you want to go live somewhere else, and pay their taxes instead, then I think you should take on their citizenship and give up your old one.

I think this thread is completely missing some of the practicalities of the situation.

As much as I’m sure it’s being used as a tax haven, you only have to take one look at Monaco’s geographical location to determine that it’s an ideal base for pro cyclists, situated right between the French and Italian Alps, and a relatively short drive from either Switzerland or Spain. The allure isn’t entirely financial.

And a rider’s career may last 5 or 10 years. Geraint is probably approaching the end of his.

Surely for most riders it’s a practical but temporary residence?

I’m also assuming the team spend a lot of time training together which impacts on any individual choice of residence.

Posted 1 hour ago
REPLY | REPORT
tomhoward
Subscriber

You are criticising him for not paying tax. I’m saying that ..

Your saying your usual nonsense again is what your saying.

*Copies whole page of thread into a quote, whilst accusing someone of being ‘special’, irrelevant and nonsensical*

Bravo. Oh, and it’s ‘you’re’. Maybe ask an adult if you aren’t sure.

Quickly trying to eat my food whilst reading your silly comments. Whats your excuse for the nonsense you been writing?

Oh, and it’s ‘you’re’. Maybe ask an adult if you aren’t sure.

As my previous comments on this thread demonstrate - I have no issue with people having different opinions and values to my own; I actually enjoy hearing opposite opinions to my own ... and sometimes I am actually convinced that my own view or opinion has been wrong.
That said, my patience runs dry quickly with idiots spouting nonsensical rubbish.

<mod>
I suggest you work on your patience before we ban the pair of you. It's possible to have a difference of opinion without slinging personal insults so knock it off.
</mod>

Fine, I’m out.

Cougar - you are so unfair; it was getting to the toys out of pram stage.

Agreed. It was getting silly.

And off he scurries ...

Yes because the terrain, temperature and degree of care from other road users (and the fact that his team is based on mainland Europe) etc and the race being in France, the UK would be optimal training for the tour. Poor trolling again .

You seem a bit fixated- is it jealousy?

Cyclist trains in country in which he will be competing, shocker!

@mooman - do you need a hug?