[Closed] General winter tyre advice (cars)

I run pilotsport 4's in the summer and Goodyear ultragrip 9+ (i think) in the winter, i would say there is a minor decrease in fuel economy but nothing noticeable really.

As a Soft Southerner, we don't have a lot of call for Proper Winter Tyres round here very often (if ever) so I reckon I'd probably want one set of tyres to do everything, if that was possible.

I swap Bridgestone 225/45 17s for Yokohama 205/55 16s and I've never noticed much of a difference.

Why not go for the Michelin CrossClimate, OP? I had them on my Jag X-Type until they had to be replaced just recently, and found that they checked all the boxes. And I say that as a Canadian ex-pat and long-term incurable tyre nerd.

I am now running Vredestein Quatrac Pros, and really liking them; but if you read the hype about the Michelins and think it is all too good to be true, it's not. They really are what they're cracked up to be.

I have never considered whether running winter tyres over summer ones in winter would affect fuel economy for the simple reason that it is so unimportant compared to grip. I have left winters on all year round in the past and they are noisier I think. This was in a car that did less than 8000 miles a year and worth a few hundred quid so buying and running 2 sets of tyres began to make less sense economically. The cost of changing tyres twice may well have been more than any added fuel costs between March and November. If I was driving to the alps in winter I would fit winter tyres no question. All season tyres are available but never used them and not sure they would pass muster. Certainly some parts of Europe stipulate winter tyres for several months of the year on certain roads.

As a Soft Southerner, we don’t have a lot of call for Proper Winter Tyres round here very ever

Fixed that. I've been driving in the south since 1981 and probably twice in that time have needed winter tyres. That's 2 journeys.

Loads of all-season tyres on the market now. Pick one from your favourite vendor ensuring it has the 3PMSF symbol which is what a lot of European authorities would regard as 'certified winter tyre'. See https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/winter-tyres-don-t-rely-on-the-m-s-mark

The only reason I would consider separate summer and winter tyres is having car that 'demands spirited driving' where dry and wet summer grip really mattered. But that's not me.

I've gone from Goodyear Efficient Grip to Michelin AllSeasons on Galaxy - maybe a mile per gallon less over the years we had it.

I've gone from Michelin AllSeason all corners<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> to combo of Maxxis Ap2 (rear) and Hankook 4s on the ovlov, and again I reckon it's a smidge less.</span>

spirited driving

= driving like a ****?

Fixed that. I’ve been driving in the south since 1981 and probably twice in that time have needed winter tyres. That’s 2 journeys.

Where do you live ? I would find it very unusual for the temperature to have dropped significantly below 7 Celsius on only two occasions since 1981.
Winter or cross climate tyres are not just for snow.

Fixed that. I’ve been driving in the south since 1981 and probably twice in that time have needed winter tyres. That’s 2 journeys.

I live in the South and I'm pretty sure there have been more than 2 occasions since '81 when the temperature dipped below 7 or so degrees (usually quoted as the figure at which Winter tyres start to out perform Summers).

edit - so what he^^ said!

I've also been known to venture out of The South during Nov-Mar.

As a Soft Southerner, we don’t have a lot of call for Proper Winter Tyres round here very often (if ever) so I reckon I’d probably want one set of tyres to do everything, if that was possible.

Fixed that. I’ve been driving in the south since 1981 and probably twice in that time have needed winter tyres. That’s 2 journeys.

YMMV (literally) but winter tyres are not just for snow and ice, different compounds are more effective on cold damp road compared to summer tyres. I opt for Crossclimates, not a true winter but if I had only one set I'd compromise wear, efficiency and noise in summer when roads are drier generally to maintain grip and stopping distance in winter.

If I was driving to the alps in winter I would fit winter tyres no question.

It's compulsory in much of France after Nov 1.

= driving like a ****?

Pretty much, yes. But as an avid viewer of Police Interceptors I'd expect plod to have seasonal tyres on their jambutty cars, motorbikes, helicopters and dogs.

Winter tyres are a bit noisier, and definitely squirmier than normal tyres. I suspect the tyres themselves wear more quickly than using normal tyres but I haven't really noticed this and I'm sure the cost of changing tyres twice a year outweighs that massively.

My wife has had winter tyres on year-round for at least the last 10 years on 3 different cars.
Winter tyres in the summer = fine
Normal tyres in the winter = not fine

That said, when these tyres wear out, I'll go for some all-seasons. They seem like a better compromise.

I reckon going to all season Maxxis from whatever mismatched set of summer tyres came with my van made about 2mpg difference. But there are other factors which have a greater effect, by far the largest one being the speed you drive at.

Useful info, thanks - so it's not like the difference between running slicks and knobblies on my old Kona hardtail, that's good to know!

The CrossClimates look good, will look into those. It's an Octavia 1.5l Dad Wagon estate so "spirited driving" (?!) is unlikely, but keeping efficient while schlepping down motorways is more of a priority. 🙂

There is definitely a marginal difference in economy.

But reasons not to for me would be the tyre wear of a full winter in the summer - it's a lot faster than a summer tyre (I thinks it's meant to be about 50% more) and to compound the issue for the winter tyre to be any good in the actual winter it needs quite a bit more tread than the legal minimum (5mm I think) so if you've worn them down quickly in the summer they might well be bobbins for the winter. The other reason is, contrary to above, it's not about 'spirited driving' - a winter tyre in wet summer temperatures takes a substantial distance further to stop than a summer tyre - like 25% further. Handling reduced too but even grandads (and grandmas) like to be able to stop over as short distance as possible if it saves a baby robin.

Both our cars have two sets of wheels with summers and winters but we live in a colder than usual bit of the highlands in a rural setting with ungritted roads. And a mahossive shed to keep the 2nd sets. Apart from the cost of the 2nd wheels I don't see it as financial issue as both sets of tyres get used up - the 2 pairs last twice as long, so cost neutral. In pretty much every other scenario in the UK however, these days I'd buy all seasons over either just summers, just winters or both. They seem to be so good now.

Using the heater, lights and wipers more in the winter is going to make comparing fuel economy of winter vs summer tyres a difficult job.

FWIW Michelin have just released the CrossClimate 2. Its better in the snow and has lower rolling resistance than the older CrossClimate +. Its ticking all your boxes really

Using the heater, lights and wipers more in the winter is going to make comparing fuel economy of winter vs summer tyres a difficult job.

But that's not the question. The question is do winters reduce their economy in the summer compared to a summer. I have left them on into June/July once and economy definitely improved when I got off my arse and switched them over.

I've run 4 season tyres for the last few years here in the NW of England, and I'm not sure I'd ever go back. Absolutely fine in summer, and way better than summer tyres in winter. I have Cross Climates on the back and Goodyear 4 Seasons on the front (to try something different). This video shows summer vs 4 season vs full winter very well.

Snow Test

Edit: Should also add that both 4 season tyres have the Snowflake symbol, so legal to drive in Austria/Germany in winter

basically do they affect fuel economy much?

I had Dunlop something or other on the Passat when I got it. The first tyre change was to winters and my fuel economy jumped markedly, over 5% IIRC. Then when I put summers back on I went for energy savers and it jumped up a bit more. So good winters can be better than poor summers, but only slightly worse than good summers.

In other words, don't worry about it.

thinking of driving down to the Alps this winter

If you are heading to the Austrian Alps it´s a legal requirement to have winter or all season tyres on your car in wintery conditions.

and as I said already in much of France.

I put Goodyear Vectors on my old Octavia to replace the oe Bridgestone summers. No difference to fuel economy. Much, much quieter. Excellent on cold wet roads and snow.

Currently have 4 of them on my petrol Superb estate and again quiet, and no effect on economy. I get 47mpg at 75mph motorway driving. 52mpg on A roads like Glasgow - Skye and back.

On the Octavia I was the only car that got out our estate after the east from the East snowfall. On an unplowed road with snow above the bottom of the bumper it got me to the main road.

Echo some of the comments above.

Yes you will see a reduction in fuel economy. Assuming you are comparing reasonably good summer tyres with reasonably good winter tyres. I have not done any formal analysis but yes I tend to use a bit more fuel on my winter tyres maybe around ~5%. If you are doing 2K miles a year its maybe not a deal breaker but if doing 20K miles a year it may be something to think about.

Most if not all ski resorts will require you to have 3PMSF rated tyres. I think in the old days it was only required to have M+S rated tyres so if you come across a police person that isn't up to date you may get away with M+S but for full reassurance use a 3PMSF rated tyre. I don't think costs much more and there is a big choice these days so really no reason not to go for a 3PMSF tyre.

I've seen it a couple times where police have set up a checkpoint station at the foothills checking vehicles have adequate tyres before allowing them to continue their journey.

If you are after one set of tyres for all year round use and spend most of your time in the South of England, then I recommend a set of all season tyres (with the snowflake symbol). It will have better dry and warm weather performance than a full winter and should get you better fuel economy.

And as has been stated many times already, All season / winter tyres are not just for snow and ice conditions. They perform better when its colder and in the wet. We get plenty cold wet days in the winter and spring in South England and while winter tyres are not necessary I do find they are useful and give you more safety.

The outgoing crossclimates were ace- we got them on a work car and I was really knocked out by how well they worked. Nothing like as good as any of the full winters I've had on actual snow, but they did very well with low temps, marbly ice, even the deadly refrozen snow. I've got space for winters + summers so I do that but if I didn't I'd definitely get some quality allseasons.

desperatebicycle
Free Member

Fixed that. I’ve been driving in the south since 1981 and probably twice in that time have needed winter tyres.

"Need" is rare. But benefitting from it and being safer on the roads? A lot more than twice.

I got some winter tyres 11 years ago as the all seasons were not up to much at that time and the safety factor in cold weather is huge. Having had some asymmetric and now directional winter tyres I would recommend asymmetric if you do go down the winter route. They are not as good in snow but on cold wet and dry tarmac they feel much better behaved.

However now I have used Cross Climates and Cross Climate 2 on Mrs Sims' car I will be getting them on my car when the current tyre sets wear out. That's in the Midlands and I would recommend the all seasons to you for the South. They work in the snow for your week in the Alps and will be much better most of the year in the UK.

You could try the Quatracs like Saxonrider. I looked for these being asymmetric but could not get them in the right size at the moment.

We have two sets of wheels for our main car. Running winter and summer tyres. The summers wear much quicker in the winter (and on wide 20” tyres that’s a lot of cost), they have lasted well and the winters have lasted the well too since they are only on for about 4-5months. So I reckon that I’m up in tyre cost more than the added fuel costs running winter tyres. I did this with the previous car and then sold the winter tyres/wheels at the first sign of winter snows for a good price.

If anything I think I've had slightly better fuel economy on winter tyres, even when I left them on over the summer once.

My car is a much nicer place to be with winters on, quiet and a nice ride as the summers are on bigger rims and low profile.

I live in the Highlands and have been running winters all year round since 2010. I also drive to the alps every year to ski for a month at least.

My experiences are very similar to other users - fuel economy is 'typically' a bit poorer on winters than summers, but it depends. Better quality winters have been more economical than poor quality summers. But we must be realistic, it's a difference of 1-2 mpg at most and nowhere near the difference a roof rack will make for example. Sadly I am nerdy enough to have kept records over the years....

As far as noise goes my experience has also been varied. I have run budget winters and they have been whisper quiet. I have run budget summers that are so loud as to be unbearable on anything but the smoothest road surface.

My current tyres are Continental Winter Contacts - they are premium models. Overall throughout the year they have been the best of everything I have used, and they feel very good. Wear has been good, and they are pretty quiet but not the quietest. Some budget winters I had were basically silent, but they were very soft so wore more quickly and were very squirmy in summer.

As always when you check the winter tyre reviews you will see there are a myriad of models available but it is very hard to get hold of some of them. My advice is to pick a tyre from the top 5 of each yearly test - they will all be pretty closely scored so they will all be excellent across the board, and they will usually all be from the recognisable and available brands.

From many winter's spent driving in the alps, the thing that will catch you out is fresh snowfall on clear tarmac.  In those conditions on a decent hill winter tyres will not be enough and you will need chains, so budget for them too. Importantly, check your vehicle handbook for the recommended tyre sizes for winter tyres, and what tyre size will allow you to fit chains without fouling the strut - ask me how I know about this! It's possible you will spend a week in resort and not experience those sort of conditions, but as you'll be praying for snow you don't want to be hoping for clear roads at the same time! My current chains are middle of Lidl specials at £25 and are actually pretty good and simple to fit in the dark.

The local plod have done tyre checks on us, it does happen. In my experience it has been at the bottom of a pass which is currently snowy - if you don't have winters you will be required to fit your chains or turn back

If I was only doing a week in the alps and lived south of the borders I would almost certainly be running all season tyres. They really are excellent these days. As always there is a range of models, some with great snow control, some with great wet weather control. I'd probably look at the Vector 4seasons or Nokian Weatherproofs(if available) but again, pick a set from the top 5 in the reviews

As I’ve just mentioned on the T5 tyre thread, a surprising number of commercial vehicles we’ve had through work have Michelin CrossClimates fitted, and now the front tyres on my EcoSport need replacing, I’m getting a pair of Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen3’s put on. I’ve read a bunch of reviews, and this latest version seems to be as good as the likes of the CrossClimates, I can get them through work a bit cheaper than online, and one of the lads can fit them for me. Once the original Goodyear rears are worn, I’ll get a second set of the Vectors and put those on the front.

I never really bothered with the Octavia, ‘cos I only did about 5k miles a year, but now I’m doing around 150-160/week, I need decent rubber.

I was annoyed when my previous company car had cross climates fitted as ‘policy’. This was because I had chosen a hybrid to be economical and thought that the’ tractor’ tyres would hurt this. However they were no worse than the factory for eco tyres on my Corolla estate for fuel, and totally transformed how it drove. Still got 60-70 mpg but So much more grip And the car handled better too. No loss in the summer either. I now have a car with Michelin eco tyres and they were not confidence inspiring on the little bit of ice we had at the weekend. Even with an electric car I would consider cross climates when the current ones wear out, as living in a rural area with lots of single track untreated roads.

Rural NW england here but regular trips up north past Inverness. Used to run summer and then winter tyres on the X5 as it was useless in snow on summer tyres. Then started towing horsebox and just left the winters on all year. Not noticed drop in fuel consumption and tyre wear is better than on the huge wide summers that always wore unevenly no matter alignment and tracking being correct. Winters being smaller and narrower don’t do that and are cheaper!

So good winters can be better than poor summers,

That.
I had some posh winters on the old van, Goodrich Activans, which I did leave on all summer once.Eve took them to Italy in May (35deg! But actually quite useful on some of the Alpine passes on the way back! Still plenty of snow up there)
Anyway, they were loads better than the 'cheapest the garage had' summer tyres, in terms of economy, noise, longevity, etc. No doubt decent summers would have been better still, but that gets expensive
All seasons on the new van now as nowhere to keep a spare set now, will see how they get on in the ice shortly...

I used Crossclimates on an estate and a hatchback, both front wheel drive, and drove to the alps a few times with no dramas. Also great for wet muddy British roads. I'd go for them.

Now in Canada, I've just changed to winter tyres today - but have been driving around at motorway speeds in light snow on all-season tyres for a couple of weeks now with no real issues (4wd Golf).

Proper winter tyres are definitely better in heavy snow - but for what you're saying, a good all-season one with the mountain/flocon on the sidewall will also be great, eg Crossclimates.

If there's one thing that becomes clear in this thread, it's that there's no one right answer. That's not surprising, really, with some of us more than 500 miles further north than others. Plus special needs, like being legal and sensible when climbing up to Alpine ski resorts in winter.
'It depends' is the best answer anyone can give. For me, living half a mile down a farm track in rural Angus, it's an easy decision. I want to be able to get out of the farm when the track has been packed into icy ruts to buy food or to ski, both by getting up the main roads to the ski resorts and on minor roads in the back glens for a day of xc or touring. Having the right tyres on matters when I'm committed to medical duties at a site or event and simply must be there.
So, for the Superb, it's summers on the alloys; GoodYear Efficientgrip performance and I bought 4 new steel wheels from the OE supplier in Germany, £120 delivered about 4 years ago. On these I use a good winter tyre, to get the best performance in the sort of conditions we experience- GoodYear Ultragrip, currently the 9. I don't need a pure, scandi style snow tyre but I do need something that has some teeth and the ability to claw its way up a steep snow slope. And crawl slowly down again...
The Mrs has a Fabia and she runs winters all year round. A cold wet day in August is still a cold wet day and they grip better in the wet than any summer tyre, when it really matters. Her low overall mileage and frequent commutes to Kirriemuir don't justify two sets of wheels & tyres.

https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-crossclimate-2?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr87Q7rbC9AIVMoBQBh0EIwUlEAAYAiAAEgKc2fD_BwE

If there’s one thing that becomes clear in this thread, it’s that there’s no one right answer.

The one consistent thing you spot is that the only people who think summer tyres are "fine" all year round have never tried winter or all-season tyres

I have used winter tyres, and I'm still not planning on getting winters for the Merc. I have in fact not bothered to put the winters on before, in mild winters. But then I live in a mild part of the country.

I have just bought a set of smaller narrower 18 inch wheels actually, so I could run winters on them and keep the 19s for the summer - but I bought the 18s because I dislike the ride quality on 19s all year round. So I could get *another* set of 18s for winter but maybe that can wait til next year as it's a bit of an outlay! All-seasons not available in that size, nor are steel wheels.

I've never run anything other than summer tyres. We have bought a little Aygo for my daughter to learn in, and I'm thinking of All Seasons when the tyres wear out, as they aren't much more cash on such a small tyre - my car or the Mrs, talking a big premium.

Thanks for all the advice - I've been in that camp of thinking the stock Conti tyres were "fine", but will probably be getting a set of Vector 4Seasons by the looks of it!
And some snow chains...

Actually, good point - I could get chains for the Merc and indeed our other cars. The problem being that we live on a hill which is south facing, but in a city. The main roads get cleared but the last 400m or so to our house doesn't, which includes the hill. The hill thaws readily then re-freezes so gets completely covered in ice. Chains would be perfect as I'd get better grip than anything else and be able to just pull them off when I get to the cleared road.

Or just park at the bottom of the hill.
Fitting and removing chains isn't a trivial task.

I'd park 400m from the house rather than take snow chains on/off for that distance.

I’d park 400m from the house rather than take snow chains on/off for that distance

This. My fingers have barely recovered from fitting chains to a hire car in the freezing Alpine winter circa 10 years ago.
What about snow socks? Any used them?

I've used snow socks on a previous car (a rear-wheel drive Merc) and they were very effective but not really useful for longer use.

Now we have a place in the Cairngorms and travel up their each week I've fitted Michelin CrossClimates to my current rear-wheel drive Merc and so far I've been impressed by them - enough that my wife's SLK will be getting a set too.

Nokian tyres, Finnish make I've used them in the past and they are excellent. They do an all season and some really good winter tyres.

I use Michelin Alpin but still have a set of chains in the boot. When driving up to the resort the Winter tyres work well on the first slush and snow but there's stage where the wet snow means little grip (this is well beyond the point cars on Summer or even cross climates have got). If I get past that point the snow gets drier and grip improves. However once in a while the slippy stuff coincides with the steepest point of the climb and chains are the only way forward.

I bought a set of alloy wheels and Nokian winter tyres last week, off a guy at work who's recently sold his Superb. £250.

The first chance I had to fit them was last Saturday, I had to sweep the storm Arwen snow off the drive to be able to push the trolley jack under the car.

It's nice to hear someone recommend the tyres.

E-car driver living in rural Aberdeenshire. I'm actually getting some CrossClimates fitted tomorrow - they will stay on all year.
For my application, i'm prepared to accept a few miles less range for surefire handling and the ability to handle cold weather / snow.

The Golf GTD that I've just sold had CrossClimates on too. They were brilliant for everything from 'spirited' summer driving to calf deep snow.

Or just park at the bottom of the hill.
Fitting and removing chains isn’t a trivial task.

I live at the bottom, have done for 15 years so I'm quite familiar with where to park and when.

You don't always know when it's going to snow and how much, you can't always park at the top, and the top of the hill also doesn't get ploughed, the ploughed bit is double yellow lines. But yes otherwise thanks for the tip, I'd never have considered it 🙄

I used to have a 1.2 Fiat Panda and fitted a set of Pirelli winter tyres and they were quite simply superb. The extra grip is amazing and worth the little extra it cost me as I had a spare set of steel wheels and a shed to keep the other ones in for 6 months of the year.

The first snow that hit I must’ve overtaken 50 cars - who were all doing about 5mph - on a half mile straight on my way to work.
A few weeks later I drove about three miles into a forest to watch a rally and there was at least a foot of snow and didn’t cause a problem at all, no other cars came in behind me.

Converted. Should be mandatory but stupid people that would moan…

Where do you store a second set of tyres and where do you have them fitted?

I keep a second set of wheels in a corner of the garage and swap them myself or more usually get the local tyre place do them for £5 a wheel.

Under s tarp on a board in the garden

Id imagine the garage will fit them. If unable but more so if all that's an issue. All season tyres .......

If anything we should be swapping the summer tyres on when conditions allow if we require them......

You will still need to carry chains if you go to the alps

Personally if you live south of Scotland I would stick with normal tyres and buy some snow socks for the one in a zillion time it snows or you would require winter tyres

Running Goodyear vectors a year now. Been fine all summer and they are great on our wet miserable roads in Scotland 🙂

Funnily enough I do have a set of snow chains as well as the winter wheels, although have never actually used them here in Scotland. The single time that I have used them was in Spain. The irony of it! We had the only car to get out of the hotel drive that day, near Granada and to then get up the hill to ski up at Sierra Nevada. Perfect powder day, with only one other small group of off-piste skiers in the whole place.... Sorry, went off down a rabbit hole there.

one in a zillion time it snows or you would require winter tyres

Perhaps needs saying again, winter tyres are not just for snow. I would agree that in many parts of the uk it doesn’t snow often, but it is very often cold (below 7 Celsius) and wet.
Edit: perhaps if I only drove in well gritted metropolitan areas I might not bother, but in the real world for me of poorly maintained and often muddy rural and semi rural roads often driving early in the mornings when cold and wet I have chosen to get a set of wheels with winters. When they wear out I will probably get a set of cross climates but still swap to the summers in April.

My rears need replacing, 255/35r18 isn't a cheap winter tyre size!

And like anything, once you start going down the rabbit hole of reading reviews I have no idea what to get 🙄

I found it did affect economy, but not outside the margin for error.

If I did the same round trip Reading to Manchester and back they might be 1-2mpg worse on the computer. But then the 50mph roadworks on the m6 or the M42 smart section being at 60mph would have as much difference. So even in that controlled scenario it wasn't all that noticeable. And I was doing that trip twice weekly for 3 months so was well attuned to traffic levels, keeping a light right foot and how much filling up cost.

Close enough that I figured it was cheaper overall that when they hit 4mm it was cheaper to just wear them out over the summer than it was to fit new summer tyres.

As for whether they were needed? It's VERY marginal.

I'd driven the same car through snow deep enough to beach it on summer tyres. Similarly it would still slide on winter tyres, they're not spikes. Last year I had winter front tyres and summer rears on the Berlingo because someone was giving a pair of brand new winter wheels away for free. It still understeered. So even the "if you don't fit 4 then it'll just oversteer into a ditch" advice is only really relevant if your car has such perfect 50/50 balance that it would be noticeable (the berlingo does not, it understeers and that's all it ever does, and it does it at comedically low speeds).

If you're ****ing up aften enough to challenge the limits of tyre grip regularly, then I'd suggest driving lessons would trump new tyres in the safety stakes.

Are the all-seasons any noisier than a good quiet summer tyre?

If you’re **** up aften enough to challenge the limits of tyre grip regularly, then I’d suggest driving lessons would trump new tyres in the safety stakes.

Numerous complaints about your post TINAS sorry, but this one stands out.

It's not always YOUR **** up that requires good tyres to avoid.

Numerous complaints about your post TINAS

Molgrips outs himself as a mod. This would explain why some of my posts have been removed recently. We're not allowed to comment on moderation so I'll just say that I miss Cougar.

Edit: and having reread TINAS post, the bit you quote is perectly reasonable, Molgrips. Read it again and think again.

Molgrips outs himself as a mod. This would explain why some of my posts have been removed recently.

No, I meant *I* have numerous complaints about it.

I run Pirelli tyres on an SUV. The year-round tyres they do are not very good in snow. Now I switch between winter & summer tyres.

Never been stopped in the alps yet so no opportunity for smugness - I live in hope.

Are the all-seasons any noisier than a good quiet summer tyre?

Yes for the winter ones, but no worse than a poor summer tyre. I deliberately always bought the quietest summer tyres which were always the eco versions (Dunlop blue response, Michelin energy saver, conti eco contact, etc) but the Avon Ice Tourings were no worse than Uniroyal RainExperts.

The Berlingo is noisy enough to drown out any tyre choice so it's now moot.

Are the all-seasons any noisier than a good quiet summer tyre?

I can hear my (much chunkier looking) Maxxis AP2 above the three Hankook 4S's and before them the Michelin Cross Climate's.

I don't think my Conti Viking grip are any noisier than my summers (Conti's again), and the impact on range is pretty minimal (~5%). But I am pretty sure you'll have a game time in summers on my road that's now gone 3,4 cms of slop on it, and won't be melting fully on a week. No matter how awesumz your driving is (and in winter it probably isn't as clever as you think) I'll take the mandatory winters thanks :.)