You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
[i]I work for one of the quangos and our pension is self funding yet it still gets called into question when public sector pension get looked into.[/i]
All that means is that your budget pays for it, and your budget is paid for by the taxpayer... But surely the only way its 'self-funding' is if its a money-purchase scheme?
And Pension Holidays were something really that business did in response to Govt changes - and back again...
That's talking about ending pension holidays due to changes.
And they're the ones that started it:
And then Gordon Brown stepped in.
The Labour party aren't moaning because they have tried on several occasions to reform public sector pensions and retirement ages, but have always ended up folding.
It's pretty simple - Unions a) give a lot of funding to the Labour party and b) have voting rights. This makes it extremely difficult for them to tackle the issue. Labour know (but don't publicly say) that some kind of public sector pension reform is needed, and it might as well be someone else getting the blame for it.
because they don't want to be seen to be sticking up for the public sector as the tory press have so successfully convinced everyone that the pensions need reforming.
😆 Or that.
And then Gordon Brown stepped in.
Yes, just carrying on where the real tories left off, but this is what happens when you let tory style politicians run the country since 1979.
As I said pensions have been mishandled for decades.
In both cases BDO assumed that the pair's salaries would rise by 5 per cent per year and that they would pay 4 per cent of their wages into a pension fund. It was also assumed that the stock market would continue to rise in line with historic trends and that shares would pay a typical 3 per cent dividend yield. Bonds were expected to continue to pay an interest yield of around 4 per cent.
LOLZ
All that means is that your budget pays for it, and your budget is paid for by the taxpayer... But surely the only way its 'self-funding' is if its a money-purchase scheme?
Not in the slightest. Many quangos, whilst 'backed' by the government, bid competitively for money. No money = no jobs (and no pension).
I just wonder at the comments regarding 'us and them' where 'us' the private sector workers are thinking they are really hard done by, and they are looking over the fence to see 'them' the public sector workers allegedly basking in Gold Plated pensions and excellent terms and conditions. If that was really the case why didn't they join the public sector when there were vacancies?? and do you REALLY think that once this Government has slashed the Pensions, wages and terms and conditions of Public Sector workers they will reduce the Income Tax for the ordinary tax payer, if you do then you are a fool. Stop being taken in by the propaganda machine and give the Public Sector workers the credit and pay/pensions they deserve.
I dunno about all that - I was just wondering how [s]we[/s] I was going to get to work if the rail network shut down...
Rail isn't in the public sector...
Stop being taken in by the propaganda machine and give the Public Sector workers the credit and pay/pensions they deserve.
Having worked in both and subsequently left the civil service, very few of the people I worked for and with really earnt the pay/pensions they got. Including me. I left because I couldn't face another 30yrs of bumbling mediocrity in exchange for flexi-time, 6 weeks leave a year, and a really good pension.
Face it, most people would bite their employers hand off if they offered pension terms anything close to what is being proposed. I would.
Face it, most people would bite their employers hand off if they offered pension terms anything close to what is being proposed. I would
. I left because I couldn't face another 30yrs of bumbling mediocrity in exchange for flexi-time, 6 weeks leave a year, and a[b] really good pension[/b].
😯
Your point?
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Rail isn't in the public sector...
"General strike..." 🙄
Not really. The civil service pension scheme wasn't enough to keep me working with a bunch of incompetent, lazy ****wits. So I left.
My current employment challenges me, interests me and I work much harder as a result. There is no pension scheme. I would bite their hand off if they offered anything close to the terms currently being whinged about by my former colleagues. They won't but I'd still rather be where I am.
Not really. The civil service pension scheme wasn't enough to keep me working with a bunch of incompetent, lazy ****. So I left.
Funny I know someone else who said the same, I can't comment though as don't work for them. I do suspect there's as many private sectors the same though.
I would bite their hand off if they offered anything close to the terms currently being whinged about by my former colleagues.
Well that's because it's better than their current offer, what about if they were to make your current pension worse for paying in more and had to work another 6 years for it?
That would be quite tough as I currently don't have one.
8yrs in the civil service one though which is worth quite frankly a ridiculous amount considering how much I paid in.
Edit: and for the record, eroded pensions would be the least of the civil service problems if I was in charge. Sack the right 50% and I reckon you could still output the same amount and still knock off early on Friday....
That would be quite tough as I currently don't have one.
It's hypothetical.
It's hypothetical.
Then hypothetically I would leave.
But the masses won't because even that is better than they'll get anywhere else. And they know it.
But the masses won't because even that is better than they'll get anywhere else. And they know it.
So you would leave, where to given there is no better offer and where do you expect these millions of employees to go to even if they decided to?
I don't care, I'm going to ride a bike.
I don't care, I'm going to ride a bike.
Enjoy, I'm on nights so no energy to ride. Think it might be kip time though.
Well that's because it's better than their current offer, what about if they were to make your current pension worse for paying in more and had to work another 6 years for it?
That would probably put you on a par with all those in the private sector who have had wage freezes or decreases, whose workload has decreased because there are no customers and/or lost their jobs.
Probably or does? As I'm on a pay freeze too along with the rest of the NHS. Public sector workers have also had wages and hours reduced plus job loses in some areas. It's not exclusive to the private sector.
Exactly, so why does the public sector think it deserves greater rights, more sympathy and special treatment in the face of a global crisis?
I'm not starting again, it's all been done before. You're going to fight to protect your position and I'm going to get off my arse to improve mine and we'll never agree on the correct course of action.
Exactly, so why does the public sector think it deserves greater rights, more sympathy and special treatment in the face of a global crisis?
Does it? No. They are asking for their pension to be left alone, they're not asking for special rights only that one the perks we get to be left alone.
Like I said before there's often up road and tears from Private sectors when company pensions fail, expecting the Government to bail them out.
I'm not starting again, it's all been done before. You're going to fight to protect your position and I'm going to get off my arse to improve mine and we'll never agree on the correct course of action.
Nice add on.
I'm fighting for something yes. I could get off my arse and look for something else but in the area I live there's nothing I can get to offer me the same pay without starting again from the bottom. I'm very fortunate in I earn a good wage, I'm as secure as can be but not 100%, I get good holidays and currently have a good pension scheme. However, to be doing this job when I'm well into my 60s for the same pension I would have earlier for paying more is not fair. It's as simple as that, not sure why people would expect us to take it on the chin because they chose a job without such perks.
All that means is that your budget pays for it, and your budget is paid for by the taxpayer..But surely the only way its 'self-funding' is if its a money-purchase scheme?
Unless folk in the public sector work for nothing you could always argue taxpayers are paying for it because we are. Equally in this example if we increase their contribution [ the proposal to teachers]we are still paying for it. the govt is not spending any less as a result of the change. No saving either way for taxpayers.
Like I said before there's often up road and tears from Private sectors when company pensions fail, expecting the Government to bail them out.
Not me. 😆
I think that asking to maintain something when the whole economy is going backwards is wrong. Where do you suggest the money comes from to maintain your pensions?
why does the public sector think it deserves greater rights, more sympathy and special treatment in the face of a global crisis?
I am not sure the public sector is actually saying this are you sure this is what they are protesting?
It has a pay deal just like all employees why is it unreasonable to expect your employer to honour it?
Nice add on.
Sorry, I'm always forgetting something and never know whether to edit of add another post. 😳
It's fine I do the same just happen to spot it. 😀
think that asking to maintain something when the whole economy is going backwards is wrong.
Like bankers bonuses for example why are the right wing press not camapaigning about this or tax evasion then?
Where do you suggest the money comes from to maintain your pensions?
it depends on the affodability of the pension scheme tbh.
Some are still self financing and dont have any projected shortfall.
generally working longer and less benefits [ ie you paid more as you worked longer].
To have to work longer, pay more and get less is a hard sell to any employee.
I would also look at the current people receiving the pensions as they are the one who have not paid enough to cover their pensions it seems odd to punish current workers for this tbh.
I'm fighting for something yes. I could get off my arse and look for something else but in the area I live there's nothing I can get to offer me the same pay without starting again from the bottom. I'm very fortunate in I earn a good wage, I'm as secure as can be but not 100%, I get good holidays and currently have a good pension scheme. However, to be doing this job when I'm well into my 60s for the same pension I would have earlier for paying more is not fair. It's as simple as that, not sure why people would expect us to take it on the chin because they chose a job without such perks.
This is where we differ.
"General strike..."
illegal.
Like bankers bonuses for example why are the right wing press not camapaigning about this or tax evasion then?
Clearly the banking sector needs control too, Emilio Botín is having a hard time at the moment, so maybe there's justice... As long as banks are seen as a necessary part of day to day life there should be a state run alternative.
That would probably put you on a par with all those in the private sector who have had wage freezes or decreases, whose workload has decreased because there are no customers and/or lost their jobs.
So we never had pay freezes or redundancies in the public sector in the past 🙄
It's an interesting concept but completely ignores the fact there are widely diverse areas of 'public sector'. Presumably you have only worked in one particular area? I have worked in a fairly wide range of private sector companies and would say there is little difference in the levels of useless ****tery in both camps.Sack the right 50% and I reckon you could still output the same amount and still knock off early on Friday....
Sacking the 50% who aren't any good/pulling their weight is a smashing idea - then all you hard working private sector guys can pay for the benefits so they really can do absolutely f... all 8)
So we never had pay freezes or redundancies in the public sector in the past
Did you strike then or MTFU and get on with it?
Another one who has been fooled by the propaganda.
The various pension schemes are affordable and sustainable. this is the fact. For example the NHS fund is in surplus - more is paid in that is paid out and this has been the case for years - however this surplus has been used as revenue by governments not invested.
Most pension schemes including the teachers have been revised to ensure their affordable and sustainability
This is simply apiece of political theatre managed to divert attention from the real issues - tha lack of private sector pensions, the tax avoidence and the behaviour of the bankers.
This is where we differ.
Which essential all that it's about. There's those that'll fight and those that'll go elsewhere and try to find something better. In your case Spain. May I ask where you plan to retire to are you staying in Spain or heading back here after not paying taxes for many years to the UK.
That's not meant in a nasty way by the way it's a genuine question.
It's an interesting concept but completely ignores the fact there are widely diverse areas of 'public sector'
Precisely we know they exist in our profession even but it's not anywhere near 50% of 1% never mind 50%.
Another one who has been fooled by the propaganda.
When are you going to learn that people who have different views to you are not fools? Just people with different views. One could throw it straight back at you. Until you start to talk like an adult, I simply can not take anything you say seriously.
Sack the right 50% and I reckon you could still output the same amount and still knock off early on Friday...
like the army or the police for example?
As DS notes all sectors have inefficiencies [ like your description better tbh] it is daft to think 50% of all public sector workers could be removed without anyone noticing. Bins , roads, doctors doubling class sizes etc.
personally ii have done work in both and I found [ generally] private sector workers in care to do less as they got paid less so would work less hard. if you pay me the minimum wage I will do the minimum for example.
May I ask where you plan to retire to are you staying in Spain or heading back here after not paying taxes for many years to the UK.
I'm taking advantage of either article 85 or 86, I can't remember which, that allows free movement of workers within the EU. Any tax and social security paid here will be transferred to the UK and when I arrive in the UK I'll be looking to set up a company there again taking advantage of the high labour costs in the UK with the possibility of 5-10 jobs in the future. I do plan to retire in Spain, it's too cold and wet in Blighty. Anything else?
May I ask where you plan to retire to are you staying in Spain or heading back here after not paying taxes for many years to the UK.
wont have paid enough NI but will get income based benefits
When are you going to learn that people who have different views to you are not fools?
i think he can say this on this issue tbh.
Loads of folk have ranted [ not you DS you have been your usual reasonable self 😉 ]about not wanting to pay, bailing folk out etc This it is not the case for teachers pensions for example - as is regonised by the audit office for example who actually said it was politically motivated.
it is like TINA - there is no alternative - to cuts when the reality is if we get lower growth [ we are and the projected growthkeeps getting lowered] we could actually spend less and and owe more [% GDP] than if we spend more and get greater growth.
That's fair dos DS, I respect anyone who was bold enough to do what you did and I can't blame for wanting to stay there when retired. As you say much better weather for aching bones.
personally ii have done work in both and I found [ generally] private sector workers in care to do less as they got paid less so would work less hard. if you pay me the minimum wage I will do the minimum for example.
But that's a consequence of taking things to the extreme, reduce the profit slightly and pay more or improve conditions and productivity will increase. I've worked in numerous environments and those that pay peanuts generally do get peanuts, they produce the crap that satisfies the demand for all those "Who is the cheapest supplier?" threads I see here. 😉
Pensions are deferred pay. The govt are seeking to cut that (deferred) pay while asking employees to contribute more of their pay to the pension, extending the period they have to work before they can have the pension.. oh, and that pension would be lower despite increased employee contributions. That is over and above the govt going back on the agreement made when people signed up to their pension, and the fact many pensions were 'reformed' (ha ha!) under the last govt.
I'm in the UCU and using their calculator i will be £77 a month worse off if the govt get their way (that's not going to be good for the economy). I'd also lose over £200,000 over the life of the scheme, reducing what i'd get when i retire (which i fully expect to be in 41 years time when i'm 70).
To recap:
Lower employer contributions
Higher employee contributions
Less pension
Working longer
Reneging on the agreement made
I'll be on the picket line on the 30th.
As you say much better weather for aching bones.
And the girls are prettier. 😈
It has to be said that there is respect for what you do too, I am not unaware of the sacrifices that you have made in your choice of work.
Have a good 'un. 😀