[Closed] Gear for winter walking in the Highlands?

If you want to keep things super cheap - keep your over trousers and get some - thermal leggings for underneath - fine if your doing day walks ..

Ron Hills and waterproof overtrousers should be okay
Can you loan some more trousers from your mates?

If your mate's are dragging you above the snowline, do they have the skills, know-how and equipment to get you down safely?
Munros in winter are to be taken very seriously

I used to do a fair bit of winter walking (never graduated or even aspired to the climbing bit). What worked for me was the old Rohan Striders - they were incredibly highly woven fleece type breeches with a really hard wearing outer layer - along the lines of even when wet they were wearable. Rarely had to break out the waterproof trousers..

slightly thicker Ron Hills and a decent pair of waterproof trousers should - should - be OK. If they start on the crampons and ice axe stuff, head back down would be my guidance though :/

My winter garb is power stretch tights with some windproof trousers over the top.

As for weather in Feb in Scotland, anything from +10 to -20 depending on what the weather is doing that day!

They all seem to know what they are doing as they do a lot of high level winter walking
It was the mention of ice axes and crampons that put the fear of God into me and led me to seek advice !
I will try and head for Golspie, Balblair and some natural riding and perhaps some lowlevel walking

It was the mention of ice axes and crampons that put the fear of God into me and led me to seek advice

Wise man. It's not difficult but it takes a bit of practice and you'll be a bit of a liability to start with.

They all seem to know what they are doing as they do a lot of high level winter walking
[b]It was the mention of ice axes and crampons that put the fear of God into me[/b] and led me to seek advice !
I will try and head for Golspie, Balblair and some natural riding and perhaps some lowlevel walking

If you don't know what you are doing then crampons can be a liability. Are your boots crampon compatible?

I wonder how many folk using an ice axe have practised an ice axe brake? Or even really know the basics.

I honestly think most folks out with ice axes in winter have practiced and understand how to use them. It's the ones without them you need to worry about!

Ice axe and crampons are good fun! If you do end up hiring/borrowing some and get the chance, get your mates to pick a good spot (not too steep, nice clear run-off at the bottom of the slope etc) to practice ice-axe arrests. Far more fun than going to the top of a hill IMHO. Just remember to keep your toes away from the snow surface... comedy gold watching new people getting that one wrong as long as it's on a nice safe slope they really cant injure themselves on!

Take lots of gloves/spare hat.

Won't they give you any advice?

Not being a smart arse, it's just that they'll know what they've got lined up for you better than strangers on the web.

Ice axe and crampons are great. Way better than slipping

All it will need is a mate to give tips and maybe let you practice an ice axe break and you'll be fine

Just be clear you want to go for a walk not a climb

maybe let you practice an ice axe break and you'll be fine

I'd change maybe to definitely there and insert the word 'repeatedly'.

If you've never done a winter Munro before, then for God's sake, get yourself a day's winter hillwalking training - use of crampons and axe, when not to use them, winter nav etc etc before even thinking about going out...
Have you any idea what a Scottish whiteout is like?
I mate of mine who's a winter ML likes to point out that the vast majority of falls in winter in the UK are people falling over their own feet in crampons...Scottish winter walking is a whole world away from regular walks in the Peaks. All kinds of risks and judgement that you've never had to deal with before...

...and just to cloud the issue further, our winter skills tutor spent ages teaching us a variety of ice axe arrests before pointing out that in a true arrest situation (i.e. steep slope and accelerating) there was a good chance it wouldn't work anyway, so better to know how to avoid one in the first place!

Soft shell trousers are great, I've got some TNF Apex ones and as much as I loath everything TNF they are great. To be honest some decent breathable over-trousers with Ron Hills will give you a versatile option.

As above get some practice in crampons under the supervision of a mate on steady ground, I one took a BIG (150ft) fall and subsequent helicopter trip in the Alps because I managed to attach my right foot to my left shin.

You'll love it, stay safe and enjoy!

in a true arrest situation (i.e. steep slope and accelerating) there was a good chance it wouldn't work anyway

I've only done it once in earnest on hard snow and it was terrifying how quickly I gathered speed. I got the axe in almost immediately and still slid for more than 50 feet.

What 13thFloor and Spin say, you're ****ed anyway if it goes teets up. They'll be daft to take you on anything serious. On any steep ground concentrate and walk with purpose, kick steps upwards and kick your heels in and keep your centre of mass over your feet on the downs. What you wear on your legs is fine, have an extra layer for your upper body. Good gloves (maybe 2 prs), extra socks (maybe 2 prs), balaclava, ski goggles maybe, headtorch, bit of extra food just in case. just make sure one of them can navigate in a white out and if/when it all gets a bit serious.

Taking an inexperienced person into the Munroes in winter sounds very irresponsible to me .I would suggest cutting your on easier stuff to start with and getting some training in winter kit use .

Whistle (and know the signal).
Torch (and know the signal).
Emergency shelter (one big enough to be used as a body bag).

And it's Munros folk. No "e" in Munros.

Taking an inexperienced person into the Munroes in winter sounds very irresponsible to me

Get some decent gaiters, too, otherwise snow packs down inside the tops of your boots once it's more than ankle deep and becomes very uncomfortable / cold. (Try to get ones with the wire that goes under your sole to stop them being pushed up by deep snow.)

Whatever trousers you wear in the Peaks should be OK while you're moving, but waterproof over-trousers are handy if you're stopped / weather turns nasty.

Going out with ice-axe & crampons is the only sensible way, even if you don't think you'll need them. It doesn't mean that you'll be doing ice climbing, but it does allow you to cross frozen snow & rime easily and safely. Without them, you'd be doing Bambi impressions.

I'm sure you can hire crampons & axes if you haven't got any (boots, too if you haven't got winter boots that will take crampons) - Glencoe, if not elsewhere.

If you're mates have got their heads screwed on you should have fun!

Edit: Get walking crampons, not the sexy climbing crampons (assuming you are walking) - they're lighter, so less tiring, and have the spikes pointed more downwards, making it easier to avoid spearing your own calf.

Warm kit.... decent base layers
Gloves
Hat
Good Socks
Gaters
Probably some thinker trousers
If you are going to use axe and crampons make sure they fit your boots and know how to fit them before you start.

Echo what the others have said, especially re the walking crampons. The only thing I'll add is it looks like the weather is looking likely for an arctic northerly blast heading into February. Nothing particularly unusual there but windchill plays a huge factor so please make sure you & your pals carry proper emergency shelters etc. you'll also find some fairly intense cornices and sheet ice on the tops.
Having said all that, winter hiking in the highlands can be the most spectacular anywhere, so enjoy!

I'd change maybe to definitely there and insert the word 'repeatedly'.

+1

It's one thing practising an planned arrest on a nice slope. Totally different when you have an unexpected slip on a 30 degree slope. I've never had a bad slip on worrying ground where I haven't been roped (ie where i'd 100% need to have arrested), but I often wonder how quickly I'd actually be able to bring myself to a stop if I needed to! Probably not as quickly as I think...

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned above, but it's worth sticking a pair of ski goggles in your bag. Can make a 2 hour walk into a 50 mph head wind/snow/rain/hail more bearable.

Dont be put off. Winter Walking in Scotland will provide you memories that will last a lifetime.

Get yourself and ice axe and crampons, plus a days practice before you go high.

I should imagine that if your mates are experienced then they are not going to be taking you over the Aonach Eagach. Basic mountain sense will see you through with more experienced members of the party. Pack more than you think you will need, and second torch, whistle and a good emergency shelter bag. A foil blanket will not cut it. Practice putting on and taking off crampons so your not faffing around. Having to take gloves off to sort out straps in -20 windchill is not a good idea.

Go and Enjoy. If you get lucky with the weather you will have a superb day.

On the trousers issue, the guys at Glenmore lodge when I was there were recommending wearing long john's/leggings (I guess Ron Hills would work), with ventable waterproofs over the top for the whole walk. Then you never need to stop and get cold faffing around trying to put waterproof trousers on, if the weather changes, and you free up some rucksack space.

Have a look on the Glenmore Lodge website for winter walking kit lists, it'll give you a decent idea of what to take.

Rohan Striders (and Super Striders) - blast from de past!

According to the website Striders are now trousers, not breeches.

I prefer Rohan from the eighties

[img] [/img]

LOL!
Anyone want a small Olfio and a Wild Vest of unknown size - probably adult small too?

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned above, but it's worth sticking a pair of ski goggles in your bag.

This may be a good pointer. If your mate and his group all turn up with axes, crampons and various other paraphanalia, but your mate hasn't sorted you out with jack, then bow out gracefully.

All this chatter about crampons and ice axes might be scaring the OP a bit TBH.

Quite possible to "do a few monroes" in the winter in a decent pair of boots and the right clothes, if you don't get too ambitious.

Sounds like his friends know what they're doing anyway.

Quite possible to "do a few monroes" in the winter in a decent pair of boots and the right clothes, if you don't get too ambitious.

It's a catch 22 though IMO. In order to know whether just boots and the right clothes are sufficient on a munro on any given day in winter, you would already expect to have a good deal of experience backing up that call.

I'd never head up anything in current conditions without at least an axe. But that's just me, I pass plenty of people who wouldn't look out of place on the cobbler in summer and most are still alive as far as I'm aware 🙂

Olfios were fab - I used to use one for biking many moons ago. I've got some of the new Striders, they are excellent walking pants in a very plain, understated, 'No big RAB or Marmot logos' type of way.

Thanks for all the advice. I have been lent some crampons and an ice axe and am being taken out for a practice if snow falls soon as predicted. I have also watched a dvd by the BMC!
What really worried me initially was the mate who twisted my arm is the sloppiest mtber known. He is better now but at one time every ride involved something dropping off his bike. However he is ultra prepared for these trips so I assumed (rightly) it could be dangerous. So I am actually looking forward to it now but the wife is still expecting a late night phonecall from a hospital!

I have been lent some crampons and an ice axe and am being taken out for a practice if snow falls soon as predicted.

Don't sweat it, it's easier than you think. You'll pick it up in no time. Walking in crampons on the right type of terrain is hugely satisfying!

I remember the first proper winter climb I ever did...4 pitches of grade III and 2 pitches of grade IV...as we were tying in at the start of the climb I asked "Erm, so how do I do this?", expecting an hours tuition from my mate. He just looked at me sheepishly and said "Ehhhhh, just try to do what I do". It's amazing how quickly we're able to pick things up when we've no choice 🙂

Waterproof outer clothing is dangerous in icy conditions as it will slide so easily if you happen to trip. Many have died on the long slide down to the rocks. In Scottish winter conditions you should be OK with dense cotton or anything else windproof and carry the waterproofs in case it rains.

You ought to carry at least an axe and have practiced using it to the point where it becomes automatic. Crampons are good for ice and hard-packed snow but a bit of a liability for a novice while descending as they can trip you up. As a novice you probably shouldn't be going anywhere crampons are needed, TBH.

Waterproof outer clothing is dangerous in icy conditions as it will slide so easily if you happen to trip. Many have died on the long slide down to the rocks.

Wearing cotton won't slow you enough to stop you dying on a long slide with a sudden stop. Not slipping in the first place and knowing how to use an ice axe are the things to place your faith in.

[quote=globalti ]Waterproof outer clothing is dangerous in icy conditions as it will slide so easily if you happen to trip. Many have died on the long slide down to the rocks. In Scottish winter conditions you should be OK with dense cotton or anything else windproof and carry the waterproofs in case it rains. I'll just pop up to Glenmore Lodge and tell the instructors they're doing it all wrong 🙄

There's some bullshit appears on this forum but that's a new high water mark.

I tend to go with Ron Hill tracksters with thermal leggings underneath and have never had any problems in all sorts of horrific weather. I also carry goretex waterproof trousers but have only used them once or twice, mostly in very windy cold weather but generally not when it's raining. Roubaix cycling tights also work as a base layer (obviously without a pad). Cheap boil-in-the-bag waterproof trousers are also useful for when you encounter a large bum-sliding slope (if you're sure it won't pose any avalance danger that is!).

Don't be put off by the scare stories. There are a lot of Munros that are very straightforward in winter and shouldn't pose any problems as long as you're fit, can navigate and have some common sense.

Just published
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/page.php?id=7018

I'll just pop up to Glenmore Lodge and tell the instructors they're doing it all wrong
There's some bullshit appears on this forum but that's a new high water mark.

There's some rudeness appears on this forum but that's a new high water mark. I'm just telling you what I've learned from fifty years of trogging, ski touring and climbing around Scotland, Wales, the Lakes and the Alps in summer and winter, including at Glenmore Lodge and other winter courses, snowholing, camping, backpacking across Knoydart, Haute Route, day tours and all the rest.

Slippery nylon clothing is a bad idea on snow and ice.

I dug my winter gear out a couple of weekends ago for a great day in the Lakes, but hadnt been out for a couple of years due to injury. Experienced walker (not climber) but had a watch of the Glenmore Lodge videos on [url=

for a piece of mind reminder. Worth a look. Agree with all the above though that practice arrests etc are very important. Watching a video isnt enough.

OP - go and see how conditions are when you get there and what the others are thinking of doing. Use your personal judgment and if you are not happy dont do it. However, dont be afraid to push yourself a bit. I took p20 out a couple of years ago on borrowed kit and now he owns all the stuff and loved it. Any sensible winter group should also ALWAYS know when to turn back, that is the first rule. Agree with the goggle suggestion - a load of walkers were turning back the other weekend just because they couldn't see in the spin drift.

How slippy your clothing is also depends on the snow conditions
You don't slide very far in powder

I'm just telling you what I've learned from fifty years of trogging, ski touring and climbing around Scotland

Scotroutes might be rude but despite all that experience you're still wrong if you think clothes will make a difference in a potentially fatal slide.

Don't be put off by the scare stories. There are a lot of Munros that are very straightforward in winter and shouldn't pose any problems as long as you're fit, can navigate and have some common sense.

I meant to post something along those lines a while back but got distracted by disagreeing with people. 🙂

Yes it can be a harsh environment but there are plenty of munros that are really straightforward.

Well aside from the usual bickering there is some good info on here.

Where you are going will make a huge difference to what you need. A little bimble up Ben Chonzie is very different to a traverse of the Cuillin!

I'll stay out of the fabric discussion, as long as you have a thermal layer and a windproof layer you should be OK.

Instead of crampons use these: [url= http://www.yeomansoutdoors.co.uk/footwear.aspx/snow-grips/black/yaktrax/pro-snow-grips-medium/20234300002?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=google_merchant_centre&gclid=cmdaxpu0t8mcfvdhtaodbg8aow#.VMk3O9KsUdo ]Yaktrax[/url] If you are going anywhere where these are out of their depth, then it's probable you are out of your depth. They won't work on steep ice, but then you shouldn't really be on that on your first day anyway. To put it into context, I've been on the Munros pretty much every weekend in the snow and I've not put crampons on yet this year. You also won't trip over them. They tend to be sneered at by proper mountaineers, but they are genuinely brilliant. They'll also fit on your usual boots.

By all means take an axe and practice using it, but don't leash it to yourself. If you fall, you'll probably drop it and the leash just means it'll flail around your head as you fall. If you are falling and let go of your axe the further away you are from 3 pointy bits the better!

As other have said, spare hats, gloves and head torch. Also worth taking a hot lunch in a food flask - frozen sandwiches are rubbish. If you use a camelback, then blow the water back after drinking - it will freeze in the tube.

Hope that helps!

Skiing At Glencoe this week, I had 4 thin thermal layers, a fleecy jumper, paclight duvet jacket and a windproof on top. Trousers were running type not unlike cycling longs with windproofs on top.

it was just right for the stop start aspect of skiing. If walking I could reduce some of them, but they would come with me for stopping as I get cold quick.

Yep, Head Torch and real sleeping bag with waterproof plastic bag, spare gloves etc. Hot flask.