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Maybe it knows the local tides of course......
Perfectly valid opinion, and CO2 footprint of posting said opinion has been offset by the lack of flights 😛
Google is on point tonight - now getting adverts for Twin Otter 400s
Perfectly valid opinion, and co2 footprint of posting said opinion has been offset by the lack of flights
Which is all perfect cover for when we reveal it's the work of the militant remainers
Google is on point tonight – now getting adverts for Twin Otter 400s
A lot of love for the Twotter! Not as cool as a Skyshedvan or an Islander, but still a very cool plane!
so if perimeter is 10k long, you could stand 200 troops* at 50m intervals to cover the whole of it. Shirley they will get a better idea of where it's taking off and landing etc.
* or more, probably not got much else to do 😜
but then it just won’t take off until the troops head off for Christmas
@rene59 Yeah, let's go back to the dark ages , travel everywhere by the power of the wind or our legs and die of starvation.
JP
Yeah, let’s go back to the dark ages , travel everywhere by the power of the wind or our legs and die of starvation.
Don't be ridiculous, we fly way too much. Are you saying that destroying the world and ourselves with climate change is a price worth paying so we can fly to Spain 4 times a year?
It's a question of whether or not you believe the consequences the scientists talk about. If you do, then what are you willing to do about it? If nothing personally then what will you support others doing about it? Campaigning peacefully trying to get the law changed but being ignored time after time? Taking action through your wallet and not buying goods or services from offending companies? Supporting illegal direct action to enforce change?
Given that in the UK alone there are 36,000 deaths a year put down to air pollution, at what point does direct action become self defence?
Its Christmas so another sequel to the "Die Hard" movies ?
Did somebody say you can buy rocket propelled explosive charges from somewhere??!!
I've got it. Anti-Christmas activists. Surely a cause worth supporting?
Fireworks, not RPGs.
Meh! Elf and safety gone mad..
@rene59 couldn't agree more. If this is the work of 'ecoloons' and they are taking planes out of the sky in a non violent manner then I think its amazing. Just think what a great nights sleep those on the flightpaths are getting tonight! I mean the example alk the media are giving of the kid who can't fly to Lapland for the day ....just take a minute to think that one through and its not so clear who is in the wrong here
To everyone saying about shooting it out of the sky, it isn’t going to happen. There is no way a sniper is going to be in the right place at the right time and get a safe shot off - they’re virtually impossible to hit given their size, speed and ability to move in any direction. I know of trials of multiple GPMGs set up in an AD role unable to hit a relatively static drone...it was laughable. A shotgun probably gives the best chance of any firearm but then again it’s being in the right place, right time and the drone to be low enough. Best bet is to attack it via the control channels, or by targeting the GPS (jamming/spoofing/meaconing) though each of these has their own technical challenges dependent on the drone - ie parrot can be attacked differently to DJI.
Good luck to whoever’s in charge of sorting this; quite glad it’s not my responsibility!
I dunno why people assume that everyone on a plane is doing something purposeless. I just got back from work in Amsterdam and it appeared as usual to be mostly full of people returning from work or people visiting family.
What was it you were doing that couldn't have been done remotely eg online/via Skype or by someone already in Amsterdam?
parrot can be hacked really really easily (or certainly used to be the case)
they're an open wifi, so log in and kill the main process and it plummets. or just flood wifi deauth packets. then it's up to the software on board to decide whether to land or fly home, cos the guy controlling it will never have control.
dji mavic, spark, etc. - dunno - do they use wifi for the link?
hobby drones, dji naza etc. all use RC 2.4GHz channel. you could get 150 local RC flying guys all on the airfield flying together, and still not exceed the limits of the RF channel. the planes/drones would drop out the sky by accidental airborne collisions before the digital control causes link drops and loss of control of any aircraft.
It's a good week if you've developed or invested in a company that makes expensive anti-drone product...or if you want to discredit a recently-created provocative environmental lobby that seemed to spring from nowhere.
What have our Russian cousins been up to recently?
Planes flying again, but for how long?
Hopefully long enough for my flight from Barbados to be diverted back to Gatwick instead of going to Birmingham.
11 hours late departing, luckily was able to were the day by the cruise ship pool still on my all inclusive deal 😀
It's ok Lolz Truss is on it
https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1075853834134712320?s=19
Is this all nonsense?
1) There's no image of the drone clear enough to identify it, in spite of a constant bunch of plane spotters at the end of the runway with expensive telephoto lenses, plus all the trapped passengers who have nothing better to do than photograph drones. (Many of whom must have expensive cameras in their bags.)
2) I used to live near the perimeter of Gatwick. It's pretty densely populated. The areas that aren't packed with people must be crawling with police and MOD. So several hours into the incident why aren't people seeing it land?
I suspect that some kids flew a drone once or twice and the rest is total fabrication/cautious aviation industry/media/mass hysteria/governmentglad to deflect attention from bad news stories.
There's a lot of fields around Gatwick - you could easily fly a drone a 1000m to get it there, doesn't need to take off from the perimeter fence.
There's a lot of approach routes that aren't publicly visible - so drones may only be seen by workers?
Will we have a load of Gatwick Drone Truthers in the future arguing the deep state was responsible as an attempt to show what a hard Brexit will be like?
Lots of green around the airport...
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Are you saying that destroying the world and ourselves with climate change is a price worth paying so we can fly to Spain 4 times a year?
I think Spain is one of the most underrated countries in Europe. Get away from the Costas and its amazing. I'd love to go 4 times a year.
I think Spain is one of the most underrated countries in Europe.
Me me too but it won’t be once climate change has done it’s worst.
It does seem all a bit overkill, last report I heard was '50 sightings', really? I man really? how many folk around and at what times, could've been up for less than 30 seconds a couple of times, and folks seeing it for lots of different areas.
My colleague reckons it is the Gov stress testing for a no deal on 29th March. Personally, I think it's a trainee reindeer who's gotten a bit lost.
There’s a lot of fields around Gatwick – you could easily fly a drone a 1000m to get it there, doesn’t need to take off from the perimeter fence.
There’s a lot of approach routes that aren’t publicly visible – so drones may only be seen by workers?
Lots of green around the airport…
Nah, there's are public roads all the way around the peremiter. There are tons of buildings. It's not Derbyshire, there will people dog walkers all over those fields even where there's no footpath.
But yes, I'm sure about 9am yesterday a drone could fly in and out without someone getting a good photo or without being spotted landing. However, by 2pm yesterday the whole area would have been crawling with people, amateur and professional.
convert
Subscriber
I’m not sure that Barra is really the best example of an airfield you could use hereIt’s the only one I’m daft enough to fly a drone near! 🙂
However, I’m not sure the software could tell the difference – a no fly zone is a no fly zone from what I can tell.
The no-fly zones set by DJI are available online. https://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-map
Strangely there is not a blanket ban around licenced aerodromes, even if they were only active during licenced hours - many small aerodromes operate only limited hours on a licenced basis. Most of the no-fly zones are the huge airports or prisons...
Bearing in mind there were apparently sightings during the night I wonder what has changed this morning that they can reopen with confidence. And are the flying public just glad its over or nervous of an issue?
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Bearing in mind there were apparently sightings during the night I wonder what has changed this morning that they can reopen with confidence. And are the flying public just glad its over or nervous of an issue?
Harder to spot/confirm at night so you could be getting false alarms or using lights you can make a small drone look a lot bigger? Day time you have a better line of sight and chance of seeing things coming?
Bearing in mind there were apparently sightings during the night I wonder what has changed this morning that they can reopen with confidence.
Perhaps overnight they chased up all the 'sightings' and found there were actually no credible sightings after 10am or somesuch.
The whole thing is a farce if you ask me. This could have been dealt with very quickly and effective, but as with everything too much red tape/ risk assement etc. Just have to listen to the chief of police response. I just glad I'm not flying anywhere.
Midnighthour, you may well be right, but I suspect it’s more a case of ‘how long are we going to allow our infrastructure to be paralysed by a threat that’s still going to be there, even if we find the current perpetrators’.
The problem hasn’t been solved, any more sightings will ensure that the airport shuts again, until......well, until we get really fed up with it again.
I really wouldn’t want to be the person making these decisions.
Of course, it could have been carried out just as effectively with no drones at all, simply some people willing to say they'd seen one.
I was going to volunteer my services to fly one of our drones and follow it. See where it lands. Not hard.
Why some search and rescue bods haven't done this is beyond me. We practice following our drones all the time.
However I'm on the way up to Glasgow to film various rock bands so will be the other end.
This could have been dealt with very quickly and effective
Fancy telling us how, or are you keeping it on a need to know basis?
Why some search and rescue bods haven’t done this is beyond me. We practice following our drones all the time.
Because its a big old area to cover and therefore you would need a ton of drones and have one in the right place and fully charged.
Its not like it was just doing laps of the place continuously but appearing and disappearing.
My guess would be they feel confident the person flying it will be weighing up the fun of continuing vs chances of being caught which will be increasing as the cops get more resources and toys to play with.
Because its a big old area to cover and therefore you would need a ton of drones and have one in the right place and fully charged.
Not sure you do. It's on the ground most of the time. I'm pretty sure there are enough people about the airport and surrounding roads to indicate which way the drone leaves after each individual flight. [1] (Even down to people with Binos on the ground in the Control Tower.) So once it's left the area positioning a drone or two to trace it on it's next entry would be easy. [2]
If they didn't get a drone to follow it it's more like because they did have a suitable drone handy.
Or even more likely than that, after an initial flight or two there was no drone and most of the day was spent chasing nothing. It's an argument from silence, but seems most plausible to me.
[1] Which might not be the same way each time, of course.
[2] Unless someone's collecting it an launching from somewhere else every flight, which STW has already (probably rightly) discounted.
Well, this has all been very exciting, and almost as disruptive as your average French air traffic controllers strike 😉
Least the targeting marketing is working !! Never seen so many ads for drones 🙂
everyone saying 'it's easy' seems to assume it's a single drone under operator control. Have they read any of this thread or the other coverage?
to recap:
1) Multiple drones
2) prepositioned on roofs of buildings, tops of lorries, in the middle of fields
3) pre-programmed flightpaths
4) timers/SMS to trigger them to take off
No operators, no 'follow back to base'.
send up a drone every 90 minutes and you've shut an international airport down for for 36 hours and it's cost you a grand.
I’m pretty sure there are enough people about the airport and surrounding roads to indicate which way the drone leaves after each individual flight
They will now hence why I suspect they reckon its finished since they would be throwing more and more people and resources at it. Its typical farmland round there though with lots of hedges so you could have it pop up and then drop down out of sight and follow the hedgeline to change its location.
Personally if it was me I would have set up several locations base locations to have its entry and exit points randomised as much as possible.
If they didn’t get a drone to follow it it’s more like because they did have a suitable drone handy.
Amongst other things they had a helicopter but, unsurprisingly, apparently when that was hanging around the drone didnt come out to play or, at night, was to hard to follow.
Never seen so many ads for drones
Easyjet were advertising drones on their boarding cards.
Depends outofbreath, you can have the right gear and have enough manpower, but if the situational awareness, ability to act quickly on intelligence and training isn't there it may as well all be useless.
This is a 25 minute flight time for a custom, non geo-fenced, drone to get to Gatwick, hover over the runway for 5 minutes or so and then fly off to another location and land in a field within the red and blue circles and be picked up.
It's a massive area.
Good thread here:
"This could have been dealt with very quickly and effective, but as with everything too much red tape/ risk assement etc. "
lol
It’s a massive area.
That's a good illustration of the problem. As pointed out above, all you have to do is fly the drone quickly across the airport two or three times a day, using different departure and arrival points. Once it has been spotted, everything grinds to a halt, and the perpetrators can drive to a new location and sit and wait for a few hours before repeating the exercise. Minimum effort, maximum disruption, very difficult to track or attack the drone if it is only popping in from random directions for minutes a few times a day.
I think the organised and sustained nature of the incident shows specific intent and it is unlikely to be a clown who opened their Christmas present early and is just doing it for "giggles". I think any casual miscreant would have realised they were in massive trouble pretty quickly and stopped a long time ago.
As pointed out above, all you have to do is fly the drone quickly across the airport two or three times a day, using different departure and arrival points. Once it has been spotted, everything grinds to a halt, and the perpetrators can drive to a new location and sit and wait for a few hours before repeating the exercise.
But this wasn't two or three times. We're told it was multiple times over the whole day. And yet nobody got a decent photograph (in spite of gazillions of Plane spotters who loiter around Gatwick), and these guys manage to launch and recover a drone over and over again in daylight on a weekday from different points without anyone seeing them in the most over populated corner of the country. Even after the massive publicity.
I'd favour the 'disposable drone' scenario, except none have been found.
I'm still thinking one or two incursions early in the day leading to rumours and false sightings maintaining the panic. The original perps stopped as soon as they realized the fuss they caused.
It's an argument from silence and could be wrong, but on balance it seems most likely to me.
There is a video on the BBC site that appears to show something in the air. Not the most conclusive video though.
#tookthemlongenough
#shouldhavegotthwarmy/navy/rafinvolvedsooner
#whensthenextdroneincident?
Shoot it down! Shoot it down! 😀
Having read a bit more about it, it does sound like the authorities' hands are tied; more so by their own general incompetence and headless chicken routine.
So what they need to do, right, is get 6 Chinooks flying in at high altitude with a big net, then gradually lower it over the 25-mile radius and see what's underneath it. It worked for the BFG, apparently.
why wasnt there a sniper in the right place at the right time, why didnt the guy up in scotland fly his drone down to gatwick and follow the offending drone, who didnt replace the toilet roll when it ran out???
Stuff like this is good for showing up the credibility of the usual reactionary nutcases.
"Should have been dealt with sooner" while providing either no suggestion or a stupid one helps to identify the people you don't want in charge of anything.
Love Amber Rudd's barking dogs statement. You can see about halfway through her brain catches up and goes "hang on, that doesn't sound right", but she's too far in and just has to power on through...
Surely that barking dog comment was more in relation to prisons and was more about alerting guards to the drone's presence as against making the drone run away frightened though?
I'm no fan of the conservatives, but [The comment I saw doing the rounds on facebook] appears to be taken out of context.
If the way the UK and US conduct air strikes and drone warfare in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Afghanistan is legal, ethical and effective, shouldn't we be addressing the problem at Gatwick in the same way?
Gatwick yesterday
If the way the UK and US conduct air strikes and drone warfare in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Afghanistan is legal, ethical and effective, shouldn’t we be addressing the problem at Gatwick in the same way?
🙂
Unfortunately people in Surrey vote, and also write in to the Daily Mail...
However, is Sussex where Gatwick is....
LGW shutdown again
https://twitter.com/999London/status/1076165408099577856
Bloody hell...
Looks like EasyJet have already started diverting some of their Gatwick arrivals to Luton, at least there's a few heading in that direction.
Just watched the first plane take off on the resumed flights on Flightradar24
But this wasn’t two or three times. We’re told it was multiple times over the whole day.
I’m still thinking one or two incursions early in the day...
However, is Sussex where Gatwick is….
Good spot! 😀
I do wonder if it happened in any other country would there have been as much incompetence.
Ah yes the voice of reason is back 😉 worked out what they should be doing there yet?
Yes mike you are to supply tea and biscuits to the committee. Then when they catch the person you are to be their appointed pa.
Mikewsmith the fourms own guy that you take to work just to make him feel like their doing something important.
Yeah, let’s go back to the dark ages , travel everywhere by the power of the wind or our legs and die of starvation.
Don’t be ridiculous, we fly way too much. Are you saying that destroying the world and ourselves with climate change is a price worth paying so we can fly to Spain 4 times a year?
A number of the cancelled flights were cheap DAY trips to see Santa in Lapland. Of course, due to rising global temperatures there's no snow at all there at the moment.
We need protecting from ourselves, things like day trips to Lapland are an environmental abomination.
So still no good plan then? Just another Internet old man shouting at the sky.
Mikewsmith to every topic created in the forum.