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Genuinely – I’m surprised we’ve not yet to drones used as a swarm weapon to bring down a commercial aircraft.
You can have the drone, I’ll have the gun.
There was an assassination attempt somewhere recently using a drone loaded with explosives wasn't there? - Edit - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-45073385
A few moments ago a news reported was commenting on the number of people building up in the airport as people were arriving with flights not going out. Effectively the drone operators are carraling a large number of people into a relatively small space; an attack on the non-secure side of the airport could be devastating.
Hopefully they'll catch the plonkers doing this (apparently they could face up to 5 years in prison).
I'm waiting for Craig Murray's searingly hot take on this before commenting any further.
#tinfoilhat #falseflag #psyops #deepstate
Well that exactly how surface to air and air to air missiles work. They don’t aim to hit an aircraft, they explode in close proximity and the shrapnel causes the damage that brings the aircraft down, so in a way the shrapnel is acting like a drone swarm.
Bit of a stretch that. A guided to target, high velocity, highly concentrated, shaped charge of shrapnel is a long way from a group of drones hovering around hoping to get in the way of something
I smell the shady hand of Heathrow behind all of this ....
I smell the shady hand of Heathrow behind all of this ….
Is that the kid's name from the judo thread?
or Vijay, soon to be deported King of Duty Free
10er on this being Russia trying out a new hybrid warfare technique.
Airline source tells BBC that flights to and from Gatwick Airport are currently cancelled until at least 7pm
Blimey. I bet every other major airport is reviewing it's processes for this - as will national governments, this is strategic level transport infrastructure being disrupted.
Again, the engine is designed to withstand such an event safely, but if it happened to both engines, then you’re in trouble.
Don't bigger planes have a propeller which is deployed from underneath, If i remember correctly its called the RAT and will allow 500 miles of flight.
The RAT provides emergency electrics and hydraulics, not engine power. It’s really just designed to help get the engines started again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine
according to Wiki it gets you power for systems not propulsion, so I'll let the pilots of STW comment further but it would get you control systems in the event of engine loss to try and do something about it
edit - like he just did
Blimey Singletrack, I know you need to monetise the shit out of every thing but advertising drones to potential terrorists?
Blimey. I bet every other major airport is reviewing it’s processes for this – as will national governments, this is strategic level transport infrastructure being disrupted.
What *do* you do about it? Fly another drone into it? Drop a net on it from a helicopter? Sniper with rubber bullet? Trained eagle? EMP? Kamikaze volunteer?
I want to know what Jeremy Corbyn’s doing about this? Obviously what’s needed is some effective opposition.
Jam the 2.4 or 5ghz radio frequencies or locally jam the GPS (this takes some serious hardware).
If it's Russian military gear, then that might be harder. I would have thought they'd have brought that gear in by now, which makes me suspect that it's a state player ****ing with us. Could be wrong, it's just a hunch.
What *do* you do about it?
A question keeping a lot of people awake I'd think.
there's all sorts of movement tracking tech available from ground based lazer/projectile weapons to other drones - issue is deploying it in and around built up areas. And knowign when and where to use it.
or locally jam the GPS
Can't really do that at an airport as Planes use it for navigation....
Can’t really do that at an airport as Planes use it for navigation….
Are any aircraft still in pattern?
Easy enough to setup an airspace perimeter.
Jam the place for 24 hours, flood the entire area with coppers, don't let anyone in or out and search everything and everyone.
I want to know what Jeremy Corbyn’s doing about this? Obviously what’s needed is some effective opposition.
Well, Andy MacDonald, Shadow Transport Secretary issued a statement that the government should introduce a drone exclusion zone around airports.
Someone needs to introduce him to The World Wide Interwebz.... https://www.caa.co.uk/consumers/unmanned-aircraft-and-drones/
Armed police are there now with what looks like shotguns to shoot the drones down with....................
The RAT provides emergency electrics and hydraulics, not engine power. It’s really just designed to help get the engines started again
My bad, thought it was a back up engine. Did I miss the bit why the wont shoot them down? I get its something to do with stray bullets, but what to do with stray bullets? Surely if they missed the bullet would continue on its course and when it loses its battle against gravity it would fall to the floor?
or locally jam the GPS (this takes some serious hardware).
Really? I know that a few Italian ports used to do this in the 90's. The GPS would show all zeros once you were within a few miles.
Really? I know that a few Italian ports used to do this in the 90’s. The GPS would show all zeros once you were within a few miles.
My understanding was that even commercial GPS had become harder to jam - but I'm not a signals engineer so have no idea really!
Theresa will keen to pin it on the Ruskies so that she can wrap herself in the flag and galvanise parliament to support her deal in the face of this unprecented attack from a hostile state.
My bad, thought it was a back up engine. Did I miss the bit why the wont shoot them down? I get its something to do with stray bullets, but what to do with stray bullets?
Depends where you and the drone are, if you are too far away then the angles mean a stray bullet could go any number of bad places.
To be fair, if she did - I don't think the accusation would be out of the realms of possibility....this is a state that has used chemical weapons against a NATO state, ****ed with the heads of the US Cuban diplomatic teams using directed energy weapons and subverted democratic elections in the US and UK.
Russia is a bigger threat to the UK than ISIS.
My BIL is an officer on a T45 destroyer based in Portsmouth, it's the air defence specialist one , I've been in the control room where they track all aircraft coming into UK airspace they've even got a hotline to Maybot to check if they are allowed to shoot down hijacked jets.
He's staying over Xmas so will be giving him a grilling on this
I want to know what Jeremy Corbyn’s doing about this?
I have just seen a video clip where he is mouthing "stupid f'ing drones" but the tories are claiming he is a racist as he said "stupid foreign drones"
Actually, there's an idea - you could probably use that T45 to fry the ****ing things. 😀
My understanding was that even commercial GPS had become harder to jam – but I’m not a signals engineer so have no idea really!
What is "commercial GPS"? There is no such thing. Unless you mean paid for differential correction signals, then that's extremely easy to jam.
any number of bad places.
Crawley?
What is “commercial GPS”? There is no such thing. Unless you mean paid for differential correction signals, then that’s extremely easy to jam.
As in, not the military signal.
Crawley?
Well I laughed.
It's probably some spaced-out teenagers flying it from their bedroom in Creepy Crawley.
Military now called in
From the Guardians newsfeed
there have even been experiments training hawks and eagles to take out drones
Now that I'd like to see!
thread from someone who knows what they're talking about;
https://twitter.com/NGrossman81/status/1075765784885018624
there's even a book:
https://www.amazon.com/Drones-Terrorism-Asymmetric-Warfare-Security/dp/1784538302
In warzones, ordinary commercially-available drones are used for extraordinary reconnaissance and information gathering. They can also be used for bombings – a drone carrying an explosive charge can be a powerful weapon. At the same time asymmetric warfare has become the norm – with large states increasingly fighting marginal terrorist groups in the Middle East and elsewhere. Here, Nicholas Grossman shows how we are entering the age of the drone terrorist - groups such as Hezbollah are already using them in the Middle East. Grossman will analyze the ways in which the United States, Israel and other advanced militaries use aerial drones and ground-based robots to fight non-state actors (e.g. ISIS, al Qaeda, the Iraqi and Afghan insurgencies, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.) and how these groups, as well as individual terrorists, are utilizing less advanced commercially-available drones to fight powerful state opponents.
Robotics has huge implications for the future of security, terrorism and international relations and this is essential reading on the subject of terrorism and drone warfare.
Well, no deal Brexit is going to work out well isn't it!
he bullet would continue on its course and when it loses its battle against gravity it would fall to the floor?
Not so, lots of folk are killed by falling bullets as people celebrate by shooting into the air. As far back as WWI machine guns were used in indirect fire mode, firing into the air so taht bulets would rain down on enemy positions.
Nazi drones? My god, what will they think of next?
So what new laws have they rushed through parliament today whilst we have all been looking at Gatwick?
I know... #cynic
Drone killer (decals on side show how many)
No deal preparations ramped up and now this. Surely not a coincidence?
The technology to deal with rogue drones has been around for a long time - it is called a 12 gauge shotgun.
Even in the hands of a half-cut stockbroker wearing tweed they can bring down game birds - so a drone shouldn't be a problem.
Drones can climb to height and out of the effective range of bird shot a bit faster than grouse....so unless many people have a Punt Gun lying around I think they'd be fairly useless.
I've still got my money on those not happy about the emergency runway being used to increase capacity. If it were someone with the aim of causing maximum disruption to the country they'd of targeted Heathrow. I think it's aimed directly at the airport.
BBC News was showing a laser technology designed to overheat a done's battery causing it to ignite, but apparently it's some pretty advanced technology; they were also suggesting that the Gatwick drones might be flying pre-programmed routes to avoid the possibility of having their radio control jammed. I'm pretty sure that I saw something way back about birds of prey being trained to bring down small drones.
Maybe Heathrow is already 'protected' so they picked #2. Of course they could've chosen Manchester but seeing as the government and national airline don't seem to GAFF about Manchester then it has been overlooked. They could've picked Leeds Bradford too but it's too windy to fly owt up there.
BBC News was showing a laser technology designed to overheat a done’s battery causing it to ignite, but apparently it’s some pretty advanced technology; they were also suggesting that the Gatwick drones might be flying pre-programmed routes to avoid the possibility of having their radio control jammed. I’m pretty sure that I saw something way back about birds of prey being trained to bring down small drones.
Still open to jamming unless they are using an inertial navigation system, which correct me if I'm wrong - is relatively rare outside of the military or industrial spec drones.
Still open to jamming
Problem comes with what else you jam with that signal really.
I don't want to seem too jivehoneyjive about this, but in an era when every occurrence in the world is all over social media in seconds, has anyone seen any footage of any drones anywhere near Gatwick posted anywhere?
Lots of "reports of" drone sightings but a surprising lack of evidence of any actual drone sightings.
Makes you think...
I don’t want to seem too jivehoneyjive about this, but in an era when every occurrence in the world is all over social media in seconds, has anyone seen any footage of any drones anywhere near Gatwick posted anywhere?
They're the modern Yeti/Bigfoot/big cat/ghosts
I don’t want to seem too jivehoneyjive about this, but in an era when every occurrence in the world is all over social media in seconds, has anyone seen any footage of any drones anywhere near Gatwick posted anywhere?
Lots of “reports of” drone sightings but a surprising lack of evidence of any actual drone sightings.
Makes you think…
There is video footage of it.
Not so, lots of folk are killed by falling bullets as people celebrate by shooting into the air.
It was quite unnerving to step off the train into a crowd of people doing just that at the end of the 1983 Tunisian bread riots as a 12 year old 🙂
Still open to jamming unless they are using an inertial navigation system, which correct me if I’m wrong – is relatively rare outside of the military or industrial spec drones.
I don’t think it’s particularly difficult to program in waypoints in a circuit in any reasonably fancy drone. They effectively fly autonomously anyway, the ‘pilot’ is actually only telling the flight computer what he’s like the drone to do, and the computer does all the actual piloting. If signal is lost they almost all ‘return to home’; it would be simple to change that to ‘if signal lost; circuit around waypoints’. What’s disappointing/impressive is that with the fairly limited battery life, the authorities haven’t managed to find a base of operation yet; this strikes me as organised and nefarious, rather than a dickhead ‘hobbyist’ (although actually that’s unfair to hobbyists, who are usually a fairly responsible bunch).
Surely if its flying a pre programmed route then the down wash from a copter will throw it in the ground really quickly? Or get the police in a chopper and shotgun it from side on . Bird shot falling from the sky is pretty harmles , like hailstones as thay have little mass.
Must be a way to use a jammer along the lines of a RDF to find the transmit point , unless drone freqs are used for other things.( unless it will fly a pre prog route with zero input )
Use another drone to hit the rogue drone out the sky? They race drones so the PS generation must be able to rock up in short order annd play catch me if you can , then offer rewards for smashed to bits naughty drones . This travel disruption is costing someone many thousands of ££ so a £500 per naughty drone bounty seems good value
So do we reckon
Putin?
Crazy kids, screwing around?
Islamists?
Yellow vest morons?
Climate change protestors?
Twitter now reporting that BA's systems have gone down at Heathrow - IT failure.
If someone does this on the day we no deal Brexit, we are screwed.
Jesus, just how vulnerable is our national infrastructure?
Morons almost certainly, axe to grind against Gatwick, sounds likely, I assume with the number of key words this thread now contains the security services are kicking themselves they have not thought of all these drone stopping techniques....
As for BA at Heathrow and IT, massive number of flight cancellations and re routes going on at the moment, lots of people will be getting sent through LHR instead, BA actually sell a lot of connecting flight options (well try and sell) of into LHR out of LGW so every chance it could be the extra load causing them the problems or something getting into a nasty loop on it's own rather than something sinister
Jesus, just how vulnerable is our national infrastructure?
Probably on par with most countries, there is some interesting reading about the US automated voting booths and that tech, along with some of the hacking attempts on that.
Out of interest, don't they test plane engines by firing frozen turkeys at them, so surely a drone would cause little damage to the engine?
Also trying to aim a drone at plane can't be easy? How quick are drones
Just gone past the runway on the train. No sign of drones, lasers, shotgun totting toffs, eagles or Ruskies.
Out of interest, don’t they test plane engines by firing frozen turkeys at them, so surely a drone would cause little damage to the engine?
Also trying to aim a drone at plane can’t be easy? How quick are drones
A mate of mine in the US does this to F-35 engines!
So do we reckon
Putin?
Crazy kids, screwing around?
Islamists?
Yellow vest morons?
Climate change protestors?
This is fishier than that fermented swedish canned fish imho
In order...
Climate change protestors (or those that got arrested airside recently under a law that the media mis-represented as a terrorism law, but isn't)
Domestic authorities making evidence to speed up authoritarian laws
Russkies
Norks
It ain't someone doing it for a laugh or wicked footage for their sick edit
1:45 for drone vs wing
Anyhow, you don't need to actually be trying to hit an aircraft. Just pissing around inside the perimeter achieves all their needs.
Heh, flighttracker24 shows a few ground vehicles at Gatwick - one "leader7" has done a complete perimeter check.
Twitter now reporting that BA’s systems have gone down at Heathrow – IT failure.
Yip. I’m in the T5 lounge and the airport is carnage. Huge delays on every flight. Computers down.
Huge delays on every flight. Computers down.
Putin opened his Christmas presents early?
BoardinBob
Yip. I’m in the T5 lounge and the airport is carnage. Huge delays on every flight. Computers down.
Dude, think you need to change your username 🙁
Out of interest, don’t they test plane engines by firing frozen turkeys at them
Was covered back on page 1. They're not frozen. That'd just smash the fan and all the compressor stages to ****.
Very serious operators indeed imo.
Sincerely hope the Heathrow issues are a coincidence.
Dude, think you need to change your username 🙁
😂
At least an hours delay on 99% of flights😭
Jesus, just how vulnerable is our national infrastructure?
Considering how long people have been talking about the potential danger to aircraft from drones and inconsiderate hobbyists (let alone well organised/determined terrorists) it's amazing just how unprepared and vulnerable a major national airport is (similarly lots of talk and hot air around preventing drone flown contraband entering prisons but very little actually done about it).
for the list of likely suspects, is it too far fetched to suggest Gatwick or such like being "held to ransom" -- ?
Seems someone has been working on a set of solutions for a while.
Take a look at ECS (@ECS31): https://twitter.com/ECS31?s=09
Approaching Christmas. Airport held to ransom...
