You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
As the Stoic Epictetus said ‘If you wish to be good, first believe that you are bad’, and ‘If anyone tells you that a certain person speaks ill of you, do not make excuses about what is said of you but answer “He was ignorant of my other faults, else he would not have mentioned these alone”’.
All the above American comedians follow that maxim. The UK equivalent are a bunch of virtue signalling tossers.
I don't know who the **** Stoic Epictetus is but I can't say that I'm impressed with his material based on that quote. I am guessing that he didn't go for snappy one liners?
And I can't comment on all the other American comedians but I will agree that the UK's most famous living right-wing comedian, Jim Davidson, is not a virtue signalling tosser, for sure.
He is in fact a well-known wife-beating homophobic racist who likes to joke about people with disabilities, tosser.
There is no doubt that Jim Davidson's career has nosedived in recent decades but I am not sure that the BBC, which gave him some big breaks early in his career, are to blame for that.
I suspect that it has more to do with the good taste of today's British multicultural audiences.
I am not sure that the BBC, which gave him some big breaks early in his career, are to blame for that.
Well played!
Or, as Geoff Norcott put it, “if you’re clapping instead of laughing then it isn’t comedy”
a) that's bollox, plenty of comedy is worthy of applause, whether it's political or not
b) and ironically Geoff norcott is a comedian who also tries to score political points, and also isn't that funny or insightful imho
Some more proof this morning that boat-based refugees are parasites who contribute nothing to society.
https://mobile.twitter.com/VBPStories/status/1635030520710193155
Jim Davidson’s career has nosedived in recent decades but I am not sure that the BBC, which gave him some big breaks early in his career, are to blame for that.
Chapeau sir!
When the average Daily Mail reader reads that the BBC is biased their minds immediately turn to Mock the Week, HIGNFY, Nish Kumar and Frankie F***ing Boyle and they say “look how biased against the conservatives the BBC is”
Then they're thinned skinned snowflakes then, aren't they? Unless this is another strawman to deflect from the fact that right-wing comedy isn't really funny to a lot of people. Have a watch of this from Jim Davidson on the Lineker story if you want a view from the 'other side' (to over-simplify things greatly):
b) and ironically Geoff norcott is a comedian who also tries to score political points, and also isn’t that funny or insightful imho
Who, not coincidentally, gets a lot of work from the BBC.
Gary Lineker is to return to presenting sport on the BBC after he was taken off air over his tweets criticising the government's migration policy, Sky Sports News understands.
It is understood the corporation will apologise to the Match Of The Day presenter.
Pity the snowflakes who'll get their knickers all bunched up over this.....
which gave him some big breaks early in his career
I can't shake off the earworm this gave me. Damn you. [ goes off whistling ]
Hope Lineker does return. Was thinking this morning... what happens if a BBC presenter tweets in favour of a government policy, with a comparison that's too glowing? The problem isn't political statements made away from BBC broadcasts and content... the problem is criticising government policy and rhetoric... it's not about trying to appear impartial, it's about not calling out the government... and people see that, whether they agreed with Lineker's tweet or not.
Siri, show me what 'complete capitulation' looks like...
https://mobile.twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1635215786099744769
^^ 👍
Gotta be honest, I'm somewhat astonished that a) he hasn't already been headhunted by somewhere like Sky and b) he hasn't told the BBC to get knotted.
Gotta be honest, I’m somewhat astonished that a) he hasn’t already been headhunted by somewhere like Sky and b) he hasn’t told the BBC to get knotted.
There were rumours that ITV had throw silly money at him, but I'm not sure what he'd present on that channel, plus, this was never about money.
I suspect he knows he has a big platform on the BBC and that, irrelevant of money, it's the biggest gig going.
I also suspect he quite enjoys the backlash that comes with him being on the BBC and having certain views.
So a climb-down after a tweet from a personal account, highlighting a Govt policy that will (most likely) turn out to be illegal and unenforceable, results in suspension that then turns into days & days of coverage about the over-riding issues faced by people trying to reach the UK, the approach taken by the Govt, accusations of Tory bias at the BBC - including breakdowns of who's lent/donated what, with the end result that the person in question is reinstated and an apology issued.
Henceforth known as the 'Lineker Effect'.
Glad they've backed down as this was a ludicrous situation, but in my view this isn't over whilst Sharp is still chairman of the Beeb.
^^ lol at that tweet from cougar.
Why can right wingers never seem to spell correctly?
I mean, I suspect why, but I'm not going to post it.😁
Fat,white, bald & illiterate
Oi! I'm a leftie and I resemble that remark, well not the itilertrae bit.....
Glad they’ve backed down as this was a ludicrous situation, but in my view this isn’t over whilst Sharp is still chairman of the Beeb.
I don't understand how Sharp can survive as BBC Chairman if he had any input into the decision to suspend Lineker. Likewise Tim Davie. It's an epic lack of judgement from whoever took the BBC in this humiliating direction.
Hmmm, BBC website says that GL has agreed to abide by guidance while independent review takes place.
Our Media Correspondent David Sillito has been speaking to BBC Director General Tim Davie. We'll have more from that interview in a moment but here's a breaking line.
Davie says: “Gary has agreed to abide by the guidance whilst the independent review takes place."
We're yet to have Lineker himself confirm this but he's tweeting a thread out right now.
By who, and when?
Well, lets see how "independent" the review really is, independent reviews are often just a way of getting the result wanted by those commissioning the review.
And lets be honest, what is needed now is not a review into the BBC's social media policy, but into its political independence.
Too many posts to quote so I'll resort to bullet points.
1) Lineker was a superb striker whose career left me with some golden - where were you when ? - memories. He's also (imho) a superb broadcaster and I'm really glad that he's back.
2) Economic v Asylum migrants. Can't say that I make a distinction between someone who is fleeing death from war and persecution and someone who is fleeing death from lack of sanitation, lack of food or is just simply seeking the opportunity to live with dignity in a world of plenty.
3) Right wing comedians. I've seen Northcott on QT trying to be funny with lines about "NHS - the religion", it just doesn't really work. I think satire only works if you're perched on the moral high ground. Hard to claim that if your outlook is that healthcare depends upon your ability to pay. They're also huge virtue signallers in their own way, just look at Davidson and his poppy fetishism and armed forces charity stuff.
Fat,white, bald & illiterate
Coincidentally, that was my recent Starbuck's order.
Well, lets see how “independent” the review really is, independent reviews are often just a way of getting the result wanted by those commissioning the review.
Or kicking the can down the road so people forget about it. And conveniently saving you from having to talk about the issue in the meantime because you don't want to interfere with the review.
Doesn't really matter who takes charge of the review, there's simply no way they can police the opinions of everyone. It's fundamentally nonsensical to try.
“Because it is extremely hard to find someone who is right-wing and also funny.”
Tell yourself that if you like, I suggest you go and watch some Dave Chapelle, Chris Rock, Bill Burr or Bill Maher videos to see how you can be funny without wearing your political credentials on your wings.
So you think it isn’t a problem that all the news presenters are right wing and all the comedians lefties? You can’t see that the conflation of news and views can lead to misinformation and confusion?
As the Stoic Epictetus said ‘If you wish to be good, first believe that you are bad’, and ‘If anyone tells you that a certain person speaks ill of you, do not make excuses about what is said of you but answer “He was ignorant of my other faults, else he would not have mentioned these alone”’.
All the above American comedians follow that maxim. The UK equivalent are a bunch of virtue signalling tossers.
Or, as Geoff Norcott put it, “if you’re clapping instead of laughing then it isn’t comedy”
I’m glad you said that, I was beginning to think it’s just me. Actually, all of my friends too who are into comedy now I come to think of it. Whenever we watch comedy it’s usually older stuff or the Americans you mentioned. Modern UK panel shows are the absolute worst. Cringeworthy. Last time I went out to see live comedy a few years ago too it was so bad I felt like asking for my money back. Never really thought of it as a left wing/right wing thing, but makes sense with all the insufferable virtue signalling. I prefer comedy to be apolitical. Unless it’s sending it up. Rik from The Young Ones had the angry, hectoring, hypocritical left winger down to a tee 😆. And of course Alan Partridge for the other side of the coin. Genius.
I’m glad you said that, I was beginning to think it’s just me
Have you listened to Radio 1 recently? The music doesn't sound like music either, you can't even make out the words to the songs. Call that singing?
Times change, people get older. The youngsters are different to you. Repeat ad nauseam.
Fat,white, bald & illiterate
Coincidentally, that was my recent Starbuck’s
orderbarista.
Re the right and left wing comedians. It's a stretch to remember, being as it was over 13 years ago but I'm pretty sure comedians gave the, then Labour government a hard time.
(As to labour being left wing or centrist then is another arguement).
Mocking the incumbent government as a part of a comedy act, as far as I remember has been the norm forever.
Yeah I get your point. But no, I never listen to R1. I mainly stick to internet stations that specialise in (very modern) micro niches of house and techno.
Nor sure about your point about age though. A lot of these comedians on panel shows are older than me so it’s not about ‘the kids’ is it?
I’ve no idea what kind of comedy youngsters like tbh. I don’t know any. I can’t imagine it’s Mock The Week though…
Gotta be honest, I’m somewhat astonished that a) he hasn’t already been headhunted by somewhere like Sky and b) he hasn’t told the BBC to get knotted.
b) He doesn't NEED the money... unbelievable as it may be perhaps the principal is more important to him.
a) Who's to say he hasn't? ^^ see above ^^
Re the right and left wing comedians. It’s a stretch to remember, being as it was over 13 years ago but I’m pretty sure comedians gave the, then Labour government a hard time.
Totally. And there was plenty stick given to Corbyn. Also Starmer gets flack, especially from Frankie Boyle (where we started on this tangent). Its just a convenient, ill thought out trope to beat the "woke", "lefty" BBC with
They may well have backed down to defend Sharp as he'd lose in any brinkmanship. The Tories won't want to lose their placeman.
Why would Linksy leave? Bit of football, bit of golf, stacks of cash!
They may well have backed down to defend Sharp as he’d lose in any brinkmanship. The Tories won’t want to lose their placeman
Indeed. He was put there to ensure favourable news coverage at the next general election, not get bogged down in arguments with ex-footballers
Backing down will also help fuel gammon rage too, so mission accomplished as far as the governments placeman is concerned
The Daily Mail can carry on peddling the myth that the BBC is run by communists and everything that’s wrong with the country is the fault of a ‘woke’ lefty liberal elite
The Jim Davidson posts kind of illustrate my point. I raise the issue of BBC comedy being too lefty and the only alternative the STW massive can come up with is that piece of S***?
And the clip posted has nothing to do with comedy [not that the man himself has ever been funny], it's a political rant on a fake news channel, [kind of how the DM readers view BBC comedy.....ironically...]
You may not rate stoic Epictetus Ernie, but his words have been in print for a couple of thousand years, [which is nearly as long as yours will be].
If the quote was a bit long, I'll paraphrase it; 'The key to being a good comedian is self depreciation, not self appreciation.'
Maybe he appreciated his own self-deprecation.
You may not rate stoic Epictetus Ernie, but his words have been in print for a couple of thousand years,
Nothing was in print two thousand years ago but irrespective of that the fact that according to you American comedians alledgedly 'follow his maxim' is irrelevant, it doesn't make US comedy funnier or more entertaining or somehow more acceptable.
You might dismiss Jim Davidson as a good example of a right-wing comedian, presumably because you recognise that he is an arsehole, but he is in fact an excellent example - he is a very high profile comedian who has had considerable past success and is very vocal of his support of right-wing causes and Margret Thatcher.
There isn't exactly a huge amount of right-wing comedians to choose from, after all being a mean-spirited sexist, homophobic, racist, isn't particularly funny, so why not use the most obvious example?
‘The key to being a good comedian is self depreciation, not self appreciation.’
If we're back to Frankie Boyle... he goes in hard on himself... so fits this description as well as any comic I can think of. He doesn't spare anyone... especially not Frankie Boyle.
Mark Dolan was quite funny when he hosted Balls of Steel back in the day.
I didn't realise he is an absolute cockwomble until a tweet appeared, regarding Gary L, showing him presenting on GB News.
Admittedly I had to use google to work out where I knew him from, as I hadn't seen him since that show.
In reply to old Epictetus, i'd say the key to being a good comedian is just being funny.
Totally. And there was plenty stick given to Corbyn.
Quite, mock the week became the right wing medias main weapon for getting their message across to a wider audience as they featured it every week without fail, and HIGNFY brought boris to the screen rather too regularly, without him being featured so prominently he may never have achieved the affable "intelligent pretending to a be a fool" image to allow his ascent to power.
Nah... mock the week hit everyone hard... Miliband, Cameron, May, Corbyn, Johnson, Starmer...
It's not about choosing right wing comedians to balance out the left wing comedians in my view, it's about choosing comedians who are funny.
I remember when the Brexit party was launched, a sad affair at the end of a pier in a jaded seaside town, knotted hankies and Union Jack umbrellas in the accompanying drizzle. It was like a scene from a Carry On film or a Martin Parr photograph, absolutely ripe for taking the piss.
As Frankie Boyle duly did on his show a couple of days later. He invited three other comedians on the show to tear the fiasco to pieces for the full half hour.
Which was exactly what Nigel Farage wanted to happen.
The Jim Davidson posts kind of illustrate my point. I raise the issue of BBC comedy being too lefty and the only alternative the STW massive can come up with is that piece of S***?
The problem here is that the post a page or two back listing examples of right-wing comedians is pretty much a definitive list (just add Lee Hurst). This isn't a BBC issue, rather that if you were compiling a list of defining right-wing characteristics then "a sense of humour" likely wouldn't be the first thing you'd reach for.
In any case, whatever your political leanings or moral compass it can often be insightful to consider who you're aligning with. For instance, if you find yourself thinking "that Donald Trump, he had some good ideas," then have a sideways look at his supporters; would you think "yup, these are my people"?
If you're championing right-wing comics then you can't really just hand-wave the existence of acts like Bernard Manning. He might be further down the road, but it's the same road and it's one we're currently being coralled down.
Dug out a Frankie Boyle quote (from a BBC performance)...
"I'm so old and disgusting, I have a body like a dropped lasagne..."
[ left off the rest of it... because although it gets more self depreciating, it also goes decidedly post watershed ]
I'd only ever heard Geoff Norcott on The News Quiz, so I've just watched some of his stand up.
He comes across as an appalling individual tbh, especially when talking about women.
His joke about asking your Mrs if you can go cycling was quite good though.
Lineker's tweets today.
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1635220916019040256?s=20
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1635222269172781056?s=20
Those last two tweets, on the plight of refugees and description of most of the people of the UK... moved me.
"There isn’t exactly a huge amount of right-wing comedians to choose from, after all being a mean-spirited sexist, homophobic, racist, isn’t particularly funny, so why not use the most obvious example?"
"If you’re championing right-wing comics then you can’t really just hand-wave the existence of acts like Bernard Manning."
And now Bernard Manning puts in an appearance from beyond the grave!... Honestly....
The only ones championing right wing comics are yourself and Ernie.
Just because I don't find lefty comedy funny doesn't mean I find right wing [non] comedy funny. I find funny comedians funny.
You do realise that with much of the comedy of the last 20 / 30 years the only black faces you saw on your screens were white people in blackface? Gina Yashere felt completely frozen out when she appeared on Mock the Week so left for America where she became very successful. Both Mo Gilligan and Lenny Henry did documentaries about this and cited the BBC comedy department and shows like Mock the Week in particular as the worst culprits.
The take that I got from watching Mo and Lenny's documentaries was that the BBC's comedy output of the last couple of decades has been run by and presented by virtue signalling idiots who achieve exactly the opposite of what they hope to achieve,
And now Bernard Manning puts in an appearance from beyond the grave!… Honestly….
You do realise that with much of the comedy of the last 20 / 30 years the only black faces you saw on your screens were white people in blackface?
Dunno, you appear to be posting some time around 1976 which would certainly put Manning into contention, I'm almost 40 years old and have no memory of ever seeing blackface.
Those last two tweets, on the plight of refugees and description of most of the people of the UK… moved me.
Me too. That is class
By way, I quoted Geoff Norcott because I thought his quote was aposite, not that I find him particularly funny.
He is an interesting case in point though. In effect he is an experiment, where that the BBC acknowledged there comedy was too one dimensional so went out looking for different sorts of comics.
And they found Geoff Norcott.... Hardly surprising really because the job of commissioning comedy has been pretty easy over recent years, Go and watch Cambridge footlights and go and get sloshed in Edinburgh one a year. The commissioners had no idea where to look.
One of Lenny and Mo's points was that had those commissioners gone down to the Hackney Empire or Oxford Playhouse then they would have seen massive audiences consistently turning up to watch black comedians, [pulling much bigger numbers than the Comedy Stores and the like] yet those comedians never got a look in at the BBC.
So personally, if I were a commissioner looking to recruit some non leftie commedians I would have gone down that route rather than the Geoff Norcott route.
Those last two tweets, on the plight of refugees and description of most of the people of the UK… moved me.
And me - a very dignified "not letting it go"
I suggest the OP trademarks the thread title for when Lineker wants it for his autobiography.
"I’m almost 40 years old and have no memory of ever seeing blackface.'
Ali G
League of Gentlemen
Little Britain
Mighty Boosh
David Baddiel
Lee Francis ???
Maybe you've been kicked in the head by a horse?
EDIT:
Or perhaps you thought all those characters were black people representing themselves? An easy mistake to make I'll admit and a mistake the BBC [and others] have been making for decades.
Those last two tweets, on the plight of refugees and description of most of the people of the UK… moved me.
The reason that ministers are so scared of him is partly because he is a eloquent and thoughtful communicator.
“I’m almost 40 years old and have no memory of ever seeing blackface.’
Ali G
League of Gentlemen
Little Britain
Mighty Boosh
David Baddiel
Lee Francis ???Maybe you’ve been kicked in the head by a horse?
Ali G??
Just think about how much of our comedy is news related and the paradigm that that sets up.
I watch Kirsty Wark on Newsnight and I don't believe her so I turn over to HIGNFY where Ian Hislop will give us the real story.
It's not healthy is it...
Ali G blackface? My god I’ve read some ****ing dumb tripe written on here. Ever heard the word ‘wigger’?
I wasn't a fan of LoG but am passingly aware of it (jeez, i sound like a high court judge!)
Is Papa Lazarou considered blackface? I thought he was a clown gone demonic in the circus or something?
It’s not healthy is it…
Hislop speaking truth to power is very healthy, even if you don’t agree with him.
"Hislop speaking truth to power is very healthy, even if you don’t agree with him."
Would it not be better if the presenters of news programmes held truth to power so that comedians didn't have to?
The only ones championing right wing comics are yourself and Ernie.
And there was me thinking that I was being a bit mean to Jim Davidson.
The only ones championing right wing comics are yourself and Ernie.
I've no idea where you've got that from. I wasn't championing anything. Rather I was suggesting that there aren't many right-wing comedians on the BBC (outside of Question Time😁) because relatively speaking there aren't many right-wing comedians. Possibly because jokes about darkies have mostly fallen out of favour in recent years. Though at the rate we're going it wouldn't surprise me if there's a resurgence soon.
If you think I was championing right-wing anything I can only assume you've had your browser set to write-only for the last decade.
Is Papa Lazarou considered blackface? I thought he was a clown gone demonic in the circus or something?
I always assumed it was parodying blackface. Ie, Papa Lazarou is a nasty horrible bastard and his choice of make-up is just one more way in which he's a nasty horrible bastard.
Hislop is a journalist
He usually describes himself as a "satirist", which is halfway between the two I suppose?
This thread has gone a bit Private Eye - 'From the Message Boards'. Nazi's, the government, wokeist liberal-elite.
Great work guys, Bogbrush.
"Ali G blackface? My god I’ve read some * dumb tripe written on here. Ever heard the word ‘wigger’?"
Many of the people who he interviewed took him as black because he presented himself as such, so we can assume that many people viewing took him as such as well.
Just because you [and I] were hip to his schtick doesn't mean that the rest of the audience was.
I'm pretty sure Sacha Baron Cohen has acknowledged this himself.
I'm honestly not trying to gaslight you but if you were to canvas the opinions of a few non white people I reckon you'll find a few who don't think my point is * dumb tripe.
Interesting that various posters ignoring the other examples I gave, preferring to contend one example in order to dismiss the others perhaps?
Well when your first example is so dumb…
Edit. Tbh, Ali G is the only one I found funny and watched. The rest I’m not familiar with so not qualified to comment.
Cougar, I was joking.
"And there was me thinking that I was being a bit mean to Jim Davidson.'
You can't be too mean to Jim Davidson.
"Well when your first example is so dumb…"
What about the other examples then?
I’m not familiar with the others inkster.
For those that think the thread has gone off track, remember that GL, a sports presenter, was punished for holding truth to power perhaps in part because the news department fails to do so.
"Edit. Tbh, Ali G is the only one I found funny and watched. The rest I’m not familiar with so not qualified to comment."
But you did anyhow!
Cougar, I was joking.
Were you using Stoic Epictetus's maxim?
I also missed the hilarity.
For those that think the thread has gone off track, remember that GL, a sports presenter, was punished for holding truth to power perhaps in part because the news department fails to do so.
@jambourgie is active on the thread - off course it's off track. The ill-informed troll be trolling hard on this one
"This thread has gone a bit Private Eye"
Hislop would be delighted!