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DrJ
Why was it necessary to say that, and to use the expression “one off” in any context whatsoever?
Hey, don't stone me just yet. I deleted the message a matter of seconds after posting it because I think you are likely entirely right and my assertion was wrong.
I'm fine with saying I'm wrong, even on STW.😉
GL only twittered what most of us have been thinking for a long time. It's totally unacceptible how immigrants are treated. A hotel near us still had some/or does now. They had to come in and out via the rear entrance - we were there for a funeral wake. but 'camps', then chucking a stack of cash at it to the ruddy French, whilst slashing active travel/train budgets.. FFS. It's madness that even the two doing this certainly have heritage else where and made a success - Rishi and his missus espeially - why stop others if they have a contribution to make. We're seriously short of employees here.
but ‘camps’, then chucking a stack of cash at it to the ruddy French, whilst slashing active travel/train budgets..
The Mail were gushing over Rishi's "victory" over the French on this very issue 2 days back.😐
I suspect the French will take this kind of "winning" all day, every day for half a billion a pop!😂 The UK (England anyway) is a bloody joke internationally now.
The BBC wants to change the terms of his contract, and is sacking him if he doesn’t (now) sign up to more restrictive conditions, that don’t seem to apply to the likes of Sugar, Clarkson, not to mention their own management
If they terminate his contract he’ll be able to take them to the ****ing cleaners, because legally they haven’t got a leg to stand on
I’m sure their lawyers are presently informing them of this uncomfortable fact 😂
see geebeebees are trying to confuse their followers
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1634286645598998548?cxt=HHwWqMC-wfPCk64tAAAA
Be great if instead of taking the knee all the premiership players put on cardboard Gary Lineker face masks and clapped to show their support before kick off.
Well I see MOTD is not going to have any presenters or pundits so presumably they'll just show the match(es). Be fun if the commentators also withdraw their services.
Or their commentary could just be: “player in red kicks ball to player in red…”
Now I am just waiting for Chris Kamara to work out what the hell is going on.
Unbelievable Geoff!
I've read the BBC rules linked earlier up the thread. As far as I can tell, the impartiality bit applies to news and current affairs presenters.
So I've asked the BBC to clarify exactly what rules he's supposedly conflicting with as part of my complaint.
Be great if instead of taking the knee all the premiership players put on cardboard Gary Lineker face masks and clapped to show their support before kick off.
Something to show support for refugees would be better, or at least to echo the disapproval of this government policy.
The Bbc hierarchy has no doubt had a look at his contract and discovered that he is not bound by the same terms as someone in the newsroom. I'm guessing head of sport agreed with this, hence the statement backing him yesterday, but the Tory appointees have since had another call from Suella or Rishi and are desperately backpedalling to try to please their masters.
The current beeb is in an awful state, the government doesn't need to scrap the license fee to trash it, they've found a better way.
the trouble with the BBC is when it's under pressure they tend to circle the wagons so it's difficult to spot the tory stooges from the corperation loyalists.
Roger Bolton, former BBC executive and presenter of Radio 4's Feedback programme, says the situation regarding Gary Lineker's position on Match of the Day is "a total mess", but the BBC was right in its decision to stand Lineker down.
Speaking on the BBC News Channel, Bolton says: "It's a total mess but I think in the end the BBC is right. Impartiality is desperately important, the impression of impartiality is desperately important, and if you do have a presenter talking not at great length, but on Twitter, about a matter of real controversy where the country's divided, then it does matter."
He says he thinks the BBC "should have resolved the matter much earlier by ensuring that [Lineker's] contract said he shouldn't tweet about such things... but in the end the BBC has taken, in my view, the right decision."
Asked whether Lineker should be held to the same impartiality standards as BBC employees like news presenters, Bolton responds by saying that Lineker is the most highly-paid presenter on the BBC, "and for many people he is the face of the BBC, and I think he has to acknowledge that."
"He also has the responsibility not to bring the BBC into disrepute or get it involved in controversy," he adds.
Feedback tends to be the Beeb is god and does no wrong.
Hmmm big problem is that BBC are being painted as the bad guys here. All this "cancelling my DD" is kind of playing into the govt hands.
I can see them using this situation to their advantage.
That all escalated quickly. From 'Stop the boats' to 'MOTD boycott' Shows the thirst for news in the digital age.
Next question for me would be 'why should I be forced to pay a licence fee?' I don't see how the BBC can ever be fully impartial.
As for GL, much credit to him, although he could walk into Sky/ITV tomorrow and get paid more.
but ‘camps’, then chucking a stack of cash at it to the ruddy French,
Its no "camps, but then..." its "camps and then..." The money is in the main for the creation of a detention camp. A detention camp on the French coast for foriegn people "we" don't accept in our country. Have a think about that for a minute.
BBC confirm that tomorrow's MOTD will go ahead without presenters or pundits.
Tories are clever, they know they have to 'blow this up'. Lineker posts anti Gov stuff daily, has done for years.
They've decided, (as the chap on QT pointed out) that 'stop the boats' is the new 'get Brexit done'. They know it's divisive and it plays to the sector of their audience that were threatening to drift back to UKIP.
You can tell it's a strategy decision, make EVERYTHING about the 'small boats'. It's nothing to do with Lineker, it's a co-ordinated media strategy that we're all being fed by the shovel.
Like others above I feel that this just going to open up a massive amount of pain for everyone involved. I'm not a football fan at all but this will definitely open up a massive can of worms, expect all sorts of inventive chants at games and maybe some protests on the pitch too. Really surreal to be witnessing this happening in the UK but here we are.
BBC public service broadcaster or state broadcaster?
We're watching the moment it morphs from one to the other.
I do find it ironic that in reacting to criticism of them acting like Germany in the 1930’s, they react like the Germans would have done in the 1930’s
If it wasn't so worrying it would be funny. Sadly it's very, very real.
To be fair to Lord Sugar, he resigned from the Labour party and no longer took the Labour whip when Corbyn became leader.
if he went to ITV he could confidently say
he hated Cruella Braverman on a “cellular level”, and added: “At night, I'm unable to sleep as I lie there, grinding my teeth and dreaming of the day when she is made to parade naked through the streets of every town in Britain while the crowds chant 'Shame!
with no repercussions ?
To be fair to Lord Sugar, he resigned from the Labour party and no longer took the Labour whip when Corbyn became leader.
Sugar was busy slagging Corbyn off at the last GE, whilst appearing on the Apprentice. But that's OK because it supported the government.
The external activities and public comments, for example on social media, of staff, presenters and others who contribute to our output can also affect perceptions of the BBC’s impartiality. Consequently, this section should be read in conjunction with Section 15: Conflicts of Interest.
Did you read the whole document? I did. Section 15.3.13 specifically seems to accept that "The risk is lower where an individual is expressing views publicly on an unrelated area, for example, a sports or science presenter expressing views on politics or the arts." Whilst the introduction to the section on impartiality states: "Due impartiality usually involves more than a simple matter of ‘balance’ between opposing viewpoints. We must be inclusive, considering the broad perspective and ensuring that the existence of a range of views is appropriately reflected. It does not require absolute neutrality on every issue or detachment from fundamental democratic principles, such as the right to vote, freedom of expression and the rule of law..." and it continues "We must always scrutinise arguments, question consensus and hold power to account with consistency and due impartiality." and then that section concludes: "Audiences expect artists, writers and entertainers to have freedom to explore subjects from one perspective and to create content that reflects their own distinctive voice. It must be clear to audiences where personal views are being expressed." Are you honestly suggesting that Gary's Twitter followers thought this was a BBC position rather than his own opinion?
they also making a rod for their own back, every tweet, facebook post etc from all staff will be scrutinized past, present and future.
To be fair to Lord Sugar, he resigned from the Labour party and no longer took the Labour whip when Corbyn became leader.
How is that relevant to the fact that Alan Sugar is allowed by the BBC to express his political opinions and yet Gary Lineker isn't?
Or are you responding to a particular point which I have missed?
ITN this evening has certainly focused on the apparent double standards by the BBC concerning the political freedom it gave Alan Sugar.
Robert peston seems to think he's not even under the BBC's guidelines...
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1634272812180426760?s=20
I think the penny is now starting to drop that they are ***ing with 2 national institutions here.
MOTD is an institution. But they think that Gary Lineker is just a presenter. He isn’t. Football is a religion in this country (whether you like that or not) and Lineker is one of this countries greatest exponents. He’s an icon. With very good reason.
I posted this photo before, but I’ll post it again, because this was a historic moment where someone showed their inherent decency and empathy, as well as leadership.
We love him for his present opinions and actions, but we really love him for this…
They really have picked the wrong fight this time
Even one of my very right wing ex football hooligan old 'freinds' who describes himself as slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan has deleted his negative statement about Gary Lineker. Which surprised me.
That may read like I'm an ex football hooligan. Hopefully not.
Yes curiously BBC never censured sugar for this
Whilst the MPs attacking linekar have second jobs as talk show hosts on GBNews taltk etc
Add to the money donated to the tories and funnelled to Johnson by the DG...
Hypocrisy is breathtaking
Robert peston seems to think he’s not even under the BBC’s guidelines…
And he’d be right. He is not employed by the BBC. He is a freelancer. There is nothing in his contract about expressing his opinions on social media.
They now want to change his contract to include these new rules they just made up at the behest of the Tory party
He’s rightfully telling them to **** off
https://twitter.com/LallyLangford/status/1634279868606173194?s=20
Only skipped through the last few pages but thought this on Sky was pretty good.
Well said that man 👏
BBC confirm that tomorrow’s MOTD will go ahead without presenters or pundits.
I rather have that to save time. Just show me the goals. Well, I do on Youtube almost immediately after the match.
How is that relevant to the fact that Alan Sugar is allowed by the BBC to express his political opinions and yet Gary Lineker isn’t?
Seems obvious enough. Sugar has the right political views where Lineker doesnt.
As such it makes sense only to silence Lineker.
^^ That guy on the sky vid above really does illustrate the huge hypocrisy overy Linaker.
The BBC has basically been taken over by a silent (mostly) and slow, malignant coup carried out by the Tories and cheered on by the likes of the Mail.
Sugar has the right political views where Lineker doesnt.
It isn't even that though, Ian Hislop is editor of Private Eye, a highly political and campaigning publication, and David Mitchell sometimes writes a comment piece for the Guardian newspaper I believe.
Those are two that I can think of off the top of my head no doubt there are more. I don't understand why the BBC have got themselves in such a mess over Lineker.
Not sure if this has been linked but here’s the BBC in 2018 saying that he can say what he likes.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46566574
I don’t understand why the BBC have got themselves in such a mess over Lineker.
I agree, I think the only difference to Hislop etc is the concerted campaign by both ministers and the right wing press to make an example of Lineker.
The tories are out to define the next GE as being all about immigration and little else for obvious reasons. A last desperate act to remain in power with not a regard to any harm caused to the country.
They really are lower than rats.
I thought that was likely Kimbers.
Another problem could be that the BBC could find themselves in breech of contract and in conflict with The Premier League.
They really haven't thought this through have they.
I don’t understand why the BBC have got themselves in such a mess over Lineker.
Because he’s really got under the skin of what passes for a government nowadays, and their recently appointed lackeys now run the BBC
They really are lower than rats vermin. 😉
lower than a snakes belly actually.
cancel culture snowflakes
Sugar was busy slagging Corbyn off at the last GE, whilst appearing on the Apprentice. But that’s OK because it supported the government.
And eight months earlier he was calling for Boris Johnson to be jailed, frankly he is all over the place, I think he might be related to someone on here.
there was a tweet from GL "Bin Corbyn" in 2017 I don't remember him being dragged over the coals and stern talking too about his responsibility to impartiality
Newsnight covered the topic [barely] tonight and couldn't wait to get the segment over with. You could almost hear the director screaming "wrap it up, wrap it up" into the presenters earpiece.
Russia Today could hardly have done a better job..
With a bit of luck the ITV rugby commentary team will strike in sympathy tomorrow.
colp's link basically exonerates Lineker from any wrongdoing, the BBC have essentially given him permission publicly to air his views as long as it's done in a personal capacity.
This has the potential to completely destroy the network of allies the govt have placed in the BBC thinking they can control it. Be interesting to see the way the papers report it over the weekend.
When the BBC back down and offer an apology the right wing grifters and press are going to implode with rage, can’t wait.
When the BBC back down and offer an apology the right wing grifters and press are going to implode with rage, can’t wait.
The cycle goes on and on and on ...
In this instance the brand isn't actually the BBC, it's the Premier League. The BBC is merely the host broadcaster.
This has been covered earlier when others have pointed out that GL is not an employee of the BBC but is in effect, subcontracted but it would be interesting to see how the PL react to all this. They've been quiet so far but they must be absolutely fuming that the highlights will be shown without punditry and perhaps even more significantly, without commentary. If the commentators withdraw their labour then it silences those who say they hate the punditry and would rather just watch the football.
And then the questions will start about MOTD2 24 hours later... Still, I'm sure the crowds will chip in with their own commentary but the sound engineer could be busy with the mute button.
I agree, I think the only difference to Hislop etc is the concerted campaign by both ministers and the right wing press to make an example of Lineker.
Hislop can kick back to an extent he probably knows where all the skeletons are buried.
Still, I’m sure the crowds will chip in with their own commentary but the sound engineer could be busy with the mute button
Yep… there’s going to some interesting chants this weekend 😂
This is a nothing but a cyincal yet effective media strategy to regain control over the narrative, pivoting it away from systemic problems in which the Tories are utterly hopeless and inept, either through their own incompetence, negligence and corruption, to something which they can do better than Labour: overt, base, racism and scapegoating. Forget the crumbling NHS, the fact in a supposedly wealthy economy people die becasue they are unable to get an ambulance, forget the foodbanks, the endemic corruption, the excess deaths, the expensive ongoing joke we call privitisation, the so-called "living crisis", the list goes on ad nauseam.
This is a nothing but a cyincal yet effective media strategy to regain control over the narrative
What do you call 'effective'?
The very latest opinion poll which was conducted yesterday and today gives Labour a 24% lead.
I don’t understand why the BBC have got themselves in such a mess over Lineker.
I agree, I think the only difference to Hislop etc is the concerted campaign by both ministers and the right wing press to make an example of Lineker.
The tories are out to define the next GE as being all about immigration and little else for obvious reasons. A last desperate act to remain in power with not a regard to any harm caused to the country.
They really are lower than rats.
Yes but this really is the Streisand effect in action as others have noted.
By flexing their media muscles and escalating a personal tweet to the point where a media personality with pretty much "national treasure" status in many minds is facing discipline/possible sacking they're just drawing more attention to the fact that they're behaving a bit like Nazis (the one word everyone in the press and parliament seems keen to avoid using)...
He's gotten under their skin in a way SKS, the rest of Labour or indeed most other left leaning press never could, mainly I think, because Gary has a higher media profile and and no real political skin in the game. It's almost more who Linekar is than what he Tweeted.
This is the right trying to do the thing they claim lefty woke types love and "cancel" someone with an opposing view who's called them out for what they are. And it's backfiring spectacularly. It's just making them look like thin skinned, bullying fascists (because they are). It's part of Boris' legacy the installation of one of their own in charge of the beeb to try and turn it into another propaganda channel by outlawing criticism under the banner of "balance", but it's simply too obvious...
I'm not so sure Cruella had No.10s blessing to go after Gary either, suggesting the centre isn't going to hold for much longer, and the headbangers He thought he had on a leash are probably going to turn on him again before he can rally for the GE...
I wonder if the BBC could just hand back the keys early before the contract comes up for renewal, like Stagecoach / First Group and the like do with the rail operating contracts?
I'm sure ITV would love to pick up the pieces and offer GL a new contract to boot.
Effective in that it gets the actual problems off the front pages.
I think the current media storm rather proves it.
Concentrate on the issue.
Was what Gary (terrible English football type - I’m a Scots rugby type) said reasonable?
Yes
End of controversy if not conversation. The current government are a bit ominous.
MOTD has been on since the dawn of time on a Saturday night on BBC 1. If you don’t want to see the results then look away now, but this is the first time it will go ahead (if it does) with no presenters or pundits.
So what happens next week? And the week after? It’s clear no presenters or pundits are going to touch it with a barge pole
I’m sure the powers that be will presently be reading the small print on contracts. And there will be plenty
The BBC may be looking at the end of their Premier League highlights deal here unless they sort this, sharpish!
Just something else to add to the ever extending list of things the Tories have ruined
weird isn't it - last person to tie the government in knots was Marcus Rashford. You'd think they might've learned something there
Effective in that it gets the actual problems off the front pages.
Well personally I think the Tories probably have more problems now than they had before all this kicked off.
They obviously thought everyone would be discussing their brilliant and yet strangely illegal immigration bill and that Labour would not oppose it too strongly lest they be seen to be soft on criminals and illegal immigration.
But instead of the media talking about it and the successful trip Rishi Sunak made to France today it has been completely overshadowed by the opinions of a football pundit.
Plus bearing in mind that the ultimate goal is obviously to boost support for the Tories I can't see the latest opinion poll to be much cause for celebration.
The whole thing could just be a way of proving he’s not an employee / in the control of the BBC for the purposes of the £5m IR35 tax dispute with HMRC.
The timing is too much of a coincidence - the first tier tax tribunal hearing took place last week.
The BBC may be looking at the end of their Premier League highlights deal here unless they sort this, sharpish!
Minor loss but nothing significant. Not even full match shown (live). Besides, all highlights are available on Youtube.
If Premier League go head to head with BBC, I think Premier League will lose out and will probably have to sell their highlights rights to the higher bidder from Middle Eastern investors whoever they are. For those that wish to watch the highlights will probably have to pay and that's what I might call own goal.
The timing is too much of a coincidence
There is no coincidence. Lineker's tweet was careful timed to respond to the government's announcement of a clampdown on those seeking asylum.
An interesting take.
https://twitter.com/BigBoyler/status/1634349784558452736
For all the left whining about the right and the right whining about the left, who within the BBC is actually in control and making decisions here?
who within the BBC is actually in control and making decisions here?
Richard Sharp, formerly of Goldman Sachs, Tory party donor, appointed by and mate of Boris Johnson, who facilitated an 800 grand loan to the flytipped sofa
Interesting take indeed Cougar but the BBC in it's current state is already broken. It comes to something when Sky News does a better job of holding the Government to account than the National Broadcaster.
Whilst I agree that the Government has for some time had a strategy for grinding the BBC down to a point where the remnants can be sold off to their mates I think this time they might have bitten off more than they can chew.
"who within the BBC is actually in control and making decisions here?"
As the union rep who did the rounds on TV this evening pointed out, this is the most important question and could / should lead to an inquiry. This might offer an opportunity to arrest the decline and remodel the BBC as fit for purpose. The public doesn't share the same deep down hatred for the Beeb that the Tories do and that, rather like football is something this bunch of public school twits masquerading as a government simply fail to grasp.
The whole thing could just be a way of proving he’s not an employee / in the control of the BBC for the purposes of the £5m IR35 tax dispute with HMRC.
What a daft comment
Lineker never shied away from stating his opinion before and his contract will not change because of it
This Government should always know there’s a tweet to be found, this one is especially entertaining
https://twitter.com/therealelwynd/status/1634324987388542976?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg
Ian Wright said today, on his podcast, that he won’t work for the BBC again if GL was sacked.
I don’t think he is brave enough to do what he said.
In fairness to Ian, I might have mis-quoted him. His comment might have been about MOTD rather than the BBC in general.
Motd will still run but with no presenters / pundits and cameras will only pick up players on the right wing..
Concentrate on the issue.
Was what Gary (terrible English football type – I’m a Scots rugby type) said reasonable?
Yes
End of controversy if not conversation. The current government are a bit ominous.
If I was in charge of a newspaper I would be planning to run a Sunday edition with the headline "Does Lineker have a point?" followed by pages and pages of proper analysis by historians of how the Nazis manipulated the electorate throughout the 30's and comparing each step to what the current govt are doing. No mention of WW2 or the Holocaust, that all happened in the 40's and bringing that into it would play intit Rh hands of Braverman who completely misread the original tweet and it's warning. The tweet would start the story but the govt's actions would be the focus throughout and it would not be pretty. This would hopefully turn the focus away from Lineker and onto what is actually happening but there is no newspaper that is brave enough to do this right now, which is a worry in itself.
Concentrate on the issue.
Was what Gary (terrible English football type – I’m a Scots rugby type) said reasonable?
Yes
End of controversy if not conversation. The current government are a bit ominous.
It is also very simple to sort out. What does the contract between Linker and BBC contain around social media (very easy for BBC to check). If he is in breach of that then end contract, if not then carry on as you were and he can continue to tweet whatever he likes as long as it is not in breach of whatever it states in his contract.
If the nazi's don't like what he is saying that is not a BBC issue (based on contract as above)
Interestingly sports journalists seam to be reporting the background politics of the situation far far better than the political analysts. I suspect because they aren't part of the oxbridge PPE educated conveyor belt supply line into the Westminster bubble that they actually look at it from a better perspective.
From what I have seen, for the usual Westminster bubble reporters it is all about GL and the BBC's claimed impartiality. In the sports reports I have seen much more mention of the actual immigration policy and the condemnation from the UN and human rights groups.
I really hope that any further protests (refusals to do interviews with the BBC etc) make the point of supporting the plight of refugees and opposing government censorship rather than just supporting GL.
Agreed MSP.
I dont see GL backing down, the BBC has a bit of thinking to do.