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There are corners of the Jewish community who are upset about it because they argue that the comparison trivialises the holocaust et al.
Whether that’s a valid complaint if what he’s saying is actually true, I’m not really qualified to say.
Me neither to be fair, but I did see someone making the point that he wasn't comparing it to the holocaust as such but more specifically to 1930s Germany, when the Nazi party were sowing the seeds of hate and division as a way of laying the groundwork for their own powerbase
Wondered how early in the thread Wendyball would be mentioned. I can assure you football is a lot more difficult to master and reach the top than riding a bike through a forest.
I did Germany in the 1930’s in history at school, +40 years ago – I immediately understood what Lineker was referring to, and it wasn’t anything to do with the Holocaust.
+1
The idea that Lineker's tweet somehow diminished the horrors of the Holocaust is clearly cobblers.
What probably goes some way to doing precisely that though is those who play down the toxic nature of bigotry, hatred, and racism.
Me neither to be fair, but I did see someone making the point that he wasn’t comparing it to the holocaust as such but more specifically to 1930s Germany, when the Nazi party were sowing the seeds of hate and division as a way of laying the groundwork for their own powerbase
Still a bit of a dumb thing to say though. I mean I know everyone hates the torys. I get it. But to say that they're 'sowing the seeds of hate...' rather than attempting to grab a nettle that everyone else is quite happy to ignore, and making a pig's ear of it. Seems a bit of fetch. And looks like attention seeking. But he's a nice bloke and he's welcome to say what he likes.
This guy sums it all up quite well for me....
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1633931284840960000?s=20
rather than attempting to grab a nettle that everyone else is quite happy to ignore,
LOL! Everyone was ignoring the plight of desperate people trying to reach the UK in dangerously unseaworthy vessels!!! 😂
say that they’re ‘sowing the seeds of hate…’ rather than attempting to grab a nettle that everyone else is quite happy to ignore, and making a pig’s ear of it. Seems a bit of fetch.
So you think that the actual Holocaust survivor, who eloquently and politely, asked Braverman to change the rhetoric as it causes hate and division, is all just "a bit of a fetch"?
I really don’t see what the fuss is about. Why does anyone care what he posts on ****ter. What’s so special about the views of a tax avoiding football pundit?
Its not as if he is actually doing anything or coming up with a workable solution. It’s just a cry for attention
Something something cancel culture something.
It’s just a cry for attention
Direct quote from CCHQ. Clearly this is why they are trying to keep it in the media
Its not as if he is actually doing anything or coming up with a workable solution.
So quite a lot in common with the Tories then, is that your point?
It’s just a cry for attention
In the case of the Tories "distraction" might be a better word.
@ernielynch. Agreed on both points, attention for Gary and a good distraction for the Tories
The whole of the bill is a distraction, everyone knows it won't work, 99% of the commentary pro or anti Tory has said so. It only being proposed to try to create more division as a method of regaining points incase of a general election.
everyone knows it won’t work,
Giorgia Meloni thinks it's a great idea.
Well somebody was going to say it sooner or later...
Its not as if he is actually doing anything or coming up with a workable solution.
Well, he is doing something, he has refugees staying with him. Workable solutions? Let people apply for asylum in a safe way. Dangerous channel crossings only happen because we stop people applying before they enter the country AND we stop people entering the country through safe means before applying here. We need to make it easier for people to apply from countries near the one they are fleeing, and have initial processing in France for people coming here to apply who've already done the majority of their journey.
There are corners of the Jewish community who are upset about it because they argue that the comparison trivialises the holocaust et al
I honestly don’t understand their perspective. The holocaust was used to murder groups that had been used as a scapegoat by the Nazis. This includes:
- Jewish people
- People with disabilities
- Intellectuals
- Opponents
- Slavic people
- Romany people
- Homosexuals
- Black people.
Whilst Jews may have been victimised by the Third Reich - they were one of several groups.
Any move to remove rights from a group - is a step towards totalitarianism. That is not trivialising the holocaust.
o I’m not sure why he’s so protected. Perhaps he has some Polaroids stashed away in a safe
A friends sister worked at one of the celebrity mags (hello etc) 15 years ago. Someone was a serial shagger, loads of different women when he was still married, asked why it wasnt in the mag, it appears the Editor, who was married, was one of his conquests.
There is a big difference between attacking a foreign government and attacking the UK government.
It is not something that lefties understand though.
I understand the difference perfectly well: one is politically acceptable and the other isn't. The rights and wrongs of the arguments themselves are irrelevant.
Any move to remove rights from a group – is a step towards totalitarianism.
Interesting statement. All groups? The insane, criminals? Removing the right to drive from old-timers? The rights of children to bear arms? Or just the rights of the entire world to come and settle in the UK no questions asked?
"A brief excursion onto twitter leads me to think there’s a lot of very right wing football fans (a lot of them don’t seem too fond of cyclists either). Maybe that’s why they are making a big deal of it?"
There's certainly something in this, the Tories look at football fans and think they can mobilise them like the NF did in the 70s and 80's.
Nothing would have delighted them (and the Andrew Neil's of this world) more than if the booing for taking the knee had developed into crowd violence.
Ditto Boris Johnson tweeting out 10 times on the day of the London BLM protest, imploring footy hooligans to come and protect the statues in Parliament Square, when the Met police and the Mayor had had them boarded up in order to avoid trouble.
What the Tories don't get is that for most football fans footy is a religion, and although they may have voted for Brexit and Boris Johnson, they've also paid a lot of money for their season tickets and rather like Hitler found out in 30's Germany (when the church refused to put his portrait up in their churches), there's a point at which religion comes before politics.
Interesting statement. All groups? The insane, criminals? Removing the right to drive from old-timers? The rights of children to bear arms? Or just the rights of the entire world to come and settle in the UK no questions asked?
I can’t believe you think you are referring to universal human rights. What a fine display of ‘whataboutery’.
There is no right to bear arms.
There is no right to utilise children in an army.
No right for people to drive - driving is a privilege.
People who suffer from mental health issues have rights - they are protected by Mental Health Acts and the Capacity Act.
There is a right for people to travel to a country and claim asylum, seek sanctuary and to apply for refugee status in a place
of safety.
Ah ok. Just checking. As it is, your post was a bit ambiguous. I didn't know whether you were advocating a kind of 'selective anarchism', which I found quite interesting and wanted to explore. Never mind, as you were.
Interesting statement. All groups? The insane, criminals? Removing the right to drive from old-timers? The rights of children to bear arms? Or just the rights of the entire world to come and settle in the UK no questions asked?
Nobody in the UK has the right to drive, you are given a licence based on competence and meeting some other conditions, same as guns.
What rights would you remove from the insane or criminals?
The entire world coming to settle here is a huge red herring.
We get very few refugees and asylum seekers compared to France and Germany.
Its not as if he is actually doing anything or coming up with a workable solution.
The first thing to point out is that this entire small boat thing is a tool 100% created by the Tories to try and stay in power. All of the things people complain about and attribute to the Tories - public services, the NHS, schools, infrastructure, crime, etc etc etc - are all issues because the Tory party have wilfully neglected them for 13 years. Even the cost of housing them is do high because the Home Office is processing so few requests. So, essentially, refugees are not *the* or even *a* problem - it's all smoke and mirrors, they're a convenient target to blame for Tory failings, and the only means by which they can fight the next election.
Secondly, the ostensible reason for the accurately-titled Illegal Migration bill is to put people traffickers out of business, yet it actively criminalises the victims of trafficking. A genuine desire to put traffickers out of business could have been implemented years ago - open a safe route, or process them on French soil, both of which are viable options. But no - they're going to irrevocably remove the right of refugees to come here, and deny them access to support for victims of modern slavery. Jess Phillips spoke with great feeling about this - imagine being trafficked here and forced into a brothel, the traffickers now have actual government literature to coerce them with. "There's no point running away, no-one will help you, not even the government". It's despicable.
TL:DR - the government aren't looking for a solution, although there are many open to them - demonising refugees is the only way they'll keep power.
Or just the rights of the entire world to come and settle in the UK no questions asked?
Obvious troll is obvious.
The reason the tories and the media are upset is that someone with nearly 9 million followers is exposing the lies. Without shutting down twitter they can't silence him. Unless he takes a chauffeured drive along the Seine, of course.
Thankfully Lineker appears to be untouchable, long may that be the case and long may he keep exposing the evil 'people' that run the country.
the government aren’t looking for a solution, although there are many open to them
To be honest, I'm beginning to agree with this. On the one hand you can say 'well at least they're trying to sort out this mess', but on the other it's like the issue is the 'ace in the pack' to pull out whenever Labour look to be getting ahead. So no incentive to actually sort it out...
I'm sure whoever was in power would be doing the same, seems a canny strategy if your first priority is being in power.
seems a canny strategy if your first priority is being in power.
It is a rubbish strategy, it won't win them the next general election. The clampdown on small boat crossings was first announced almost a week ago, in that time all the pollsters show Labour maintaining a huge lead over the Tories.
Priti Patel first announced the decision to deport successful asylum applicants to Rwanda a year ago, during that entire period Labour has maintained a very significant and healthy lead over the Tories - a lead sometimes exceeding a staggering 30%.
A much more canny strategy for the Tories would be to deal with real issues which effect real people, such as NHS waiting times and the cost of living crises.
Unfortunately they are clueless due to their ideological straightjacket and inability to understand the issues which effect ordinary people.
So they trot out some bollocks about being tough on people seeking asylum, in the desperate and futile hope that it will save them.
First they came for Gary Lineker....
Was just gonna post that ☝️
This is really discombobulating.
The QT guy up there nailed it. Division is all they have left. ****ing treasonous.
On the one hand you can say ‘well at least they’re trying to sort out this mess’,
What mess?
1) Net migration to the UK is about half a million per year, a dozen swarthy types in a dinghy isn't going to dent that.
2) Immigrants and refugees are not the same thing.
3) Regardless of their status, illegal immigration is (I can't believe I'm typing this) already illegal. What are we going to do, make it more illegal? Sure, that'll change everything.
4) Look, a football commentator!
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/mar/10/david-attenborough-bbc-wild-isles-episode-rightwing-backlash-fears
Well that ^^ sends out a very clear message........if you care about nature and the environment you are a bit of a leftie.
That should help the wider struggle against right-wing policies, as newspapers such a the Daily Telegraph force people to identify themselves as left-wing. Well done Daily Telegraph!
What mess?
😆
Aye carumba. God help us. I'm out.
Something tells me that censoring Attenborough is deliberate and designed to anger the left, give the tabloids some cheap headlines and draw some battle lines with the core Tory voters. Shocking behaviour by the BBC and I can't wait for their climb down.
What other stuff is being sneaked out while everyone is frothing over this I wonder?
it won’t win them the next general election.
No, but it will engage with their current (far) right wing followers, division is all the Tory party have lelt, and they are now having to follow a hard right wing rhetoric to try to regain some support.
I'm a wokerati leftie, but That Guardian article seems rather misleading. It maintains through the whole article that it is an episode of the series that's being held back from broadcast, but the very last paragraph clarifies that the series "Wild Isles" consists of 5 episodes and the 6th "episode" is not an episode of it all - it has a different title and was commissioned by different people.
"A BBC spokesperson said: “Wild Isles consists of five episodes: Our Precious Isles, Woodland, Grassland, Freshwater and Ocean. Saving Our Wild Isles is a separate film inspired by the series that was commissioned by the RSPB and WWF. We’ve acquired it for iPlayer.”"
Well they've suspended him from MoTD, the ****s.
was commissioned by different people
I don't think it was, same company -Silverback Films, and also with funding from WWF and RSPB.
There is no explanation given by the BBC concerning why it won't be broadcast and only available on iPlayer.
It is clear that recieving funding from notoriously left-wing organisations such as the World Wide Fund for Nature and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds has caused disquiet among some who worry about the impartiality of the BBC.
As the Daily Telegraph reports:
"The BBC’s latest Sir David Attenborough series has been part-funded by two charities previously criticised for their political lobbying, it has emerged".
Well they’ve suspended him from MoTD, the ****.
Amazing how the far right embrace cancel culture with both arms when it suites then.
Well I guess now we know what it was like to live in McCarthyite America. The liberal left really needs to pull it's head out of its arse and start fighting back rather than simply whining on twitter. Where's the Red Army Faction when we need them?
Amazing how the far right embrace cancel culture with both arms when it suites then.
Amen to that
BBC have just demonstrated they don't have any balls - and are hugely inconsistent.
I'm not aware they've talked with Suralan about his opinionated political tweets.
There is no explanation given by the BBC concerning why it won’t be broadcast and only available on iPlayer.
I thought that's exactely what the bit I pulled from the article was. But sod 'em, I'm not going to waste anymore breath sticking up for the idiots given they've now capitulated to right wing scum.
I hope this becomes interesting, and he gets widespread support from the football community for his message. Klop has been quite politically outspoken at times, as has Pep on social issues. Gary Neville, Jordan Henderson, Raheem Sterling could also voice their opinions.
BBC have just demonstrated they don’t have any balls – and are hugely inconsistent.
Absolutely. The only people who seem to be bothered by what he said is the BBC... weird. They seem to jump from pillar to post in an anxious attempt to always be seen to be doing the right thing. Gotta keep that license money flowing I guess.
they’ve suspended him from MoTD
I can't imagine that Suella Braverman and other senior Tories will be very happy with the BBC's decision.
It will obviously be widely seen as an overreaction, and will more likely further increase hostilities towards the Tories.
Especially if Lineker shows no contrition and sticks to his guns. It will in fact now free him to even further criticise then.
I am sure Braverman will have preferred that the whole Lineker tweet issue was quickly forgotten and brushed under the carpet. I won't be now.
I look forward to their battles with David Attenborough next.
BBC public service broadcaster or state broadcaster?
Shambles.
I wonder who will front it on Saturday, suspect a tame contracted frontman who doesn't really have a choice but I also wonder if Chappers, Dan Walker and Gabby Logan aren't answering ther phones right now.
Would love to see players and analysts supporting - however surreptitiously. Rowing boat and zipped lip celebrations maybe?
The only people who seem to be bothered by what he said is the BBC… weird.
Earlier you were claiming that "everyone" has got into a fuss about what Lineker had tweeted and you had no idea why. Now it's just the BBC and you find that weird
If you made your mind up things might start to make more sense 💡
I'd love to see a journalism I am Spartacus moment.
I’d love to see a journalism I am Spartacus moment.
That did actually cross my mind.
Won't happen, but it should.
I can’t imagine that Suella Braverman and other senior Tories will be very happy with the BBC’s decision.
I can - they have the depth of a puddle, short term win is all they think.
Complaint submitted to the BBC about acting in a manner contrary to their guidelines for bias.
Not sure. It might in a non-direct manner - a comment which makes it clear their support.
Something along those lines happened once when Donald Trump was answering questions from journalists, he attacked one, had them thrown out, and the next journalist to ask a question backed the previous one.
Something along those lines happened once with Donald Trump was answering questions from journalists, he attacked one had them thrown out and the next journalist to ask a question backed the previous one.
I think that was the US ambassador to the Netherlands (appointed by Trump).
I can – they have the depth of a puddle, short term win is all they think.
It's not even a short term win.
Ian wright just done a "i am spartacus"
I think that was the US ambassador to the Netherlands (appointed by Trump).
I was thinking of the journalist who had the mic taken off him and was later accused of physically assaulting a Trump intern, which he clearly hadn't.
Alan Shearer needs to step the **** up also
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/entertainment-arts-64895316
The BBC has decided that he will step back from presenting Match of the Day until we’ve got an agreed and clear position on his use of social media
If that's not a muzzle, then I don't know what is. Its an appalling decision when viewed from the point of view of cancel culture being a left-wing ideology, but not a surprise with the recent example of suspending Martine Croxall.
What a bitter, brittle bunch the Govt are.
I was thinking of the journalist who had the mic taken off him and was later accused of physically assaulting a Trump intern, which he clearly hadn’t.
Oh yeah that incident, although I think that was quite successful a narrative that they created in the US, while we got to see a more honest reporting of the situation.
have initial processing in France for people coming here to apply who’ve already done the majority of their journey.
So is France not a safe country then? Assuming it is then they aren't fleeing persecution when they climb into the small boats.
Earlier you were claiming that “everyone” has got into a fuss about what Lineker had tweeted and you had no idea why. Now it’s just the BBC and you find that weird
Wrong choice of word then perhaps. I meant it'd been on the news constantly so assumed it was something 'everyone' was in a fuss about. Turns out it was just the BBC, being outraged at umm, themselves, and showing their outrage via the medium of news. A pre-emtive strike of self-outrage perhaps, before others became outraged at them. Or something... crazy times we live in. They even brought it up in parliament on something I was watching and even the tory minister wasn't bothered. Just said GL didn't know what he was talking about and should stick to footie. Which is fair. Nobody cares.
Sky are reporting that Lineker has not agreed to 'step back'from MOTD, suggesting it's being imposed on him.
Just heard that Ian Wright has said he won't appear - apparently stating 'solidarity'; good.
And indeed the vast majority stop travelling long before they get close to the UK (a very large proportion only cross a single boundary to a neighbouring country).
Those who come all the way to the UK often have a very specific reason for choosing the UK over other countries, such as knowing people here, speaking the language, having been promised safe refuge.
Do the refugees speak French? They're aiming to get to England for good reason, and a country with a language they're familiar with or even able to speak is is a huge reason.
I’m fuming about the Attenborough decision.
I usually stick up for the BBC, not anymore
* the Tory *s
Is he to be replaced by Andrew Neil?
I usually stick up for the BBC, not anymore
Its not the bbc, its people in charge of the bbc, they want to gut it and ruin it.
Is he to be replaced by Andrew Neil?
Whoever does it now is going to look like they support the governments policy
Huge pressure on the other presenters
Own goal from the BBC but the Tories do seem to be in control of it.