[Closed] A Summer of Cricket - SPOILERS

No i grem up watching lloyd, marshall,Ambrose.richards, richardson etc

Swings and roundabouts

You can say what you like about set up and the management but players of the standard they Ozzies had dont come along very often

IMHO the best aussie team of the past would still beat this one as Warne and Mc Grath are better bowlers than Englands current crop and the batters would be even ish IMHO

Basically they dont have the players and england do [ thanks to South Africa 😉 ]

IMHO the best aussie team of the past would still beat this one as Warne and Mc Grath are better bowlers than Englands current crop and the batters would be even ish IMHO

+1

Historical comparisons are tricky, but I reckon the 1989 Ashes team (I'm not old, I got into cricket young 😉 ) of Border, Marsh, Alderman, Boon, Healy, Hughes, Jones, Taylor, Waugh etc would trash 2013 England.

turn for swann 🙂

Or would you just like to carry on losing in a tedious point scoring game that I'm sure just about everyone is fed up of reading.

I could start, if you like. But I'd have to sink to your level and I'd much prefer not to do that.

Anyway, back to far more interesting things than you. I didn't expect Kerrigan to actually play! If nothing else, it's a very rare thing for England to play two spinners.

Cut it out ransos, it's been pleasant in here for a change.

Pity we're not batting first - the two spinners on last would have been very nice

Cut it out ransos, it's been pleasant in here for a change.

I've no intention of carrying on. I've already pointed out that I would prefer not to.

What do you think about Kerrigan playing?

Can you leave your childishness for another thread please

Zokes please try to not react to that and lets all just discuss cricket please
EDIT:

I've already pointed out that I would prefer not to.

Just stop please .

What do you think about Kerrigan playing?

Not a bad call on this wicket. I'm more bemused by Woakes over Tremlett.

Plus, Jimmy was rocking it - taken out of the attack too early?

Pity we're not batting first - the two spinners on last would have been very nice

We might yet be -

Aus to score a mediocre total, England to score a big one, Australia bat last to avoid an innings defeat (or virtually last, maybe just get enough so we technically bat last but target is double rather than 3 figures)

Aus to score big, England don't make follow on, score big in the second and Aus bat last.

Not a bad call on this wicket. I'm more bemused by Woakes over Tremlett.

It's offering turn, then?

Kerrigan's a good bowler but lacks the control of Swann, IMO. Clarke could get stuck into him.

According to Mike Selvey, the pitch offers very little for someone like Tremlett.

I'm more bemused by Woakes over Tremlett.

Well, as Monty seems to have voted himself out thanks to his toiletting problems, I suppose they needed to try out the next spinner for the future should Swanny get hurt.

That, or they just reckon Tremlett's not his old self after injury

blooding nearly men in a dead rubber to see how they react?

Yes you did just after your comment/dig/goad.

Just stop please .

Evidently. Drop it please.

Virtual STW cricket hug anyone?

[img] [/img]

Kieswetter - whatever happened to him?

Sidebottom, too. What's the curly-haired maestro up to these days?

blooding nearly men in a dead rubber to see how they react?

Well yeah, but that's at odds with everything they've been saying about going for the jugular and taking a 4-0 win to Aus.

Kieswetter - whatever happened to him?

I don't have live stream, but... it looks as if England has lost the initiative here?

Not panicking yet. Rogers can't score against spin and is holding an end up, watson is flattering to deceive and will shortly try one shot too many and get out for a dashing 60-odd.

If not said in jest, busy keeping Somerset's wicket & scores high.

No, not in jest. Only really follow at the Test level. I guess Prior's consistency has kept him out of the picture.

I think Woakes thinks he's still playing T20, which is annoying.

Kerrigan - short fulltoss short over pitched short short... 18 off the over I could bat against this

2 debutant bowlers in the same match - seems madness/cocky/idiotic/condescending to the Aussies, no?

Also, whatever confidence Kerrigan had coming into this match must be waning after a couple of overs?

Can't help thinking that England's arrogance/complacency has been laid bare here. Whatever happens from now on, Watson's taken the two debut lads out of the attack and our attack feels thin...

Terry Alderman vs. Gooch was a terrifying experience, sonny.

Yes, but at least it was over quickly most of the time.

People have mentioned the era of the Waughs, Warne, McGrath, Boon etc, but what really shows the fall of Australian cricket is the others whose era that was, but couldn't get a game for Oz. Instead, they just dominated county and/or shield cricket.

Jamie Cox
Darren Lehmann
Stuart Law
Greg Blewett
Andy Bichel
Stuart MacGill
Duncan Spencer
Matthew Elliot

Any of these would walk into the Aussie side today.

Oh, and can someone please have a squiz back through stuff on youtube featuring 'Boof' and find an example of him smashing the cover off of one to the keeper and not walking. It shouldn't be too difficult.

I think he might be trying to deflect some criticism from his team - the only players who are doing any good are no spring chickens, either - take Clarke, Rogers, Siddle and Haddin out of that team and......

The series has been only nominally approaching an even contest at a few points, and this has almost completely been down to England under-performing. The gulf in class at the moment is huge.

Hmmm. That may be so, dannyh, but I can't help thinking that this short snapshot today has revealed that England's squad isn't as deep as we like to think

Hmmm. That may be so, dannyh, but I can't help thinking that this short snapshot today has revealed that England's squad isn't as deep as we like to think

Yep, it would be interesting to know if there really are top quality players being kept out of the team by our first XI.

And not all XI are great at the moment - Prior being a notable example.

I'll add to that actually...

Root has had one brilliant innings and has otherwise looked vulnerable
Compton didn't seem to cut it
Bairstow never seemed to click

Yes, I know they're young and need time to gain experience (as do these two bowlers), but they're not there yet

From today's Torygraph - Dan "the cuckoo" Hodges:

After Durham I wrote how this England side had built a shield of arrogance around themselves that had stood them in good stead during the pivotal moments of the series. But I also said they had a habit of letting that arrogance drift into boorishness. This week Stewart Broad and his team-mates,(I assume his interview was an accurate reflection of the prevailing team ethos) turned boorishness into an art form.
Arrogance is one thing. Petulance is another.

Before the series started, England were confronted with accusations of ball-tampering. They reacted with shock and indignation: “It's come as a very unwelcome distraction and, frankly, we could do without allegations such as these,” said Jimmy Anderson.

After the Old Trafford Test they faced a new charge of putting tape on the edges of their bats to prevent the Hot Spot camera from detecting an edge. They responded by threatening legal action against the TV channel that had first broadcast the allegations.

But England can’t have it both ways. If they want to wander around parading their “win at all costs” attitude, they can’t then complain when people start accusing them of trying to win at all costs.

Andy Flower has built a very good cricket team. But his side is now in danger of letting their hubris outpace their talent. They have just bested Michael Clarke’s Australians, not Steve Waugh’s. They have only briefly managed to hold the world number one spot, and that at a time when the standard of Test cricket is lower than at any point in the past 50 years. If England want to be truly great then Stuart Broad and his colleagues have to realise one important thing: winning is no longer enough....

...Yes, glorious failure is meaningless. But so is inglorious success. England have to win. [b]But to reach the pinnacle, they have to win with style and class. Great sportsman, great deeds. Not chippy prima donnas who can’t understand why they’re being criticised for knocking the cover off the ball and then standing there like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth.

England had the chance of greatness this summer, and they squandered it.[/b] They won’t get many more.

Wanting to play hard and ruthless is very different from cheating. The journalist - presumably deliberately - is conflating the two.

To be fair, THM, whilst I agree with most of that, if England's inglorious victory is compared to Australia's frankly farsical performance on and behaviour off the field, England still come out on top by some margin. Lehmann's brainfart to the bogan radio station being the crowning glory

I know fifo - but STW is a forum where racing to the bottom is normally frowned upon!!

I think Broad and Lehmann cancelled each other out in terms of the "level" of their comments. Both say a lot about the team cultures, perhaps? Or the media looking to keep the issue warm!!!

Interesting article.

Is England a great team in 2013?

IMO, it's not as complete as the Ashes winning team of Vaughan, Flintoff, Jones etc...

IMO, it's not as complete as the Ashes winning team of Vaughan, Flintoff, Jones etc...

What would be your combined XI? I'd go:

Cook
Trescothick
Vaughan (c)
Pietersen (2005 version)
Bell (2013 version)
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Jones
Anderson

That's 6-5 in favour of the 2013 team...

My combined XI:

Cook
Strauss
Vaughan (c)
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Flintoff
Geraint Jones
Swann
Simon Jones (or Broad)
Anderson

And the Aussie side would be probably all 2005 players...

Get in! That one must feel good!

Cheers,
Jamie

sitter dropped by the captain

Pivotal moment, that?

With Watson gone, the AUS innings would look very different.

G Jones?? Are you mad?

My only change to ransos' team would be the Harmy of 2005 for Broad. I know Broad has his moments of genius, but Harmy was downright impossible when he was on the money, which, in 2005, he was.

Hard to see neither Strauss or Hoggy in there, but I woldn't drop any of the current mob to make room for them

G Jones?? Are you mad?

Hey! I stand by my selection. 8)

Prior - IMO hugely overrated as a batsman; at least Jones didn't pretend to be a batting God.

My only change to ransos' team would be the Harmy of 2005 for Broad.

For me, Harmison's scatter-gun approach discounts him from the team.

Plus, it's Strauss for Trescothick every time and I'd definitely go for an in-form Simon Jones over Broad.

My only change to ransos' team would be the Harmy of 2005 for Broad. I know Broad has his moments of genius, but Harmy was downright impossible when he was on the money, which, in 2005, he was.

Yeah, I didn't think there was much between them. Harmy a more dangerous bowler on his day (as you say, he was still good in 2005) but Broad can also bat.

I felt that Trescothick opening with Cook was a bit more dynamic than Strauss, plus Tres was on good form in that series IIRC.

Prior - IMO hugely overrated as a batsman; at least Jones didn't pretend to be a batting God.

Prior's test record doesn't lie...he's a much superior batsman to Jones, and his keeping is first rate these days too.

For me, Harmison's scatter-gun approach discounts him from the team.

Plus, it's Strauss for Trescothick every time and I'd definitely go for an in-form Simon Jones over Broad.

Again, purely on 2005 form it has to be Tres for me, though in overall terms I agree with you. I actually thought that Simon Jones was the difference between the two teams in that series. It's not bad having your change bowler reverse swinging at 90mph!

this is absolute rubbish from Kerrigan.

Yeah, Simon Jones' injury was very unfortunate. For all Freddie's heroics storming, Jones was an amazing exponent of fast reverse swing.

Tresco I'd have over Strauss as he was an opener who could also attack, rather than just weather the storm and accumulate

I'd have Harmy (2005) over Broad for his bowling. With a batting lineup like our fantasy up there, we don't even need to think about picking bowlers for their batting. Swann's a decent number 8 anyway.

Well, this rain is a tad unfortunate

I'm sure that's what Kerrigan is thinking, zokes!

If I were in his position I'd be raring for a second bite of it

He cannot do any worse Crosses fingers etc

he was so bad he looked like an aussie panic pick 😉

Plenty of 'Eye of the Tiger' on the Kerrigan iPod then?

I hope he gets a second bite - and takes a couple this innings.

Not that I really care about this match. Lehmann's petulant outburst has given me all the gloating power I need at work. Slightest mention of cricket and I just get to tell them to stop whinging 😀

at this point I'd take a draw.

very odd selections by England. I'd have brought in Taylor to open, dropped Root down to fill Bairstow's postion and replaced Bresnan with Tremlett.

Woakes looks, and probably is, innocuous
Kerrigan looks utterly out of his depth

Well, at least Trott can bowl

So Lehmann is fined for calling a spade a spade or citing the elephant in the room since to do this is to be guilty of failing to show respect to fellow players (and match officials), but the elephant is effectively condoned or at least not sanctioned despite clearly disrespecting both other parties by his originsl behaviour and subsequent crowing about it. Ok, Lehmann is guilty of hypocrisy but the ICC have fallen to wendyball lows in terms of maintaining any moral high ground. What a mess. We will have moronic chanting from the stands next, oh wait a minute.....goes off to find the humbugs and zimmer!!

I predict run fest for England today.

I hope for a runfest

WOW THM so many metaphors in there for me to follow but apparently some cricketers done bad and cheat and shit but [s]football[/s] wendyball is worserer...was that it?

Well you nailed that issue 🙄

Yeah, that "let's just talk about the cricket" thing again

😉

Fifty up

Re

View

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Not out!

Re players not walking. It's not cheating. There is nothing in the laws requiring them to do so and there is no attempt to influence the umpire's decision.

Anyone else think this whole Test bizarre... England not interested in endearing themselves in any way to the paying public (either in their team selection, field placings or over rate). I can't see any positives from England in the 1st 2 days and have never been less inclined to like an England team, despite this one being ostensibly successful

Its not cheating but the rules include the spirit of the game and it breaks them

Essentially as long as all playera do the same thing does it really matter?

Cook out now for 28 - still they got a 50 partnership

Its not cheating but the rules include the spirit of the game and it breaks them

The spirit of the game is so nebulous you could take it to mean anything.

My take is that you should always respect the umpire's decision, but that doesn't extend to deciding for him.

Sheck, I think our boys are doing their best to prove Dan Hodges (see previous page) correct. It is a shame and unnecessary IMO.

Broad's comments in relation to his own choices and the mentality of the team before the start of this test reminded me of an old business school HR quote - we judge ourselves by our intentions, others judge us by our behaviour.

We may have won the Ashes but we will also be judged by our behaviour and as Hodges said - "Yes, glorious failure is meaningless. But so is inglorious success. "

Great teams do not need to resort to slow over rates, "problems" (sic) with their shoes or so-called "professional" behaviour/gamesmanship.

JY - you are normally a guy who argues against races to the bottom in other fields of life. Why is cricket any different?

Agreed... Inglorious success sums it up pretty well, and there's some resonance with this siege mentality that the England team seem to be adopting (albeit they've invited whatever sort of siege they may be feeling upon themselves). However there seems to be a bit of a playground attitude too... They don't seem to have any answers when things are going against them... Like they consider it unfair that they lost the toss, and consequently they're not going to try!

Maybe it's because I spent a few hours in the drizzle at the Oval yesterday and was then underwhelmed by England's attitude and performance with the ball in favourable conditions, but they seem intent on annoying people, and then to be indignant when people express annoyance!

It kind of reminds me of the blind refusal to pick Panesar when touring Oz a few years ago... Cutting nose off to spite face because the media had the nerve to question our selection policy...

If, as the commentators keep saying, this is a full house, then why is the middle tier of that big stand empty?

Hmmm that's a tad annoying. Root out top edging Lyon on the sweep. KP in

silly shot by Root. He needs to drop back the order imo

Riveting stuff this 😐

anyone seen Tremlett's figures for Surrey today?

8-96

silly shot by Root. He needs to drop back the order imo

yes only Bell has outscored him and Trott and cook are below broad and just above Bairstow and Swann 😯

He also has the best bowling figures 😉

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=7362;team=1;type=series

Selectors have messed up having picked him he should have let him bowl on the second day as that sends out a huge signal to him and to the opposition - when even your own team wont let you bowl you are not up tp the task

Rain

Rain

Rain

So.... England AO

Strolling to a draw, or one last surprise?

Edit: or not... Is Kerrigan a worse bar than jimmy???

I think Clarke has finally lost his marbles with his batting order!

Great c&b from Jimmy!

He cannot trust anyone else to hold them 😉

Just because Clarke wants it to be like a t20, Jimmy's not having it. Faulkner totally out of his depth against Jimmy with the new red ball

And Swanny's got Watto out, and not LBW for a change 😀

Quack

Why didn't Haddin walk? That was just blatant cheating. I just hope the English public give it to him right from the word go for the whole of the ODI series and I hope he cries and he goes home.