Gah - just been offered a job

so a fag packet calculation is coming out somewhere similar.

Possibly even a bit better for the job depending on how good benefits are. HOw would the hours compare?

Do you enjoy being self employed?

Is the permy roll really only offering 20 days holiday (4 weeks)

Would your quality of life improve and how long do you really want to work for 🙂

Is the permy roll really only offering 20 days holiday (4 weeks)

I think he's saying that as a self employed person he only takes 20 days leave p/a. Or 3 weeks and a few sick days.

HOw would the hours compare?

Do you enjoy being self employed?

Well, I'm currently working nights on the M4, so better than that

But yeah, I love it - 11 years self employed after 22 years employed

Is the permy roll really only offering 20 days holiday (4 weeks)

Not seen the full terms yet, but 4 weeks was based on what I roughly estimate to have off in the SE role, not the employed role. TBH, I probably have 6 weeks off if I add the odd days up

Would your quality of life improve and how long do you really want to work for 🙂

From a home perspective probably, from a work perspective, questionable. I'll be working to the death haha, albeit I don't want to

I live in Derbyshire btw for some context to the location

Or 3 weeks and a few sick days.

Inc bank holidays too?

That does seem to be one of the big benefits of going back to paye for many - Many self employed I know who in reality work 6 days a week on average when they pledged to work 5 and take the bare minimum holiday because they feel they need to make hay when they can or don't want to let the client down and not get another gig.

Conversely I'm the same age as you and considering going the other way and going freelance (and a significant career shift). Why does grass always have to look greener!?!

The advantage of being salaried are sick pay and extra pension. Don't discount the value of the sick pay. With Covid I'd have been in bother without the sick pay. Also look out for death in service benefit, some companies pay this and saves on life insurance if you're into that sort of thing.
Also you are now entitled to ask for flexible working patterns from day 1 of a contract now so if you want to do compressed hours, 9 day fortnight, work more in winter and less in summer you can ask and if they want to keep you will probably work out a compromise.
I guess you need to work that against the apparent freedom of contracting and the inevitable have to deal with a certain amount of company policy and management nonsense.
Sounds like you have good choices either way though.

It's one of those positive / negative columns you need to fill with each part of the old and new jobs, what does the next 1, 3 and 5 years look like as a contractor, what changes are coming up in the industry, etc, etc.

In our neck of the woods we're bringing stuff in-house and minimising outsourcing, we've seen TUPE in the past and so on for long term contractors, but we do still have long term contractors around, albeit they are getting rarer.

As always though, just do the first step, pros and cons, after that it tends to be an easier choice, if you're honest about them.

but I know the team I’d be working with and it’s a pretty relaxed environment.

That alone is worth a lot!

Although obs no guarantee it will continue like that for ever.

Mrs STR (who would like me to take it)

So why are you even debating what you're going to do? Happy wife = easy life 🙂

I think he’s saying that as a self employed person he only takes 20 days leave p/a. Or 3 weeks and a few sick days.

Likely. ..but for calculation purposes you can't really compare it over 48 weeks then.

Unless you really do prefer to work .....I'd take more days off pro rata over more money.... Long as my rate per hour worked remained the same or more than previous....

What quality are the toilet rolls and how many could you steal?

salary is probably around 2/3 of my annual SE income based on day rate x 48 weeks. I can post figures, albeit it’s not the done thing, I don’t mind.

Obviously there are business costs to be removed and employment perks to be added, so a fag packet calculation is coming out somewhere similar.

Followed by:

office based in Welwyn – 3 days office, 2 days WFH – I’m away all week contracting

This is a massive one for me. Obviously, we know othing of your home life, family, dependents etc, and at 50 you;ll be in a different place in your life to me in my Thirties, but being at home most of the week has a MASSIVE value.

Are you out in digs/hotels 4 or 5 nights a week currently? To put the value i talk about above into something STWers will understand - I bet you dont get much bike riding in when your away all week? Imagine how much you can do when you WFH and at 16.30 the laptop slams shut and the bike is 15 metres away in the garage ready to go.

Secondly, not withour making any comment about your work ethic/morals/drive etc, (you obviously have some as your self employed/contracting!) dont discount that as you get closer to your 60s and retirement, being PAYE gives you an increasingly large chance to simply 'not give a hoot'.

Disappointing thread, thought it would be worms given the paid task of eating a composting heap. 😉

Are you out in digs/hotels 4 or 5 nights a week currently? To put the value i talk about above into something STWers will understand – I bet you dont get much bike riding in when your away all week? Imagine how much you can do when you WFH and at 16.30 the laptop slams shut and the bike is 15 metres away in the garage ready to go.

Currently in my caravan (but sometimes stay in a nice pub), with the bike outside, but yeah away all week. I quite like the lifestyle - get to go to new places and make new friends. The employed role would be the same place all the time and strictly hotels whilst away

After many years contracting today I finally accepted a permie role.
I’m a similar age to you OP. The pension was the huge incentive for me. Probably a completely different financial position to each other, but a recent divorce hurt my retirement. I spent about 6 months working through the finances and weighing up permie vs contracting. At my stage in life permie won.
I also used to travel and stay in hotels, sometimes was fun, I’d also take my bike. But I’d rather have been at home.
I get 27 days holiday and of course all bank holidays, option to sell 5 days back or buy 5 days as well. So that’s 6 weeks paid leave, so one and a half months paid time off approx.
The pension is triple contribution up to 12%, so I put in 4% and they put in 12%, or I put more in but the company contribution is maxed at 12%. As a former contractor I was putting in a large amount, then divorce came along and that has stopped when most of my pension was given away.
Also don’t know if this is the same for you, but as a permie I also get a bonus, 20-30% of salary. That is obviously discretionary and based on my performance and the companies. But it’ll be going straight into the pension.

Only you know what is right. If you think the team you would be working for are a good fit for you and the money makes sense, I’d go for it. Current partner made a good point, we spend such a large portion of our time working, it’s really important we enjoy and respect the people we work with. Sounds like you’ve found a good team.

Your current contract has security only as long as your client retain their contract; that isn't a given despite 10 yrs left on PFI.
Is your financial comparison net to net taking into account tax deductibles from SE? If not, it should be.
If that doesn't materially change your assessment, my view is you should accept - reasons are an amalgam of much posted above.
If your accommodation and subsistence costs will be covered - and not treated as BIK - that would reinforce my view you should accept.

Just negotiating something similar. Can’t believe I’m about to leave 20+ years of SE, but it’s the easiest route off the tools in the long term and gives me a chance to pass my skillz onto younger lads with better knees and backs than mine. Really not sure about it - but I think it makes sense. Pension, private health, no vehicle expenses, no shelling out loads for PPE…it makes sense but I’m really struggling with it.

What about sick pay? As you get older might be a benefit you want to give family some security. Death in service benefits (sometimes linked to company pension or a standalone benefit).
Sorry to be a bit pessimistic but these are sometimes benefits for people in the last 10-15 years of their careers.

I went from contracting to staff, thought it was a good idea, lasted a year before went back to contracting. Wont make that mistake again

Choose wisely.

I went from contractng to staff, thought it was a good idea, lasted a year before went back to contracting. Wont make that mistake again

Choose wisely.

You did better than me, lasted 10 weeks.  As a mate said to me "your a pirate, no going back to the navy"

@captain_bastard I like that one, add it to the list i have (chaos equals cash, efficiency breeds redundancy, jobs not worth doing unless you can do it 3 times, whats the difference between staff and contract? 3 weeks, week off? id rather have a leg off, ....)

The redeeming feature was it was very close to home (no WFH malarky then). Decided to give it a year. Id have to do 'eons' to make the pension worthwhile, the performance bonus was rubbish, the medical cover was poor, sick pay time limited, training non existant, but worst of all - appraisals. Y'know the ones where the idiot in charge of you has to tell you how good/bad you are. Forgot about that particular torture. Your boss wants you to be a superstar, but doesnt want to write it down to justify a good pay rise.

Relevant joke:

One day while walking down the street a highly successful executive woman was tragically hit by a bus and she died. Her soul arrived up in heaven where she was met at the Pearly Gates by St. Peter himself.

“Welcome to Heaven,” said St. Peter. “Before you get settled in though, it seems we have a problem. You see, strangely enough, we've never once had an executive make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you.”

“No problem, just let me in.”, said the woman.

“Well, I'd like to, but I have higher orders. What we're going to do is let you have a day in Hell and a day in Heaven and then you can choose whichever one you want to spend an eternity in.”

“Actually, I think I've made up my mind...I prefer to stay in Heaven”, said the woman. “Sorry, we have rules...” And with that St. Peter put the executive in an elevator and it went down-down-down to Hell. The doors opened and she found herself stepping out onto the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and standing in front of her were all her friends - fellow executives that she had worked with and they were all dressed in evening gowns and cheering for her.

They ran up and kissed her on both cheeks and they talked about old times. They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where she enjoyed an excellent steak and lobster dinner. She met the Devil who was actually a really nice guy (and kinda cute) and she had a great time telling jokes and dancing. She was having such a good time that before she knew it, it was time to leave. Everybody shook her hand and waved good-bye as she got on the elevator.

The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at the Pearly Gates and found St. Peter waiting for her. “Now it's time to spend a day in heaven,” he said. So she spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds and playing the harp and singing. She had a great time and before she knew it her 24 hours were up and St. Peter came and got her. “So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity,” he said.

The woman paused for a second and then replied, “Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, Heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in Hell.” So St. Peter escorted her to the elevator and again she went down-down-down back to Hell. When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. She saw her friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks. The Devil came up to her and put his arm around her. “I don't understand,” stammered the woman, “yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and we danced and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable.”

The Devil looked at her and smiled. “Yesterday we were recruiting you; today you're staff.”

What’s the appeal of contracting? Is it just a money thing, or the fact you are your own boss?

I’ve been paye since 16 and now approaching 50 and to me it feels unsettling, riskier, more paperwork and hassle. Clearly thousands do it and many choose to do it over being employed, just trying to understand the benefits I’m perhaps not seeing.

You can always go back to contracting if the job doesn't work out. Probably less of a risk than jumping the other way was!

I went from contracting to staff, thought it was a good idea, lasted a year before went back to contracting. Wont make that mistake again

Choose wisely.

Same for me, hated being employed ,felt trapped, hated the personal development stuff and playing the career development game,always had the nagging feeling that I can be earning more for less hassle as self employed.