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Small question for my son here guys.
Should he get the 80% pay on his normal payday?
Pretty much, I got 50% normal pay & 50% furlough pay, as I was furloughed for half of the pay period.
Now back at work with a shed load of work to catch up on for now..
I understood that three weeks was the minimum furlough period. If you aren’t off for three weeks, the employer can’t claim for it.
Day 2 for me. Not sure how I fitted work in to be honest...
Should he get the 80% pay on his normal payday?
If he’s on a regular wage then 80% of that on usual payday
If he’s on variable wage 80% of the financial year average up until the day he was furloughed.
I paid my staff on Friday and it worked out ok for all except for 1 lady whose hours built up over the year. I spoke to HMRC and they agreed that an average of the last 6 months would be a fair way to calculate it but unfortunately I had to stick to the guidance.
That assumes the business paid the pay on that day. They may have to pay the pay when they have the money in to pay it. They could be broke, out of cash. A lot of businesses dont have money in the bank to cover bills if there are no sales coming in.
Some businesses can afford to payout before the money comes in from the government, others won't be able to. They may not have a helpful bank to cover them in the short term either. Banks dont move fast.
As always, thanks for the info guys.
He should get paid this Friday so fingers crossed.
Not sure there will be a company left for him to go back to after all this but I hope I'm wrong.
BA have just announced 12,000 redundancies and Airbus have put 4,000 on furlough in the uk.
@Trimix The scheme allows for payroll to be submitted in advance of payday allowing the money to be in the bank on the right day for the employee. IT does mean the employer may have to run payroll earlier than normal.
Yep. Found out on the TV news that BA are to make 12000 staff redundant.
They refused to put pilots on the furlough scheme as we might be needed. So we are on half pay for 2 months instead, now on notice of redundancy.
Surely the furlough scheme barely touches a pilots salary? A Long Haul BA Captain is on what? £165k/y £13.5k per month? Even a co-pilot is what...£70k? Then + hourly duty rate at £13/h?
I wish! Stop reading the daily mail.
Year one pilot, having paid their own training loan of over £100,000 starts on £26000.
BA furloughed staff on 80% of all salary. Some old contract staff members will be on plenty more than £2500/month.
Pilots were considered too in need for furlough but are working on half pay for Apr/May.
I've got to the bottom of why my pay is short, they're calculating weekly wage/80% x 52 weeks - Holiday pay
Is that a requirement or have they just thrown their own spin on it? I know its "free" money but the extra 8% taken is enough to make a difference
The rules state you are allowed to keep your holiday entitlement and don’t have to take annual leave during the period of Furlough. They can’t enforce that upon you. My wife’s company tried to pro rata holiday entitlement this week and backed down after many complaints...
https://www.xperthr.co.uk/faq/can-an-employee-take-annual-leave-while-on-furlough-leave/165128/
On a related note, we're running a survey at work to track people's experiences of being furloughed (we're a people/HR comms business). If you have a spare 5 minutes (ha!) this morning, it would be really useful if you were able to tell us how it's going for you.
It's all anonymous, and there's also a prize draw too.
Survey here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/S5NQ6FC
Thanks!
@ambientcoast Can you give more details on who your company is and what the prize(s) is/are?
I don't want to just send the link to furloughed colleagues without knowing a bit more about it. Thanks
@kryton they've just struck the holiday pay of the total furlough for e.g 28 days x day rate then/52 then take that figure off the 80%
On going back to work Redrow are opening there sites from the 18th no word yet if we'll be going back as my firm pulled everyone off site before the sites even closed down
@bentandbroken Sure - there's bit more info at the survey link, but we're at welovechatter.com
In a nutshell we help businesses communicate with their people, and we're doing quite a bit of research around the whole coronavirus/furlough situation at the minute because it really is uncharted territory for pretty much everyone. No-one has ever been through this before, but we're hearing lots of anecdotes around good/bad experiences from people who are furloughed, so we're just trying to galvanise these into something tangible.
As for the prize, I have no idea as I'm not managing it. I'll check and come back. Hold tight. :o)
Currently several oilfield service companies are laying off and refusing to furlough.
Stating that "this is for economic reasons not covid 19"
No shit. Economic reasons brought on by covid 19.
Dick move and the fact that employees have gone to the press with it in the case of big red I have zero sympathy for the companies.
@bentandbroken I should probably add that this is part of a wider CSR type project where we're taking the lead in establishing a working group for our clients and for the people/HR sector as a whole with a view to trying to figure out a playbook for businesses and organisations to better deal with this kind of thing now, and in the future.
Ok, apologies for spamming the thread... this is my last one - promise! :o)
There's some really good stuff written out over the 4 or 5 pages here about people's furlough experiences, and it would be great to get this lot into a more usable format so we can dig into the data properly.
I've checked and the prize for the draw is a £50 Amazon voucher, and we could do with as many responses as poss before Friday.
The survey is here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/S5NQ6FC
Please share with any colleagues who are also furloughed too, if you're comfortable with that.
Thanks all.
a view to trying to figure out a playbook for businesses and organisations to better deal with this kind of thing now, and in the future.
Seems a bit of an odd aspect to focus on, the likelihood of another furlough scheme occurring would seem very low (imho) as pandemics are rare and the economy’s going to be down the pan after this one so there’ll be no one to furlough and no money to do it.
Far more interesting / useful /.playbookable how companies who aren’t furloughing but adapting are getting on (ianhr but Mrs kilo is the hr director in a non furloughed wfh company)
Seems a bit of an odd aspect to focus on
In isolation, yeah, I'm with you. But this is just a fraction of what's going on. There's a whole bunch of research and other work happening. This survey is just about furlough and people's experiences of it. The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme won't end until the 30th June and may well be extended beyond that, so even in the current situation there's still lots of scope for organisations to improve these furlough experiences however they can. And if there ever is another similar situation - even if it's just a second wave of infections later in the year that shut the country down and send employees home again - then businesses might be a little more ready than they were two months ago in terms of managing that employee experience.
There are also conversations about whether working from home will become more prevalent in the future, about making more effective use of tech in the workplace, about work related travel... all springing out of this. The list is huge, and it's all new ground. To almost everyone.
However, the overarching purpose to all this (at least for us and our field of expertise) is people comms, and the relationship between employee and employer... and how we can help organisations be better at it.
Do you still acquire annual leave whilst on furlough?
Do you still acquire annual leave whilst on furlough
Yes, you are still employed, being furloughed means the co gets money from the govt. You aren't being paid furlough by the govt, your employer should still be paying you.
As mentioned above, the govt has allowed that people should be allowed to carry over holiday for longer, but the company has to agree to it.
@dantsw13 - I got my information from an HR manager at BA - It was an average and is comparable to other airlines.
Basic starting salary for a Captain is £70k and admittedly for a just a pilot, it's lower, but £26 is lower than any figure I've ever seen. My friend started at Easyjet with no jet experience on £42k and that was 6 years ago. He's now on £66k.
Additional information is available at the FT:
https://www.ft.com/content/dccfd6d6-d3e1-11e9-8367-807ebd53ab77
im special in the fact that i thought i was furloughed but actually im not, ive been laid off but my position is still current(i think) i started at the turn of the month 2/3/20 and my rti wasnt processed till after the 18th of march so i dont get paid. i feel pretty crap about this tbh. i only worked for a small £700mill a year company. time for a new direction i think
Copied from wrong thread:
As with many employers currently, my wife’s employer is going to have to furlough some of its staff. However, the situation is complicated by the nature of the work that some of her colleagues do and their contractual situation.
Employee A has two very separate roles at the organisation (separate contracts, different rates of pay, different continuous service dates, etc.). There is no work available for one of these roles, but the other has plenty of work to do. Can a single employer furlough an employee from one job but continue to employ them in the other? (The guidance says an employee cannot to any work or provide services for the employer when furloughed, but nothing explicitly says that this situation would be the same).
Employee B only has one job on the payroll with their employer. However, they also provide (very different) services for which they invoice, as a sole trader. Can they be furloughed from their PAYE role and continue to invoice for for their sole trader work? I don’t know whether the “… or provide services…” precludes them from doing this.
Anyone know what the employer can do in each case? And can you point me to some written guidance that I can pass on (rather than relying on “someone from Singletrack said…”)?
Thanks all! Stay safe.
Well thats that - Mrs K is furloughed from next Monday. They are topping up her salty to 95% (there was a cpiorate 5% cut a few weeks ago) though so thats a small bonus.
However, they've said they'll pro rate peoples leave e.g. if you come back 1 July your entitlement is 6 months, not what you've accrued during Furlough or the first half of the year which is not what Gov.UK states, so when she gets her formal letter, she'll be replying with a link to the Gov.Uk article in it. When she queried the HR lady she replied with "well we are topping up your salary so a little reciprocation isn't unfair is it?"
Well good news for some:
a) Furlough extended to October
b) 80% pay remains
c) Employers will be allowed to gradually re-ntroduce people back as part time workers with reducing Furlough payments as a top up.
Must admit I was pretty surprised to hear this today, maybe, just maybe they've actually got something right, god knows where the money is coming from but still probably cheaper than the scheme ending June on a cliff edge with mass redundancies to follow causing a massive shock to economy costing even more in the long run.
When she queried the HR lady she replied with “well we are topping up your salary so a little reciprocation isn’t unfair is it?”
Seems reasonable enough to me.
50,000 dead.
Must admit I was pretty surprised to hear this today, maybe, just maybe they’ve actually got something right, god knows where the money is coming from
Agree 100%. This is unexpectedly generous and surprisingly reasonable. I expected there to be at least a drop in the %age.
As for where the cash is coming from...
the money is coming from
Taxes. Wait til the April 2021 Budget is announced, it'll be painful...
Seems reasonable enough to me.
Only because you clearly don't understand the machinations or cost of looking after young children, or perhaps you expect me to kick them outside to fend for themselves whilst we're at work.
Interesting. Currently furloughed along with half the dept. I can see the whole dept being furloughed part time being a much more effective solution.
Interesting. Currently furloughed along with half the dept. I can see the whole dept being furloughed part time being a much more effective solution.
Indeed. My wife works 3 days a week so I’m expecting - pending the detail - that in July she be asked back 1-2 Days with the Furlough supplementing the remainder where there’s not enough work until it becomes enough for the full 3 days. If it truly works this way it’s quite effective, and in our case likely stops her being made redundant as would have been on a “cliff edge” scenario.
Only because you clearly don’t understand the machinations or cost of looking after young children
Really? You're not the first parent in the world 🙂
Practically though - imagine the furlough scheme runs through to the end of September. Do you expect everybody to get all of their accrued holiday allowance to use in the three months before the end of the year?
At present, I’m still accruing leave. I have taken one day this year so far and had two weeks cancelled.
Good news. Means my company (events industry) might survive. If we'd have been kicked off Furlough in June with an empty order book until public gatherings are allowed again we'd have been dead in minutes.
Same as you JonEdwards, 95% of our work is out of the country, international medical meetings and congresses. It's still no guarantee that'll we'll survive given that our work relies on travel as well as meetings but at least it gives some hope.
I'm not convinced I understand why furloughed staff get to accrue leave whilst furloughed.
Thinking of my wife's firm - those left are working their bollocks off doing their bit to keep the company alive for both themselves and those furloughed. Some have taken leave during the lockdown to give themselves a bit of recovery time having worked through from New year. With furloughing going on for another 4 months plenty more will have to do the same if they are not to suffer long term consequences. Others have had their request to cancel their pre-booked leave turned down. Yet there will be a cohort of the firm coming back from furlough after 6 months entitled to a wedge of leave. Lockdown has been pretty unpleasant but from tomorrow it does not look too bad for those furloughed - 80% of your pay without the hassle of working and permission to have long days out chillaxing in the summer sun. If anything the accrued leave should be transferred to those left behind to man the ship as a bit of a thank you from those (not their fault I hasten to add) who played no part in keeping it afloat so they had a job to come back to. That would seem fairer.
I’m not convinced I understand why furloughed staff get to accrue leave whilst furloughed.
I'd be interested to see the guidance that says they should. Whilst furloughed they're essentially unemployed, (normally they would be unpaid but the job retention scheme is paying that presently).
Furloughed workers are entitled to accrued holiday - they can't be forced to take it whilst on furlough and they don't loose it but if they've been furloughed for 6 months they'd normally only get the pro-rata holiday allowance for the 6 months they worked.
Obviously things aren't currently normal.
The company is allowed to let staff carry over leave they can't reasonably use this year because of furlough but I've not seen anything saying you should be accruing holiday and benefits in any of the stuff I've seen (far from all, or even a half no doubt)
Whilst furloughed they’re essentially unemployed
They are actually still employed and are being paid by their employer. It's just that the employer gets the furlough pay back as a grant thus all benefits such as holiday still accrue. Where companies have cut pay to the 80%, they should have had agreement from employees to do so.
Yes, the holiday bit is unfair on top of the fact some staff are working and others aren't. It was a quick and broad approach- these injustices probably weren't on the radar when it was devised. What would be the alternative- mass redundancies and imagine how swamped the DWP (or whatever it is now) would be. Social distancing on the dole queue would be fun.
The company is allowed to let staff carry over leave
No, staff are allowed to carry it over, with the proviso the company agree to it.
Would be fairer for the working staff to have furloughed staff not accrue, but what if a furloughed person had a big holiday booked for Dec? Or now furlough is extended to allow rotation. There will always be winners and losers.
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
My lad got a call from his manager today. He bricked it.
But...
He's coming off furlough tomorrow.... luckily to go back to work but working from home for now.
I'm relieved on multiple fronts.
Just hope his company can weather the coming storm. Let's face it, this is just the start of the global downturn.😟
Sorry guys, don't know what happened there!
Did he get a lot of calls? 😀
^ I think the site bricked it as well as my lad.😆
Practically though – imagine the furlough scheme runs through to the end of September. Do you expect everybody to get all of their accrued holiday allowance to use in the three months before the end of the year?
As above Scot Routes, the rules are assuming the company agrees annual leave can be carried for up to two years. There's no need for it to be removed, and its quite clear in the gov.uk rules it should continue to accrue.
This isn't about her having time off to get her nails done as perhaps your post implies. We rely on this time for her to perform childcare duties during summer school hols. Other parts of the summer holiday they go to kids camps but we can't afford and wouldn't want for them to be in Kids camp for the whole six weeks. Add to that, at the moment she's on 80% pay and I'm effectively on 50% looking at no more than 75%, and we will have a struggle to find the extra days of somehow looking after the kids while they are off school.
This may now be mitigated by the Furlough extension - if She's off until September at least she's there to cover the gap. But if they call her back got work in July and insist she goes back with 50% pro rata'd leave as they believe they are allowed to restrict (they aren't) we have a problem, because she's just lost 7 of those days she has previously save up and had booked in August.
Whilst furloughed they’re essentially unemployed
They are actually still employed and are being paid by their employer
Normally... Now is not normal. You're quite right, I should have been clearer.
I'd be interested to see the actual advice though as my Google foo is failing me.
... the company agree to it.
I see, so they can agree without allowing it?
because she’s just lost 7 of those days she has previously save up
If she's already accrued the holiday they can't take it off off her, furlough and symantics aside. She can take holiday for existing allowance if she wishes* (currently under the scheme) - for which she should be paid at full rate, not the 80%.
*I don't believe she's entitled to cancel existing holiday bookings just because she's on furlough but then it's full pay for those periods and it's not to say she can't cancel it just that there's no legal entitlement for her to do so
Good news. Means my company (events industry) might survive. If we’d have been kicked off Furlough in June with an empty order book until public gatherings are allowed again we’d have been dead in minutes.
It would make sense for them to taper it at different rates by different industries when they come to fading it out, as some industries are going to recover at different rates. Anything involving lots of people crammed in close proximity is going to have to wait for a vaccine / all the old people to have been killed off via Cumming's Herd Immunity strategy.
I see, so they can agree without allowing it?
I think its like normal with extra supported government rules - you could ask or be asked if you can carry holiday over to the next 24 months period, to avoid the issue Scotroutes alludes to I believe, yet I may be wrong in that both parties need to agree.
If she’s already accrued the holiday they can’t take it off off her,
There is where we have an issue. The company are currently stating that when an employee re-starts working their holiday will be pro-rata'd e.g July 1st = 50% entitlement, September = 25% entitlement regardless of what you had "in the bank" before you were furloughed. In Mrs K's case she worked to May 7th, has taken 2 days off so will lose 7 upon her return which she would normally accrue between Jan & August. 7 days we need to cover the kids off school...
Quite a bit of useful stuff here:-
https://www.cipd.co.uk/news-views/coronavirus/faqs/furlough
CIPD is the go to place for HR professionals to get advice and whilst employercentric are usually pretty spot on.
There is where we have an issue...
So let me check in reading this correctly (I'm going to pick numbers that work easily, sorry)
Your wife has worked (not on furlough) 4 full months this year then in furlough from beginning May to ???
Holiday runs Jan to Jan?
Assume 27 days leave pa
That's 9 days accrued leave (27/12*4)
She's taken 2 days leave.
Her employer is saying she losses the 7 days she's already accrued (9-2)
She'll then be given a holiday entitlement of 13.5 days for the rest of the year if she starts back 01/07, 7 days of she starts back 01/09 and so on.
Not EXTRA to her 7 but only that?
From my link - it might be that they have required her to take the leave during the furlough....turns out that is a thing.
Q: Can employers require furloughed employees to use up their holiday leave during furlough?
Yes, employers can require furloughed employees to use up their take holiday leave during furlough. Employers may want to do this to reduce outstanding annual leave to be taken once the lockdown ends and businesses return to normal.
Standard employment law provisions (which are not frequently used) state that employers can require force workers to take holiday as long as they give twice as many days’ notice as the period of leave the worker is required to take. For example, if the employer requires the worker to take two week's annual leave at a certain time, it must give the worker at least four weeks' advance notice (or whatever is outlined in the employment contract).
So, an employer could furlough the employee and require a proportion of that to be annual holiday as long as the requisite notice is given. Insisting an employee take annual leave during a period of furlough, when government advice prevents them from travelling freely anywhere, is not without risk. The employees’ agreement should therefore be sought to take annual leave while on furlough. Employees may agree as it would be on full pay.
Our company have given us back our bank holidays and shutdown week we should have taken during furlough. Some to be taken this year, some added to next year's allowance.
Reading between the lines, I don't think we'll be busy for the next year or two, so extra time off for staff will be welcome!
I've been pondering a scenario today.... I came off furlough after the first 3 weeks and have been back in work for 4 weeks now running the department on my own and will probably remain this way for the next month or two. I replaced an employee who wasn't performing and to be fair have worked bloody hard but managed the work load and done a decent job..imo and been well praised by management. Thing is that it's almost a given that we will loose a shed load of staff when furlough ends. There are 5 in my dept and I'm sure it will be reduced to 2 or 3. My manager and the longest serving member of staff are both furloughed (medical reasons) and I was brought in as I'm local to the office and have a lot of experience....but, when and if cuts are made I was hoping that my performance during the furlough period would put me in good stead but I have a nagging feeling I will be for the chop as I was the last in (less than a year) and have found out (during a drunken work night out) that I'm on considerably more money than everyone else in the dept...Inc the manager. So I got to wondering how many people will have worked their arses off as the surviving members of the work force for several months keeping the ship affloat so to speak only to be told that their job is gone when the Furloughed boys come back!!
Just paranoia I guess but when the financial crunch really hits them a high salary and no redundancy to pay out makes me the obvious candidate to go.
Just paranoia I guess but when the financial crunch really hits them a high salary and no redundancy to pay out makes me the obvious candidate to go.
if the priority was saving money they'd have left you on furlough and brought the tea boy back to answer the phones and read the mail. Presumably the fact they are paying you (rather than the government paying you 80%) means they think you have something to offer right now, and I would expect if you've put in the graft now continue to think that. I don't think many places use last-in-first-out principles anymore, where I am redundancy is used as a way to weed out the people who have been there for 10 yrs and have got lazy or ineffective, especially if they don't like change.
Finally heard from my work, looks like I might be coming off furlough in the next couple of weeks fingers crossed.
Haven't used any annual leave this year but my allowance has been reduced to 50%. Can't grumble though, actually excited at the thought of going back!
Haven’t used any annual leave this year but my allowance has been reduced to 50%
Hmmm, this is becoming common. A loophole perhaps?
Anyone on here taken a second job whilst on furlough?
It's allowed under the rules and my employer allows it provided I keep my manager informed of shifts via email. Looks like I've got a job at the local supermarket, it's only shelf stacking/tills/warehouse work but it's money coming in rather than me sat at home spending it! Are there any bits of paperwork/HMRC rules etc I need to be aware of? Don't want to cock it up as it could have implications for my main job.
Haven’t used any annual leave this year but my allowance has been reduced to 50%.
My place tried that, the union shot them down.
I'm back to work as of yesterday and off Furlough. I had to go through redundancy consultations over the last couple weeks but got the call Thursday last week that I was needed back to work. Working from home for the time being but will be back onsite once the Scottish government says that building sites can open again.
Thanks for all the informative contributions. Hopefully you'll all be back at work sooner rather than later.
My wife had a generic email that basically said: "Those of you are on Furlough are still on Furlough until July 31st. She turned up at her team meeting today to find the student asked to cover her job hated it, keeps making mistakes and doesn't want to do it any more, and her Manager said to her, "what, you mean you aren't coming back Thursday?"
She put the phone (well, Teams) down and went out for a bike ride with the kids.