funeral advice please

Sorry for your loss, this is a probably a good place to start - https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments

We looked into it for my uncle but we didn't meet the criteria.

Having just gone through this like last week,

If the money isn't there then the state will cover it. Don't panic.

If there is no will then there is no onus on anyone to pay for anything.

The coroner may or may not be involved depending on circumstances. This is outside of your control. Either way there will be a death certificate and you can't do the square root of shit until you have that. Once you're told that's been issued then it's a conversation with the registrar.

Feel free to DM me / ring me if it might help. It's a shite thing to deal with. Sorry for your loss.

Oh, and,

get all your other ducks in a row before telling the bank. They'll shut down the account and money can no longer come in. That's been fun. British Gas are going to send me a cheque for £500 addressed to my mum which I then have to send back before they can reissue it in my name. Cunch of bunts.

If the money isn’t there then the state will cover it. Don’t panic.

If there is no will then there is no onus on anyone to pay for anything.

ok i understand that, but..... your mum in a paupers grave?  doesnt sit well when we spend so much on holidays, so i think we'd prefer to forego a future holiday than not send her off in a respectful way.

i didnt even think about a will tbh, we just assume not as sadly she'd got herself in such a state as to have nothing to give :-/

thanks for the offer, ill message you later.

cheers

EDIT:  just seen your second message.  bank account irrelevant really i think for the above reason, not even sure she paid the bills.

In terms of hard practicalities, my Dad's funeral in April 2021 cost £1,600. That was for funeral home, hearse (no family car or trip to the house) and then a simple cremation. I think the vicar was another £200 cash in hand 🙄. That was with the co-op. Don't be persuaded or tempted by all the bells and whistles if you don't want them.

Sorry for your trouble.

Having been through it in the last year if you have a good undertaker they will guide you through the process, it’s part of their role to assist you with the practicalities. Find one you are happy with, go and visit them as soon as practicable and they will talk you through it all. They will also help with knowledge of availability of slots at local crematoriums or graveyards. Round here registration also has to be booked rather than just pitch up but they will know the score there. Our one knew local florists, the local priests and even recommended somewhere for the wake.

Be aware that a lot of independent shops are all owned by Dignity - not necessarily an issue but there are less and less small family firms around.

We had real problems with the registration because  GP was absolutely dreadful and we had to go in to the surgery five days in a row to get him to do his bloody job and sign a form so we could register the death. In the end the surgery staff seemed embarrassed by his inactivity and eventually just interrupted his appointment to get him to sign the form.The knock on was my father died looking rough but the undertaker could do anything until they had the form and it was getting close to the stage when he would not have been suitable for a viewing.

ok i understand that, but….. your mum in a paupers grave? doesnt sit well when we spend so much on holidays, so i think we’d prefer to forego a future holiday than not send her off in a respectful way.

A 'pauper's grave' ain't all that paupery. I was offered choices like "would you like to upgrade the handles?" Why, so you can set fire to brass instead of steel? I can hear my mum yelling at me from here about pissing money up the wall and generally making a fuss. You'll get a decent service however you slice it.

i didnt even think about a will tbh, we just assume not as sadly she’d got herself in such a state as to have nothing to give :-/

It's worth checking for. Any "inheritance" or lack thereof aside, it makes shit a whole lot more straight-forward if she left instructions.

Sorry for your loss.
Based on Cougar's comments, you would probably benefit from talking with him about the process.
I would endorse kilo's suggestion about finding and talking to a good undertaker.
The most important thing you can do, IMO, is to be strong for your wife.

To save money you can have cremations done at night with no ceremony, no hearse etc.

My mum died in hospital and they had a brilliant office (bereavement centre?) that got the ball rolling, the registrar's office will be able to advise too. Officialdom was pretty good all told, except the bank. Good advice above that if there is any money at all get it out to settle bills etc before you remember to tell them.

This may help.

Sorry for your loss.

You do not have to follow the standard pattern of a service in the crematorium chapel   followed by the body being cremated.

You do have the option of the body being collected with out ceremony and cremated, and then family and friends  having a service separately  in a church ,  or a non religious gathering  in a place of your choice , if that is more appropriate for your family.

If you go and see a funeral director with out thinking what you really want you may get guided down the conventional route.

Wise to get some price lists from funeral directors so you can choose what best fits your family circumstances.

Mrs TJs funeral was £875 - the cheapest I could get.  Her wishes - once a yorkshire lass..........

I just handed over the body and got a bag of ashes back two weeks later which have been chucked - I mean scattered with all due reverence - all over the place

The key thing is what would MIL have wanted?  A pal had the full on plumed horses etc but thats not cheap.  I much prefer a memorial service of some sort to a crem funeral - thats what we did for Mrs TJ - a picnic in the mountains.  If she wanted to be buried you should do that.

As kilo has mentioned, speak to an undertaker, as this is what they deal with everyday.

They'll advise you of the processes involved, what options are available, and likely have recommendations for anything else you're likely to need.

In Scotland a cremation without a service is typically called a direct cremation. The undertaker will collect the body, deliver it to the crematorium, then give you a call once they have the ashes ready for collection.

I know someone who's partner died last year, and he opted for a direct cremation, but with a small service in the undertaker's chapel first.

My sympathies to your wife, awful time. Find an indy Funeral Director, they will help you with every aspect of the choices available to you, including grants. Use the government's Tell us Once service they're brilliant. As said, nothing happens until you get the death certificate. Don't worry, the professionals will look after you, save your worries for your wife she's what matters. Best wishes.

Sorry for your loss my dad passed away in March, find a good undertaker and they take a lot of the stress away and check out the tell once service and they will notify the council and sort out any of the benefits so that they all get stopped, we had issues getting the death certificate as the doctor put the wrong date on it then went on holiday.

The undertakers have lots of options to control, the costs, for reference dads was about  £5,500.

if you have any questions don’t be afraid to ask the undertaker they have the experience.

Best wishes

One thing to keep an eye out for is when the last benefits payment was, they came asking for my the last one back as my Dad died at the start of the month they didn't feel he needed it. I showed that this his bank account didn't even cover the cost of the funeral and cremation, they backed off after that. Still 6 months after the funeral it's not a letter you want trying to claw back money that's already gone.

Also used co-op for the funeral, weird thing, you get co-op points in relation to the cost, adds up to a decent amount of free sweets, got to look on the positive side right?

Mrs TJs funeral was £875 – the cheapest I could get. Her wishes – once a yorkshire lass……….

I cremated my mum relatively 'on the cheap,' it was pushing five grand.

Sorry for your loss, this is a probably a good place to start – https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments

We looked into it for my uncle but we didn’t meet the criteria.

just had a look thanks, and pretty sure we wouldnt qualify as nowhere near the threshold of needing to claim benefits.  thanks tho.

Be aware that a lot of independent shops are all owned by Dignity – not necessarily an issue but there are less and less small family firms around.

sorry, who are Dignity?  a quick google suggests a nationwide company, so is this a 'bad thing'?  do you mean theyre a sort of franchise undertakers, so less personal?  more expensive?

A ‘pauper’s grave’ ain’t all that paupery. I was offered choices like “would you like to upgrade the handles?” Why, so you can set fire to brass instead of steel? I can hear my mum yelling at me from here about pissing money up the wall and generally making a fuss. You’ll get a decent service however you slice it.

ok, we'll also look into this.  she was the sort of person who would have said the same, and wouldnt really care what happened once she'd gone.

It’s worth checking for. Any “inheritance” or lack thereof aside, it makes shit a whole lot more straight-forward if she left instructions.

she'd been in a bad way with her demons for a good few years and we're fairly sure she wouldnt have even considered a will, but how would we find out?  if there isnt one in her possessions when we clear the house then i assume theres no way of knowing without contacting all the solicitors in town and asking them?  no central register i assume?

The most important thing you can do, IMO, is to be strong for your wife.

thats a given 🙂

thanks to all those giving us the 'tell us once' advice, that looks a really helpful service.

The key thing is what would MIL have wanted?

i think the least fuss/expense possible, as would i when i go (are you reading this mrs ex-punk?)

thanks also for the suggestions of night cremations, direct cremations etc, all food for thought.

cheers

<p style="text-align: left;">Horrible time best wishes my friend</p>

<p style="text-align: left;">As mentioned direct funerals are the least costly, various kinds are available sometimes straight from the hospital if appropriate.</p>
Often early at the crematorium short service 15m approx.

Depending on the Crematorium no family or friends are allowed at directs, but the funeral team will sit in at pay respects as will the Crem ceromony support officer so she will not be alone, and music will be played this happens where i work, really nice touch i feel.

As mentioned, dignity and many other huge corps own independents however quite often the original family or owner still run the buisiness so you can still get personal service.

Use a cardboard coffin, all handles and name plates are plastic on wood coffins so dont pay for any brass/steel options.

Contrary to popular belief you will get the ashes of your family member and not just some ashes.

With regards to scattering please think carfully where you do this if you do it,  if you are environmentally sensitive but not  aware of ashes scattering issues please look into it before scattering, especially in sensitive areas, which are often the most popular.

Take care look after yourself and your wife first and formost.

When my wife died last year, she was in a hospice at the end, so cause of death was given by the Medical Examiner & they sent a form to the hospice, where I picked it up & took it to the registry office for death certificates to be issued. From there the ‘green form’ was sent to my choice of funeral director. Or was it the other way round? Can’t quite remember, obviously I wasn’t thinking straight at the time.

tell us once service is excellent.

Helen’s cremation was about £2800 If I remember correctly; hearse and one limo to my sorry our house, then on to the crematorium & on to the wake afterwards. Flowers also included in that price. This is in Bradford so your prices may be different. If you’re anywhere near here then I recommend Gateway Funeral Services in Birkenshaw

With regards to scattering please think carfully where you do this if you do it, if you are environmentally sensitive but not aware of ashes scattering issues please look into it before scattering, especially in sensitive areas, which are often the most popular.

Mrs TJ was very aware of this so told me only to scatter token amounts.  Very good dear. What do I do with the rest?  You get kilos?  In the bin behind sainsburys? 🙂

i assume theres no way of knowing without contacting all the solicitors in town and asking them?  no central register i assume?

I understand most solicitors register wills here -

https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

Contrary to popular belief you will get the ashes of your family member and not just some ashes.

You sure about that?

Cougar, Yes very very sure from my experience.

This thread is not the place for anything else apart from to help the op.

OP: I helped a family friend arrange transport of their parent back to their home country. IMVHO the most valuable thing you can do is be really calm and practical while your wife is upset. Ask "how much is that, how long does that make, how does this process work, who goes next?" and so on. People who are grieving closely won't think to ask, and lots of people get embarrassed around death. Be direct and polite with the "pros" - you won't shock them, they do this all day. And don't be afraid to compare and negotiate prices. You do hear some stories about the hard sell but everyone was totally straight with me (as far as I could tell).

Sometimes you'll want to have that conversation without your wife as it seems a bit mercenary. Just tell them "thanks for explaining the options, I'll call back later once my wife has had a think, and you and I can discuss the practicalities".

Good luck, OP.

You sure about that?

+1 ehwhome, now's not the place but absolutely. If you want to be sure https://www.cremation.org.uk/Frequently-Asked-Questions but take it away from this thread.

My good friend from school is one of the family firms in my home town, nearly 2 centuries and 7 generations, so you can still find good indies if you want one. OTOH I went to a Co-Op funeral earlier this year and it was a perfectly well done and pleasant (as can be) service they provided, even if 'the CoOp' sounds like the corner shop.

As many others have said, a difficult time but trust in a recommended / well reviewed undertaker that will guide you through all that is needed. It's what they do, literally 24-7-365.

[also fwiw, prices are negotiable within reason as PCA says, also worth noting is that funeral directors have to publish their prices in a standard type of format so you can compare price lists directly]

When my Dad passed my Mum wanted a simple funeral - so just the local family and a crematorium.

£1200 all-in including the 'Rev' from memory, and no need for any cars/hearse as the Funeral Director arranged for his body to be at the crematorium for when we arrived.

A note, when you go to register the death, get a couple of extra death certs at that point otherwise if you need more they're very expensive after the event.

You have to register the death within 5 days, the registrar will then give you a code and you can use this code online (gov.uk) with Tell Us Once, this informs HMRC, DWP, Local Council, Blue Badge and Passport Office all in one go, used it yesterday and its really easy to use, hope this helps.

A note, when you go to register the death, get a couple of extra death certs at that point otherwise if you need more they’re very expensive after the event.

good advice, cheers

You have to register the death within 5 days,

we dont know when she died, that timeframe may already have passed, but i suppose we can only do what we can do, so we'll just await coroners report and register it when we get the certificate.

thanks

My mum's was about 3k. Hearse + 2 family cars, church service and a cremation.

Used the local family run undertakers and they were excellent, handling all of the paperwork. No messing about.

Sorry for your loss sadexpunk

I would speak to a local funeral home or two, when I worked at coop the funeral guys were cirtainly the nicest people in the company and deal with this kinda stuff all the time.

In recent experience you'll need cause of death from doctor/hospice/coroner/hospital which is usually sent directly to registrar before you can book appointment to register a death, in Buckinghamshire the registrar will give you a code for using the tell us once service.

With regard to keeping the price of a funeral manageable, the registrar may be best placed to tell you, cremation will certainly be cheaper than burial but you certainly don't need all the bells & whistles from a funeral directors.

Money can still be paid into a deceased persons account, but there is a strict hierarchy of who gets paid first if their assets don't cover out standing bills, so do not pay off anyone until that is all figured out and do inform the bank asap as it's the date of death figures that matter.

Sorry to be so matter of fact over the passing of your mil, sounds complicated if you don't know cause or date of death 😕 I hope you get it sorted okay and remember look after yourselves.

I found all the bereavement teams at bank, utilities etc v helpful.  The accounts are frozen so will become in the name of executors.

When you have the death certificate you can go in person to bank and get the process going, take your id.  Ditto utilities.

Sorry for your loss.

Firstly, sorry for your loss.

When my dad died a couple of years ago he had a direct cremation as per his wishes. Might not be everyone's cup of tea. No service/coffin/cars/no ashes to dispose of (you can get them if you want). Taken from the morgue and cremated  thats it. Not 100% on the cost but it was similar to what TJ said, maybe about £1000 ( my mum paid so not sure). When my mum dies, a direct cremation is her wish too.

well it took longer than expected to get the coroners report,  it was pretty sad reading really, but......thats not why im here, id just like you to be able to put our minds at ease please.

MIL died without a will, and not enough money to cover funeral, and in the end with a bit of clubbing together we raised enough for a decent send-off.  wife was in charge of finances, she had her bank balance transferred over to her personal account last week, and then settled pension and PIP balances from when she'd been paid after her death still.  there was a couple of hundred left over which she split with her sister.

however, we've just been contacted by a residential home that MIL went into for a good few months to 'dry out'.

sorry for your loss, i knew your mum quite well and got friendly with her etc etc, but then she hit my wife with the fact that her mum owes money for being in there. 

"well theres no money so you cant take whats not there"

"oh, i dont know where we go from here, i'll have to report this back to my manager"

"off you trot then, theres no money to pay you"

then yesterday, a follow up phone call asking for proof by way of MILs bank statement.

my wife had a bit of a shouty shout at her, told her not to bother her again and hung up.

now am i right that we cant be held liable for her debt, if there even was a debt?  MIL was on benefits (PIP) and so wouldnt have been expected to pay for her care would she?   and even if so, that would/should have been sorted at the time?  im guessing she left the residential home and moved into a council bungalow around 6 months before passing.

to me this sounds unreasonable from them, or, are they just doing their job, and checking that MIL didnt have a big pot of cash to pay for her care.  im just surprised that they dont know her situation at the time i suppose.

im pretty sure we arent liable to pay for this care, but would just like some confirmation from here please.

thank you for all your advice through this.

I belive it should be free if she doesnt have many assets...

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/
Theres a phone number on this webpage, they should be able to point you in the right direction.

It would/should have been sorted at the time, but if it wasn't then you may have to do it retrospectivley, or they can and will chase the next of kin for it as there was no will.

TBH I can't blame them for asking (so long as they do so reasonably and politely), but it's clear enough that there's no money to pay, so <shrug>.

You can't inherit debts and can't have a liability for anything she signed up to unless you were acting as a guarantor at the time. You can't chase someone for a debt just because they happen to be related to the debtor!

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/
Theres a phone number on this webpage, they should be able to point you in the right direction.

no luck there, live chat said 'ring this number', but 'all our staff are busy please ring later'.

You can’t inherit debts and can’t have a liability for anything she signed up to unless you were acting as a guarantor at the time. You can’t chase someone for a debt just because they happen to be related to the debtor!

phew!  that was the fear.

thanks

You can’t inherit debts and can’t have a liability for anything she signed up to unless you were acting as a guarantor at the time. You can’t chase someone for a debt just because they happen to be related to the debtor!

This is true, but if there is cash in the estate then there could, in theory, be a claim to it.

MIL died without a will, and not enough money to cover funeral, and in the end with a bit of clubbing together we raised enough for a decent send-off.  wife was in charge of finances, she had her bank balance transferred over to her personal account last week, and then settled pension and PIP balances from when she’d been paid after her death still.  there was a couple of hundred left over which she split with her sister.

This is the messy bit 👆 If there wasn't enough money in the estate to pay for the funeral, how did your wife end up splitting the couple of hundred left over?

I genuinely don't think there is anything to worry about, but if there is a valid claim, you need to get your story straight about whether there was or wasn't anything left over.

This is the messy bit 👆 If there wasn’t enough money in the estate to pay for the funeral, how did your wife end up splitting the couple of hundred left over?

we paid for the funeral beforehand out of our own pockets, then when the bank balance was finally transferred to my wife, she paid out the pension and PIP deficits and then split a couple of hundred between them.  but in reality i suppose it was our money anyway that had already paid for it.  in short, the funeral and pension/PIP deficits were greater than her final bank balance.

but youre right it does appear to be messy doesnt it.

if legally we have to prove this then i suppose we could show the care home the bank statement, debt letters from pension and PIP, and the funeral invoice, but we just felt they were out of order, so we wont if we're not legally obliged to.

just out of hypothetical interest, what would have happened if say she'd had a lottery win after coming out of the care home?  at the time of needing care she'd have been skint, so would she still have had to pay care fees retrospectively?

What oldtennisshoes said; if there was not enough cash for a funeral then how was there a few hundred to split with sister.  What steps did wife and sister take in administering the estate to establish all the assets and debts before distributing the proceeds?

IF wife and SIL covered say £4K of funeral costs, then got a few hundred each to reimburse them - then this is probably ok as funeral costs should be settled first by the estate.  But having moved the money from MIL to wife’s account before doing the distribution to benefits agency and sister has made a bit of a mess of what could have been really simple - show bank statement with payment to funeral director and the refunds to benefits agency and nothing left.

I have no idea if she should have been liable for the payment in the first place.  

we paid for the funeral beforehand out of our own pockets, then when the bank balance was finally transferred to my wife, she paid out the pension and PIP deficits and then split a couple of hundred between them.  but in reality i suppose it was our money anyway that had already paid for it.  in short, the funeral and pension/PIP deficits were greater than her final bank balance.
but youre right it does appear to be messy doesnt it.<br /><br />

Just get it straight in your head - you paid for the funeral up front yourselves, once you had access to the account you paid back what PIP and Pension was overpaid. The balance was then less than what you'd paid for the funeral. There wasn't really an extra couple of hundred to split as you were owed it for the funeral.

<br />just out of hypothetical interest, what would have happened if say she’d had a lottery win after coming out of the care home?  at the time of needing care she’d have been skint, so would she still have had to pay care fees retrospectively?<br /><br /><br />

This depends on what was agreed when she went into the care home. If social services were involved then there should have been an affordability assessment - I'm paraphrasing, but she would have been asked how much cash she had etc. and if she didn't have enough and carers in her own home weren't an option then SS would have offered a care home place. If that assessment didn't happen and assumptions were made then it's less clear who would be on the hook.<br />One thing to consider though is that she may not have been eligible for some of her benefits if SS was paying for a care home for her. <br />Much of this is, however, academic as ultimately, she had no money so there is nothing to be claimed.

Just get it straight in your head – you paid for the funeral up front yourselves, once you had access to the account you paid back what PIP and Pension was overpaid. The balance was then less than what you’d paid for the funeral. There wasn’t really an extra couple of hundred to split as you were owed it for the funeral.

yes, thats correct.  the funeral cost more than what was in MILs account.
we did it this way as we had to.  it took months for the estate to be transferred to wife when the bank released the funds (a week or so ago).  we couldnt leave it that long to have the funeral as im sure youd agree?

One thing to consider though is that she may not have been eligible for some of her benefits if SS was paying for a care home for her.

no idea, we just paid the PIP amount that the SS told us to, so hopefully theyd have that correct.

EDIT:  i suppose ive made this more confusing to understand due to me including the info about splitting the rest of the balance.   i should have just said we used it to partly reimburse our original outlay.

If there was money in the estate it should have cleared the existing debts before anything was passed on (including the payment of funeral expenses). Of course it's difficult if the executors don't know about the debts! But if the executor spent the deceased's money on the funeral, and then finds there was an uncleared debt, they may be liable for that.

There is a strict hierarchy of debt when dealing with an estate of someone who has passed away with insufficient funds to cover funeral costs and debts. Reasonable funeral costs are second in line after secured credit (car loan mortgage etc), I would imagine that care home is unsecured debt so if there is nothing left or -ve ££ after funeral costs then they are not due anything, but it is not unreasonable for them to ask you to prove that that is the case.

Edit- thecaptain is incorrect only secured debts should be paid before funeral & estate administration costs.

But if the executor spent the deceased’s money on the funeral, and then finds there was an uncleared debt, they may be liable for that.

see we were told the opposite, funeral expenses first, the rest later.

@Dickyboy, typing at the same time, thank you.

Having just started going through this and having a few solicitors and accountants in the family the general rule is this:

Outstanding debts first including any DWP repayments.
Funeral costs second.
Family last.

I've set up a separate account to deal with all the costs, just a current account in my name but you can get an Executor's Account, all bills are processed through that and documented. What was left of my dad's assets were transferred into it directly and any bills are either paid out directly or a payment to the person who paid the bill is done, everything is documented with references and receipts are kept safe. This way my finances are kept separate and it's easy to see what the state of play is, especially if the estate won't cover the whole lot. I have had it lucky as there's enough to cover everything plus a decent bit left over so I haven't had to worry about paying anything, just had to keep costs under control.

If I was you I'd gather all the bills and costs paid out with documentation and create a spreadsheet of it all, that way you can show where every penny has gone. You will be in a much better position then to know exactly what you owe or otherwise.

But if the executor spent the deceased’s money on the funeral, and then finds there was an uncleared debt, they may be liable for that.

They can be if they can be proven to have acted against the will or to have benefitted in any way. As long as you are not completely incompetent at it it's unlikely a debtor will come after you as the vast majority of people undertaking the Executor role are not experts at finances. This obviously changes if they are a professional like an accountant etc. The key part is that they have to be able to demonstrate they they have enacted the wishes in the will and distributed the resultant Estate of the deceased correctly to the best of their knowledge and abilities.

Funeral expenses must be proportionate to the estate taking account of debts.

What that means in practice is not clear to me, but if the funeral costs ate up the entirety of the cash in the estate when the estate additionally had a few k of debts, I wouldn't be surprised to find that money clawed back regardless of priorities of debts.

If an estate had 10k of cash but 20k of debts, I doubt you would get away with spending all the 10k on the funeral, paying the costs out of the estate and sticking two fingers up to the creditors as a lower priority claim on the estate.

yep, was just pondering on this, wondering how it would all be assessed, not that its relevant here.

and no real need for a spreadsheet either.  we have a (low key) funeral invoice, a request for PIP and a request for pension repayments, thats it.

thanks

Before any of the debts are paid, you are first allowed to cover any funeral expenses and the costs involved in the administration of the estate.

Above quoted direct from moneyhelper website part of the UK money & pension service, and yes funeral costs must be reasonable, so blowing all £10k in the example above would not be acceptable but spending an at or below average funeral cost would seem as reasonable.

It doesn't seem at all clear to me that average funeral costs would be seen as reasonable if the estate was insolvent. I mean, on the face of it, average costs would seem reasonable for an average estate, and if the stipulation of proportionate to the estate is supposed to mean anything surely it would imply that an insolvent estate should have a rather cheaper than average funeral.

The precise wording on the NBS website is "Funeral expenses must be reasonable and proportionate to the size of the estate taking into account likely debts. For example, you can’t spend £6000 of a £7000 estate on the funeral if there are debts of several thousands of pounds."

I've no idea what a court might decide however.

and no real need for a spreadsheet either.

Actually I'd suggest thats exactly what you should have had and it can still be done now to make a clean way of showing what money there was and where it went.  Might even be what the "manager" was asking for "a statement of account" rather than the bank statement.  It could even be done by pen and paper but a s/sheet will do the arithmetic for you and makes it easy to add a new line when some new creditor appears:
It just looks something like this:
ASSETS
1. Heritable Property £ 0.00 [houses etc]

1. Barclays current account (Acc# 12345) £ 3,424.12

2. Post Office account (Acc# 98865) £ 101.50

3. Premium Bonds (Acc# 90890) £ 50.00

4. Shares (BT x 100@£1.26) £ 126.00

5. Movable Property (Schedule A) £ 250.00

6. Cash £ 23.62

=====

Total Assets £ 3,951.62

LIABILITIES

1. Funeral expenses (Coop funeral services, Inv# 543) £ 2,600.00

2. Cremation cost (XY Borough Council, Inv# 324) £ 985.00

3. Department of Social Security (payments received after death, Notice ref XXX) £ 1435.00

4. Credit card (acc# 123456) £ 123.50

5. Utlitiy bills (EON, acc#45677) £205.20

=====

Total Liabilities £ 5225.20

NET ASSETS

Total Assets Less Total Liabilities  -£ 1273.58

Therefore the estate is insolvent<

Signed XXX (and XXX)

Administrator(s) of the estate.

I think it is important to list cash, and moveable estate as very few people would have literally nothing.  If I saw a statement that didn't itemise that I'd wonder what else you had forgotten.  Equally though you can list costs like paying someone to clear a house, hiring a skip etc.
That is what I have done in the past.  Nobody has ever asked for the detail / backup behind it, but I think it would possible for someone to ask you to back up claims.   In Scotland you would ultimately take this (for a small estate) to the Sheriff Clerk who would issue the Statement of Confirmation which you usually need to get any cash out of the accounts (theres an HMRC form that needs this information completing).  I sent a "provisional" statement like that to all the various banks/cards/utilities etc with a copy of the death certificate and asked for details of any other assets they were aware of etc.  Then at the end I sent them the same again with all the extra debts added, estimated values of assets turned into final values etc.  I appreciate that probably seems a bit anal and abit of a PITA for someone who is grieving but its kind of important you get it right - imagine if you were a creditor who was not aware of a death, and then someone inherits a stack of cash and you get nothing.

yes, thats correct.  the funeral cost more than what was in MILs account.<br />we did it this way as we had to.  it took months for the estate to be transferred to wife when the bank released the funds (a week or so ago).  we couldnt leave it that long to have the funeral as im sure youd agree?

The funeral director may not have volunteered this information but they are quite used to waiting for payment and know the issues involved.  Now they may want guarantees that they will eventually get paid but that didn't mean you needed to actually pay in cash before the estate was liquidated.  Banks know the funeral gets paid first so if you manage to talk to the right person can be persuaded to pay them with a copy of the invoice.  All the big banks have a team specially to deal with relatives of the deceased, and in my experience they are pretty good.  Not much help to you now - but might help someone else reading this.  <br /><br />I'd suggest its really important that your wife uses the right languge when talking to potential claimants.  "months for the estate to be transferred to wife" will sound like your wife got a chunk of money.  She wants to be saying that the estate was insolvent and there were no funds to distribute.

very comprehensive advice @poly, and i'll take it.

much appreciated, thank you.

When my dad died his CC account debt was written off by CC company. ...should've stuck a new bike on it before I told them 😀