[Closed] fuel prices?

Still too cheap, much too cheap as demonstrated by how quickly the North Sea reserves have been squandered.

You don't need a car. You have chosen to have one, etc etc etc.
There thats saved TJ a job. 😉

maybe i should run for cover then?

Surely it's been that expensive for ages though? If it's too expensive for you, have you considered adapting your daily life so you use less fuel?

So what's the alternative? Oh that's right... Rail travel at the highest price per passenger kilometre in Europe.

So long as this government remains addicted to the revenues from fuel duty this situation won't change.

BTW, what the heck is "rediculous"?

maybe i should buy a hand cart like builders used to use before cars/vans. its hard enough to find work as it is without have to struggle to get all your essentials there when you get it.

sorry ridiculous its been a long time since i left school 😉

Oh it's cheap enough initially, summink like 18-20p a litre maybe. (I used to be able to work it out from $ prices per barrel when i owned a petrol station) but when you add duty, vat, & BP & Shells £billions profit, then it gets dear. I know someon'e gonna say 'well theyr'e oil company's, they have to show a return on their investment/exploration etc, but they do show a profit, massive at that.

So what's the alternative? Oh that's right... Rail travel at the highest price per passenger kilometre in Europe.

Personally speaking, the train is cheaper than just the petrol cost for the one distance journey I do on a semi-regular basis. Short journeys doable by bike. Large things to carry = taxi or lift from a mate.

All you have to do to register your protest is start boycotting petrol stations.
As long as people use fuel and depend on it, they, whoever they are, can charge what they want. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Simple.
I'll believe its too expensive when people stop driving about because they can't afford it.

I thought we hadn't had one of these threads for a while.....

[Personally speaking, the train is cheaper than just the petrol cost for the one distance journey I do on a semi-regular basis. Short journeys doable by bike. Large things to carry = taxi or lift from a mate.]

What train journey is cheaper than driving?

What about those who live to far to commute by bike every day, and its much cheaper than our wonderful rail network when its on time or even running!

Better yet start boycotting any political party who refuses to put cheap public transport at the centre of their policy.

Yes! I am going to get rid of my car (in an environmentally-sensitive way) and then, because I won't be able to go on caravan holidays in the UK, I shall fly everywhere! (insert tongue-in-cheek emoticon here)

I had an email exchange with Nick Clegg on this subject; he is proposing basically to price people off the road, note: not [i]entice[/i] by providing affordable, pleasant and convenient public transport, oh no, he's going to do it by making it even more damn expensive to drive.

I asked him how he thought I could tow the caravan behind a train (once he has priced me off the road) - he did not reply to this question.

To the OP, my friend is a kitchen fitter, he has to drive a van to carry all his tools - higher fuel prices eat directly into his wages.

RichPenny - cheaper by train? Which journey is that?

I had a similar email exchange with Nick Clegg a while back too, I explained that his policy had cost him my vote.

As I said, politicians will continue to get away with it so long as we let them. I will accept higher costs of motoring provided that there is an alternative.

fuel costs eat into my already low wages

you have to keep prices down at the minute to get work

thats is exactly what gets my goat

 

no way is train fares cheaper!

taxis are even more expensive!

9 mile journey to town is £12.... £12 i could drive that journey 20x easy by my car.

fuel is stupidly expensive. here in Austria is 120cent / liter.

in gran canaria when i worked there last year was 65cent so all those reserves drying up... that dont hope 😉

I think its time to make a stand against excessive living, not the price of it!

I hope the high prices deter rediculas car use - like my parents driving half a mile to the shop! I hate having to use my car for commuting (broken leg + 36 mile each way) and I didn't want a job so far away - I'll be moving closer asap.

I'll be moving closer asap.

what happens though when you like the area of where your living?

you have to move because fuel prices, thats shit if so....

When the motorways are full of people driving at 55 mph to save fuel, when all your inessential journeys have been cut out, perhaps you might be able to claim that fuel is too expensive.

Until then, watching the traffic queues on a Sunday, seeing the X5s, the big gas guzzling cars...... I think we've a way to go...

crikey - Member
When the motorways are full of people driving at 55 mph to save fuel, when all your inessential journeys have been cut out, perhaps you might be able to claim that fuel is too expensive.

Until then, watching the traffic queues on a Sunday, seeing the X5s, the big gas guzzling cars...... I think we've a way to go...

Oh - I might have written that.

However, I'd also hate it if owning and driving a car was only affordable to the rich.

everyone has to do their bit, but generally the people who drive x5's etc can aford these petrol prices.

check the states!! 80cent / gallon!

they get to drive their v8's /10's we got 3 cylinder crap and hybrid shit that still have to pay £1.18!!

also if they want to drive fast then why shouldnt they, doesnt change the fact that fuel is stupidly expensive. if we all did cut the stupid shop jounrys and driving at 55pmh on motorways etc. the price of fuel still wont come down!

I fill up so rarely that I've got no idea if it's expensive or not.
This isn't helping is it? 🙂

crikey - +1

I'll be moving closer asap.
what happens though when you like the area of where your living?

you have to move because fuel prices, thats shit if so....

I meant that I'll be moving my job - currently I commute because my partner works in a totally different place. I can afford it, but I don't agree with doing it all of the time on a moral and financial level! I would think it's crap if I couldn't afford to commute say 25 miles, but if everybody commuted that distance pollution etc would be aweful, so I don't think you should unless you [i]really[/i] have too.

Nick_Christy - Member
if we all did cut the stupid shop jounrys and driving at 55pmh on motorways etc. the price of fuel still wont come down!

But the cost of it would.

tbh another thing that gets on my t**s is we have a problem with obese kids but you get so many d***head people driving their kids to school. last week i came home from work to find the already tight area where i live jammed with cars and my driveway blocked by some numpety picking there kid up, i know that the world is different to when i was at school and you cant let them walk home on their own but nothing is stopping parents walking especially when schools have a radius of about 3/4 mile from the school.

Final salary pensions are not going to pay for themselves are they.

Hells teeth - am I too late to this thread? Its all been said already. Nowt left for me to say

🙁

"is it time yet to make a stand that will count about the rediculous prices we are being extorted for our fuel,"

Traditionally before protesting against fuel prices you should wait until immediately after a really pro-driver budget, right in the middle of a long-term fall in petrol taxation, and then claim afterwards that the protest changed everything. That's what happened last time anyway. Fight the power! Or if not the power, the facts!

gazman - Member

tbh another thing that gets on my t**s is we have a problem with obese kids but you get so many d***head people driving their kids to school. last week i came home from work to find the already tight area where i live jammed with cars and my driveway blocked by some numpety picking there kid up, i know that the world is different to when i was at school and you cant let them walk home on their own but nothing is stopping parents walking especially when schools have a radius of about 3/4 mile from the school.

Actually kids are safer now than they were a generation ago. Its not crime that has increased especially for kids - its fear of crime by the parents following a generation of scare stories in the press.

What train journey is cheaper than driving?

Salisbury to Southend, £32 open return. I do have a railcard though, and that's obviously off peak. Petrol cost (obviously not the full cost of motoring) was about £40 last time I did it, and wasn't much cheaper when I had a small economical car.

I just like to offer my experiences, I wouldn't tell anyone that it can work for them unless I know their situation. I chickened out last time when my small car died because I thought it was impossible. I was wrong, and not having a car is paying for me to cycle in Tasmania this year

9 mile journey to town is £12.... £12 i could drive that journey 20x easy by my car.

You could ride it sometimes for free 🙂 Actually it's better than free because you'll be full of endorfins when you get to work.

taxis are even more expensive!

I've used a taxi twice in 3 months. I live about 5 miles from town so it's no problem to get to work or see mates etc. I have however spent about £250 on my commuter bike, so maybe it's a false economy!

Train journey cheaper than a car - edinburgh / glasgow return. Cheapest return available is &7.20. I normally pay £12.70 IIRC. Its 90 miles so a tenners worth of petrol plus more in wear and tear etc etc

...and you can't realistically complain about people driving their kids to school then ask for cheaper fuel. The reason kids are driven to school is all to do with perceived road safety rather than paedophilia; the more drivers there are, the less roads are safe.

It is a bit silly to sit and moan about the cost of fuel without appreciating the cost to society; someone has to pay for all the costs of motoring, why not motorists?

Stuff it. I'm gonna buy a fek off big V8 whilst I still can, and drive it flat out everywhere, just to pee everyone off!
😉

Train journey cheaper than a car - edinburgh / glasgow return. Cheapest return available is &7.20. I normally pay £12.70 IIRC. Its 90 miles so a tenners worth of petrol plus more in wear and tear etc etc

maybe so but IME the vast majority of journeys are massively more expensive than driving.
For example, Chelmsford to Bristol. Takes an hour longer in the train, and an open return is £177!! Costs about £30 there and back in the car, and I'm guaranteed a seat!

currently working in Chester and living in Cheltenham, business relocation. I can get to work at an average 60mpg, so a smidge over 2 gallons, say £12 each way? I have to pay for the tax, insurance regardless of whether i use the car or not.

If i use the car i can take my bike so i can get around in the week without the car, if i go by train, who knows a complete lottery and forget taking any amount of luggage. New trains are so spacious!!!

Now i have to be at work at 9am on a monday morning, it simply isn't going to happen the trains don't run that early.

finally according to Trainline the standard off peak return price is £52.40. I suppose you could say i could book in advance, but the point of the car is convenience, so "public" transport needs to try and get somewhere near. ie turn up and go pricing, not book 6 months in advance and hope you get one of the limited availability tickets. Of course there is then the tiny detail of the train arriving, never guaranteed.

I would like to point out i only learnt to drive three years ago because i was sick and tired of cancelled trains and the costs simply didn't work, and if two of you are travelling a car does not cost twice as much.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8340561.stm ]£1000[/url] sums it up.

train journey gatwick to milton keynes £24, i did there and back for that same price.
return jouney for trains is like 5p more anyway.

some people like myself would never get up out of bed an extra 40 mins before work to ride 10 miles... then all sweaty then start work. not exactly hygienic due to not having showers etc....

The idea that expensive fuel will encourage us not to drive so much is plain stupid IMHO. I don't drive any more than i need to, expensive fuel means less money in my pocket not less driving.
I do catch the train to cardiff pretty much every day though, the train is cheaper due to the toll but only just, however I drive to and from the station. I used to ride my bike (and loved it) but the guards refused to let me put it on the train one time too many. If you know bristol, you'll know that you cannot lock it up at the stn!

If we want reduced prices how would that happen? Reduce tax? We need as much as we can get because of the debt....or just ask the oil companies nicely?

tbh another thing that gets on my t**s is we have a problem with obese kids but you get so many d***head people driving their kids to school. last week i came home from work to find the already tight area where i live jammed with cars and my driveway blocked by some numpety picking there kid up, [s]i know that the world is different to when i was at school and you cant let them walk home on their own[/s] [b] yes you can,[/b] but nothing is stopping parents walking especially when schools have a radius of about 3/4 mile from the school.

Now THAT is a rant I can agree with 😈

and an open return is £177!!

Off peak is £71, and super off peak is less than £60. I agree that peak rail travel is stupidly priced, often cheaper to stay somewhere overnight.

As an aside it's £14 [b]return[/b] from Salisbury to Port Talbot at certain times 🙂 Doing Afan by train this summer...

I have people who work for me and live closer than me and drive everyday then complain about the costs of driving.
They always seem upset when I laugh at them and suggest that fuel isn't expensive enough.

interestingly scale it up

contact lense solution is well over 1000 bucks a barrel !

thats over priced - yet people pay it no bother !

my van moves at weekends for riding only - everything else is done by bike - oil pays my wages - i dont feel like paying my own wages un necessarily !

but do you need 5 litres of contact solution to go an hour worth of seeing?

i think something needs to be done. ok tax needs to be done but really so much on something NEEDED for peoples lifes to carry on.

i remember when the fuel blockade was on last that lasted a week or two was it?

i lived in a hamlet outside in country. no bus routes to or from and working 50 mile away.

so how did i go to work? by planning ahead and buying shit loads at the time. other colleagues never made it in as they couldnt get it (also from a small villages).

The problem is public transport is shit unless you live within the zones of london! its late, trains overcrowded, overpriced through peak times is lets be honest when most commuters are using it. funny that 😉 theres a shit load of tax there that could be used!

your telling me from all the speeding tickets and gatso cameras they still need to charge fuel at these prices? come on...

in my village the public transport is terrible!
2 buses a day through my village now 8.20 or 16.20! thats great for when i started work at 8 😉

returns get me back at 12 and 8.40 great once again. the price is best 6 mile to leighton buzzard on a pop pop bus costs me a £5. now thats value for money!

get in your car drive it, in the warm where your garanteed a place out of the rain with music and wait for the lorry drivers to get so pisssssssed about it again they block it all up once again.

check the states!! 80cent / gallon!

When, in 1990?

It's actually around $2.80 per gallon

when my bro was there in texas 2 months ago 😉

ive just come back from texas yesterday 2.60 dollars/gallon 8)

[url= http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D9E81IR01.html ]texas gas (why did I bother)[/url]

80 cents to 2.57 in two months is some inflation!

p.s. and a US galon is only 3.785 litres

There are always excuses for excessive tax.

The problem is now that the government are as addicted to fuel duty as the public are to fossil fuels. If we think the cost of travel is ridiculous now, it's only going to get worse.

While fuel prices escalate, it would make sense to divert some of this revenue into public transport. Instead £177bn has been given out to a wunch of bankers.

i reckon when you take into account the fact that cars are getting more and more efficient, the per-mile cost is just the same.

I remember my old Rover 200 costing around 8-9p per mile back in 2001 (when i was young and driving like a wally) and my Golf diesel is now costing around the same.

no one forced you to live in that hamlet .....ergo you do not NEED fuel to carry on life it mearly makes it convienant for you to live where you choose (or where you got a cheaper house)

I filled my van & car yesterday, £93 for my van & £67 for my car, I never think about the expense,I need to use fuel to earn money, I look on it as that's £160 I'm not going to be paying income tax on.

Its simply not excessive tax. Its necessary tax. Where ever taxation is raised from you moan about it - and you also moan about poor services. The money to pay for services has to come from somewhere

As for those who say a car is a necessity - it is only a necessity for your chosen lifestyle. Don't live in dormitory / commuter villages or don't complain about cost of cars.

It is the people who commute from these villages that have made public transport not viable in these areas by not using it and have killed local shops and pushed up property prices to the point that people who work in rural areas cannot afford to live there.

It will take another generation to sort out but petrol and energy in general is only going to get more expensive.

If petrol was 5 times the price how quickly would we have 100+ mpg cars? Those of you moaning about petrol prices why don't you have more economical cars - 70 mpg is feasible now.

Where and when are these cheap train journeys?

We live 40 miles out of London, and its £27 at peak time for a return - and peak been the time everybody goes to work. And you've still got to get to the station (£5.50 to park - or £3.50 each way in a taxi).

So £27 to do 80 miles, and 2 hours in and 2 hours out.

Anyway while I can complain about the price of public transport, I can't about fuel - I run a V8 😆

As an aside, we went to Afan today - 400 mile round trip, best value day out so far this year - try doing that on public transport, on a Sunday!

the point im trying to make is fuel is going up far higher than the rate of inflation, but wages are not in fact people have had pay cuts, the same as many of us on here,

Me too but I don't come on here and moan about my lifestyle choices.

b r - Member

Anyway while I can complain about the price of public transport, I can't about fuel - I run a V8

As an aside, we went to Afan today - 400 mile round trip, best value day out so far this year - try doing that on public transport, on a Sunday!

Game, set and match

"It is the people who commute from these villages that have made public transport not viable in these areas by not using it "

Its the other way round. It all started with the "Beeching axe".

I can't afford a v8.

I run a family hatchback, which I only use at weekends (yes, I use my bike to commute the 5 miles to my local railway station).

Br, read my posts for some examples. And the fact that I can get to afan for £14 from here. Granted, not sure you could on a Sunday, so I'll go on Saturday....

RichPenny - I'd like some examples please. My g/f and I wanted to book tickets to visit friends in Morpeth, but the cheapest we could find was the thick end of £250.

Where's the incentive?

"It is the people who commute from these villages that have made public transport not viable in these areas by not using it "

make it cheaper in the first place and we might??

Easter is approaching, people using cars for staycations = higher fuel prices. The price will go down for a couple months and then rise again end June beginning July.

HoratioHufnagel - Member
"It is the people who commute from these villages that have made public transport not viable in these areas by not using it "

Its the other way round. It all started with the "Beeching axe".

I cannot get a bus to work so it is car or bike. No car share because no-one working with me stays anywhere near me.
If my wife were to use buses it would take 1hr to travel the 5mls with a change of bus half way.

Fossil fuel users are cash cows, pure and simple. 90% of everything travels by road at some point, the 'high fuel tax' advocates don't get that. Do you know how many bike panniers you would need to fill to get your average 40'trailer load of goods to market? Neither do I, but I reckon it'd be a lot. Net result is the high tax on fuel has a direct cost implication on everything including the mass transportation system which last time I looked didn't run on fresh air.

Why not just tax those who are selfish enough to drive large fuel ineficient cars for their personal gratification.

'I asked him how he thought I could tow the caravan behind a train (once he has priced me off the road) - he did not reply to this question.'

Now that made me laugh.

Weester - I tend to go on holiday by bike and train and camp once there. Rarely but sometimes I hare a car

I can't fault you TandemJeremy. I wish I could but the 4 year old and the wife with Scoliosis might not wear it.

Interesting thought though, how many miles to the gallon does a train carrying 300 people do?

"Fossil fuel users are cash cows, pure and simple. 90% of everything travels by road at some point, the 'high fuel tax' advocates don't get that."

I'm sure most of them do. You'll find most people who support high fuel costs also support reducing road haulage and improving freight infrastructure as well as public transport. But transportation costs are a small part of point-of-sale prices.

Good news Folks since Tesco have opened in Newtown Mid Wales a price war has broken out and all the petrol&diesel there was at 1.09 a litre...handy if you are local or passing!

Ok let me put it another way, how many bicycle panniers would you need to fill in order to transport 16 tonnes of scrap metal to the docks?

Ta weester - I try not to be a hypocrite on this. Week before last I had a hire car to go up into the mountains to do some mountaineering. The first time I have driven a car for a quite but winter mountaineering is very difficult without a car. I probably drive of be driven less than a couple of thousand miles a year.

Indeed northwind - I would like to make all transport more expensive which would encourage local production and sale. Supermarkets are particulaly bad for transporting stuff all over the country - if it became more expensive for them to do so they might alter their distribution. Many super markets have one distribution centre - so food produced near to a store may travel hundreds of miles to a distribution centre and back again.

dunno about the MPG of a train - I shall google it. I believe per passenger mile they are better but I'll see what I can find.

Edit Weester - there are some things indeed that a car / van / truck is essential for - people who travel with tools to different sites such as tradesmen for example. could the scrap you mention not go on a tain?

weester, let me put it another way, that's a ridiculous straw man argument and I have no idea why you'd even bother to type it.

Northwind, how do you and your ilk intend on moving anything too heavy to put in a car?

UK Freight train average about 1.5-2.0 MPG Loaded. Compared with road transport it is very efficient; if lorries did the same trip they would use 70% more fuel than a freight train. Uk Passenger trains average from 8MPG - 12MPG.

Cunard state that their liner, the RMS Queen Elizabeth 2, travels 49.5 feet per imperial gallon of diesel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation

"Northwind, how do you and your ilk intend on moving anything too heavy to put in a car?"

I have an ilk? Well, I'll get the ilk to carry it.

Correct answer is trains, the perfect heavy materials transport. Your next question will be "What if there's no trains nearby", the answer to that is that a) if we want to get away from our ridiculous overdependance on road haulage we'll need more train lines but also b) Mohammed can go to the mountain. Same issue as commuters who "have" to drive 30 miles because they live in the wrong place.

Your actual green would point out that shipping scrap metal to the docks so that it can be transported around the world to be reprocessed in china is nuts. But if we're going to live in a global economy mad stuff like that is going to happen, so they can just deal with it. However, they would be right to say that if increasing road haulage costs by say 25% makes hauling something unviable, the other answer is to not haul it at all.

OK! But how does any of the above help the OP as a small independent trader?

shouldnt be costing him "any" more - prices should be adjusting accordingly

I'd be happy to commute by public transport, however the last time I did, it took nearly two hours for what takes 30 mins in the car. Given my normal working hours that'd mean leaving the house at 6am, getting home around 9-10pm. What an awesome life that would be.