From 0 to 911.... (one for enthusiasts)

Hoefully you'll be lusting after something electric by then and 911s will be seen for what they are - horrible noisy polluting things. 😉

I've noticed original Tesla roadster prices are heading skywards, that might be a better bet.

Just PM WCA,he could bodge one up for you at a very good price👍😉🤣

I had a 997 Carrera S, owned it for a couple of years and got my money back when I sold it.

However I got very lucky that someone went into the back of it and so the ~£10 000 bill for replacing the exhaust and catalyst along with the rear bumper went to them rather than me.

I enjoyed driving it, but it was just too fast for public roads. I’m not sure I’d have another one, no matter what my financial circumstances.

If I did get another one, then it would be the base model. Part of the joy of a 911 is getting it to make the noise as you rev it to the limit. You’re able to do that more often in the slower ones.

I much prefer the mid-engine Porsches. Can't stand the lazy/poggoing turn in of the 911. I would really test drive both before committing, OP.

I spent ages poking about the idea of a 996 or a boxer.

In the end I'm a total cheapskate and running an expensive car at my budget was asking for bill I couldn't pay.

My budget was the bottom of the market I would have had a car that had been through loads of people. Some possibly in the same boat as me, can afford to buy it but not maintain it.

Tales of new engines due to valve liners really put me off. My mate still has an engine block from a 911 in the garden as a planter. Another mate bought an old boxer and commuted 40 miles a day in it. After the third body off fault he bought something else to commute in. He said the body had to come off to get at the engine. I did wonder at the time if the backstreet garage he was taking it to was totally legit.

I was in a local Porsche garage ages ago trying to persuade them to take some training. They were politely not interested.

They did say some people spend ages (years in some cases) building a relationship with the dealer before finally putting down a deposit and waiting for a car to be built.

Get down your local dealer. Try some cars, get saving. 10 years should give you plenty of time. In 10 years time who knows what faults will develop in newish cars.

£150 an hour for diagnostics at BMW. I'd want to know what the labour rate is at Porsche. I'm quite sure I would be going "HOW MUCH!' so go in with your eyes open

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-10/porsche-drivers-teeth-chatter-with-taycan-heater-on-the-fritz

On the other hand a teacher mate has had a boxer for 10 years. No problems, loves it, still feels every drive is an event, regular servicing and it has thrown nothing other than mildly expensive consumables.

I've lived this tale through a good work colleague.

997 gen2 is the 'best value' of the early water cooled but still have some big ticket service items. Gen 1's and 996 are into potential bore wear territory/Hartage of Bolton rebuilds.

There are a lot people selling these cars, do your homework carefully.
Friend bought a 'good un' that wasn't quite and bailed out quickly into a Maserati Granturismo instead that he prefers.

You can’t drive them fast on the road unless you want to risk losing your license, and they aren’t cheap to run.

An mx5 will give you the roof down enjoyment of a rwd car, without the license losing ability, or cost of ownership. It might not have the badge, but who cares if you are enjoying yourself?

we had the same plan, both love 911’s and planned to get one when the mortgage was paid off in a few years.

anyway we were looking to replace my wife’s Fabia vrs nearly 3 years ago. We went to a garage to look at a Golf and they had an 05 Boxster there as well. Test drove it, both loved it and bought it.

It had already had crossover coolant pipes replaced (1k job) and well maintained by Porsche and then specialists.

3 years on we have spent just over £2k on maintenance, a full service inc spark plugs and belts, minor service, new brake lines ( corroded behind under trays) and a new window regulator.

it’s a base 2.7 987 and it’s not fast by modern standards 6s to 60, but that just means you can use more of the performance within speed limits. It sounds glorious once you get over 4k revs.

we are more than happy to keep this long term and give up on a 911, I don’t think the additional spend could increase my enjoyment anymore. It’s the perfect second car to my Tesla  model 3.

I found a specialist called Unique in Bolton to look after it. They are excellent and around £80  per hour on the labour charge.

Chris

As above. If you’re wedded to the idea of a combustion engined sports car, a nicely sorted MX5 will cause you a lot less stress than a Porsche or any flavour. Pennies to fix by comparison and a lot more rewarding to drive at legal speeds. I’m not going back to fossil fuels now, but if I were a BBR tuned Mk4 MX5 would be my choice £ for £ over anything more exotic.

If you really want a 911 make sure you really do your homework. Piston Heads forum  is a good place to both read and get advice. 

The 997.2 is probably the best place to start since the engines are more reliable that the earlier water cooled 996 / 997.1. Also they look great to me (other opinions may differ).

They are very nice things to drive, quite a unique experience compared to mid/front engined cars and own (I'm on my second and had very little trouble with them).

Although who knows what people will be driving in 10yrs time.

Personally if I was in the market for a 911 I’d get the 911 GTS. Basically has all the sensible options already specced, and depending on model/year sometimes has a tiny bit of extra performance.

I wouldn’t bother with the Carerra 4 GTS though, there is grip a plenty in the 2WD versions.

Looked hard at a variety of options. The 993’s are my first love and we have an independent garage in our road, so I see a lot of them. In reality a 997.2 is the one to have for reliable enjoyment. In the event, needing a dog carrier and with a Ulez non-compliant family CRV, I settled for a Macan S. At least the dashboard is the same. And driving it is a pleasure too. A 911  is not dog friendly, and a Panamera estate still out of budget.

I’ve only had front engined pork (3 944s).
You get the poor man’s Porsche tag with the £250 for a water pump costs.
However they are astonishing in how well built they were and the quality of the fixings. Being able to undo nearly 40 year old bolts without stripping a thread or a welder is quite a thing. They don’t mind rusting though.

As to the argument of you don’t need all that power on modern roads, being able to overtake without fear is great.

My 944 turbo has around 350bhp and can be a lot of fun whilst never breaking a speed limit, (although 350bhp is hot hatch territory these days).
No driver aids whatsoever and you can happily give it full beans without ending up on fire and upside down.

They can be addictive though. A friend of mine took his 911 to Australia, on the grounds it was worth much more there, so he’d make a profit. He lived there for a couple of years and bought the car back to the UK again.
So actually an expensive exercise.

I do know of a 911 996 that is going for sale in West Sussex at a good price and I can bypass the dealer for you if required. PM me for details.

I am in Southampton and happy to let you have a look around mine and I can take you out for a blast if you want. Again PM me.

I am not as stunned and amazed as I was hoping to be by the 911. I have a 2005 C4S and while the tight handling and road holding is great, I miss the power and acceleration of my old Merc. They are quite pricey for parts but often it is the labour that stings. It is not that you are overcharged, it is that for so many basic things you have to drop the engine and transmission or half the front of the car apart. If you want to work on them yourself then you need ramps and the 997 only has 4 point you can jack the car up on so lots of the cheaper ones won't work unless you make some kind of adaptor like I did (

Also don't expect much more than 20mpg for general driving and obviously less when pressing on. My 5.6 V8 Supercharged Merc could do over 40mpg by comparison.

Having said all that seemingly negative stuff, I do really like the car and as I only bought it to ruin with modifications to the bodywork, I can live with the shortcomings.

Also- where are you going to actually drive a fancy car to?

Not work as it's post retirement.
Supermarket?
Center of town for a nice meal?
To a country pub for a non alcoholic drink?
Track day to actually get your foot down for more than 4 seconds?
Put a rack on the roof and park it in a deserted car park for riding?
Euro roadtrip? Where are you going to park it? I would have to base my hotel choices on car parking.

I've totally talked myself out of a sports car. There is a bright red newish Ferrari that lives on my way home from work.

I still can't work out what I'd use it for. None of the above! I've not been for "a drive" for years.

A bloke I knew told me his mate retired and bought a fancy Porsche, which ruined his life because he could never relax when out for fear it was getting scratched or stolen.

One of the advantages of a 911 in a discrete colour is that you can park them in most places and they’re ok.

[i]Also- where are you going to actually drive a fancy car to?[/i] - A bland silver 911 isn't a particularly 'fancy' car so as Kramer says, you can use them to go anywhere. Not much space for the shopping though. I often just go out for a drive for the enjoyment of driving, weird huh? Buying a car to enjoy driving in. That doesn't mean I have to drive everywhere at a bazzillion miles an hour and obviously I can't fully exploit it on public roads.

Have a think about your bikes for a moment though. Do you fully exploit it on every journey? Do you use it to the exclusion of all other transport or just when you want to? etc etc etc

The bike is a hobby you 'waste' money on. The car is exactly the same 'waste' of money. Great fun though

911s make a great daily driver. You can also fit people in the back, but it’s uncomfortable enough that they wouldn’t choose to ride in it regularly. 😉

Planned on getting a sports car later in life. When my mum sadly passed away I took her love of Italian things and bought a Maserati Granturismo. Figured if I waited then it might never happen! Had to pick something that can actually sit 4 people or  I don’t think I would use it as much. Usually get out once a week in it, running errands or picking the kids up from clubs etc. Had it bit over a year and still haven’t really gone for a drive in it. It works as I don’t have to use it daily. Still makes me smile starting it up. Realistically the Tesla is much faster in any kind of usable way and the diesel estate not that far off but neither make me smile  like it

One of my old colleagues was going to get  a 911 but in the end went with a Boxster and loves it. He’s properly retired and doesn’t have to run around kids anymore so gets away with it.

On the flip side my much more practical sister bought an MX5 instead ( and a new motorbike for my BIL) instead and uses it daily.

I use my not so fancy Porsche to carry my bike. It’s about as economical as a van doesn’t depreciate and I get to have fun before and after I have fun on my bike.

Have a word with the Porsche Club GB guys. I had a hankering for a Cayman for a while but we needed a four door car, I had a long chat with them on their stand at RaceRetro a few years ago. Would be a good source of info on potential issues and common faults etc.

https://www.porscheclubgb.com

a 924 is not a fancy car. they were selling for well under a grand a decade ago, and just look like a mildly interesting, svelt 70s car. I had a 944s2 and preferred the 924 looks but wanted a bit more power. They do rot quite a lot, so check for that, later 924s is probably the one to go for (assuming you haven't the budget for a carrera), as they use the 944 engine.

lots of buyers guides with common faults in them. I found mine fairly tricky on-limit, but fun the rest of the time.

Currently trying to get my one month old to burp, so

@WorldClassAccident

Have a think about your bikes for a moment though. Do you fully exploit it on every journey? Do you use it to the exclusion of all other transport or just when you want to? etc etc etc

Nope I've been taking it steady and deciding to take the less tricky line for the last few months and will be for quite a while. Next time I'll be on an uplift somewhere to fully exploit it... End of summer? Maybe?

Out on my road bike yesterday and that really comes alive when I'm giving it some beans. Currently I can manage beans mode for about 5 min of a 3 hour ride. It's wasted on me but still nice to ride.

I struggled to make a cake with my 4 year old due to sleep deprivation this week. Fully exploiting anything seems a recipe for disaster right now!

When I did drive fast, I found it was the same buzz as biking. Just with higher consequences. 15 miles an hour over some tricky rooty off camber bit was just as thrilling (for me) as a peak district twisty b road at the speed limit. If I got the biking wrong I'd probably bounce and the bike would be fine. If a tractor was coming the other way in the car there would be significantly more consequences.

Alway good to see and hear people enjoying their passions.

That wee car you converted looked awesome. I'm curious to see how your 911 ends up 😀

You can’t drive them fast on the road unless you want to risk losing your license, and they aren’t cheap to run.

An mx5 will give you the roof down enjoyment of a rwd car, without the license losing ability, or cost of ownership. It might not have the badge, but who cares if you are enjoying yourself?

This.

Had two 911’s, 993 and a 996. Technically they were the girlfriends, but I drove them just as much as her. Running costs were minimal. They were always our second car so didn’t have to rely on them…..not that we had any major issues in about 5 years of ownership. These were both company cars so owner ship costs were covered under warranty. Alternator issue and an issue with water ingress on the soft top 996.

MPG wise, going back a few years but absolutely fine and far better than my AMG Merc.

Before the Porsche I had a TVR Chimera, the Porsche was a far better daily driver. It could be used in all conditions without any thoughts it was going to jump into a bush. And I have to admit, it was nice to have the speed should we want to drive quickly, but I found the 911 was a relaxing place to be and we didn’t really drive it to its maximum…..one caveat…..we lived on an island with a maximum speed of 40mph, so most of the driving was A and B road pootling. We did head over to the continent quite a lot, but again most of the time we drove sensibly.

Ive had other expensive cars, even relatively new cars of the same ilk as a 911, I would be budgeting about £4k a year for running costs.

There’s some amazing info and experiences here, thanks for posting all.  Right now I need to digest that; I’m not in a position to buy but I want to have enough info that I can credible rock up at a meet/club/showroom and engage in the beginnings of an enthusiasts conversation.  <br /><br />

WCA thanks for the offer I would absolutely love to come and have a coffee with you and look over your car, I’ll drop you a PM - I’m in London so its and easy journey and just the thought of being so close to one fills me excitement.  Interesting what you say about the Merc becuase I’ve been thinking about changing my always-driven-in sport-mode 320d to a C43 as a daily. In all practically terms that sounds very stupid (I have been endlessly watching 340i touring reviews), but I’m harking for the sound, the feeling, the power of owning something a little special without the attention and theft risk of RS ownership.   I suppose my perfect daily is a significant estate for getting the bikes to places in.

Anyway, we are now fortunate to be a debt free family so with some job wobbles I’m hesitating to get on any kind loan scenario ever again, hence the longer term plan.  

When I was 19/20 I experienced that after the company owner I worked for sold up and threw a party for the employees, he let me sit, start and experience his new grey / red leather DB9.  It was a special moment, and I want one of those moments for myself when have the means to do so.  It’s isn’t the thought of blasting around country lanes irresponsibly, it’s about the experience of being in one, owning one, and taking care of it as best I can.  Sometime I might choose just to give it a wash and sit and stare in my old age 🙂

What about a db7 then?

I had a fast A8 and have driven a few other fast Audis and was somewhat underwhelmed. Yes they look and feel solid, yes they will through you back in your seat under acceleration, but they are pretty dull to drive. The A8 I had was big, fast, comfortable, loaded with every bit of kit the original buyer could find to tick on the options list but still sent me to sleep. My wife loved it as a a passenger. The Mercedes CL600 that followed was another land yacht but felt nicer to drive as you felt you were at least partly involved in the process. This is probably my wife's favorite car I have owned - mine is probably still the DC02 Integra Type R.

I did look at an Aston DB7 but, although beautiful, it looks like I styled and built the interior - need a sat nav? Nick a square one from Volvo and stick a bit of shaped plastic with leather glued on to the top so it almost matches the facia, but not quite. Repeat for switch gear and most other fixtures and fittings. I also tried a Jag XKR Supercharged but couldn't get through the door comfortably. Reminded me of some American cars - how do yoiu make a car so big feel cramped?

I'm a lifelong car lover and honestly I've gone off them. The last fun car I had just sat there doing nothing but it did attract a gang of burglars to my house twice.

If I was looking for something entertaining I'd buy a mk3 MX5 and go as high up the BBR path as budget would allow. Preferably at least a turbo conversion. No one looks twice at an MX5 and as a machine for driving you can't do much better without going to extremes.

One other suggestion Kryton - book a session at the Porsche Experience at Silverstone. I've done s couple (911 and most recently a Cayman GT4). Superb place, posh food, brilliant service etc as you would expect and the cars, well... Obviously they will be new but will give you chance to experience the car without limitations on their handling circuit. You will of course become even more obsessed!
Take a look at the brochure link here as the website is undergoing an update

https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/en/experience/porschedrivingexperience/

My advice - buy a fun car while you can still get in one.
No point waiting till your 60's when your knees/back may be knackered and you have to crawl out of it! 🙂

What he ^^^ said too.

I have cocked my body up is some many novel and exciting ways that I can't bend my back/neck enough to get in a nice Ferrari. I can stand/walk enough to push a Lotus down the hard shoulder. I can't drink or take enough cocaine to drive a Pagani through Paris.

Old age sucks.

If you’re wedded to the idea of a combustion engined sports car, a nicely sorted MX5 will cause you a lot less stress than a Porsche or any flavour.

When I read posts like this, all I can think is:

I'd really like an Ilya Repin to go over the shoe rack in the hallway.

If you really must get a picture, why choose an expensive Repin? This painting by Jack Vettriano also depicts people on a beach, and it'll cost 1/100th of the amount.

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

Nothing to add as im not a petrolhead (cars) but when i rocked up once to 10 Under The Ben (10hr race), some guy had a 911 with a double bike roof rack (and with the bike still on it). Id been reliably informed by one of my mates it was a really good 911 😀

So where id the bike rack going? If your getting a convertible, not on the roof.... 😀

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

A painting that hangs on a wall doesn't have running costs and potentially life alteringly expensive failures.

986 Boxster owner here. On the right day its amazing. Quite a lot of the time its just a car. Sometimes its a complete PITA and I resent the time and money it soaks up.

I'm lucky enough to live near some open well sighted roads with nice corners, but even then, getting dry AND deserted tarmac for more than about 20 seconds at a time is a very rare thing, so you never get any flow going. 3rd gear doesn't really come on cam until 50mph and redline is well past any speed limit in Europe. And there's 3 more gears to go.

The handling is lovely(especially since getting it fettled by Center Gravity), but again - how often can you actually stuff it through a corner hard enough to make it worthwhile? The tactility of the experience does show quite how rubbish most modern cars are. Being able to read the texture of a manhole cover through the brake pedal is quite a thing.

Yes you can just pootle in it and its still enjoyable, but it tends to involve summer evenings, sunsets, top down, maybe a decent meal in a pub. How often do you do that now? And if you don't - are you suddenly going to start chucking £100+ at an evening drive (with meal attached)? And there's always the temptation to unleash the madness that comes at 4k+rpm. "Just going for a drive" seems increasingly wrong in the current day, so you need to add a purpose to that, which cuts down a lot of the usage potential of a 2 seat soft top - you can't get an 8x4 of plasterboard on it!

The Boxster is quite practical - boots both ends - we've done weeks away in it very comfortably, and its very liveable with cruising on the motorway. I slightly wish I'd got a Cayman so I could carry a bike on the roof, but then no top down, which was one of the big selling points for the missus.

I do most of the maintenance myself - The majority of the "they all do that, sir" have done that (sir), but I do get a specialist to do the servicing to keep the history going. Parts costs are weird. Some big bits are quite cheap. Others are !!!HOW MUCH!!! for a plastic screw??? I guess it costs me £2-3k a year to keep on the road inc insurance, tax, tyres etc. So a couple of weeks skiing, or a full on bespoke mountainbike holiday. You pays yer money and takes yer choice!

We've done NC500 (just before it properly took off and became detrimental to the area), a week touring Normandy and next summer it should be taking us down to the Alps for a week's mountaineering. After that, we'll have to see.

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So where id the bike rack going? If your getting a convertible, not on the roof…. 😀

Posted 9 minutes ago

Didn't @chipps have a boxer with a bike rack that he sold on here?

^^ there is an exoskeleton type frame thing that you get (not cheap!) to put a roof rack on a boxster, but I believe its not the quickest thing to put on and off, and its ****ing hideous. (also not sure if you can fold the roof with it fitted - could be wrong)

Another Boxster owner here (a 986 though) - similar experience to JonEdwards - 90% of the time I love it - have a local garage that know what they are doing with it for reasonable money (and they let me store it under cover there) but sometimes it can be frustrating - the weather we've had lately means I'm just starting it up and running it for  while but the summer is great - drives to a nice pub, weekend tours (the 2 boots hold loads of stuff).

Am in no rush to get rid of it but have wondered wether an older S3/RS3 would be a better fit though - looked at other options before I bought the Boxster - a 3.2 Audi TT came close but the MX5s I looked at were either more than the Boxster or rust buckets. Overall I love it - not a sensible choice but TBH my 3 MTBs would cost a lot more new than the Boxster cost me!

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

The is STW. There are only 2 car options, which only vary by the question being asked, Octavia and MX5

The is STW. There are only 2 car options, which only vary by the question being asked, Octavia and MX5

Octavia is out of style now, I think it got too sporty. Berlingo is the vehicle of choice.

My experience is I bought a Ferrari to make some cheeky money, lost my shirt on it as bought at a terrible time and the market went elsewhere.  I wouldn't have minded but really got no joy from driving it.

I guess what I'm saying is make sure you really really want it (that track day seems a good idea, as is itching the scratch now while you're in good health)

that track day seems a good idea

Not sure I'd agree. The rule "don't track what you can't afford to lose" applies

My dad bought a 993 cab when he retired, although this was after several years in a mk3 MR2 and a Fiat Coupe before that. Not so many trackdays now, but between the Porsche Club GB and their local motoring club there's lots of stuff to go to or get involved with if that's your bag. I think if I had something like that my stage in life I'd never use it. At least 911s mostly make a good daily driver if you don't need to carry too much stuff.

Dog travels OK in theirs on the shelf behind the front seats when you fold down the rear seat backs.

It's had plenty of work done to it, engine rebuild, suspension refresh, new hood etc but that's all cost less than the rise in value. Buy the right thing and it needn't be expensive overall to run for a few years.

I’d love a 911 still but resigned to never being able to afford one. I did have a BMW Z4 coupe which I sold and now regret pretty much every day. Super little car, happy to be used as a daily driver (had the 3.0l engine with automatic transmission) and sounded great. I’m tempted to get another if I find myself with some spare cash one day.

The man wants a 911. Why suggest an entirely different car?

It’s a good point, but this wouldn’t be STW if someone didn’t do that, and it was my turn. <br /><br />

It was based on some experience of the massive anxieties and costs that can accompany the joys of complex sports car ownership. And the absolute unrivalled joy of a well sorted MX5 on a twisty back road. 

My 911 experience: bought a 997.2 at the very start of the pandemic, sold it two years and 5000 miles later for 10% more than I paid. Those days are probably over but if you pick the right model (and you have to get really into the minutiae of the spec - no sunroof etc) they're a fairly safe bet. Your budget will determine the model: £20-35k ropey and possibly risky 996, 997.1; £35-45k base model 997.2 (much safer proposition); £45-65k more exotic 997s (turbo, GTS), 991.1, cheaper 991.2s etc. Don't ignore the mid-model refreshes - usually important updates are released, such as entirely new engines for 997, 991, or better steering (991.2 etc). There are lots of opinions on each of the models - youll have to make up your own mind about whether the 991 and 992s are too big etc.

I'd still buy another 911 but I have zero interest in any other sports cars. But there are only a couple of models that I'd consider. As for the driving experience, I found mine to be very practical and reliable. I could fit a (road) bike in the back, or on the roof and I took it all over France and Spain. I'd take it to the garden centre and load up with compost. It was a lot more mannered than I was expecting and was happy to cruise along doing 30mpg+, the fun only really starts above 5000rpm, which you never reach in this country.

Rent one for a week. See if the idea lives up to the reality.

https://www.supercarexperiences.com/manufacturers/porsche/

that track day seems a good idea

The one that @Bullet suggested yes, driving a 911 in a safe environment the way it’s intended and a lunch many times over for the pricing of owning your own.  With that suggestion I could look at an exhaust rumbling second hand estate for daily use instead.  

Mrs K said I made a mistake at the weekend (taxiing Jnr around with many hours spent thinking on my own whilst he completed sports events) in that I should have taken our tow bar/rack enabled Sportage and live with my fun-er car just for work/times that don’t need 2 bikes and tri equipment fitted into the boot.  But with 350 miles driven I kinda wanted it to have be all at the same time - enjoying my environment while I am actually a cycling based dads taxi .

Maybe the growling estate idea has legs then, but the OP was based on when we don’t have kids at home, and the two cars would be our use - one everyday capable and the other for summer fun. And maybe yes, I should go “fast wagon” - even a saloon -  now using the Sportage for utility. The girls don’t cycle, so we are never in a position to need two cars both carrying bikes.  <br /><br />

I still want to own a 911.  

This was my daily driver for many years, rain, shine, gritted roads the lot

They are a pleasure to drive year round, so much grip (engine over driven axle).

Mine was an early '99 3.4, no bore issues on these, no IMS bearing issues. Cable throttle, hydraulic steering, no PASM just perfect.

I would get 30+ mpg on a divine B road commute and general car use.

4 seater, so it hung around until car seats became awkward. I cried when I sold it.

I bought it for £7000 (needing suspension and clutch) and sold it for £9500 years later.

I now have this which cost me £2500 a couple of months back:

Its 90% as good, its an early '98 2.5 again cable throttle, hydraulic steering and no PASM.

However maintenance on a boxster will be the same as a 911, the parts are the same, the engine is the same. Just get a 911 if you have the spare readies.

Do what you can to experience one, learn to drive it properly. They are Peak ICE, nobody is making anything like this anymore.

Am in no rush to get rid of it but have wondered wether an older S3/RS3 would be a better fit though

No, they wouldn't. They're so dull compared to something like a boxter/cayman etc. They are unfeasibly fast down a country lane though, but so boring. I've no idea how a car can be that fast but also that boring.

No, they wouldn’t. They’re so dull compared to something like a boxter/cayman etc. They are unfeasibly fast down a country lane though, but so boring. I’ve no idea how a car can be that fast but also that boring.

2nded

I've had some fast big cars, they are dull apart from a straightline, pointless waste of hydrocarbons.

911/boxster/cayman are a very rewarding drive. Another level to an mx-5 (mx-5 are not the bargain they once were either).

Just to add mine have not been expensive to maintain. Its the rip off labour rates and the desire to keep them "perfect" that costs. Any mechanic can work on them, just nuts and bolts and parts from autodoc are not much more than any other car.

I'm not qualified to comment as I have mostly earned **** all and even if I could afford a 911 these days I doubt I'd bother, apart from an early ish one.  I did consider cancelling some building work on my house when a 912 came up 15 years ago tho!

Having owned and loved an MX5 and Smart Roadster, something like that is where my money would go - but that's BC I don't have much. Lots of fun at reasonable speeds, cheap as chips and lots of hairdresser comments from most petrol heads - perfect!

The is STW. There are only 2 car options, which only vary by the question being asked, Octavia and MX5

There's a reason for that ya know.

If I could have a BBR turbo'd NC and and Octavia wagon I'd be set for life.

Stop buggering about with this BBR turbo nonsense and just get an RX7. The handling is every bit as good as a '5, with the added practicality of a roof (and possibly, tiny rear seats, spec dependent) and also the excitement of not knowing whether or not you'll finish the day with all the bits that make the engine work still inside the engine.

But on a general note, special cars are not a head choice, they're a heart choice. If you try and distill it down to logic, you'll never commit.
But it will be absolutely worth it for multiple reasons, like as the smile on small people's faces, and the giggles from driver and passenger(s).

Fast estates and fast hatches are fast, but they're very rarely as fun. I had a lightly tuned Saab Aero and it was very much a one trick pony. I've been in other faster estates as well, and the tactility of the drive just isn't there.
Get the 911, is very unlikely you'll lose money if you don't like it and sell it on after a while.

The main difference between my 911 and other fastish cars I've owned was that from 70-100mph the 911 was only just getting into it's stride. Mine was a 997, the newer ones are even faster.

It's very easy to go very very fast in one (license losing or even potentially prison time), if you're making progress and aren't paying strict attention to your speed and exercising a lot of self control. To be honest it frightened me after one stupid moment on an A road. Not so much in scared for myself, but for how much of a being a dick it enabled in me.

That was a large part of the reason that I sold it.

@bol

And the absolute unrivalled joy of a well sorted MX5 on a twisty back road.

Yeah, if I got another fun car, I'd probably get one of those or an A110 (base spec).

Bizarrely, one of the funnest cars to drive that I've owned was a Honda Jazz.

Wheel at each corner, and you had to have it pretty much on it's door handles to get anywhere at a reasonable speed, and it had a really snickety gear box.

These are from the Silverstone Porsche Experience last time. The GT4RS was just beautiful 😍

Go for it! But warranty!

I was in a very fortunate position of being able to order a 991.2 GTS for myself & I'm glad that I did. I don't think these kinds of cars will be around forever so experience one before it's too late if that's your thing. It was far too fast for public roads & only roads with very tight bends & short straights would allow me to use it in anger, it was eye-wateringly expensive to buy & run, I had huge concerns where I parked it & I was scared stiff of any mechanical work that it might have needed but it was utterly fabulous, well worth the hassle.  Don't forget about the warranty!!

Warranty is key, as is buying one from a reputable dealer is just as important - new or old. I joined a Porsche forum (911UK I think) and the knowledge on there was amazing & helped me immensely. Did I mention warranty? 🙂

What's your budget, where do you live, how much are you prepared to do yourself, and probably most importantly, have you ever driven one?

I bought a cheap 964 ten years ago. It had a massive oil leak and a week's MoT left. I managed to get it on a ramp to ascertain that it wasn't rotten and that was that. Ten years later it's been all over Europe with me and I can't ever see me selling it.

Oil changes from Porsche - for keeping history up, if you care about that - aren't actually that expensive. I think the older 997s fall under the Classic Programme now. My 964 was £200 for an oil change and a stamp in the book, so the cost difference between buying the oil and filters yourself and dealing with waste oil afterwards wasn't worth it.

Every part is available. Literally. My thirty year old ignition switch was becoming temperamental earlier this year and the replacement bought was a genuine part that had been made last year. I think it was 115€.

They are huge now, though. The 964's a dainty wee thing but a 997 absolutely isn't.  I know a Boxster or Cayman isn't what you want, but try one. It might actually be exactly what you want!

Interesting. 

I disagree with the posts about the RS cars being boring. Im currently running an RS4 V8 and its much more of an event to drive than the M3 V8 it replaced.

There are cars that are faster, handle better, look cooler etc. 

Decide what you want. Not what you need. and buy that* it sounds liek you want a 911. it doent have to make sense.

* having said that i hanker after a Chimera but after driving one and realising its a horrible daily im struggling to part with my cash. 

[i]* having said that i hanker after a Chimera but after driving one and realising its a horrible daily im struggling to part with my cash. [/i]

I have done that with a couple of cars. There was a huge desire and huge apprehension. My approach was to buy them with a mental note that you might sell them again in 3 months if they are as bad as you fear or keep them if they are as good as you hope. On the cars I have done this I made about £1,000 on one and lost about the same on the other but both ticked the box and got rid of the feeling of unrequited want.

I might have to stop reading for a bit, the last few posts have me thinking about immediately and without thought popping out to the local Audi and trading the 320d to an RS4 😂

do it, but get an old one.

I have 2 mates with 911's. Well, i have one mate with one and one mate who is still recovering from his little shunt he had in his a few weeks back....

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/man-in-hospital-with-serious-injuries-after-crash-that-closed-road-for-hours/ar-AA1k2e30

But before this, he very much enjoyed it. The flat six does sound good at full chat!

Another cheap skate boxster owner here

270 bhp is more than enough for road use. One thing that always strikes me is how much ‘faster’ it feels to drive than my big saloon mazda 6, even when you are going slower. On a country road 60 in the boxster feels much much faster.

its surprisingly practical as well with two boots. And you can pick them up for peanuts.

downsides are it gets through petrol at the rate of about 15/ gallon, and maintenance is a pain due to it being mid engined. Cost me well north of 3 k to replace the clutch, and that involved replacing the ims (700 quid for a bearing😳) which can be an issue on old 986 and 911 cars. And if that goes it’s basically going to write off your car.

How TF are you only getting 15mpg out of a Boxster? Is it a Tip 986 and you're constantly sitting in traffic? I did 1,500 miles in a week in a 987 with a former friend a few years ago in all sorts of conditions and still managed late 20s to early 30s!

Have been 911 curious for years.  Esp in the days when the 996 version was a cheap as chips.  When I retired , I went on the hunt for one - 911 were going through a purple patch and prices went on the up.  I couldn't bring myself to pay 35k or more for a 15 year old car.

Started to look and , and test drive Caymans - I could just fit in!  Wonderful noise, wonderful to drive - but the practicality is nil - and the thought of having to get in and out at French Peages , or after 150 miles to fill it up made me really look at the proposition.

you would have to go 997 gen 2 (or post 09 Gen 2 if you look at a Cayman).  IMS and bore scoring are a big issue and very expensive.  I had a friend you loved his 911 eBay purchase - until the IMS bearing went.  He sold the car for 8k after buying it for 19K.

Porsche don't own up to anything - but I believe in the USA there has been a class action against them.  The IMS bearing issue can be solved by drilling the bearing case so it is no longer starved of oil.   There are a few places that can do it - but it is possible 2.5k upwards to be done.

You would want PDK as well.

I then looked at Jag F types - but there is a huge, huge sill that you have to climb in over - and then also get out over.  Stunning looking and sound cars - much nicer interior than a 911.  But it wasn't a 911 - so I didn't buy.

I just ended up with a very fast soccer mom's SUV

I'd argue that if you want PDK, then you don't want a Porsche at all. Yes, it makes for lightning quick shifts and will shave half a second off a Nürburgring lap time, but it's ultimately joyless and uninvolving.

There's a google chrome plugin which tracks prices on autotrader. Very useful & informative. Prices are dropping across the board atm for all sorts of sports cars.

How TF are you only getting 15mpg out of a Boxster?<br />

Yeah I’m actually talking crap. A quarter of a tank gets me around 80 miles of b road driving, and looking at the car specs thats around 23 mpg

it does feel I’m constantly filling it up however!

The OP mentions the 924 from a visual perspective. I had a 924 and it was a surprisingly good road trip vehicle. I could fit all my camping gear and bike in the back and it was fun driving it along Welsh roads. Sure it wasn't very powerful but there is something to be said for driving a car without much power as it rewards you for reading the road and concentrating on driving. My current car has a mighty 106hp....

My 924 was an mechanical nightmare! It looked nice and I knew enough about its history to think it was a good buy. It was plagued with intermittent non-start issues which two garages could never fix. The headgasket went....twice. One day the car wouldn't turn off! Smoke started coming from the engine bay but luckily I was parking it in my garage and had tools there. I disconnected one of the battery terminals but IIRC the engine still ran. I think I just panicked and stuck the battery lead somewhere I shouldn't and with some sort of electrical 'bang' the engine shut off.

So I'd only buy 'classic' from a reputable source and have it inspected! Even if it does just have largely VW parts.

You could buy a late model 924S though. Same basic engine as the 944 of the time and many updated parts over the standard 924 while keeping the narrower body look. Depends if you are looking at new / newish or a classic. If classic, a mint low mileage 924S (if you can find one) would potentially be a better car for 'normal' people. 

Im currently running an RS4 V8

Legend.

Picture please.

The IMS bearing issue can be solved by drilling the bearing case so it is no longer starved of oil.   There are a few places that can do it – but it is possible 2.5k upwards to be done<br />

the usual fix is an aftermarket ceramic bearing which costs north of 650 quid. That’s for the part. It’s a clutch out job to fix (or it is for a 986), so you may as well replace that at the same time. If I was spending any sort of money on that vintage of 911 I’d be factoring in the ims replacement which on a boxster cost me over 3 k 8 years ago (I replaced the clutch at same time)

it’s not actually the parts that will ruin you if you have a Porsche, after market parts can be had for a decent price. It’s the labour costs. Main dealers are extortionate. If you can find a good Indy then that’s definitely the way to go.

i can also confirm the best part of Porsche ownership is the first week of ownership. The novelty of accelerating fast soon wears off, you can’t (and shouldn’t) be driving it fast on the roads, and then the bills start rolling in..

Do it. I bought a lovely 996 carrera 2 10 years ago for £9k unseen over eBay. It was a beauty and I enjoyed driving a thousand miles a month for three months before an oil spill on a damp day saw me slide into a lamppost on a dual carriageway and need cutting out of the car. On longer trips the most economical speed was 92 mph which returned 32.5mpg. I used to carry my road bike inside with the wheels off and in the froot. The insurance pay out was higher than purchase price due to the rise in vehicle values and it paid for part of my wedding.
FWIW the then fiancé had no idea what I was doing with an envelope full of fifties and thought it was shady drug deals. When I returned later that Saturday with a 911 she was not amused. She hated that car and the angriest I’ve ever seen her was when she had to drive cross country to get me out of hospital.
Was it quick? Yes if you kept your foot in.
Was it engaging? Very much so. On paper the now-wife’s m240i is more powerful and faster and yet the 911 was a much, much better place to get going and feel what was happening.
Would I do it again? Yes probably. Buy the car, drive it and if it’s not for you then sell it on. If you lose a bit of money then it’s probably no more than you would have lost in interest on a pcp over the same time.

I should also add that I’d have very fast motorbikes previously and whilst the 911 was fast, it wasn’t that fast.

That’s the thing for me with cars like the 911 - the first time I drove one, it was quick (and certainly quick enough to get into trouble on the road),  but not mind bendingly quick. Definitely a case of not meeting your hero for me as a long time 911 admirer. To get mind bending quick, you need to be driving a very high end super car/hypercar.  <br /><br />

* having said that i hanker after a Chimera but after driving one and realising its a horrible daily im struggling to part with my cash.

these days there are likely better options. z4? or TBH the boxster isn't a bad shout. all the chimaeras are old now though. i ran a chim for 4 or 5 years as my daily and did nearly 50k in my 4L. it was always an event but service intervals are 6k with an inevitable interim visit after something drops off. the ladder frames were made by arch IIRC, the same outfit that made caterham chassis. mine had welding after a few years. great gearbox. engine made a wonderful noise. the suspension was sorted and IMV drove/cornered better than a S2 elise i drove. the last gen TVRs were just fabulous though. tamora etc. very well mannered and easy to drive/flexible at low revs, but tip it over 6krpm and everything went batshit. great cars if you can maintain them.

a workmate recently disposed of his boxster after 180k. you never get the whole story from any owner of a sports car but it appeared to be a reasonable vehicle in terms of day to day cost.

before an oil spill on a damp day saw me slide into a lamppost on a dual carriageway and need cutting out of the car

And why would you not buy one after that endorsement …😂😬😳

I remember the first time I drove my boxster in the wet. The garage selling it had cheaped out on tyres and I almost ended up in a hedge accelerating off a round about. I replaced the very next day with something a bit more suitable..