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This is probably the worst episode of Moral Maze yet
Invite bob and his missus round for a roast.
Errm...
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication. I’m sure other professional bodies will have similar requirements
We're on smoko, leave us alone!
Solved it. The Op is Rob*. Where do I claim my £5.
*Conspiracy theory based on a rumour I heard at work.
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication
Possibly Rule 16 if the suggestion really were that they were having skiving when they were supposed to be at work and it were endangering patients - which is a bit of a stretch based on the facts. But Rule 20 - uphold the reputation of the profession? For consensual private conduct between two adults? Absolutely no way.
go to HR to get it sorted
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth ...
This is the scary thing about life, man, you’ve gotta decide for yourself.
Eh? So what is STW for, then ?
It’s the place where you learn all those moral things - like the equation of how old your girl/boy friend can be 🙂
Solved it. The Op is Rob*. Where do I claim my £5.
Plot twist...OP is the wife, the real Rob is a regular forum poster who is now trying to figure out where it all went wrong
Edit - or it's one of those posts where Rob is Israel and something to do with the Gaza Strip...
something to do with the Gaza Strip
Dancing round a roast chicken and a bottle of whisky whilst off your tits on coke?
Is she called Louise?
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication.
Ive seen several cases when this has happened. HR and management get involved. Both are usually sent to the far reaches of the service never to be seen again. Registerd nurses are often reported to NMC as well depending on circumstances
But Rule 20 – uphold the reputation of the profession? For consensual private conduct between two adults? Absolutely no way.
getting frisky in the car park when supposed to be working would appear to damage the reputation of nurses… of course that might not be what the OP meant with his opening post “Apparently he disappears at night to his car when she’s on shift “cause his back hurts””
having an affair is clearly not bringing nursing into disrepute; but antics in the car park when you are meant to be working would seem like it to me.
I think I’d rather be grumped at for feigning ignorance
I think this is a bit of a cowardly way out.
For me, it's a pain, but simple:
1) Tell your mate that there are rumours going around that he's knobbing Shirley. Ask him if it's true and say to him - if it's true, you need to sort the situation out as you know I'm good friends with your wife too and that puts me in a really difficult position.
2) Then you leave it for "a bit". It'll probably get sorted. You can pick up the pieces. If she asks you if you knew - you can say you'd heard a rumour, confronted him, asked him to sort it out of respect for you.
3) If it carries on for a long time (you decide) have another word and give him more time to sort it. If he refuses, then he's treating a mate of yours completely unacceptably when you've done the right thing. Ergo, he's not worth protecting.
HOWEVER: As someone else said, there's very rarely couple-friends where you don't have a primary loyalty. If he's more your mate than her, then you side with him, not her. Or vice-versa.
I think this is a bit of a cowardly way out<br /><br />
I don’t think it’s cowardly to refrain from setting yourself up as moral judge and jury over somebody else’s lives. I think it’s incredibly presumptuous to be talking about giving someone deadlines to conform to our ideas of morality.
I don’t think it’s cowardly to refrain from setting yourself up as moral judge and jury over somebody else’s lives.
@DrJ I think it's cowardly to ignore a friend who's being ****ed over. You're not doing what a friend should do.
The above is the moral judgement. I'm not making a moral judgement on him having an affair - all's fair in love and war eh? But if you're friends with the other party, and you're not looking out for them then the moral judgement I'm making is that you're not being a very good friend unless you attempt to help her out.
For me, in the situation as described, my hands would be tied. Morally, I'd have to act.
To show it from the other side:
I had two friends once who'd heard a girlfriend of mine was knobbing someone else. One of them told me as soon as he found out. The other had known for a while but didn't want to get involved.
I'm still friends with one of them.
I think it’s cowardly to ignore a friend who’s being ****ed over. You’re not doing what a friend should do.
I think we're repeating ourselves - well I am, at any rate. It's not up to you to impose your moral judgement and your clumsy solution on someone else's lives. @nickc said this better than me in this post, and similar ones:
They’re going to find out at some point. Affairs always end like that. So either one of two things happen, You throw a hand grenade into the middle of three people’s lives when they re totally unprepared for it and figurately walk away, you don’t have to deal with the consequences and fall out or the hurt and devastation that it causes, but get to sleep soundly at night in a sort of Kantian “truth must out” bubble, or the alternative is that three people destroy their own lives, or by themselves in a time that they choose, they figure it out amongst themselves and maybe resolve it without a fourth person who has no skin in the game whatsoever, sticking their oar in occasionally.
Affairs go on for decades. The unsuspecting partner is living a lie and they don't know it.
He's made a moral choice to not give a monkeys about his partner when he's knobbing someone else. Fair enough.
But it's still cowardly to not help a friend out when you know they're being ****ed over in one of the worst ways.
The solution is to give the person who's being a dick a choice - a choice to resolve it with the minimum amount of hurt to all parties, in whatever way they think best.
I'm glad that the person who knew my girlfriend was shagging someone else told me. Because whilst she was shagging someone else she was talking about having babies with me.
And if we'd had a kid - A) would it have been mine? and B) if it was and we split up - I'd have been financially liable for it.
So no. People don't have affairs in a moral vaccum to be ignored by other people. You are a coward if you don't help your friends.
if it was and we split up – I’d have been financially liable for it.
Well, yes. Of course you would. You would still love your child, regardless of what caused the split.
Way to miss the point @sc-xc. A child (and all of the emotional, financial and future-life aspects of that), born in a lie of a relationship, rather than one between two loving partners who could bring it up together?
I'm glad I had a friend.
A child which, regardless, is still presumably yours.
The rest is noise.
I think it's you who's missing the point.
The unsuspecting partner is living a lie and they don’t know it.
How do you know that they'd want to know? Just because you wanted to doesn't mean that everybody thinks that way.
How do you know that they’d want to know? Just because you wanted to doesn’t mean that everybody thinks that way.
The solution doesn't specify that they have to know. It just says to the cheating partner, "make sure you do the right thing" - and leaves it to them to decide what the right thing is.
And as for your second bit - I could second guess the whole world, or I could do what I think is the right thing. And on balance my money is on if people are being ****ed over by their partners they're likely to want to know.
But I'm off to the pub next weekend with about 15 of the family. I'll ask the question and take a straw poll. "If your partner was ****ing around on you, would you want to know so you could make a decision on what you wanted to do, or would you rather not know?"
🙂
Well this has been a wild ride. I’d grab a brew with Rob and bring up the rumours in conversation. See how he responds. At least then you’ll have a better understanding of what the **** is going on. Doing nothing or going straight to confrontation both seem like the wrong thing to me.
As an aside I once informed a close friend of an affair his then girlfriend was having. We remained friends and he was grateful after the initial yelling at me and getting upset. He stopped talking to a couple of other people that knew before I did and said nothing.
Stake out the car park and get some footage.
I could do what I think is the right thing. And on balance my money is on if people are being ****ed over by their partners they’re likely to want to know.
A counter-example from real life - a friend was pretty sure her husband was having an affair. She judged that it was likely a passing thing and that if she confronted him it would blow up and in the heat of the moment she'd run off with her, so she kept quiet and waited, confident that when he thought about it he'd realise where their best interests lay. After a while the affair blew over and they've been married for 20 years. Luckily they didn't have a "friend" who decided that his sense of what's "the right thing" was the most important factor.
Horses for courses @DrJ. (Although, it seems a stupid argument because she already knew, and decided to let it go. So if she had a friend who told her, she could still let it go, no?)
Either way - that's something already factored in to posts above and I wagered a majority would want to know.
I said I'd take a straw poll of my family and I will, but we can do it here too.
QUESTION: If your significant other is shagging someone else, would you want your friends to tell you if they knew? Yes/No.
YES.
or it’s one of those posts where Rob is Israel and something to do with the Gaza Strip…<br /><br />
in breaking news Rob has unexpectedly been penetrated by Gaza
Although, it seems a stupid argument because she already knew, and decided to let it go. So if she had a friend who told her, she could still let it go, no?
"Stupid"? Thanks for that. If her "friend" had told her she might have felt obliged to act differently.
Well this has been a wild ride. I’d grab a brew with Rob and bring up the rumours in conversation. See how he responds.
Quite. A number of people wading in here seem to have forgotten that it's just a rumour, and may not actually be true.
Quite. A number of people wading in here seem to have forgotten that it’s just a rumour, and may not actually be true.
Rumours 🤷🏼♂️, don’t worry about that. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. 🤣
Hypothetically, if OP and Emma had - at the age of 5 - discussed the possibility of discovering that the other person's future partner was cheating on them 35 years from then, and had explicitly agreed that in that situation they would like to be told, then OP would be duty bound to tell her. As that conversation never happened it's now up to OP to decide if Emma would think that was now an obvious unspoken rule after 35 years of friendship. On the balance of probabilities you woukd assume she would.
That said, it is only rumours at this stage, and would I want to be told about an unsubstantiated rumour with no evidence to back it up, probably not. I think the first thing anyone would want in that situation is some sort of proof.
So, next steps have to be talk to Rob, then provide hourly updates to STW
Meh, i've been "caught" having an affair.
Spotted at a restaurant on a date with another woman.
Fortunately it was more than a year after we'd separated, but we had kept it sufficiently low key that it probably took 3 or 4 years for the news to reach everyone we knew.
Also had someone approach me and another date, accusing her of cheating. As she was still living with her ex and the kids (couldn't afford to actually live separately). I'd actually met him and the kids, so no, she wasn't cheating. The nosy neighbour wasn't nosy enough to have worked it out.
Third time i got a text from a mate "When did you split up with your girlfriend? I've just seen her in the pub kissing what looks like her girlfriend."
Only response i could make was, "I'm at the bar, getting a round in."
That led to some interesting conversations.
I have close friends male and female that I have known 25-30 years that I absolutely have their back and if the rumour is true I know they would want to know. I'm close to these people. Open, trusting and honest friendships.
Of course in this situation the first thing to do is to check with him if its true and whats going on. Depending on the answer decides your next step but if she is a close friend and he is cheating? Tell her or tell him to tell her. I could not stand by and let a close friend be cheated on.
I'm beginning to see how Mills & Boon were so successful.
Fun fact: The Boon in the celebrated romantic authors, Mills & Boon, is in fact Clint Boon from the Inspiral Carpets
I’m off to the pub next weekend with about 15 of the family. I’ll ask the question and take a straw poll. “If your partner was **** around on you, would you want to know so you could make a decision on what you wanted to do, or would you rather not know?”
I can see this kicking off good and proper when Uncle John thinks you're giving him some jip cos he's schtupping the pretty girl in accounts...
Incidentally, I notice OP hasn't been back on... And everyone getting overexcited, but OP has done a runner
Fun fact: The Boon in the celebrated romantic authors, Mills & Boon, is in fact Clint Boon from the Inspiral Carpets
and if my memory serves… the Mills is Heather Mills from Wings
I notice OP hasn’t been back on… And everyone getting overexcited, but OP has done a runner
Top notch thread starting
OP confronted friend who decided OP would make a good foundation for the patio he is making at his new love nest
Or OP consoled the friends wife and is now in the midst of his own affair?
QUESTION: If your significant other is shagging someone else, would you want your friends to tell you if they knew? Yes/No.
I'm reasonably confident that the vast majority of people would answer yes to this question.
Whether in practice it would be in their own best interests is a different matter entirely. Being lied to is a shit situation but it's not a potentially life-changing event for multiple people. Ignorance, as the saying goes, is bliss.
Full disclosure for those assuming the boy doth protest too much: I was unfaithful once, decades ago. I'm not going to make excuses but there were mitigating circumstances (it was a long-distance relationship and we saw each other maybe twice a year; also I was young, stupid and horny). I couldn't deal with the guilt, I fessed up shortly afterwards. The relationship didn't last much longer but to be honest it'd pretty much run its course anyway, we'd grown up and grown apart.
Would I want to know today if I was being cheated on? Probably, yes. But I think I'd be considerably more ****ed off is she was spending time with and/or sleeping with someone else instead of me rather than as well as me.
Would I want to know today if I was being cheated on? Probably, yes. But I think I’d be considerably more ****ed off is she was spending time with and/or sleeping with someone else instead of me rather than as well as me.
Yep. TBH the older I get the more I wonder why sex/intimacy has to be tied up with monogamous relationships as opposed to a leisure activity.
As this seems to cause a whole lot of grief in peoples lives.
Fun fact: The Boon in the celebrated romantic authors, Mills & Boon, is in fact Clint Boon from the Inspiral Carpets
Not impressed
I’m off to the pub next weekend with about 15 of the family. I’ll ask the question and take a straw poll. “If your partner was **** around on you, would you want to know so you could make a decision on what you wanted to do, or would you rather not know?”
I can see this kicking off good and proper when Uncle John thinks you’re giving him some jip cos he’s schtupping the pretty girl in accounts…
It’s at this point you find out the family history that no-ones told you and you’ve been blissfully un-aware of all the goings on and behind doors drama over the years 🙂
It’s at this point you find out the family history that no-ones told you and you’ve been blissfully un-aware of all the goings on and behind doors drama over the years
Are we related?
Yep. TBH the older I get the more I wonder why sex/intimacy has to be tied up with monogamous relationships as opposed to a leisure activity.
"We've always done it this way"?
There's probably elements of security and of survival. The historical family unit is the breadwinner and the homemaker. The woman is screwed financially if the man leaves, and she needs to squeeze out as many offspring as possible due to a high mortality rate (and religion recognising the importance of pre-made believers).
I rather suspect that this attitude is changing generationally. With the traditional model, on your own you don't get any sex, in a long term relationship you spend a lot of money to still not get any sex and are no longer allowed to do it with anyone else. Based on what snippets I overheard from back when I had apprenti in their late teens, the Yoot Of Today don't really think like that any more (though of course, anecdotes <> evidence).
It’s at this point you find out the family history that no-ones told you and you’ve been blissfully un-aware of all the goings on and behind doors drama over the years 🙂
Get them all round for Christmas and a game of Never Have I Ever in the evening.
Yep. TBH the older I get the more I wonder why sex/intimacy has to be tied up with monogamous relationships as opposed to a leisure activity.
As this seems to cause a whole lot of grief in peoples lives.
Hormones. We are all slaves to them. Men women and inbetween. We attempt to rationalise hard wired behaviour triggered by hormone releases. Its all from Evolutionary pressure.
Then we build a moral framework around that - based on the false assumption there is anything rational behind it all.
But its just chemicals reacting in these big wet fleshy things we call people
Fun fact: The Boon in the celebrated romantic authors, Mills & Boon, is in fact Clint Boon from the Inspiral Carpets
He partnered with the former Mrs Paul McCartney, Heather Mills. Apparently they came up with the idea while chatting backstage at a Happy Mondays gig about their love of bonkbusters
The historical family unit is the breadwinner and the homemaker.
It's not, though. This is a modern, postindustrial "norm".
You're probably right. But I have little frame of reference much further back, I don't recall my older relatives reminiscing about about when they used to live in communal caves eating brontosaurus burgers.
Societies evolve, albeit perhaps far too slowly.
World just got weirder. Just found out about polycules.
All bets are off...
World just got weirder. Just found out about polycules.
All bets are off…
Spent two years in one.
Third time i got a text from a mate “When did you split up with your girlfriend? I’ve just seen her in the pub kissing what looks like her girlfriend.”
Only response i could make was, “I’m at the bar, getting a round in.”
That led to some interesting conversations.
The whole experience was interesting, and a lot of fun.
I rather suspect that this attitude is changing generationally.
I think even young people generally find monogamy the norm (although the only people I’ve encountered who were openly polygamous are all <40).
With the traditional model, on your own you don’t get any sex,
Sex has been available on a transactional basis since long before any of us were born.
in a long term relationship you spend a lot of money to still not get any sex
I’d suggest you are doing the long term relationship wrong then - perhaps resentful cohabitation rather than relationship.
and are no longer allowed to do it with anyone else.
That is the basis people enter a marriage on, I’m sure there’s ways to resolve that if you don’t like it but it really needs both people to accept the solution not one to sneak off.
Based on what snippets I overheard from back when I had apprenti in their late teens, the Yoot Of Today don’t really think like that any more
i think they still recombines the concept of cheating? They might be more likely to ditch someone early and view relationships as temporary but generally only one at a time?
But I have little frame of reference much further back,
...or in many other parts of the modern world?
Get them all round for Christmas and a game of Never Have I Ever in the evening.
I've relatives who still can't seem to say 'lesbian' or 'her girlfriend' without a whisper and a judging head shake.... And that's 40 years after she came out...FFS.
Mind, I think she and I would enjoy torturing some of our relatives....
What’s happened to the OP? I need the lowdown on what’s happening with Emma and Rob!
Omnibus edition on Saturday.
Rob caved his head in.
Omnibus edition on Saturday.
Oldest storyline ever, isn’t this what soaps sort of exist on.
Take the old in-out of the equation and they would struggle to exist 🙂
I’ve relatives who still can’t seem to say ‘lesbian’ or ‘her girlfriend’ without a whisper and a judging head shake…. And that’s 40 years after she came out…FFS.
Mind, I think she and I would enjoy torturing some of our relatives….
One of my previous Next door neighbours had a ‘sister’ that was actually her other sisters daughter.
Poor update:
Still not been to work; leave, job interview, uni course, days off etc.
Managed to bump into the queen of gossip in b&m (needed some grey crushed velvet cushions and a Bluetooth speaker with floating fish).
Gossip queen reckons it's all gossip.
Went to see woman friend, nothing to note.
Saw man friend. Nothing unusual other than the health kick and time out exercising. Had all the kids with us so it wasn't a time to bring it up.
Working this weekend finally. I'll get more of an idea of what's what.
I'll find time to meet man friend and tell him the rumours and he needs to address them.
Take it from there.
Told you it was boring.
Very good update: highly plausible and keeps us on the edge of our seats for another week. 10/10.
^^^ gets things back on track. I don't usually look at these human interest threads (lack of interest...) But this one won't die. The smooth transition from family drama to middle-aged swinging on this page I'd call disconnecting.
The smooth transition from family drama to middle-aged swinging on this page I’d call disconnecting.<br />
I read it as old men humble bragging that they’d once had sex.
needed some grey crushed velvet cushions
No one needs grey crushed velvet cushions.
Heather Mills from Wings
Very good
Not a very exciting update, but at least we got to see a picture of Mick with his teeth in 🙂
Probably best not mention to mate(s) that they got 238+ posts on STW 🙂
nickc
Full Member
needed some grey crushed velvet cushionsNo one needs grey crushed velvet cushions.
I agree. Vile. What about the Bluetooth speaker with floating fish?
dudeofdoom
Full Member
Probably best not mention to mate(s) that they got 238+ posts on STW 🙂
No, best not. He's a sensitive soul.
“Working this weekend finally. I’ll get more of an idea of what’s what”.
Well?