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How do people know Le Pen is no good if they don’t give her a chance?
Because history tells us bad shit happens when you have right-wing extremist leaders in power?
Yeah, she might one of those benevolent nazis.
She might be nationalistic but I doubt she can behave like nazis. No one is that foolish.
That is top drawer trolling right there. Or utter stupidity, difficult to tell. Now where’s that meme with the lad out of futurama gone…
How do you know she is no good if she is not even in power to govern? Where is the proof that she will be nasty? She can easily be kicked out in a term if she tries to be nasty.
Because history tells us bad shit happens when you have right-wing extremist leaders in power?
When was the last time they have "right-wing extremist leaders"? Napoleon Bonaparte? Is he right-wing extremist or nationalist?
The size of macron’s victory is clearly a result of left wing voters voting against Le Pen with gritted teeth (as they always were going to do).
Not really. A majority voted for Le Pen or not at all.
Not sure why people are so afraid of voting so called “right wing” candidates, it is not as if they can install themselves (herself) forever.
You might want to do a bit of research into what happened after (checks notes) Adolph Hitler was elected in Germany....
Or look at Russia for a more recent example
You might want to do a bit of research into what happened after (checks notes) Adolph Hitler was elected in Germany….
Or look at Russia for a more recent example
How can France be compared to Germany or Russia?
France actually executed their King! (UK did as well)
Now that Le Penn has had to pay back all that money to Putin
the FN are in a lot of trouble
also of note that the Putin & Orban loving Prime Minister Janez Jansa got booted out today too
Vlad having a bad day at the polls
Now that Le Penn has had to pay back all that money to Putin
the FN are in a lot of trouble
also of note that the Putin & Orban loving Prime Minister Janez Jansa got booted out today too
Vlad having a bad day at the polls
Looks like one set of ideology ("right" if that is an ideology) is getting a good kicking?
She might be nationalistic but I doubt she can behave like nazis. No one is that foolish.
**cough** friend of Trump, friend of the Brexies, friend of destabilisation everywhere, Vlad P **cough**
(Well he’s certainly looking a bit like a latter day Führer)
PS - Russia also (just like France and GB - or maybe England, it was never really clear) killed their monarch.
France actually executed their King! (UK did as well)
Whereas Tsar Nicholas the Second lived to a ripe old age, yeah?
Whereas Tsar Nicholas the Second lived to a ripe old age, yeah?
We all know what that the Bolshevik did to his family but I am focusing on EU/UK rather than the Russia.
Is monarchy right wing?
**cough** friend of Trump, friend of the Brexies, friend of destabilisation everywhere, Vlad P **cough**
(Well he’s certainly looking a bit like a latter day Führer)
Are they nationalistic or patriotism? Are they the same evil?
Are people supposed to be ashamed of identifying themselves "strongly" as from a particular nation? i.e. nationalistic/patriotism flag waving etc?
Are they nationalistic or patriotism? Are they the same evil?
It's really not hard to understand:
Russia's been funding extremist political movements in Europe for quite some time now, with a view to destabilising societies here. For example, Russian sourced donations to Britain's Conservative Party came to less than half the cost of a T-14 tank, you can see how effective this has been.
No you have not answered the question.
Nationalism and patriotism are they different or the same? Both evil?
It’s really not hard to understand:
Can't access FT.
Question is whether the default ideology should be "left" or is there some sort of pendulum that swings according to "seasons"?
No you have not answered the question.
Your point wasn't abundantly clear. We all know what that the Bolshevik did to his family but I am focusing on EU/UK rather than the Russia.
Is monarchy right wing?
Nationalism and patriotism are they different or the same? Both evil?
Odd question. The answer is that nationalism and patriotism can be repackaged and co-opted as potent populism.
Question is whether the default ideology should be “left” or is there some sort of pendulum that swings according to “seasons”?
Again I'm not sure what your point is here - and if I interpret that last sentence correctly then I did answer that point in my previous post - Russia has been supporting political extremists financially for some time, which have clearly influenced the political landscape.
The problem isn’t that Le Pen is “right wing” now, is it. Please don’t tar all right wing politicians and political thinkers with the smelly shitty stick shared by Putin, Farage, Trump, the AfD and Le Pen. The right is lost if they embrace these people as their figureheads. She is the kind of politician that right and left alike need to vote against, even when the alternative isn’t to their liking. They will rip their countries apart, turn people against any groups that can be othered, and welcome all that damage as success.
"How do people know Le Pen is no good"
"When someone tells you what they are, believe them"
Why do people indulge chew's bullshit?
Any idiot with Google can read up on who she is, who her family are and what they've represented for a very long time.
Why do people indulge chew’s bullshit?
Most of the questions I ask required some answers as it is good to know the view points out there because we don't think alike.
Any idiot with Google can read up on who she is, who her family are and what they’ve represented for a very long time.
Her father might be a right wing politician but surely she knows going to the extreme is foolish? Can she be different from her father?
Again my question is whether the default has to be "left" ideology? What is your view on this? Is everything now has to be "left" to consider "good"?
Nationalism and patriotism are they different or the same? Both evil?
On the whole, yes absolutely.
On the whole, yes absolutely.
How so?
Because.
Is everything now has to be “left” to consider “good”?
Well for me, yes, because that's my position. It wasn't randomly allocated to me at birth, I decided that was what I wanted to see.
Next time, with no Macron in the race, will be interesting. Will Macron play his second term as "I don't need to worry about re-election so I will do what I want", or will he try to address the issues that Le Pen has been purporting to care about? Who will be her challenger?
She could be in a better position by 2027.
Her father might be a right wing politician but surely she knows going to the extreme is foolish? Can she be different from her father?
Again my question is whether the default has to be “left” ideology? What is your view on this? Is everything now has to be “left” to consider “good”?
This took a decidedly odd turn. Put it this way, if your only sources of news are the likes of Breitbart and other alt-media outlets funded by the same shady folk who've poured money into MLP's campaign then it's highly likely that you'll be receptive to extreme policies that ultimately will be against your own interests. The phenomenon of a wider public being receptive to a range of policies is known as the Overton Window.
She could be in a better position by 2027.
Without Putin's funding she may struggle
Macron seems to be hated equally by the loony left and the loony right, so he's probably getting it about right.
Her father might be a right wing politician but surely she knows going to the extreme is foolish? Can she be different from her father?
She had pretty extreme views herself which she has moderated over the last decade. With the exception of her proposed hijab ban, this campaign was pretty much fought on cost of living / leveling up agenda (with a the EU blamed for all of France's ills). Very hard to believe she has genuinely changed her spots so to speak, more like just toned it down a bit to get elected.
The real far right candidate this time, Eric Zemour, polled something like 7% in the first round. Although possible him being much more openly far right made her look much more moderate. His campaign took a big hit when he opposed France taking any refugees from Ukraine.
We watched the presidential debate last Wednesday. She came across pretty well, although a lot of her ideas didn't make any sense.
Rachel Shabi certainly has an opinion there. 👍
A lot of her policies are just non nonsensical eg one of the first points in the debate was about fuel costs for which she blamed her EU for and her solution was to leave the EU energy trading bloc. Macron then pointed out that currently France imports 12 GW of electricity (the max the inter-connectors can deliver) to avoid blackouts as half their fleet of nuclear reactors are offline for critical maintenance. They've been asking industry to reduce power at certain times to keep the lights on, on the radio the other week Carrfour was switching off freezers at certain times to help balance their grid.
Le pen represents the French version of the NF. If you need explaining why this is bad, you're a ****ing idiot. Or a racist. Or a troll
How so?
You really need me to explain why nationalism and patriotism are bad? Over the past century millions have died at the altar of national pride. Many more have suffered injury, persecution, and poverty. Normal working people suffer while those at the top get richer and more powerful. All of this happens because we are coerced to identify with an ephemeral, and entirely fabricated nationality, rather than the real things that bind us together, such as common interest, mutual aid, and family and social bonds. In terms of societal development we're barely out of the stone age.
She could be in a better position by 2027.
If she continues her trajectory of increasing share during the tenure of the centrist incumbent, then that seems quite likely.
I hadn’t seen this when I replied last night.
How do you know she is no good if she is not even in power to govern? Where is the proof that she will be nasty? She can easily be kicked out in a term if she tries to be nasty.
I’ve tried to give you the benefit of the doubt of late, but this question is either exceptionally, childishly naive, or you’re trying to be some sort of edgelord and you know full well what you’re doing.
You can go online and read as much as you like about MLP and her policies, but I suspect that you’ve been at the alt-media sites again.
When was the last time they have “right-wing extremist leaders”? Napoleon Bonaparte? Is he right-wing extremist or nationalist?
Vichy France.
You really need me to explain why nationalism and patriotism are bad?
An excess of patriotism is bad, but there is a sense that it doesn't necessarily have to be. I'd say the difference is that patriotism is mostly a feeling that you live in a great place and wish that everyone else did as well, or feeling like you don't need to force it on others, whereas nationalism is always about securing more power and more prestige even if that means inflicting it on other countries.
Macron seems to be hated equally by the loony left and the loony right, so he’s probably getting it about right.
Or it could just mean he is halfway to crazy town.
Do you guys not see what chew is doing? Their modus operandi is clearly on display. On nearly every thread the pattern is the same. You cannot reason with bullshit, whatabouttery, stupidity, trolling etc. etc.
Comments that they've been right about a couple of issues on some threads just legitimise their crap.
I think chew would be most upset in having chewkw's views attributed to them.
Macron seems to be hated equally by the loony left and the loony right, so he’s probably getting it about right.
Or it could just mean he is halfway to crazy town.
Reforming their welfare state eg upping retirement age is highly contentious in any country let alone France, where being asked to work at all is considered an insult 😉
It's an odd situation in many ways, economically, France is doing very well - they recovered well from the pandemic with very low unemployment currently. Yet everyone is unhappy...
Yet everyone is unhappy…
This is France we're talking about. Last year I asked my good friend about vaccine hesitancy and the slow uptake in France. His response was there had to be a consultation with the doctor so the person felt more in control of their choice (which is understandable outside of a pandemic). He added that there was a very vocal part of wider society that was outwardly anti-vax even though many of those were probably getting it anyway. He said, "we are French, even if it was 100% safe and improved your quality of life, we'd still complain about the colour, or the name of it. We like to complain even more than the Brits"
'If she continues her trajectory of increasing share during the tenure of the centrist incumbent, then that seems quite likely.'
Alternative view is that she's reached a point that's as good as it's going to get, and there's noone else left that she can gain by pretending she's not a particularly nasty right winger anymore.
It wouldn't take a lot for a left wing candidate to overtake her if they can stop arguing amongst themselves... then she just drops to owning her long term 10% or whatever
Why do people indulge chew’s bullshit?
This has me beat too.
7% of Frenchies registered to vote in the UK, who voted in London on Sunday, chose Le Pen!
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52029390019_01cebe12a8.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52029390019_01cebe12a8.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2ngEdYB ]French voters in London[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
While 42% of French folks voting for LePen isn’t great. Macron beat her by 17%. By any measure in modern politics that is a *drubbing*
I’ve lost count of the amount of times one of the LePens is about to become President, and they never do