[Closed] Freind needs help with two year old speeding fine he knew nothing about!

the friend, if inclined to do the right thing, should contact the relevant fixed penalty unit, explain the situation and see what they say, but be prepared to send of payment and both parts of their drivers licence.

I think Id call up and just take the speed awareness course. Saves a lot of hassle and potentially invalid car insurance.

First off you're a tit for speeding, full stop.

Does statute barred work in these cases? Ok you'll have to wait for another three years but if they haven't found you and the rozzers haven't exactly been after you either.

A couple of years back out of the blue I got a letter from a collection agency who'd bought a debt I had with barclay card from when I was last an uni. I'd run up a grand on a credit card then moved to jersey and yadada they never caught up with me as I travelled and moved around a bit...settle down and electoral roll and all that I get the letter.

I wrote this standard letter http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2606811 never heard from them again 🙂

First off you're a tit for speeding, full stop.

Does statute barred work in these cases? Ok you'll have to wait for another three years but if they haven't found you and the rozzers haven't exactly been after you either.

A couple of years back out of the blue I got a letter from a collection agency who'd bought a debt I had with barclay card from when I was last an uni. I'd run up a grand on a credit card then moved to jersey and yadada they never caught up with me as I travelled and moved around a bit...settle down and electoral roll and all that I get the letter.

I wrote this standard letter http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2606811 never heard from them again

Your a tit for spending someone else money with no intention to pay it back. In the criminal top trumps I think theft beats speeding ....

More people die of speeding than of theft.

A couple of years back out of the blue I got a letter from a collection agency who'd bought a debt

Lowell?

More people die of speeding than of theft.

No-one dies of speeding. It's the sudden stop afterwards that's the problem.

do they ??
Let's see the statistics?

PS I am not condoning speedin in a 30 or a 40 limit ( I don't BTW). But someone casting the first stone, when they have just admitted proudly defrauding their credit card is a bit rich

speeding really isnt that bad, providing it's not excessive, and conditions permitting.

intentionally maxing a credit card then 'going on the run' is just a massively pikey thing to do 🙄 .

First off you're a tit for speeding, full stop.

12fifty - Member
First off you're a tit for speeding, full stop.

OP. Ordinarily if you ignore the first letter you get a second and then a court summons. I would imagine the gf threw the others away. Two choices are to do nothing on the basis the police authority have forgotten about it (its all on an automatic system) or to contact them explaining situation (I would go more with the gf never gave you the letter until now and/or it was in a box of stuff you never looked at). I imagine it will be more hassle for them to process it now given time that has passed than ignore it which is possibly why you never got chased.

do they ??
Let's see the statistics?

In 2010, 241 people were killed in crashes involving someone exceeding the speed limit and a further 180 people died when someone was travelling too fast for the conditions.

Still trying to find stats for theft-related murders in the UK, but I did stumble across this particular gem -

There is a total number of 765 people murdered in the UK each year. This number represents people who were murdered by homicide.

I'm not entirely sure I know what the difference is.

I would imagine speeding is as it sounds, breaking the speed limit and travelling too fast for the conditions would be still doing 70mph in dense fog or in the pelting rain. Not illegal but stupid all the same.

Still trying to find stats for theft-related murders in the UK

Doesn't have to be murder, bear in mind. People can have heart attacks from the shock (there was a hospital documentary on TV the other day where an old woman was in for exactly that).

people who were murdered by homicide

Are there other ways to be murdered?

Well, it seems that not being involved with a speeding car is more dangerous than being involved with one if pondo's stats are correct:

421 Deaths due to speed

765 Deaths due to murder (I suspect you're less likely to become a murder victim whilst driving quickly)

So has he only just opened the letter or has he had another letter? How does he know about it? If it's been to court without him being present he may has been issued with a fine which will not have been payed. SO he may find there is a warrant out for his arrest. Possibly.

I would imagine speeding is as it sounds, breaking the speed limit and travelling too fast for the conditions would be still doing 70mph in dense fog or in the pelting rain. Not illegal but stupid all the same.

That's the difference isn't it. One's illegal and the other is dangerous. Ie, if the speed limits are set appropriately, then driving above the speed limit will also be driving too fast for the conditions, by definition.

The alternative would be that you've just committed the heinous crime of driving faster than a number someone arbitrarily made up for no good reason, which would seem crazy, would it not?

Are there other ways to be murdered?

Homicide by murder.

What are the stats on barclays executives committing suicide because a customer has broken the bond of trust placed upon them.

We must remember that barclays are an organisation constantly striving for the betterment of mankind, and would not under any circumstances try to illegally manipulate money markets and commit massive fraud against everyone.

Are there other ways to be murdered?

Yep. There's 'bad' murdering and then 'good' murdering.

A lot of similar stuff was discussed a couple of weeks ago [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/flashed-doing-75-in-a-50-dual-carriageway-court-or-points ]Court or points[/url]

Your experience seems similar to mine, although mine was a much shorter timescale. It also seems to back up what I heard from someone who insists that he always ignores any speeding fines and they never chase him up. However, this was largely discredited by STW.

Personally, if I was you I would ignore it. If "they" really wanted you that would of found you out by now. Especially baliffs, if they have a debt issued by a court they are straight on it as there is no disputing it. I know this from several years ago because of working away, TV licence, fine, girlfriend used wrong bank acc, cheque bounced etc etc, at my door almost immediately, I knew nothing about it!

I wonder if there is a way of finding out if there has been a warrent issued.

The alternative would be that you've just committed the heinous crime of driving faster than a number someone arbitrarily made up for no good reason, which would seem crazy, would it not?

The motorway speed limit is exactly this - an arbitrary number - surely?

What is dangerous about doing, say, 80mph on a dry, empty, motorway? (Bit of an hypothetical question, I suppose: I can't recall seeing such a thing recently!)

First off you're a tit for speeding, full stop.

I debate this with you, but I don't have a megaphone loud enough for you to hear way up there.

I read 80% of motorists break the speed limit. That's a lot of tits I suppose.

That few?

I would be surprised if any motorist had never broken a speed limit at some point in their driving history.

To answer the OP's questions:

What should he do? Do the authorities write these sort of things off after a while?

He sort of assumes that after so long and so many chances for the system to catch up with him that it has 'gone away'

Go to Pepipoo and ask there.

The advice will probably be to go to local magistrates court and make a statutory declaration, and then the original fine can be reimposed with a guilty plea etc. Points are applied from the date of the offence so will be either expired or about to come off anyway.

Theoretically fines can be "written off" after a period of time, but this is only likely to happen with trivial amounts (not £1000), and after warrants for non payment have gone unanswered for a number of years. Its a brave man who is certain he won't come to the attention of the police (e.g. speeding, brake light out, or even at passport control - you know that "police desk" behind the border staff!) - get picked up late on a friday and you'll be in custody all weekend.

He also needs to be aware that there is a risk that if he didn't return his license for the points to be added that DVLA can revoke it (more letters in the bucket?) and then he can be prosecuted for no license.

As he is now aware of it - if he pretends he is not, then in six months time if the preverbial hits the fan he can't claim ignorance without risking perjury!

poly wins.

Just for interest sakes the 70mph limit was based on the capabilities of human reactions and a Ford Anglia... something tells me modern cars can stop a wee bit better than one of those.

The speed [s]patronisation[/s] awareness course I went on said that whilst cars have improved, human reaction is the more important part and that hasn't changed.

[img] [/img]

Where was the 'offence' committed, since Scotland has different laws to England & Wales.

Has he found the original NIP, which is where the driver has to declare it was him driving and thus admitting guilt?
If the offence was in Scotland you can ignore that as there is precedence in law that you do not have to admit guilt unless under caution and the case will automatically cancel after 6mths of the NIP.
If in England, ignore that and you have commited another offence, so they are then chasing you for 2 offences!!

something tells me modern cars can stop a wee bit better than one of those.

can modern humans react quicker?

[quote=footflaps said]I read 80% of motorists break the speed limit. That's a lot of tits I suppose.
That few?
I would be surprised if any motorist had never broken a speed limit at some point in their driving history.

I'd be rather surprised if it isn't more than that who speed every time they get in a car. Purely based on anecdotal observations of how many people I get sitting behind me when I drive at the speed limit in a 30.

Purely based on anecdotal observations of how many people I get sitting behind me when I drive at the speed limit in a 30.

Most speedometers aren't overly accurate and will over-read, so the indicated speed isn't necessarily the speed you're doing. Less of an issue at 30, but on a motorway it's possible to get all self-righteous about how you're doing 70 and everyone else is speeding when the reality is you're probably closer to 60 than 70.

Your a tit for spending someone else money with no intention to pay it back. In the criminal top trumps I think theft beats speeding...

I 'stole' £800 from the RBS in 1998 and you think that trumps doing 36 in a 30?

Are you serious!

Cougar - Moderator
The speed patronisation awareness course I went on said that whilst cars have improved, human reaction is the more important part and that hasn't changed.

Couger agree with your sentiments exactly.

I attended one and it was pretty useless but it did educate me in what actually classes certain types of roads.

They came out with this bollocks about stopping distance being the same as well.

The instructor was very anti cyclist as well, so were most of the class mind! The only road user you could be negative about.

I 'stole' £800 from the RBS in 1998 and you think that trumps doing 36 in a 30?

Yep. The £800 was a real loss which cost share holders / customers. The speeding didn't cost anyone anything.

Well, I've learnt something new today.

Committing a crime isn't too bad, so long as you stand next to someone that's done something worse.

Committing a crime isn't too bad, so long as you stand next to someone that's done something worse.

Speeding isn't a crime.

Speeding isn't a crime.

Yes it is.

from another thread:

you have confused "criminal offence" with "recordable offence" - it's not a recordable offence, but although it's a criminal conviction, you do not have your fingerprints and DNA taken, so it is NOT recorded on the Police National Computer. It is, of course, kept on your Driver Record by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport, and the DVLA/PNC link means that your driver history (including endorsements) is available online to the police. The criminal law and motoring law are NOT two distinctly different branches of the legal system anywhere in the UK (perhaps you are confused about the civil law?), and statute law just means law that is enacted by statute (i.e. Parliament) as opposed to the Common Law, which evolves through history through the judgements by competent Courts.

You will have lost the opportunity to go on the speed awareness course. I had this recently when I failed to register my car at a new address. I had registed my driving licence, they tracked me through that, but by the time the NIP arrived I just had to take the points.

Yep. The £800 was a real loss which cost share holders/customers.

LOL

The speeding didn't cost anyone anything.

But in all seriousness, speeding is stupid, speeding in 30's and 20's is just reckless.

so long as you stand next to someone that's done something worse.

So long as you stand next to someone whom you can claim has done something worse.

Couger agree with your sentiments exactly.

The one thing I took away from that course was how shockingly poor most people's roadcraft / theory was (in that room anyway). One lad fessed up that he didn't know any road signs apart from the half dozen he'd memorised to get him through the test. Practically no-one knew what a dual carriageway was, or any of the speed limits for road classifications beyond the motorway.

I don't know about a speed awareness course, what we need is a regular "do you actually know what the frank you're doing?" course.

12fifty...First off you are a thief!!!!...something that 90%* of the public, unlike speeders, are not. (*STW allows making up stats does it not?)

Yes that is much worse than 1mph over what the ACPO guidelines state for prosecution whilst speeding.

(*STW allows making up stats does it not?)

Yep, 80% of all STW stats are made up.

12fifty...First off you are a thief!

LOL

My friend says thank you to all those who have contributed to the original question. He said he is not bothered about all the chuntering about if stealing from a bank is a crime or not.

He is considering a trip to the police station.

I wonder if there are forums elsewhere, where all the guys who stole goods from me admit it and follow up with a good old smiley face?

Well anyway I know a few names to avoid in the classifieds, or do we support the fraudsters on there now?

He is considering a trip to the police station.

Although you, sorry, your friend, might not think they are on record for this, unless you have had any dealings with the police since, you might find that there is a warrant out for your arrest for non-attendance, non-payment of fine etc.

If you do go the local police station to 'fess up, suggest you avoid doing this on a Friday afternoon since, if there is a warrant out for you, you will be locked up until the court can process you on Monday morning.

First off you're a tit for speeding, full stop.

But in all seriousness, speeding is stupid, speeding in 30's and 20's is just reckless.

So you've never ever been faster than the posted speed limit, even by a couple of mph - not ever?

Either you've never driven, which makes you ill placed to comment on this thread, or you're a complete liar. Either way the word 'muppet' springs to mind.

Well anyway I know a few names to avoid in the classifieds, or do we support the fraudsters on there now?

Mmm, I thought that, one to avoid for sure. Stealing £800 (irrespective of the 'victim') actually being compared to speeding? Mental.

I'm loving that someone is seriously trying to defend credit card fraud by hiding behind someone who has been caught speeding. Both are criminal offences. One person is a thief and so stupid that they can't actually recognise that fact and one person is a speeder who should have known better but seems to be seeking advice as to how best to resolve their situation.

So you've never ever been faster than the posted speed limit, even by a couple of mph - not ever?

Either you've never driven, which makes you ill placed to comment on this thread, or you're a complete liar. Either way the word 'muppet' springs to mind.

In the statement "you're a tit for speeding" do I say I have never broken the speed limit? do I? Read it back to yourself if it helps.

Speeding is a tit like thing to do, if for instance you'd lost a child because someone was doing the best part of 40 down your street what would your response to casually shirking off the fact that driving over the speed limit is stupid thing to be doing?

Challenging the perception that speeding is a socially acceptable thing is just one way to make the roads a safer place for us all to be out cycling on.

credit card fraud

Jesus wept, forgetting about a credit card you got in university, travelling and moving around so much you don't receive any letters and letting the OP know that after 6 years bad debts are written of a statute barred has now escalated to credit card fruad now! You lot are ace!

[quote=Cougar said]The speed [s]patronisation[/s] awareness course I went on said that whilst cars have improved, human reaction is the more important part and that hasn't changed.

MRDA

You appear to be assuming that when I'm quoting a speed it's derived from the car speedo - as always the speedo got calibrated with a GPS when I first got the car (for the record it's almost spot on at 30 and actually only reads ~72 at a real 70, so nothing like the error usually claimed for speedos). I'm fairly sure that when people are catching me as I'm doing a steady 30 that they're speeding (conversely I don't tend to go as slow past cameras as most people).

Why was a 2 year old driving?

if for instance you'd lost a child because someone was doing the best part of 40 down your street what would your response to casually shirking off the fact that driving over the speed limit is stupid thing to be doing?

They've not lost a child because someone was driving at "the best part of 40" (whatever that means), they've lost a child because they've failed to adequately supervise them and teach them road sense.

To be fair though, that's not wholly surprising. When I was a lad, Darth Vader was on the telly teaching us to look right, look left and look right again. Kids of today, most of their parents don't have any basic road awareness so they've no hope really. Better just to leave them to run feral and shift the blame to the driver.

MRDA

Are you Max from Hart to Hart?

You appear to be assuming that when I'm quoting a speed it's derived from the car speedo

I am, because that's what most people do; though I wasn't referring to you specifically, I was generalising.

Challenging the perception that speeding is a socially acceptable thing is just one way to make the roads a safer place for us all to be out cycling on.

It is, although I'm not sure I'd trust your moral judgement if you concider a minor speeding offence to be greater than theft/fraud, victim and value aren't important.

flicker, habitual speeder, but as honest as the day is long 😉

piemonster - Member

Well, I've learnt something new today.

Committing a crime isn't too bad, so long as you stand next to someone that's done something worse.

Not really, when it comes to theft or harming someone, it's simple, don't do it, everything else, shades of grey 🙂

Well, that's another new thing today.

Yeh, soz about the theft, I forgot.

Edit, not in reply to the above post.

this got out of hand.

Like your friend, I have an *ahem* friend who may or may not have done this. I understand that he went back to said house and noticed that the letters eventually accumulated into a court summons for the original offence.

He however continued to ignore it, and it appears to have gone away. He recently had to attend a speed awareness course and no mention was made. The original offence was some years back and things may be different by now but I doubt it tbh...

Your experience may vary.

ps, My friend thought the awareness course was very good and the stopping distance bit was very instructive, he's a reformed character now.

"speeding really isnt that bad, providing it's not excessive, and conditions permitting."
One of the most anti social crimes there is. Be 1 mph or 100 over its the same. criminal and disgusting. I shall say no more for fear of a ban.

F******* typical STW thread though. whole point of the Op has been lost. Shall we start again?

Jesus wept, forgetting about a credit card you got in university

How did you forget? It's not like there's a delay between spending and needing to pay.

F******* typical STW thread though. whole point of the Op has been lost. Shall we start again?

No, we've got a good lynching underway.

Give over, these are the most entertaining, there's only so many log burner threads a man can take.....

Oh I dunno.

There's a CMD apologist thread just started up.

mattsccm - Member
"speeding really isnt that bad, providing it's not excessive, and conditions permitting."
One of the most anti social crimes there is. Be 1 mph or 100 over its the same. criminal and disgusting. I shall say no more for fear of a ban.

Great.

[quote=12fifty said]Jesus wept, forgetting about a credit card you got in university, travelling and moving around so much you don't receive any letters

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what happened, especially given:

I'd run up a grand on a credit card then moved to jersey and yadada they never caught up with me

[quote=Cougar said]

MRDA

I've no idea what you're referring to, but I probably should have put it in full as I was originally going to - when checking the attribution I found that MRDA is supposedly a standard acronym for "Mandy Rice-Davies Applies" and decided to be too clever (in case you've still not got it "well they would, wouldn't they?")

[quote=mattsccm said]"speeding really isnt that bad, providing it's not excessive, and conditions permitting."
One of the most anti social crimes there is. Be 1 mph or 100 over its the same. criminal and disgusting. I shall say no more for fear of a ban.

So how would you compare 71mph on the motorway with deliberately defrauding a bank out of a grand on the scale of criminality? If the motorway speed limit was 120kph (the likely metric equivalent if we ever metricated and still below the limit in many other countries) would 71mph be just as disgusting, or would a minor change in the law completely change things?

Original point to the thread? Was there an original point to the thread?

"well they would, wouldn't they?"

Aha.

One of the most anti social crimes there is. Be 1 mph or 100 over its the same.

71mph down an empty motorway at 3am is the same as going past a school at 120mph at 3pm. Sure, there's not a court in the land that would disagree with that one.

I shall say no more for fear of a ban.

That's not going to net you a ban, just a condescending roll of the eyes and shaking of the head. If you're really unfortunate there might even be some tutting.

Right OP.. What exactly does your friend have???

The system is basically..
Offence
S172 served to Registered keeper within 14 days (this is to I'd driver it's not the offer of points/course)
RK has 28 days to name driver
Named driver gets NIP to respond to, either points/fine, course, or court if serious enough.

This can all go adrift if addresses are in limbo at of around the time of the offence. Your v5 will have a DocRef number on it.
This is when the car was registered to the address shown. Was the offence pre or post this date?
Your friend needs to be really careful here.
Worst case scenario.
You haven't responded to anything, it's been through court and your friend has been banned.
Best case the police force are on a fishing trip.. If the S172 wasn't correctly served within 14 days the offence "times out" there's a template letter on the rac website to help with this.
I'd get your friend to get the details together and post up on pepipoo for some proper advice.......

In the statement "you're a tit for speeding" do I say I have never broken the speed limit? do I? Read it back to yourself if it helps.

So that makes you a tit then (or a hypocritical tit) 🙂

Speeding is a tit like thing to do, if for instance you'd lost a child because someone was doing the best part of 40 down your street what would your response to casually shirking off the fact that driving over the speed limit is stupid thing to be doing?

No I'd probably keep a better eye on my kids and not let them play in an area where there is traffic.

Challenging the perception that speeding is a socially acceptable thing is just one way to make the roads a safer place for us all to be out cycling on.

Err, roads were designed for cars, not cyclists.

Err, roads were designed for cars, not cyclists.

Really?

Most of the roads in Cambridge pre-date the invention of the motor car by some period....

That's the difference isn't it. One's illegal and the other is dangerous. Ie, if the speed limits are set appropriately, then driving above the speed limit will also be driving too fast for the conditions, by definition.

[b]The alternative would be that you've just committed the heinous crime of driving faster than a number someone arbitrarily made up for no good reason, which would seem crazy, would it not?[/b]

So no points came on the paper part of license to subsequent addresses?

Sorry. Im confused. Is she winding you up? File it. Bin.

Well, my friend* went to the local police HQ today to throw himself on their mercy as he drives a lot for work and needs to be squeaky clean when it comes to motoring.

The kindly desk Sargent checked the reg and name against the computer.

Nothing came up.

She then called the central processing unit who confirmed that the offence had been expired because the police did not prosecute within the appropriate time.

So my freind * is very very 😀

result!

You've beaten the system - well done!

You're [s]friends[/s] lucky day

Ok - you ignored my previous advice*! If bailiffs were knocking on the door looking for £1000 its not likely to disappear because the original speeding offence "expired"**; what's more if/when it eventually catches up with you the quality of your argument about not knowing is diminished when you tell them, "but Sgt Helpful told me three months ago the speeding had been dropped."

* feel free to ignore my advice, but I suspect from things he's posted elsewhere that Crankboy is actually a defence lawyer and has probably dealt with people who suddenly find themselves in a cell by burying their head in the sand.

** its quite likely that because you didn't respond to the NIP/s172 request that action was raised in the Magistrates' Court for failing to identify the driver. I don't know if the Central Ticketing people would even be aware of this; I'm fairly sure they won't know the penalty the court imposed.

Err, roads were designed for cars, not cyclists.

Err, thanks poly for your help but the police did not prosecute me.(Sod it, it was me).

They told me so today. They raised no action in relation to this offence. They checked and everything. No head in the sand here. I laid myself on their mercy and was told I had nothing to answer. End of.