[Closed] Freemasons - what's it all about?

I've still got my old gloves & apron which have never seen light of day for 15 years...
Listen, do you want to know a secret, do you promise not to tell, whoa oh closer, let me whisper in your ear, say the words you long to hear....

HAHAHAHA.
So many 'empty vessels' voicing their opinion/lack of knowledge on here!

You're a wizard now Harry

"Empty vessel"?? Is that like an atheist is to a Christian then? WTF did they fill you up with, essel?

of course we have no knowledge you are secretive
Can i join?
Where is the membership application?

He's definitely full of something.

[i]"Empty vessel"??[/i]
The 'vessel' being the head part. 🙄

See. You cannot be both a member of a secret society where iniates learn secrets... and then complain you are misunderstood...

Sad and inadequate and sexist.

Where is the membership application?

a) you have to be a little needy
b) you have to have an unsatisfactory sex life
c) you need to enjoy the company of other men, and like the odd ritual.

I have been asked in the past. I would rather nail my bollocks to a fence.

The 'vessel' being the head part

...so what do they fill the head part with? Enlightenment like a buddhist? Or knowledge like errr, a cabbie?

[i]I would rather nail my bollocks to a fence[/i]

Now that would be funny. Not part of the initiation ceremony, but funny.

You cannot be both a member of a secret society where iniates learn secrets... and then complain you are misunderstood..

Oh that is so perfect - well done Stoatsbrother 8)

Why all this toss about '"Empty vessel" it seems like some in-joke for the masons. But i guess these little secrets are what its all about

[i]...so what do they fill the head part with? Enlightenment like a buddhist? Or knowledge like errr, a cabbie?[/i]

Naa, It's more of 'an enlightenment', you know, demonstrating the morals of life & stuff.
Actually now you mention it, one of the members was a cabbie. (well he owned 2 taxis if thats the same thing.

I've never actually heard 'empty vessels' mentioned before, dunno what it relates to.

I've never actually heard 'empty vessels' mentioned before, dunno what it relates to.

Yeah, sure.

first rule of of fight club 🙄

[img] [/img]

Naa, It's more of 'an enlightenment', you know, demonstrating the morals of life & stuff.

but earlier in the thread:

well, I was invited early this year, only went once! I found the racist, sexist, and other unpleasant forms of humur a bit much - but that's just me.

All lodges not created equal 😕

So anyway, sounds a bit like church but with no birds, no hymns, a bar and fewer needy/crazy hangers-on. Where can I sign up? 😀

Well it is a church

from here

http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/artoct02/letter.htm

One can no more keep secret the idea that God is the very warp and woof of Freemasonry than that he is the essence of all life. Take God out of Freemasonry, and there is, literally, nothing left; it is a pricked balloon, an empty vessel, a bubble which has burst.”

[i]All lodges not created equal[/i]

Probably correct IMO

[i]So anyway, sounds a bit like church[/i]

Definately not.

CharlieMungus, defo don't recall the mention of 'empty vessels'
but I might have been asleep.. 😳

Oooh, the Mason got the wunundred...

...hmmmm

CharlieMungus, defo don't recall the mention of 'empty vessels'
but I might have been asleep..

It's from the Introduction to Freemasonry

[i]It's from the Introduction to Freemasonry[/i]
Well you know more than me then. How come you've taken such an interest?

Well you know more than me then.

How come you've taken such an interest?

Just the usual not putting up with BS

i found a copy of the wee book that they must get in the attick of a house i bought.

is that how you spell attick?

I think it varies from place to place, I know members who've moved about and disliked/preferred new branches etc. From what I gather it's a bit of a social group with people who help each other out in various ways, however nothing as sinister as is made out by those who like to exaggerate and scorn. All of the members I know well enough to comment on are not racist, sexist and are quite nice folk with no real connections worth talking about.

you are in the masons coffeking i oddly have thought this before now.

you are in the masons coffeking i oddly have thought this before now.

Am I? Christ, I joined without knowing! 🙂

whatever though..
yeah your name was in this wee book anyways. 😀

Christ, I joined without knowing!

That's how secret it is ...... [i]you[/i] are not even allowed to know.

Not sexist yet excluding women?

whatever though..yeah your name was in this wee book anyways.

I've absolutely no idea how to answer that. I'll stick with bemused 😯 😀

Not sexist yet excluding women?

The people themselves are not sexist, no, most of them have been in positions of authority in businesses etc and have never been known to unfairly discriminate against females rising the ladder etc. FWIW they do have many wives events and social events including partners, but that's as much as I know - no point me discussing it further as know no more.

As, I suppose, with scouts - for a long time it was boys only, not through any inherent sexism of any of the scouts themselves.

Not sexist yet excluding women?

Well, yeah women obviously! 🙄
But not sexist against anyone else

my mrs used to be a member of a golf club that had a men only bar, i mean why else does one go to the bar?
i just dont get it.

As, I suppose, with scouts - for a long time it was boys only, not through any inherent sexism of any of the scouts themselves.

Do they play British Bulldog, like what we did when I was in the scouts ?

Do they play British Bulldog, like what we did when I was in the scouts ?

Dunno! We played that too. As we got older it progressed to who could withstand having a chair thrown at you and who could climb up onto the 4th storey roof fastest. Best game was building a mountain of tables and chairs to reach the ceiling of the 4 storey hall and stand on top.

Health and safety? no chance.

julianwilson - Member

"Empty vessel"?? Is that like an atheist is to a Christian then? WTF did they fill you up with, essel?

vinegar.

Freemasons like members of any other club, society or association are subject to every Law of the Realm.

That's fine. but I don't know what it means. I'm in a club I've created and I've no idea what [i]

every Law of the Realm

who says these things! the law of the realm!!

I wish masons really were lizards. All the ones I've had the pleasure of meeting are snakes. Oh, and complete bell ends.

I wish masons really were lizards. All the ones I've had the pleasure of meeting are snakes. Oh, and complete bell ends.

Um, got up on the wrong side of bed GlitterGary or have you had an unfortunate experience with one of them there masonites? 😀

I've met 2 people I know are masons.

First guy is an absolute arse, really blatent about it, I'm in the masons, blah blah, my connections, blah blah, always wears the ring and the tie etc etc. Complete nob. Actually, I would not be surprised if we was not in it at all he's such a wnker.

Other guy is pretty normal, does a fair bit on international travelling for his work so as he says no matter where he is there is someone to go and have a drink with, and thats pretty much it.

My paternal grandfather was the head of a lodge in Crawley. My old man fell out with him over it, after his dad tried in indoctrinate him into it.

Me? I can't see what all the fuss is about. Not my cup of tea.

it seems a bit of a broad brush approach is going on here with regards to what masons are like and the general consensus seems to be quite negative. Now i’ve met guys out mountain biking who I would gladly talk to and others i’d avoid like the plague but I do not generalise and say all mountain bikers are bad just because I have met a few dodgy characters.
In all groups and walks of life you have the good bad and ugly and I don’t believe you can make a judgement on the few you have met, yes you will have those that join for the wrong reasons believing that they will get a helping hand at every corner and that it’s a status symbol that shouts i’m better than you, but that is a minority in my opinion as all those I have met over the years haven’t fallen into that category.
As for wanting to know more about freemasonry forget all the conspiracy theories that seem to surround freemasonry and research the subject with an open mind, hell find out where the local lodge is and go in for a chat and ask all the questions you want.

Now i’ve met guys out mountain biking who I would gladly talk to and others i’d avoid like the plague but I do not generalise and say all mountain bikers are bad just because I have met a few dodgy characters.
In all groups and walks of life you have the good bad and ugly and I don’t believe you can make a judgement on the few you have met

This is true, however, anyone I've ever met or heard of, who has had any interaction with the masons, when they themsleves are not masons, and particularly where two or more are gathered, has had a bad experience of it. So, whilst it might not be appropriate to generalise in the mtb case, the Bayesians amongst us can pretty sure that the Masons are a bit dodgy.

have you had an unfortunate experience with one of them there masonites?

Is there any other kind?

i’m split on this one as evidential probabilities are all good and well but this only gives you a partial snap shot not a true reflection of the whole. Could all the negative comments from non masons who you mention be related to either jealousy (for want of a better word) that they themselves have never been approached or the feeling that they are missing out on some great secret.

as a wise man once said to me:

'the freemasons? oh yeah that just a bunch of men getting together for the kinda sex they're frumpy old wifes wont let them have at home'

think he was a member for years but then left or something...

i used to work at the building the masons use near me, the guy running the building admitted to me he owed close to quarter of a million in tax... his father owned the building and was (from what i understood) a high level chappy in the masons that met there.... nothing happened with the tax....

*insert creepy music*

EDIt - that makes me seem super anti-masons... just adding to the uninformed rubbish part of the thread, i dont actually care what they get up to, there's a lodge a few doors down from my old guitarists house and we used to park there, never got told to bugger off so if they provide free off-road parking then i suggest there should be one next to every town centre 😀

Police officers have trouble making real world friends,

You really have trumped yourself with that particular gem. It speaks volumes about your issues with the police more than anything else in this thread.

I was asked to join once, but the invite was mysteriously withdrawn when they found out I was Catholic. Also, when I got my nipple out at the local mason's lodge, the Grand Wizard tried to put his ring on it. I couldn't get out of the door fast enough, with one trouser leg rolled up.

I guess they're not all bad

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Is it me or is this 100+ post thread missing a few of the more 'regular' forumites? I can't believe a few of the usual ranty/witty folk didn't have some two-penneth or other to put in. Was it 'lodge night' last night or something?

I guess they're not all bad

what about this one...?

[img] [/img]

i’m split on this one as evidential probabilities are all good and well but this only gives you a partial snap shot not a true reflection of the whole. Could all the negative comments from non masons who you mention be related to either jealousy (for want of a better word) that they themselves have never been approached or the feeling that they are missing out on some great secret

[i]Not sexist yet excluding women?[/i]

http://www.womenfreemasonsusa.com/history.html

Probably like the W.I. Not sexist but excluding men.

Ha ha, good one, Marilyn Mason!

some info here
http://www.myspace.com/mashiach.watchman/blog/507793347
it seems some guy called Lucifer is their Great architect?

Not in myself.
What a load of crap spouted above. one of biggest givers to charity in the uk. possibly the biggest.
One thing I must say though is that if given 2 candidate for a job. 1 you know and 1 you don't , only a complete moron would ignore the personal knowledge .

You are right only a moron would ignore who was the best candidate and would go for the person in the same club as them. It is indicative of the real reason , many suspect, people join. For personal profit rather than charitable endeavour.
They are the second biggest after the National Lottery so I assume it is fair to call them the largest givers to charity to some degree.
that info is on the website but there is no information on how to join.

[i]One thing I must say though is that if given 2 candidate for a job. 1 you know and 1 you don't , only a complete moron would ignore the personal knowledge .[/i]

When I went for my interview for my current job there were two interviewers. One of them, it transpired & totally by accident, was the brother (like as in family, not masonic brother)of a guy I knew. The other said. 'i see on your application form you list your pastimes & interests as mountain biking &... (blahdy blahdy blah), What bike do you ride? A short converstaion ensued on the good/bad points of Orange, Marin, Trek, etc.
Guess what, I got the job.

Having been a (young!) mason for best part of 8 years now im probably in a fairly good position to comment.
Firstly, the negativity on here is laughable. I heard the same theories before I joined and was intreagued to find out the truth, which is a lot less exciting than you may be lead to believe.

As already mentioned above (by perhaps one of our more open minded members) there are dodgy characters in all walks of life - members on here included im sure. Masonry is not exempt of dodgy blokes but it does do its best to exempt them, and if any member does cross the line morally or legally they are barred. I have witnessed this happen.

In a nutshell masonry does a lot more good than any perceived harm. Its hundreds of thousands of members (UK) all contribute to chrarity at every meeting. Local and national charities all benefit. Charity fund raising events are organised, and during a meeting a large proportion of time is spent discussing how much money has been raised and how much more could be raised with a little more effort.
It also does indeed serve as a gathering/social place for our OAP's - keeping them in conversation and giving them something to do - hardly anything wrong with that?
Younger members also arrange other social events - BBQ's - golf days - go-karting, you name it - all of these events raise money for charity.

Yes - freemasonry is the second largest contributor to charities in the UK.

During most meetings, ritual practice is carried out (the secretive bit), which is where the grown up Scouts/Cubs bit comes in to play. I agree, it is like scouts for men. Anything wrong with that? Men bonding? People striving to acheive a goal and earn a modicum of respect from fellow members as a result? Hardly worth lambasting.
ALL of this practice is readily available on the internet as are ALL of the passwords and handshakes. Most of the negative folk cant be bothered to find out for themselves.

Essentially, its a club for (mainly decent) men to gather, drink beer, have food cooked for them, dress smartly, make contacts within trade/business, socialise, carry out some pomp & ceremony (which the British are best at), and raise a SH!T LOAD of money for charity.
Hardly cloak & dagger.

Of course someones uncle's neighbours mate's butcher from the pub was a dodgy geezer whom apparently got away with something that couldnt be explained - that only happens to Mason's, right?
Jeesh.

And to the fella who found it sexist & racist - My lodge has asian and black members whom would disagree - as would the women in women's freemasonry.
Perhaps you happened to be invited to a lodge where (shock/horror) some members were a bit old school.
Perhaps try another lodge where the members would be different. As in most clubs/societies, the members all have different personalities, and masonic lodges are all individual.
Or you could just man up.

Why the secrecy? Why not?! It's cool to hear the tongues wagging.. (despite nothing really being secret).

Masonry is not exempt of dodgy blokes but it does do its best to exempt them

Read up on the Birmingham six case and try to convince me that nothing is secret. A point blank refusal to reveal the names of lodge members involved in the perversion of justice by members of the Birmingham force's serious crimes squad.

Perhaps you can tell us how many of the Met officers that took money from journalists are freemasons. No of course you can't because you're sworn to secrecy.

slimjim78 - Everything you have said has just confirmed my suspicions that Masons are completely and utterly, a bunch of mentalist weirdos. 😀

Why the secrecy? Why not?!

There are 2 main reasons to keep anything secret

Because it's ridiculous to the point of embarrassing you
Because it's sinister to the point of shaming you

And to the fella who found it sexist & racist - My lodge has asian and black members whom would disagree

Can Asian or black men not be sexist or racist? This is news to me!

LOL!

@ Edukator (ironic name) Birmingham 6? Yes, a total masonic cover up, the grand master told me so.
Fact is, our own government is involved in more cover ups every day than any masonic conspiracy you can spout.

@GaryGlitter - I tend to agree, mainly mentalists.

@ iDave - Did I not say that freemasonry was like Scouts for grown ups? Im happy to admit to scouts being a midly emabarassing past time - woggles and all that jazz. so willing to accept masonry in the same vein. Im sure you dont have any secrets though - best not go routing through your drawers eh
TBH, the secrecy thing is just part of the ritual stemming back from hundreds of years of tradition. Its just members being true to their values/traditions. The origins of masonry supposedly stem from a founding member giving his life rather than divulging passwords to villains whom had struck a mortal blow. Its about being true to the value of remaining true! As explained MANY time above, there are actually NO SECRETS, its all available on tinterweb and in various books.

@ ransos - Que? I was merely confirming freemasonry to not be a rascist organisation, your slant on the comment is cunning, but we all know what the original poster was refering too, do we [i]really need to go down that path?

there are actually NO SECRETS

OK then, tell us what [b]you[/b] do and say at your scouts for grown ups?

@ ransos - Que? I was merely confirming freemasonry to not be a rascist organisation, your slant on the comment is cunning, but we all know what the original poster was refering too, do we [i]really need to go down that path?

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

Next!

I was asked to join once, but the invite was mysteriously withdrawn when they found out I was Catholic.

As I said earlier I don't really have any real problem with the concept of the Masons in that it's probably just a closed drinking shop, but the Masons are infected by the sinister goings on of the OO imo..

OK then, tell us what you do and say at your scouts for grown ups?

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

BTW - The negativity on here smacks of ''I dont understand it so I dont like it''

i think there is a bit of overlap in the membership between the Masons and the Orange Order.

There was some footage from Donal MacIntyre, though with a name like that it is unlikely to be unbiased

You used the existence of black and Asian freemasons as proof that the freemasons are not racist or sexist. That presumes that black and Asian people cannot be sexist or racist. Your presumption is incorrect.

And I didnt use it as proof as there being no rascists in freemasonry, on the contrary, I made the poitn that there are quite a few old schoolers with Alf Garnet beliefs - there are a lot of old people after all!. My point was that these people exist in all walks of life and Masonry isnt exclusive to them. Any pub on a friday night is usually as bad.
My other point was that there any many non-rascists in masonry, as in ALL OTHER walks of life.
Read what you want to read though.

BTW - The negativity on here smacks of ''I dont understand it so I dont like it''

the whole point is that we can't 'understand it' as it's a secret group - the info online hasn't been released by the Masons, almost like they're prefer us not to know

personally i never said i didn't like the masons, though they seem to attract people who i would have little in common with

BTW - The negativity on here smacks of ''I dont understand it so I dont like it''

Not really, there's not a lot to understand is there. Pretty much like any other Christian group aren't they?

BTW - The negativity on here smacks of ''I dont understand it so I dont like it''

That is why we appear to not "understand" ;you are secretive

Oooh yes, tell us the signs for recognising masons

errr...

1) No women (outside their own little enclave)
2) Lots and Lots of problems in the past
3) P2 in Italy. Google it.
4) In my area (medicine) there was a masonic definite power base and circle of influence in a hospital where I trained.
5) The defensive tone of some of the members of the craft who have crawled out on this thread has to be seen to be believed.
6) And the people who are members might be just as generous to charity if they were members of another organisation. The Masons don't get to claim all the credit for that.

Nothing really against them - it just seems a bit... infantile and pathetic. A bunch of blokes who feel the need to be take themselves too seriously.

slimjim78 - I went to one meeting only, all those present were white middle class men, and the telling of racist and sexist jokes seemed to be the rule rather than the exception. I found it offensive, I'm sure there are meetings where this does no happen, I was not generalising to the whole organisation.

There is much more to sexismsm than 'Women members'

and much more to racism than 'Black & Asian members'

the fact that people think that this is all there is to it worries me!

[url= http://doorknockersdirect.co.uk/products/brass-door-knockers/masonic-brass-door-knocker/ ]The masons will always have their knockers[/url]

The Masons don't get to claim all the credit for that.

No, but the masonic charities get to claim half the contributions

you cannot be a secret organisation then complain that we dont understand you ... her ei know open up like actually tell me what the rituals are or the handshake rather than say Googlle it. Even on here, when defending it behind a nom de plume, you cannot actually tell us can you.

Pretty much like any other Christian group aren't they?

1) No women (outside their own little enclave)
2) Lots and Lots of problems in the past
3) P2 in Italy. Google it.
4) In my area (medicine) there was a masonic definite power base and circle of influence in a hospital where I trained.
5) The defensive tone of some of the members of the craft who have crawled out on this thread has to be seen to be believed.
6) And the people who are members might be just as generous to charity if they were members of another organisation. The Masons don't get to claim all the credit for that.

1)Ever been to a pub with a men only room? Its old fashioned and its a bit wrong, but somehow it feels good. Masonry certainly cant be considered 'modern', I agree. They are making steps though.
2) lot & lots of problems? cant be bothered to ask for specifics to this vague point, but every orgnanisation has its dark problems - as does every race/government etc.
3) Italy? totally different organisation. Freemasonry is world wide but only connected by name in most cases. What is practiced/governed in one country is totally & utterly different in another. Its like saying a naughty italian school boy must be involved in the mafia.
4) So? influences and advantages are taken in all walks of life and in every situation, if you can use your club/mate/interests as an advantage then youd be a fool not too. Even if what you say [i]is [/i]true.
5)again - tarring with the same brush. There are knob 'eds in every organisation, you must have encountered some 'ethusiastic' members.
6) they would be just as generous, or at least inclined to be. But masonry binds them, gives them a common interest and probably raises the prospective outcome.

Supertramp - which province was that per chance?

Ive seen all kinds of 'classes' in my lodge and others ive visited, shame yours was sullied.
Ive heard tongue in cheek jokes, and ive never witnessed racism.

Have heard plenty of wife whingingness though.