Free school meals /...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

Free school meals / school league tables

22 Posts
17 Users
0 Reactions
58 Views
Posts: 12993
Free Member
Topic starter
 

So I heard something this evening down the pub and had to go along with it as I have no point of reference (eu citizen/domicile, no kids).... It sounded like a Daily Mail headline, but here goes....

The results of kids who receive free school meals do not go toward the school's league table results.

I wanted to argue that it's tosh, but didn't as I'm nowhere near being in the loop on such things.

Had a Google, but found nothing.

Yay or nay?


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:22 pm
Posts: 7857
Full Member
 

Whoever told you that was either ignorant or bullshitting. Free School Meals / Pupil Premium kids are counted in every school's results. They even get their own subcategory to judge how well (results-wise at least) school's support their most deprived students.

For context, the school I teach in has 45% Pupil Premium students (this is high) so I understand how the system treats them pretty well.

From a UK viewpoint at least - not sure about Germany?


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:25 pm
Posts: 12993
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Cheers...

What are Pupil Premium kids?

I'm talking about the UK. Kids in Germany don't get school meals... They don't even have a canteen in the schools because school finishes at 13:00.

I'm hoping ignorance rather than bigoted, but the longer I spend on this sacred isle the harder I'm finding it to assume such....

What trajectory is this nation currently on? Empathy, like apathy is at zero, it seems.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:34 pm
Posts: 15315
Full Member
 

What trajectory is this nation currently on? Empathy, like apathy is at zero, it seems.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/calls-mount-free-school-meal-28136199


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:39 pm
Posts: 6235
Full Member
 

Pupil premium can mean a variety of things.
But broadly is either free school meals (family income is under a certain threshold), child in care, or a child that has been in care (fostered or adopted).
Forces children might also count (not sure?)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pupil-premium/pupil-premium#:~:text=using%20pupil%20premium.-,Purpose,as%20well%20as%20other%20pupils.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:39 pm
Posts: 12993
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Have you a link to a reputable source?
Edit... re the Premium Pupils being included in results.

Feel I need to debunk this next time I see them with some proof.

It's crap like this that gets spouted and taken at face value that devides people.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:39 pm
Posts: 6235
Full Member
 

Have you a link to a reputable source?

Feel I need to debunk this next time I see them with some proof.

I am a teacher and can 100% guarantee that PP/disadvantaged pupil's results count towards school's overall results.
If you hear it then shout bullcrap, as that's what it is.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:42 pm
Posts: 3002
Full Member
 

It's bollocks.

Have you a link to a reputable source?

I'm sat next to a Teacher.

Pupil Premium is related to a bunch of things, household income, social care etc and linked to free school meals too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pupil-premium/pupil-premium#:~:text=using%20pupil%20premium.-,Purpose,as%20well%20as%20other%20pupils.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:44 pm
Posts: 6874
Full Member
 

In other league table news, private schools go big or go home (no worries counting free school meals here…)

One internal message from a senior leader advised staff to “work to ensure the students have a good day, in the way we frame the assessments”, adding: “That way, every student has the potential to get the grade they could get, rather than the ones they would get.”

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/dec/24/north-london-collegiate-school-investigated-a-level-grades-2021-malpractice-allegations


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 9:53 pm
Posts: 3131
Free Member
 

It depends on the league table.

A popular (Scottish) one published in newspapers ranks schools based on the proportion of pupils who achieve five or more National 5 passes and five or more Highers. They also look at the proportion gaining two or more Advanced Highers.

This takes no account of free school dinners etc.

There is also - as above - one based on Free School Meals / Pupil Premium kids, but that's not good click-bait.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 10:13 pm
Posts: 13356
Free Member
 

Yeah, since Brexit.......
I blame it for everything.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 10:34 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Hmm, I am not a teacher but realtives are and they report that some of the best teaching they have ever been involved in was at schools with very high level of free school meals, ie deprived areas.
Not that it has any bearing on this but I have a lot of admiration for teachers and people that generally serve whilst on a crappy state wage. Shit job, shit money and everyone thinks they can do better.


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 10:44 pm
Posts: 9763
Full Member
 

goes….

The results of kids who receive free school meals do not go toward the school’s league table results.

It’s quite easy to download this stuff. Maybe it’s a bit harder to understand. But the default is all students are included.

https://www.find-school-performance-data.service.gov.uk/download-data

Some one, some where may have made a league table without free school means kids. But that’s not what the government does.

Students from groups such as those that get pupil premium or free school meals are one of educations massive catch 22s.

Schools with these students generally get less good results. The teachers often need to work harder with greater challenges. But the schools are often branded by league tables or ofsted as less good. So why would anyone want to teach in these schools? More stress, less respect for the same money

So should we expect less good results from these schools and students. Praise teachers for below the national average results. Well that doesn’t work either. We can’t create a structure that expects these students to fail. Builds in lower expectations. That’s terrible for the countries and families.

FYI I teach in a sixth form college. I have taught in schools. But eventually schools turned out not to be good for me


 
Posted : 24/12/2022 11:49 pm
Posts: 5012
Free Member
 

Don’t bother arguing with the prick.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 9:57 am
Posts: 22922
Full Member
 

Had a Google, but found nothing.

You're trying to prove the absence of something - how to cite 'nothing' as proof? Its up to your pal to cite his sources - he's the one making the claim.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 10:07 am
Posts: 24498
Free Member
 

Its up to your pal to cite his sources – he’s the one making the claim.

Correct. And a facebook post is not a reliable source.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 10:58 am
Posts: 12993
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Its up to your pal to cite his sources

Calling him my pal is pushing it somewhat.... Just one of the locals at the pub I visit whenever I'm over in the UK.

It sounded like BS and I'm glad to know it is. Cheers.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 11:04 am
Posts: 2344
Free Member
 

Soon a non issue in primary schools anyway as the government are gradually rolling out universal free school meals for all primary school kids over next 2 years

https://www.gov.wales/universal-primary-free-school-meals-upfsm


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 11:06 am
Posts: 15315
Full Member
 

That link is for Wales.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 11:47 am
Posts: 2344
Free Member
 

Yes...Wales, that's where I live.

Oh no...Wait a minute am I guilty of assuming that what happens in my part of these 4 nations also applies to the people who live in the other 3?


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 12:51 pm
Posts: 7618
Free Member
 

In this nation. The headlines are pretty raw data. 5of5 that's 5 passes of 5 sat be that N5 or H can go down to 3of3.
It's ridiculous and forces schools down silly pathways. SIMD data is not taken into account for that although there are returns schools have to make which is SIMD dependent which will affect how much additional funding can be accessed to "close the attainment gap". In fact we about to be inspected on what we do for SIMD 1&2 pupils, which could massively affect our funding.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 1:11 pm
Posts: 18073
Free Member
 

The German gymnasium I used to organise an exchange with has a canteen and some of the kids got free school meals. There's been some debate recently about whether all German kids should get free school meals. The meals were pretty good, I had a few.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 8:26 pm
Posts: 77347
Free Member
 

Feel I need to debunk this next time I see them with some proof.

Burdon of proof. He's making the statement, he needs to back it up otherwise the only rebuttal you need is "no it isn't." Ask for detail, "is that just England or the whole of the UK? Primary or secondary school? What about universities?" Etc etc.

You could tell him you heard that the results of kids who have ginger hair do not go toward the school’s league table results. It's an equally valid claim.


 
Posted : 25/12/2022 10:36 pm

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!