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There is no I in Team Stoner, bit there is in Meat Pie 🙂 Mmm Pie
Soon they will join us, come on Cougar and Drac
edit why can't I post Gifs in as just the like like pics, want to use an Aussie term of endearment here
Two points:
1)
In non-mod posts
We don’t know which are your mod posts and which are not, so we’ll always likely treat your posts as mod posts. I.e. speaking as STW’s representative, and that you have your hand fairly close to a big button. If you don’t want to be treated like a mod or STW’s representative, then you know what to do.
2) it was a ducking ad. Stop insulting our intelligence, and your own. In many ways the cross-promotion is too, and yes, the BBC have been criticised for this in the past too.
maybe we need a MOD signal
Top work there tiger It would be a shame if it spawned a proliferation...
We lost Derek_Starship tonight!
Reports are saying 50% crap forum software, 50% crap posts.
He’d been here forever! If it wasn’t for that man many more unplugged handlebars will have killed baby robins faces. Fact
#wakeupcall
#unpluggedbarsaeebadmmmkay
Oh and I realised what the whole thing about the specialized pic that was not an ad that Spec paid to have plastered across the forum that wasn't an ad
Hahaha like it Tiger.
Good morning Zokes it matters not Mods can make jokes
The Spesh ad was annoying though, it confused me and I thought I was using one of my non P logins.
Nearly posted using completely the wrong persona 👩
We don’t know which are your mod posts and which are not, so we’ll always likely treat your posts as mod posts. I.e. speaking as STW’s representative, and that you have your hand fairly close to a big button.
The first part of that is a fair comment. If in doubt, assume "user." I used to use <mod> tags but kind of got out of the habit. I'll try and fix that, fair shout.
The second comment less so. That would be an abuse of power and despite allegations from some quarters I'd never do that. I've never moderated posts (and certainly never issued bans) for anything anyone's said against me. I choose to put myself in the firing line, hiding behind a moderator tag in an argument is a ****'s trick.
When moderation has happened in that sort of situation it's usually because Mark's intervened to protect us from abuse, he has a zero tolerance policy there. (And from memory, the only time that's actually happened is when it's escalated from the forum into a torrent of abuse via email.) The notion that you can't speak your minds because Moderator is a fiction.
it was a ducking ad. Stop insulting our intelligence, and your own.
As a non-P user and self-confessed ad-block user I'm confused as to how you even saw it.
Mods can make jokes
They might try, on occasion 😉
And thanks for writing back cougar. That’s a good explanation of where you stand on the mod/user interface. I suppose there will always be a bit of a perceived power imbalance in a discussion, even if in actuality that’s not the case.
No, I’m not a P user. I’ve explained at length why. STW doesn’t want my custom, so I’m unlikely to throw money at them in those circumstances. Not being a P user means that I’m supposed to see ads, right? That would explain why the page looked like a Specialized infomercial for me yesterday for a bit. However, as STW doesn’t pay for my bandwidth, I’ll be the arbiter of what I do and don’t download, thank you.
As a P subscriber and an Ad block user I still got the full-page Specialized ad. It had been coded in such a way as to bypass adblock.
Contempt.
They might try, on occasion 😉
Oh oh yes whether they’re are funny or not is a different matter.
It was background image no tricky coding required. I’m not sure if it was intended Ad or not but other than it was awful I failed to see the issue.
There are 87 pages to sift through and I need to go to bed, so I'll just ask instead:
Is there an issue with the forum front page not updating? I'm seeing the same stuff for hours on end, and then when I go to page 2 the majority is filled with stuff I can see on page 1. There are no changes in post order, no post count increases, no change in "freshness". It's doing it on Windows PC with Chrome, Firefox and Edge, Android phone with Firefox and Chrome and iPhone Safari. The fact that it's multiple devices, OS and browsers makes me think it's not an issue at my end but I know little about this sort of thing.
I haven’t checked all 86 pages, but (and with the greatest respect), having read the most recent three or so pages just now, I don’t see what benefit having either of the mods replying to this thread is having – either for them, or for the users and subscribers raising legitimate points (multiple times). The mods don’t speak for the company (STW), and aren’t privy to information or have decision-making powers, but in replying to posts on this thread it gives the impression that they do. Probably clearer all-round if the mods moderate the site (removing/editing posts that don’t adhere to the site rules), and users/subscribers keep raising the valid points on this thread (or via email to STW staff), and see whether they get a response from an employee – if they do or dont, either way would speak volumes.
It is the greatest of shames that the mods let themselves be continually mugged off by the people that make a living from their work.
They are being taken advantage of.
We really aren’t Sbob we are not being mugged of in the slightest and it’s pretty insulting to me that you think that. If I was being taken advantage of I’d told Mark to shove the modding and he knows that I’ve known him for about 16 years now.
If we didn’t give the info that we can give then the torrent of moaning and probably abuse on this thread would be worse asking why the mods aren’t even answering. Your constant little digs at us is however becoming quite tedious.
I’m not sure if it was intended Ad or not
Of course - it was just chance that a giant background image with a Specialised logo appeared at the same time as a flood of ads for a new Spec bike, pure coincidence, oh yes.
Of course – it was just chance that a giant background image with a Specialised logo appeared at the same time as a flood of ads for a new Spec bike, pure coincidence, oh yes.
My theory here:
Singletrack ad sales team (is there anyone?) sold a site takeover to specialized as part of a campaign for the stumpjumper launch.
With the site changes, the publisher found they didn't have the ad unit available to host the skin element of the takeover and so meet the contractual agreement with the advertiser. A workaround of using a "background image" was used, hence the image still appearing to P and adblocker users.
If my theory is correct, all that needs to happen is for the publisher to come on and say "sorry if you didn't like the image background the other day, here's the technical reasons, we need the ad revenue, it's finished now and we're looking at solutions to allow us to do a better job next time we sell a takeover. Thanks for your patience and I'm sure you can appreciate how important it is to us to strike a balance between keeping users happy and generate the money we need to pay staff wages and keep the lights on."
Only a ****ing wierdo would take exception to a post like that.
Communication as always is the key.
It's as slow as a box mangle today - on phone and work. Was that the cost of the Spesh. ad?
If we didn’t give the info that we can give then the torrent of moaning and probably abuse on this thread would be worse asking why the mods aren’t even answering. Your constant little digs at us is however becoming quite tedious.
Do you know what would solve that? Mark et al. actually communicating with us in a calm and pleasant manner. Y'know, just the most effing obvious solution.
Does anybody actually really care about the Spesh advert?
Sure I subscribe but I can’t say it bothered me and I wasn’t frothing at the mouth that my contractual right to no ads had been violated.
The problem I think is much deeper, unfortunately the populous of this forum is cyclists and having observed cyclists as close quarters they can be a right bunch of oddball sanctimonious augmentative wazzocks.
I just want a forum where the content refreshes quickly, you can see your replies easily, doesnt post erroneous tags and loads in a reasonable time.
Not fussed about emojis, sliders or edit logs 👀👍
Wazzock is a much underused term.
Obviously they do. It was a backdrop instead of the really really feint stw logos. My understanding was a P meant reduced or very few ads, not a contractual maximum of 0 ads, and that 1 piece of promotional material was a violation.
Anyway, on android, it was approximately 3 pixels on either side of the screen.
a right bunch of oddball sanctimonious augmentative wazzocks
I'm stealing that one for use in several forums (but with the word "argumentative" 😉 )
Not even gonna edit as it helps make the point
👍😀😀👍😀😀😀😃👏👏😆👏
That was entirely accidental but I half thought about popping a less/fewer they/they’re and a sat/sitting in their to see’s what would happen.
bunch of oddball sanctimonious augmentative wazzocks.
This obviously should be taken into account when messing with "our" forum 😀
And you should realise, at your age, that just because you don't object to something, it doesn't mean other people won't, or shouldn't.
On a totally different point I've noticed the article titles on the home page seem to be considerably less clickbaity.
More question marks and not many exclaimations.
I’m 🦆ing off out on my bike!
Was gonna take my STW approved rigid 29er with stupid shaped handlebars and natty framebag but not today.....🚲
Today I ride a Speshilized / Specialised / Special👀 ....🚵♂️
in the 🌞
Ill post a suitably pointless picture in Singletrack ‘Select’ Facebook group...
I too am venturing out for the day. However I am out on my rigid 29er... its only the Ridgeway afterall. 😎
www.flickr.com/photos/146501625@N06/31888714800/in/album-72157675288722774/
Cheers for the update Cougar, glad your chat with Mark was so fruitful 😉
Give it a rest, Mike.
Git.
I forgot all about it to be honest, and I've been kinda busy today. I'll try and get to it tomorrow.
Your constant little digs at us is however becoming quite tedious.
Not a dig at you, quite the opposite.
That's the point.
xxx
sbob.
[i]Cougar wrote:[/i]
The lack of official communication is frustrating for sure. But playing devil’s advocate, I can see why Mark may be reluctant to do so given the kicking I / Drac have been getting at times for trying to field questions. And ultimately it’s not really my monkey. I said this a while back, but I suspect we’d see more interaction if the Big Hitter audience wasn’t such a bear pit.
“We want information!”
“Here’s some information.”
*four pages of outrage about why it’s all shit and I know better because my 12-year old nephew runs his own Pokemon Go website for six friends so how hard can it be?*
If I were Mark I’d have existed on a diet of Red Bull, Marlboro Lights and three hours’ sleep a night for the last six months.
I've responded to this one several times - I even pre-empted it recently when we were last commenting on lack of feedback.
I suspect we might see less outrage if when Mark raised his head he did so in the capacity of actually addressing our concerns, rather than telling us about how it was all going as planned and telling us about all the new wonderful features they're implementing (which nobody asked for) whilst not commenting on what was being done about the things which are broken which we are all interested in. If he bothered to pay any attention to the feedback he'd note that the pages of outrage were largely related to that rather than just general outrage at him, if he actually provided the information we're asking for - or even just dared to apologise and admit things have gone a bit wrong - then the reaction would be somewhat different. It still makes me think of this: https://www.quotes.net/mquote/915230
Your Pokemon Go jibe is somewhat strawmanny - as you're well aware there are plenty of us on here who do software dev and particularly web dev for a living - I'm sure I'm far from the most knowledgeable, but currently working on web stuff with database back end, with rather more than 6 customers. Mark might be able to bluff most people on here, but some of us do understand how these systems work.
If Mark issued the JFDI instruction then my sympathy is somewhat limited (though FFS can't he just come on here and admit it in that case!)
Just the one thing! Just the "last poster" and we could live in harmony and joy.
I mean, the facebook mess came and went, the background ad came and went, the font er, improved... even EVEN the new article headlines have gone back to being for adults! But the last poster on a thread thing... pleeeease... 🙁
On the logging out issue:
[i]Cougar wrote:[/i]
why?
Search me, ask the people who wrote WordPress.
The question isn't why WP has a default logout time of 2 weeks if you enable auto-logout, but why STW has to enable auto-logout at all. Sure if your site does banking or other financial stuff then it makes sense to auto-logout - but this place didn't even feel the need to encrypt the traffic until very recently, which made any security gained by logging people out utterly pointless. As pointed out when the lack of https was raised earlier in this thread, there's nothing terribly sensitive here and allowing people to just stay logged in on a device really isn't an issue. Loads of other forums and sites which just keep you logged in.
The overly frequent logouts aren't an issue for me, but it's a problem which would very easily be solved by simply turning off that behaviour completely. Which would have the bonus of improving the user experience a bit for everybody who does just get logged out every 2 weeks which is slightly irritating.
Results are in - well actually results are a tiny but fudged because the post count for me at least is constantly showing as the wrong number (a cache thing?)
Anyway to within a few minutes of an exact 1 week sample comparing number of posts in the last week with April 2017. This week we have posted 512 times a day on average. This time last year we were posting 748 times a day in the bike forum. So that is a drop of 32% in posts from last year in what should be the premium section of an MTB forum.
Not actually as bad as I thought it was going to be. But 'as busy as ever'....please.
you’re well aware there are plenty of us on here who do software dev and particularly web dev for a living
Of course. I wasn't really referring to professional developers though. There's been some very sensible suggestions and comments made from folk who do this for a living. But there has also been plenty of comments on this thread from those who aren't in that position, have no concept of the challenges faced by STW, and yet still think they know best.
telling us about all the new wonderful features they’re implementing (which nobody asked for)
Case in point here. Should STW be implementing things "people ask for" or prioritising what's most important from a commercial point of view? Ideally the answer is "both" and there will of course be crossover, but the latter has to take priority surely?
Should STW be implementing things “people ask for” or prioritising what’s most important from a commercial point of view? Ideally the answer is “both” and there will of course be crossover, but the latter has to take priority surely?
It's easier top make money when you have happy customers. If you post count is down 32ish% that tells you there are less people here to make money from and you need to fix that - it's a key part of commercial success.
The question isn’t why WP has a default logout time of 2 weeks if you enable auto-logout, but why STW has to enable auto-logout at all.
I suspect the answer is simply "inertia" - that's how it came out of the box and it's never been changed. I got the impression that with the old forum they were reluctant to make any changes because as I've said before it was a rat's nest of code. (I think also that the dev I spoke to hadn't been with STW all that long at the time and had inherited a clustermess.) Hopefully neither of these things should be the case going forward.
All "people are asking for" is the simple functionality we had before!
(And don't tell me it ain't simple - every single bleedin forum on the web has it!)
Interesing Convert but really what is needed is week on week data not a random week out of a year, maybe that week last year been a particularly busy week and this last week a quieter one?
Interesing Convert but really what is needed is week on week data not a random week out of a year,
I guess if STW want to quote those figures when telling us it's busier than ever we won't need as much salt 😉
Interesing Convert but really what is needed is week on week data not a random week out of a year, maybe that week last year been a particularly busy week and this last week a quieter one?
Actually that was a daily average of 28th March to 28th April, compared to the daily average of the last week. Agreed, not perfect but a start.
28th April - 21st May 2017 (I can only choose dates of pages recorded in the wayback machine archive) averaged 750 posts a day exactly last year. I'm going to measure the same full period this year too.
We need a spreadsheet, definitely need moar spreadsheets on this forum.
And pie charts, can we have pie charts too 👍🤡🤙🤙
Bear in mind, the number of posts isn't necessarily reflective of the number of visitors. Posting may be down on last year, but to conclude therefore that Mark must be lying is unfair at best.
The busyness of the site and whether it has changed has the two sides stating the opposite but they are using different stats: On the one side STW/Mark are using page impressions which is what server stats will tell you while on the other users are using the number of posts which is what users *see*.
Bear in mind, the number of posts isn’t necessarily reflective of the number of visitors. Posting may be down on last year, but to conclude therefore that Mark must be lying is unfair at best.
Irrespective, visitors to the forum element of the site are coming here to read content if not to actively participate. There is currently 30 odd percentage less new content to read than there used to be (if you don't count ads as content 😉 ). Also the historical content is essentially not accessible at the moment if that is what they are here to find. If Mark's livelihood is in any part dependent on impressions on the forum and does not see the reduction of posts as an issue he is misguided.
If he can’t see a connection between the user experience of the new forum and the reduced post count he is also misguided.
Don't forget that 3 argumentative people seem to have left us.
For every 1 of their posts there were 5 people shooting them down.
Not good for STW viewing figures but better for my ticker.
Don’t forget that 3 argumentative people seem to have left us.
For every 1 of their posts there were 5 people shooting them down.
Not good for STW viewing figures but better for my ticker.
I deliberately focussed on the bike forum partly for that reason. No normal person comes to a forum to read an argument between a couple of wazzoks.
to conclude therefore that Mark must be lying is unfair at best.
I don't think he was lying when he said that STW had just had it's busiest day ever. That day was when Beast of the East hit the South East though. I'd suggest that there might be a connection.
Pleased at ‘Wazzock’ adoption 👍😀
Case in point here. Should STW be implementing things “people ask for” or prioritising what’s most important from a commercial point of view? Ideally the answer is “both” and there will of course be crossover, but the latter has to take priority surely?
Never as simple as that 👍😀
Seriously though, would team STW consider an offer of help if some of us here do this stuff all day or is it a case of ‘all in hand and we’re good’
I rode my bike for several hours in the sun today.
Puts this into perspective.
Yes the forum can now be annoying, but THIS annoying?
Do you even shred bro?
Any news?
On the one side STW/Mark are using page impressions
They're using Google Analytics. It provides a startlingly detailed breakdown of site usage.
If he can’t see a connection between the user experience of the new forum and the reduced post count he is also misguided.
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, your speculation is as good as mine. I'm sure he knows what he's doing as he's been doing it for a while. And if not, well, ultimately it's his ball.
would team STW consider an offer of help if some of us here do this stuff all day or is it a case of ‘all in hand and we’re good’
I expect what you'll get is an invite to go and visit (and in fact there's an open invite to do just that). That's what happened when I offered. Before then there was nothing I would've liked better than to get my hands on the codebase; after I visited I came away very glad they hadn't let me. Though, that was the old forum.
No normal person comes to a forum to read an argument between a couple of wazzoks.
Oh....... it brightens up my dull day sometimes
Oh……. it brightens up my dull day sometimes
Absolutely this, it's hilarious how angry people get about an internet forum! 😆
Pleased at ‘Wazzock’ adoption 👍😀
Actually, it’s becoming a bit stale. Try nincumpoop instead.
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Cougar
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<div>Subscriber</div>
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">
On the one side STW/Mark are using page impressions
They’re using Google Analytics. It provides a startlingly detailed breakdown of site usage.
So quote in quote doesn't work or does it???
Anyway I'm the data guy, it's what I do send me the numbers and I'll make it say what you want...
If it's that busy and the post count is off whats the page hits from this week/month daily and weekly nums from last year vs this year?
Whats the post count vs page load ratio for the last 2 years and what is the trend? Does page hits match or deviate from post count, what factors impact this, weather, events etc, could there be a base layer of interenet scraping that is impacting figures?
I'll come round and do some number analysis for free, I'll do some UX stuff too and I do a good line in cold hard facts
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I do a good line in cold hard facts
if the forum worked, I’d post the Jack Nicholson gif in here
Point of order: nobody claimed the site had seen its busiest day ever, the claim was busiest day since January or some sorts.
Thursday was the busiest day on the site since Bez’s Column in early January.
I’ll come round and do some number analysis for free
Again, Mark has offered an open invite.
if the forum worked, I’d post the Jack Nicholson gif in here
I cancelled my subscription a few days ago.
Just had a look at the forum and I only have the first page, no way of going to the next. Also no way of starting a thread.
Have I been banned?
No adverts and I can still log in.
Have reset phone etc and other sites are ok.
Surely I should see the whole forum even if I’m not a subscriber anymore?
If you were banned you’d not be able to log in.
To start a thread you scroll down on the forum index page it should be at the bottom.
You’ve got no ads as you’re stil a subscriber.
They’re using Google Analytics.
It's a tool designed by an advertising behemoth to help them sell more advertising space/clicks. The tool will by design give the best results for the company selling space/clicks.
Meanwhile when is the RSS forum feed facility going to be re-introduced? Losing patience with this function and the last poster not being fixed over 2 months in.
Thanks Drac
I know where to start a thread, it wasn’t there.
Searching gave me responses from 4 years ago.
This is the only forum I’m on and I’ve not really had the issues that others have stated.
Yet the last week on multiple devices has been a nightmare. To the point that I cancelled my subscription.
I’ll just buy it in the shop when I see it.
The P subscription thing makes no difference now which is a real shame as I like to support things like this.
Were you logged in?
Search is still broken yes.
P gives you the mag, zero ads (waits for it) and exclusive articles.
Minor niggle, not sure if it’s been mentioned before. At the bottom of the page is the message to log in to add a reply. Would be helpful if that text was also a link taking the browser to the log-in page.
Steady. That would reduce the number of clicks.
Well, I make it about 3pm in the UK, and there are still two threads on the first page that are 19 hours old. That really has to be a new record.
It is currently a mini-heat wave, tho. So everyone is outside.
The forum is a bag of spanners, but the weather is probably a big part of today's post paucity.
It is currently a mini-heat wave, tho. So everyone is outside.
Fair enough. I spent the day in the garden here as it was nice, so makes sense. Apologies if I don't see 20C as a heatwave though 😉
It's much better than it was. still some annoying issues, especially the mad quoting.
I’m finding the increased percentage of borish posters left ‘contributing’ more of a turn-off than the post count itself.
But then I am a grumpy git.