[Closed] Forum Update

Has anyone emailed Chipps and Mark and let them know?

I did a few weeks back, got a reply from Chipps but nothing from Mark. Chipps'  reply sounded hopeful, but not now...

Oh come on now, seriously?

I agree with a lot of your gripes, but how is a logo in a corner in any way, shape or form an advert?  Can you click through it to Specialized's website?  Is it inline on the page or otherwise taking up space on the forum?  Is it in the way?

Do you expect to have brand logos airbrushed out when reading product reviews now?  This must be the only bike forum in existence where readers lose their shit when seeing a bike logo on a web page background.  Presumably it's simply there because Spesh hold the rights to the photo?

I doubt there's any commercial website in existence which offers body text and nothing else, even to paid subscribers.  I doubt also that there's any other commercial website in existence which would allow this conversation to happen.  I do take your points but it feels like it's any excuse to complain from some quarters at this point.  User experience aside it's sucking the ****ing life out of me reading all this.

From the closed thread…
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/p-user-seeing-adverts/
<div class="bbcode-quote">

It’s a logo. Good grief.

</div>
…it’s not just a logo – it’s a bloody great image that makes it obvious your are browsing the ‘tinternet. For a lot of us the idea of going ad-free is to get a clean look that doesn’t stick out.

And it’s and <strong class="bbcode-strong">advert which we have paid to be removed! So what if it’s just a logo. Is that hard to understand why people are a little cross!?

Agreed!

@Cougar. It's not so much the logo (which is advertising BTW) but the fact that when you open a thread or move to a new page the background image appears in all its glory, it is a good shot TBF, before being partially hidden by the container holding the content, i.e. the posts along with the RH sidebar. So for those <ahem> at work</ahem> there's this bloody great flashing screen rather than something understated that at least looks vaguely work related.

For a lot of us the idea of going ad-free is to get a clean look that doesn’t stick out.

I can resize my browser windows so that there's about 2mm of background visible, if that's a concern.

I doubt there’s any commercial website in existence which offers body text and nothing else, even to paid subscribers

Really?, here's one i use, i could name another 4 if you like?.

Caddy2K forum

I doubt there’s any commercial website in existence which offers body text and nothing else, even to paid subscribers.

But you DID used to offer a clean ad-free experience - you now don't, so I won't be renewing my sub. I signed up to a different service than the one now on offer.

And sorry you are stuck in the middle of this.

I agree with a lot of your gripes, but how is a logo in a corner in any way, shape or form an advert?  Can you click through it to Specialized’s website?  Is it inline on the page or otherwise taking up space on the forum?  Is it in the way?

Did Specialized pay for STW to remove the plain simple background and put this pic up there promoting their brand?

That is the definition for me, I assume STW didn't just find an image and put it up.

It changes the entire look of the site from a slightly bland, work acceptable view to one that screams bike site.

But in reality at this point

Crap Search

No proper post history

Still getting typos

Page Numbering still doesn't work as will be proved when I hit submit there and it goes back a page

Tags in the text

Slowest Edit in the world

But then deliver a stupid pop up to tell us the mag is out and put an advertising background over the non advert site.

User experience aside it’s sucking the **** life out of me reading all this.

The feeling really is who cares what we post here, none of the devs seem to be picking this up, why should you waste your time in here.

And from PR 101 if your customer base is pissed off, people are cancelling subs and people are angry don't poke them with a stick

So for those <ahem> at work</ahem> there’s this bloody great flashing screen rather than something understated that at least looks vaguely work related.

Alt-tab away while it's loading?  That's what I do.

The background doesn't affect me as I can't see it on my mobile, but anything that shows a bike logo that wasn't there before is an advert...

Given the plethora of excellent photographers STW has access to, it is highly unlikely that the image was randomly selected as it was the right one.

Potentially a fix for less ads is to know show a sponsored background (so an advert), so you should be able to see some people's annoyance at getting ads when they have specified none.

The complete silence isn't helping...Mark should take the 10 minutes to put updates up and a lot of the critics will be silenced, this should be a standard piece. He'll get flamed the first couple of times then it will steady and people will return to happier behaviour...

It isn't difficult.

Is someone being paid to display the S image? That defines (to me) whether it's an advert or not.

Cougar, love you to bits, but Im afraid you are going to find yourself on the wrong side of history here.

*sorry, CFH 😉

>User experience aside it’s sucking the **** life out of me reading all this.

Then don't read it!

here’s one i use

And that's a commercial website is it?  What do they sell?  How many staff do they employ?

Did Specialized pay for STW to remove the plain simple background and put this pic up there promoting their brand?

I have absolutely no idea, your guess is as good as mine.  Even if it did, does it really matter?  It's a tiny logo on a background image that I can't even see unless I start resizing the browser to specifically look for it.

Hypothetically, if the title page changed to read "Singletrack, sponsored by Specialized," would everyone complain about adverts then?

I doubt there’s any commercial website in existence which offers body text and nothing else, even to paid subscribers.

You're wrong. Straight off the bat is Cricket Australia's live scores website, which at the click of a button transforms from a flashy ad-ridden website to rival this one to a simple imitation Google Sheets page. Something tells me CA are a bit of a bigger commercial player that ST.

Alt-tab away while it’s loading?  That’s what I do.

Or maybe listen to user feedback, and don't do stuff that pisses people off. Oh, and maybe actually fix stuff that's broken first. Perhaps if this was done, all the life-sucking you're whinging about might not be that prevalent. In situations where users are happy, complaints departments are usually quite quiet places.

Then don’t read it!

It's getting to that point TBH.

As I said, I understand the complaints, I do.  The bugs are frustrating, and I totally get why people are complaining about things like their forum history page / favourites / search engine etc.  Personally I hate the TinyMCE editor to the core of my being.  But when I read three pages of toys in low Earth orbit over the presence of a bike logo, on a background image, on a ****ing bike forum, I really do question why I bother trying.

I have absolutely no idea, your guess is as good as mine.  Even if it did, does it reallymatter?  It’s a tiny logo on a background image that I can’t even see unless I start resizing the browser to specifically look for it.

I pay for no ads, it's kind of in the deal I signed up for. If your missing the point I think that may be causing your reactions. Bit like paying for a bike and having the grips nicked off it after a few months

Hypothetically, if the title page changed to read “Singletrack, sponsored by Specialized,” would everyone complain about adverts then?

What discount do I get per ad from STW?

The complete silence isn’t helping…Mark should take the 10 minutes to put updates up and a lot of the critics will be silenced, this should be a standard piece. He’ll get flamed the first couple of times then it will steady and people will return to happier behaviour…

It isn’t difficult.

I think this is the biggest issue of all.

im all for STW developing and such. Im all for change. But you need good communication.

As I said weeks ago, STW don’t care about the users. Suck all the revenue they can out of you lot paying for P until the forum turns into a ghost town and gets shut down.

If they did care either a) something would be done about all the issues already or b) someone would communicate about what is happening/what they are struggling with. Neither is happening.

[i]Cougar wrote:[/i]

I have absolutely no idea, your guess is as good as mine.  Even if it did, does it really matter?  It’s a tiny logo on a background image that I can’t even see unless I start resizing the browser to specifically look for it.

Just for balance, I didn't know there was a logo until it was mentioned and I went searching, and then it only appears briefly when I scroll almost to the bottom just before the bottom bar scrolls in (Chrome on W10). So I don't really care much about that (and it doesn't make the slightest difference to whether I'd buy from a company which employs far too many lawyers for my liking, but then I'm not the target market). However I do care if devs are spending their time on this and other unwanted stuff. I appreciate that the site/forum has to be monetised, but then I also wonder whether the commercial impact of pissing off your customers/product (delete as appropriate) has been properly assessed when deciding to add "money making" stuff.

 But when I read three pages of toys in low Earth orbit over the presence of a bike logo, on a background image, on a ****ing bike forum, I really do question why I bother trying.

At least part of is the quite understandable frustration as to why the devs are ****ing about with shit like this and that floaty banner when there are several major issues that continue to greatly impede normal use of the forum for many users. That, and Mark's utter failure to engage in any useful manner whilst leaving you and Drac to act as his filter. Rightly or wrongly, put together all this comes across as really contemptuous of the user base. People who feel they're being treated with contempt are usually quite narky.

Edit: *pulls out*

From the "Our Forum" sticky thread:

Update: Monday 13th February

The forum will be worked on and alongside with other developments. The things that we are currently doing on the forum are:

1. Put a search back that will be useful and won’t slow the site

2. Improve the member history so you can find your posts and replies to your posts

3. Deal with the formatting issues.

We will be giving a brief update, hopefully at the end of each working day.

Thanks for your patience.

Care to hazard a guess as to when the last post on that thread was? I hope everyone's enjoyed their day off sat next to a black hole 😉

Premier users have paid for a no-ads experience , the background-image of the body tag just appears as a way of subverting that. It simply isn't necessary whilst there are so many other problems with the forums. Maybe it's a Trump like deflection tactic 🙂

zokes +1

Just because STW dont think their priorities are the same as our priorities is going to be little comfort for them in the coming months.

Stop dicking about with shite that has ZERO positive impact on users, and get the core failures dealt with. Once STW have a steady ship again, maybe then is the time to try sneaky bastard advertising.

Maybe it is all up for sale?

Get the forum up to an industry standard, continue with the current ad profile, assess before and after impressions and hits from unique users.. what was it 1.5m??

Gain more clean adverts using data driven exposure..

Sell up.

Buy bikes.

Get a job in another sector.

Join in on here berating users and the new owners..

🤡👍💋💋💋💋

So this is the website without being logged in or any adblocker on - fairly obvious the background is an advert...

[IMG] [/IMG]

I was going to comment a while back, but got logged out again, again.  FFS.

I agree with a lot of your gripes, but how is a logo in a corner in any way, shape or form an advert?

What's a swastika? A funny little cross with extra arms.  If it's not an advert, what exactly is it for?

[i]andybrad wrote:[/i]

The complete silence isn’t helping…Mark should take the 10 minutes to put updates up and a lot of the critics will be silenced, this should be a standard piece. He’ll get flamed the first couple of times then it will steady and people will return to happier behaviour…

It isn’t difficult.

I think this is the biggest issue of all.

im all for STW developing and such. Im all for change. But you need good communication.

+ another 1.

I've already written it plenty of times on here, but this is the biggest issue - along with the perceived attitude that fixing the problems are a secondary concern to adding shiny new stuff. Just to head off the usual comments about us lot just flaming Mark when he raises his head (and I've also written this before), he could actually address our concerns and be honest with us which might help. A couple of specific points - plenty of web devs on here, so don't try and bluff us, and don't be David Brent giving bad news and no news 

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/uplift-ticketing-trial-cancelled How to respond to criticism.

. Just to head off the usual comments about us lot just flaming Mark when he raises his head (and I’ve also written this before), he could actually address our concerns and be honest with us which might help.

The locked Our Forum thread is there for that.

1. Put a search back that will be useful and won’t slow the site
2. Improve the member history so you can find your posts and replies to your posts
3. Deal with the formatting issues.
We will be giving a brief update, hopefully at the end of each working day.

Even better than that! A pop up to tell people about a mag they already know exists!

An edit window you have to click on 17 times before you can paste anything!

And... A big pretty picture!

Looking at it at work, it appears about 95% of all advertising space has been taken over by the specialized advert - and it isn't even sharp, looks blurry.

**** me no pleaseing some people. i like the advert background!

😂😂😂 @ dezb

If it's [I]not[/I] an advert, why does a smaller version of exactly the same image appear between posts with the word "advertisement" above it (when logged out)?

Also the text that used to appear between posts saying "Go add free for £1.50/month" or whatever has gone (presumably because it's not true anymore!)

DezB has won the internet today. Great reference.

I'll just repeat what I wrote here 3 weeks ago:

Again, not disagreeing with you – which is why I suggest a sticky thread, with no other posts, just a daily/twice weekly/weekly update. Even if that update is “no update, same as yesterday, this quoting bug is proving tough”. There’s a lot of traffic on this thread, and I’m sure I’m guilty of moaning about things which have already been addressed. But it’s in between genuinely helpful reports, people taking the piss and generally frustrated “Is it fixed yet?” stuff.

It’s very chicken and egg, but I don’t think radio silence buys you any friends or credit. By “you” I mean “you, STW”, not “you, Cougar” 😉

I get that we’re a demanding group, but there’s a massive irony that a platform used for communication is delivering very poor communication. It doesn’t need much, and I’m sure most of us would rather Mark and the devs fixed stuff than came on here and posted about fixing stuff, but again – update thread. First thing in the morning. Once a day. Done. I presume they’re having some sort of huddle or something, and must know what the priorities are (even if they’re not front end fixes), so why not share them? Christ, I’ll happily write it if I know what’s happening. That’s a genuine offer.

When was the lesser spotted Alker seen in the wild?

Is it just me, or has the Last Post link for this thread run out of puff at 3,691 through 3,735 (of 3,744 total) on page 83 and can't make it into page 84?

A 'feature' that increases page impressions and ads served...so a 'busier' site making more money from ad streams...

Just logged on today for the first time and WTF is that blurry background to the forum. (Using a Lenovo Tablet)

Its a bit annoying as i can't see anything other than what appears to be the background to Minecraft.

Feedback to the chiefs....it's terrible and really distracting. Plus I can't see the point. Sorry.

[i]njee20 wrote:[/i]

When was the lesser spotted Alker seen in the wild?

Which one? 👿

Alt-tab away while it’s loading? That’s what I do.

Or right-click open in new tab, for several threads of interest, and wait for them to load in parallel because they take so long.  Devtools on my browser were timing it consistently between 11 and 13 seconds per page.  Open 4 pages, and see which one is ready first. One might be ready by the time you select the 5th page to open in parallel.

zokes + 2

Some of us do this stuff for a living and do actually know what we're talking about.

Cougar, when I load a page up in the Forum, the background advert tries to re-focus itself once the page is loaded. This results in the machine (Lenovo Tablet) having a hissy fit and booting me off the site altogether.

I know you sound like you are as fed up as us with the complaints but even as a P user the site is becoming unusable. And it's slow as normal.

Again, sorry to have to bring this up bud.

You just have the wrong equipment.

Wait...this isn't page 83?

Wait…this isn’t page 83?

Get with the indexing, Grandad.

You just have the wrong equipment

Story of my life dude.....

I don't spend that much time on here anymore but it looks like it's going to be even less. That "ADVERT" is pissing me off, not the ad so much but the principle of it being there when I've paid for it not to be. I like the plain white thank you and would like it to stay that way.

I've been a subscriber for years to both print and digital but I think this'll be the last year of subscription, I barely read the mag unless it's a review of something I'm looking to buy, or looking at the non advertising pictures of nice places to ride bikes.

What’s a swastika? A funny little cross with extra arms.

The Godwin’s to end all Godwin’s.

You can see why they had the lifer subs now..... 🙂

>You can see why they had the lifer subs now…..

Forgot about that! So glad I never bought one!

Drac, I know it's your MO, but do you think being so flippant and generally so bloomin' awkward will really help stop people getting so cross with the people who make a living off this site?

swavis

I barely read the mag unless it’s a review of something I’m looking to buy,

Well let me tell you right now, when it comes to bicycle related products it's hard to go wrong with Specialized. Specialized really do make some of the best bicycles, bicycle related paraphernalia and bicycle attire available for sale today.

Specialized ...they are number 1 in my eyes.

Drac, I know it’s your MO, but do you think being so flippant and generally so bloomin’ awkward will really help stop people getting so cross with the people who make a living off this site?

Really? I can’t make a joke.

Lolz @jimjam 😀

I don't really make a habit of commenting on these threads but I will add that if I pay for no adverts then to my mind it means no adverts and something with an "S" in the image is an advert (I'm assuming they paid for it). Sadly if this sort of thing continues I'll also be reluctantly removing my subscription.  Which will be a shame as I've been on STW for decades (literally) and the community has been very helpful and informative over that time.  However I can only conclude that "the community" isn't actually worth any money and so STW is having to make alternative arrangements.  Good luck to them.

🙂 @jimjam

oh it's page 84 aware now

dunno why it gave up at page 83 earlier

So this is the website without being logged in or any adblocker on – fairly obvious the background is an advert…

Yup... In internet advertising it's a skin, part of a site takeover (see leaderboard and DMPU down the side also). Site takeovers are one of the more valuable digital ad packages, usually sold on a tenancy (per day) basis. So if you have a "no ads" privilege as part of a subscription, you shouldn't really see the background image/skin.

Site takeovers are ace!

Technically, STW might not be ready to deliver different backgrounds via css for P and non P users. Might not be trivial for them to switch the background off for P peeps. Just live with it while this site takeover is live. No big deal really. If a STW person steps forward and says they'll look into sorting this before the next site takeover… will everyone be happy and stop moaning about this issue?

If a STW person steps forward

All those street defibrillators will make sense

>oh it’s page 84 aware now, dunno why it gave up at page 83 earlier

Like everything else it's completely intentional and part of the new user experience, specifically designed to drive away as many subscribers as possible.

Site takeover? Have the Russians got their way? Are STW being held to ransom? Being forced to brainwash us all into product purchase?

"It's not an ad" as in ad blockers aren't picking it up 😉

Ad or not, a big background image is another thing to consume memory and slow the page down for us 'P' folk. Not to mention scrolling content on a static background is so Myspace! What next, flying toasters? 😜

On the commercial websites with no fluff, tonnes of them. Microsoft, outside of "Bing" is generally just pure Microsoft content, and the support and technical stuff is plain content and basic formatting.

Less media and unnecessary fluff equals more responsive site, resulting in people staying around longer... oh wait, maybe not a good thing at work 😁 . Also, understandable that 'P' people hanging about isn't generating revenue compared to those with adverts.

All said though, if it's between fussing about ugly layout and the ridiculous quoting unfacility with HTML codes pasted everywhere, I'd rather have the latter sorted out.

Has £1.50 ever bought a greater sense of entitlement as it seems to have on here?

Dunno do you block the ads or have them on your screen?

Has £1.50 ever bought a greater sense of entitlement as it seems to have on here?

says the person not paying it

Has £1.50 ever bought a greater sense of entitlement as it seems to have on here?

I used to subscribe, I paid the £1.50 to support the forum because I don’t ride MTBs anymore. It was a way of supporting Mark and Chips in thier original “let’s make a forum for like minded, open it out and encourage and enhance the sales of the Mag”

I have no problem with that.

Then came the ads.

Then came the appalling “log out” syndrome, and I got bored of thier “it’s not us it’s you” and frankly that’s incorrect. There are reasons for the log outs, purely commercial.

I did not subscribe to delete the adverts, though in the work environment that’s a bonus and gives those “ah, stuff it I’ll see what’s going on on STW” moments validation.

Then came more ads, then the pop ups and redirects.

Then more log out issues and I thought to myself “the original ethos of the forum has been trampled/or lost and it’s now purely a commercial endeavour”

Which, to some degree I have no problem with. It’s a commercial site selling Magazines in an increasingly more saturated marketplace and limited viewing and exposure time, complex revenue streams and chasing decereasing advert revenue. So at a base level I still support thier endeavour for actually standing by a forum, turning the servers on and employing staff to oversee and fix and develop.. no problem with that, because development and maintenance is costly and every commercial endeavour must seek to recoup the costs.

So, am I entitled? No, I’m a user who gripes when things on here go wrong because it annoys my UX of the site and the contributors, I have no more right to moan about the site and the staff as I do at my place of work.

Am i embittered ? Nope, genuine gripes should be checked and challenged IMO. That’s how humans learn and discover.

Have I questioned why I’m still here ? Yes, plenty of times. In the main I don’t think I have anything in common with 90% of the contributors, the 10% make me laugh and I’ll happily engage.

Is this site transient? Yes, to me it is. It’s part of my life at the moment, someday I’ll move on and leave my thoughts in type which will be lost in space.

and on entitlement there are some simple principles in business that go a long way

When you enter into an agreement stick to the terms

If you want to change the terms come and talk to people about it

If you screw up come and talk to people about it

That isn't being entitled is it.

and on entitlement there are some simple principles in business that go a long way

When you enter into an agreement stick to the terms

If you want to change the terms come and talk to people about it

If you screw up come and talk to people about it

That isn’t being entitled is it.

Nope, it isn't, that sounds perfectly sensible to me...

Ad or not, a big background image is another thing to consume memory and slow the page down for us ‘P’ folk.

I don't recall any agreement that says "premier users will receive a text-only page."

On the commercial websites with no fluff, tonnes of them. Microsoft, outside of “Bing” is generally just pure Microsoft content

You're comparing STW, a small independent publishing company striving to make ends meet, with Microsoft who could run the entire STW operation out of their coppers jar?

Have a think about why Microsoft perhaps might not be reliant on third-party website advertising to stay in business and keep their site online.  Go ahead, I'll wait.

I got bored of thier “it’s not us it’s you” and frankly that’s incorrect.

No-one has ever said this in the history of the world.  STW has been unable to reliably replicate the problem (and nor have I despite repeated attempts to try), and if you can't replicate a problem then it's very difficult to fix.  It's neither "us" (STW) nor "you," rather it's some compatibility issue between the forum and whatever platform you're using which has never been reliably nailed down.

There are reasons for the log outs, purely commercial.

That's bullshit and you know it.  Aside from anything else, if that were the case it'd be happening to everyone.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Cougar which is a first as I usually find myself agreeing with you. If a big poster paid for by a company with a logo in the corner isn't an advert then I'm not sure what it is. If that was on the side of a building it'd be an advert so no different online.

Panic over everyone it’s gone.

Right now to sort out whose Ted’s whose.

logged out multiple times trying to reply to various posts.

Should I feel lucky that's a new one for me?

I don’t recall any agreement that says “premier users will receive a text-only page.”

Nope we signed up for no ads. See the simple explanation I posted.

Drac said

Panic over everyone it’s gone.

No it's probably just expired as Specialized will have paid for a 1 day take over to promote the launch of the new bikes.

Still no word from the inside though so nobody really knows what is going on with that top priority list that was posted

As this is a forum, the users actually contribute to it.  Without them it wont exist.

So that does skew somewhat the discussion about being entitled.  Its almost a two way exchange, we provide the content, STW provides the servers.  The trick is getting it paid for without pissing off the users.

Also STW started out with a different feel and ethos to the rest when it was just a Magazine.  That spread to the early forum.

The commercialisation of it and changes have slowly eroded that to the extent the users increasingly no longer see it the same way.

Took me a while to notice the big pretty pikcher has gone. Thanks for listening STW.

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Drac

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Panic over everyone it’s gone.

Right now to sort out whose Ted’s whose.

Do you have to be quite so sanctimonious?

Edit: though credit where it’s due, it does seem that the simple act of copying a poster’s name into a post doesn’t result in 10 pages of html vomit