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Ok.
While you may have a reasonable expectation for a response from Mark just remember he has a life too. Like others his life is his own and at times life gets in the way of other things. So if you expecting an answer off Mark just now it’s not going to happen.
[i]mikewsmith wrote:[/i]
I guess it’s that one though quoting is now a bit ambiguous now you can’t (easily) include who posted.
If you're using Chrome on desktop, the extension does that (sorry, still not officially published though I'll give a link again if anybody is interested, but trying not to spam too much). The formatting still messes up sometimes, though given it looks fine in the supposedly WYSIWYG box when you're typing that's still a problem with the forum rather than the extension, so I CBA investigating further.
edit: you're using the extension TJ, does the "quote" link at the top of the post not work? Maybe I didn't release the latest version I'm using? I suspect I'm not going to do much more with it - I did have plans, but it works about as well as can be expected now and I have a lot of real work on, so should try and do an official release.
So if you expecting an answer off Mark just now it’s not going to happen.
My expectations are nowhere near that high! 😆
Hence "Thought maybe"
[size=8]”scroteroutes” wrote:[/size]
How you do that in different font TJ?
My expectations are nowhere near that high!
I was unaware it was even a possibility.
No idea. I typed in ( minus the spaces)
[ quote = " scroteroutes " ] I'm sparticus [ / quote ]
My 'p' has lapsed and i can't be bothered to renew.. I'm sure the number of ads has increased massively in the year i was a 'p'
On another note, is it just me or have the timings on posts all gone weird? I clicked on a theread that said '11 minutes ago' on the main page, but the last reploy was from an hour ago on the actual thread.
Also, is the 'threads replied to' section gone for good? the psots created doesnt link to the threads...
aracer - no - I stopped using your extension
The whole “pay me to stop spamming you with horribly invasive and annoying ads” forum business model is well established in forum land.
Jimjam – I use another forum that does not have all these intrusive ads. Its off the shelf software and its enthusiast run tho not commercial
I think, from the second half of his post, he was joking. If not then I agree, I use a number of other forums and have never seen anything even approaching that level of illegibility!
Edit: WTF can you not even now do two separate quotes without it assuming it's one?! Only by pressing enter about 5 times it seems.
[i]ferrals wrote:[/i]
On another note, is it just me or have the timings on posts all gone weird? I clicked on a theread that said ’11 minutes ago’ on the main page, but the last reploy was from an hour ago on the actual thread.
I think it's been commented on already and probably related to something which happened yesterday - I'm finding it kind of amusing that amongst everything else one bit of the software is on GMT and the other is on BST. Though I'm sure that like everything else, that was exactly what Mark was expecting.
[quote="tjagain"]No idea. I typed in ( minus the spaces)
By jove, an [i]improvement[/i]! 😆
Funny how mine's come out different though. (nuts)
Though I’m sure that like everything else, that was exactly what Mark was expecting.
It's an existentialist feature. We get to experience the duality of time through being both in the present and in the past.
...or something.
So the first post in this thread was 2 months ago. So its taken that long to mess with the fonts a bit, make it faster (occasionally) and errrr.... that's it.
Will this forum be here as any more than a ghost forum by Christmas?
While you may have a reasonable expectation for a response from Mark just remember he has a life too. Like others his life is his own and at times life gets in the way of other things. So if you expecting an answer off Mark just now it’s not going to happen.
How long would it actually take to make a response, <30 minutes IME. So how much of his life is it really taking up?
Surely stakeholder / customer etc. engagement is important, and if it isn't then don't expect to stay loyal to your business.
[i]dragon wrote:[/i]
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">How long would it actually take to make a response, <30 minutes IME. So how much of his life is it really taking up?</span>
I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into Drac's comment, but it may be there are things in his life right now meaning he doesn't feel like even spending 30 minutes on this. Something to bear in mind...
(I'm usually the last person to defend Mark, but there is the STW forum and then there is real life and whilst the lines are blurred for many of us who's real lives have been enhanced by interactions which started on the forum, it's sometimes worth remembering the difference between the two)
bottom of the list but why do you get asked to subscribe to ST when your already a subscriber?
How long would it actually take to make a response, <30 minutes IME. So how much of his life is it really taking up?
Perhaps you should take a little longer to think before responding. The time it takes is not always the issue.
Just spat mine out, perchy
Mark’s been on holiday.
He has however been back for long enough to not really be an excuse.
That’s not the reason.
Someone mentioned “real life” - a holiday kinda fits that description and that was straight from his office that he’d been away and was back so not “heresay”.
It’s not a Sunday is it?
iDave went on holiday too.
Just saying...
This thread is showing as 79 pages on the overview page for me but has 80 (at the moment)
That’s not the reason.
I don't think that alluding to a problem is helpful or appropriate.
I don’t think that alluding to a problem is helpful or appropriate.
Usual MO, tho.
Allude to something without spelling it out, when people press for clarification you can then call them a monster for not being more sympathetic to the fact something really bad has happened. Even tho they had no way of knowing.
This thread is showing as 79 pages on the overview page for me but has 80 (at the moment)
Meaning a double click to get to the last post
MOAR page impressions FTW!
You know, if I were a member of a club where I hated the club, hated the assistants, hated the staff, hated the owners, and yet remained a member, I’d start to question my own sanity.
#Snark
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Yeah whatever Jamie.
I use an iPad Mini and a couple of Mac Minis and a MacBook Air and a MotoG to access the forum and even without logging in I find it OK if I don't want to search. If I do search I use Google. For what I want from the forum it is pretty much right.
I hated the font and that has changed so I'm happy.
Just trying to point out that not everyone uses the forum the same way or for the same things.
[quote='ferrals']My ‘p’ has lapsed
I had that last year...proctologist sorted it....
Drac said...
Ok.
While you may have a reasonable expectation for a response from Mark just remember he has a life too. Like others his life is his own and at times life gets in the way of other things. So if you expecting an answer off Mark just now it’s not going to happen.
If that is the case, which is probably resonable if he has other life things to get on with... can you answer if they have the list of top questions and gripes that are being raised?
Can he give a quick summary to Chips or somebody who can relay the message, I'm sure we could all live without FGF once?
There’s been a list from day one which is being worked through.
To be fair, I've not passed on my own list in weeks. Mia culpa.
but nobody from STW wants to comment on whats on it, what features that are gone are coming back and how it's going.
3 weeks radio silence on the Our Forum Daily Updates thread 🙁
I am getting only 79 pages on the main forum page on this thred - click on it and it takes me to page 79 of 80 so some bug there
Why not just let Mark & his team continue working to improve the forum without all the sniping comments and criticism.
It must be fuggin' depressing to read the steady stream of negativity with only the occasional positive comment.
Would that dick you off in your work? It certainly would in my life.
I've just got a fish finger sandwich!
steady stream of negativity with only the occasional positive comment.
Would that dick you off in your work? It certainly would in my life.
Well when shit has gone wrong at work and customers were unhappy I learnt early on that silence doesn't work. As hard or annoying as it is I had to grow a pair and face the music with some honesty and a plan going forewards.
Why not just let Mark & his team continue working to improve the forum without all the sniping comments and criticism.
BEcause from what we can see, they're not actually doing that.... Without knowing they're doing something you'd find it easy to believe no-one cares or is actually working on anything.
Many of us pay membership for the forum/website, which should bring with it some form of "OK, we're doing this, that and looking into this"
We've not even had "Trust us, we're on the case"
As for the not even being able to spare 30 mins... We don't care WHO at STW writes it, or how long, heck i'd be happy with 20 words of reassurance that i'm not spending money every month for no reason at all.
Would that dick you off in your work?
Yep, because it would tell me my work hasn't been good enough.
That’s a very fair point Weeksy there has been updates to that effect, I accept not for awhile, but for every positive feedback from members there’s a lot of voices (same voices) who moan and undermine the feedback. This just becomes so disheartening that it hardly seems worth updating members with what is going on.
They are working away, some of the changes are stand out obvious others aren’t such as the little fix yesertday with quoting. Then there was the work put in to try and kill the pop ups which seems to be resolved still. They continue to march on with it, it’s taking longer than they’d hoped for and longer than members hoped for. Still the forum can be used to post, the articles remain and the mag is still going for those who subscribe.
Cheers for hanging in there.
It's undeniable things are a lot better than they were a couple of weeks ago. The forum is generally a lot faster, some of the formatting issues have been sorted. It's usable and seems a lot more stable than it was.
The process may not have been pretty to watch, and the comms less than ideal, but demanding that the owner comes on here grovelling every five minutes wouldn't solve stuff any quicker. Hopefully the place will get livelier again now it doesn't take 10 minutes to read a thread and post a response.
I still reserve the right to take the piss out of giant emojis, though. 🙂
I’d just ban all the
(same voices)
Bosh. Problem solved.
Would fix the problem of not being able to offer semi-frequent updates due to these miserly urchins stinking up the place with their sniping and constant criticism.
I still reserve the right to take the piss out of giant emojis, though. 
What giant emojis????? 😉
😀
They are working away, some of the changes are stand out obvious others aren’t such as the little fix yesertday with quoting. Then there was the work put in to try and kill the pop ups which seems to be resolved still. They continue to march on with it, it’s taking longer than they’d hoped for and longer than members hoped for. Still the forum can be used to post, the articles remain and the mag is still going for those who subscribe.
Why not say that then? People just want feedback, not radio silence and snarky comments in response to what are seen as sniping comments because people don't get any feedback.
It's been over a month, I get that it's all complex and that, but that's an insanely long time. If Mark has something going on in his life then obviously that should take precedence, but why not say so? You're still half defending him by being aggressive and evasive, none of which are helpful, at all. You're reluctant PR people without the information.
The members here are paying for the forum, either directly or indirectly. If everyone leaves then there is no forum. Which probably means a scaling back of devs (or Marks). So surely a daily (or weekly even) "here's what's going on, this is the priority list, this is what we're hoping to achieve today, here's what we fixed yesterday" bulletin would be helpful. It should take less than 10 minutes each day to write. It doesn't need to come from Mark, if he's got some vague personal issues that may or may not be a factor. It can be on a sticky thread which is closed to any one but the staff member posting.
That's exactly what I've had to do with things that are impacting more people than a bike forum. It's not difficult.
It is better than it was, I'm still finding it very slow, a month after we were told it was server migration. Is that still the cause?
Seems to be lots of folk craving contact with Mark?
What is this?
Alkerholics Anonymous?
I'll certainly agree it's better than it was 3-4-6 weeks back...Of that there's very little doubt.
The overriding thing for me is definitely the slowness, and that's no better. I also find there's no 'feedback' when I click on something, those two things combine for a very frustrating experience.
I don't actually care about those things if someone said "ah, yes, it's still very slow isn't it!? Server migration didn't work properly, we need to have another go at that in due course, but first we're sorting some security issues behind the scenes, and we're going to fix quoting because that's an easier fix and it's annoying more people".
Instead we get "It's a ****ing bike forum, get over it FFS, there's stuff happening. God. How would you like it if people told you your work was shit?". Which is really amateur.
such as the little fix yesterday with quoting.
What fix?
What fix?
You unappreciative scoundrel!
i reckon they’ve all gone to another wedding.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">Drac
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That’s not the reason.
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So has there been a server migration whatsit?
Cause its painfully slow this last couple of days and some new little bugs have appeared. Like after posting a reply the thread still appears way down in the thread list but with updated timing
Well it wasn't that.
Case in point.
Instead we get “It’s a **** bike forum, get over it FFS, there’s stuff happening. God. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">How would you like it if people told you your work was shit?”.</span> Which is really amateur.
Well, I probably wouldn’t like it. But given that I have some professional pride, I’d go away and bloody well do it better. Were it a client’s criticism, I’d also be damned sure to explain what went wrong and how things are being rectified. It’s called being a grown up.
It may well be out of their hands, which I get, but again, you just tell people stuff.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting this is actually important in the grand scheme of things, it's just really frustrating.
It's the difference between your bike shop phoning you and saying "we're really sorry, the parts didn't arrive, but we're hoping they'll be here today and then we'll fix your bike for tomorrow", versus waiting for you to come to collect it and saying "jesus, our mechanic tried, why are you so impatient, it's just a bike!? Don't you know his brother's ill!?".
It may well be out of their hands, which I get, but again, you just tell people stuff.
I don’t think anyone here is suggesting this is actually important in the grand scheme of things, it’s just really frustrating.
For what it's worth, I don't disagree. It's frustrating for us as moderators too.
Just to stretch your analogy though, there's a third option here. You ring and are told that it's being worked on, then you ring every half an hour asking for an update, getting more and more aggressive, and then as soon as the shop assistant gets the slightest bit impatient you take the "well that's not very professional" moral high ground.
(I don't mean "you" njee, rather the "you" in the example.)
My experience of attempting to pass on information here is that half of the more prolific posters go "thanks for letting us know, that's great" and the other half spend the next three pages shouting about how it's all shit, how STW is doing it wrong and how their 12 year old knocked up a forum in an afternoon with no adverts. If I were Mark I'd be reluctant to post too. We might get more favourable communication if this place wasn't such a ****ing bear-pit at times.
Again, not disagreeing with you - which is why I suggest a sticky thread, with no other posts, just a daily/twice weekly/weekly update. Even if that update is "no update, same as yesterday, this quoting bug is proving tough". There's a lot of traffic on this thread, and I'm sure I'm guilty of moaning about things which have already been addressed. But it's in between genuinely helpful reports, people taking the piss and generally frustrated "Is it fixed yet?" stuff.
It's very chicken and egg, but I don't think radio silence buys you any friends or credit. By "you" I mean "you, STW", not "you, Cougar" 😉
I get that we're a demanding group, but there's a massive irony that a platform used for communication is delivering very poor communication. It doesn't need much, and I'm sure most of us would rather Mark and the devs fixed stuff than came on here and posted about fixing stuff, but again - update thread. First thing in the morning. Once a day. Done. I presume they're having some sort of huddle or something, and must know what the priorities are (even if they're not front end fixes), so why not share them? Christ, I'll happily write it if I know what's happening. That's a genuine offer.
sbob
Member
Well it wasn’t that.
Wasn’t what?
The thing where quoting the member name returns all the mark up stuff.
Are you sure?
<div class="bbp-reply-author">Drac
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Are you sure?
Nope.
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Change that to yes.
sbob
Member
Change that to yes.
What OS, browser and versions are you using?
What OS, browser and versions are you using?
Here's a thought - why should it matter? If success in this respect is having a Quote process that involves 5 or 6 non-intuitIve actions rather than just having a Quote button like every other forum then the point has been rather spectacularly missed.
So it can be fixed.
Win 10 + Firefox Quantum 59.0.2 (64-bit) , so all up to date.
Thanks Sbob.
No idea why it’s not working for you and it is others but with your info it may help.
lose your 12 year old nephew analogy.. what about when a fullstack developer with lots of industry experience tells you it's wrong from the ground up... then maybe I'd twig that something is completely borked. I'd be utterly ashamed if I was one of the dev's "working" on this. As I'd know that the entire process has been a joke and handled like a 12 year old with dreamweaver and an adhd.
Considering the way print has gone I'd have treat this like the holy grail. If you lose your online membership or traffic then I suspect things won't be so hunky dory at stw headquarters. Which is why I think this is quite serious and not "just a mtb forum".
Forgive me if I'm wrong but surely monetizing the traffic is what you are attempting to do better?
Also - FYI complete balls like "google said we need this font size to be good for SEO" I'd maybe try to relearn a few things or at least stick to your guns... how about the 1000s of pages of post results that use a 12px font as the main size! An absolute joke.
You're building a mess that won't refactor itself with your current dev. Fact.
Why not just pay for a review from a well regarded developer or agency and take feelings out of it and see what you are missing with facts - not opinions.
Oh and the no time for an update makes less sense when one these keep dropping
Another newsletter to all subscribers/members
lose your 12 year old nephew analogy..
It wasn't my analogy BTW, I was paraphrasing what others have said.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">alexxx
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lose your 12 year old nephew
Poor advice.
(Testing)
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mikewsmithSubscriber
Oh and the no time for an update makes less sense when one these keep dropping
Ooooh! I’ve nearly got a full house.
mikewsmith
Subscriber
Oh and the no
(Testing)
There's a really easy answer to providing updates which would require no (extra) work at all from anybody being paid to do this. Just give public read only access to Trello or whatever else it is you're using to track issues as part of the upgrade process. I'm sure some of us on here who know about such things would happily interpret for free to those who aren't used to such management and issue tracking tools. Obviously the information is already available because the process is being documented so it's just a question of communication.
[i]Cougar wrote:[/i]
My experience of attempting to pass on information here is that half of the more prolific posters go “thanks for letting us know, that’s great” and the other half spend the next three pages shouting about how it’s all shit, how STW is doing it wrong and how their 12 year old knocked up a forum in an afternoon with no adverts. If I were Mark I’d be reluctant to post too. We might get more favourable communication if this place wasn’t such a ****ing bear-pit at times.
Of course the other side of that is that when people on here with direct knowledge of the sort of work being done post comments suggesting that there might be better ways of doing things, we're told by Mark that we're all wrong and that we couldn't possibly understand without visiting in person (which in itself seems an incredibly strange thing to have to do with an IT project in an age where everything is in the cloud, I can do the work I do from pretty much anywhere and often you never see any of your customers in person). The main reason Mark has got lots of flack isn't because people are being unreasonably demanding, but because of his attitude to his customers when he has dared to raise his head - as I suggested way earlier in this thread, it would go a long way if he was just prepared to admit that it's all gone a bit wrong and could have been done better rather than telling us "it's all gone exactly as we expected" and treating people who know a lot about this sort of thing with disdain. It's a bit ridiculous to expect people who have far more experience of software releases than Mark does to swallow the idea that it wasn't possible to test more before release in order to avoid most of these problems - and when we're told that they have multiple test servers on which the system was tested before release and still it is released with all those flaws then either somebody issued a JFDI instruction (in which case just tell us that!) or we're being lied to. I'm doing a release this week, it will be full of flaws, but we're going to admit that to the customer and we're not going to claim it is all as expected - I'd like it to be a lot better than it is, but crucially it is already better than their existing system, and to some extent we are in a JFDI situation here because the customer wants a system now (personally given a choice I'd delay the release for a couple of weeks). As somebody who works in management of IT stuff yourself, explain to me how I'm wrong...
So the issue isn't that people are being unreasonably critical, but that we feel like we're being condescended - you might get more favourable responses to the communication if it was more honest. It's all very well communicating with us, but when what's being communicated about the reasons why it has to be like this smell a bit funny then it's hard to be positive. Sorry not having a go at you personally here, clearly you're just passing on what you've been told.
[i]scotroutes wrote:[/i]
What OS, browser and versions are you using?
Here’s a thought – why should it matter? If success in this respect is having a Quote process that involves 5 or 6 non-intuitIve actions rather than just having a Quote button like every other forum then the point has been rather spectacularly missed.
Oh, and this. I'm not sure I've ever seen a credible explanation of why so many wheels have to be reinvented here. This is where the 12yo analogy comes in, because it is so straightforward to make a forum with all the functionality we're still missing here. If it's a migration thing then I know all about that and it can be a complete PITA, but it's something you only have to do once. I also appreciate the need to monetise the forum, but neither does that require building the whole thing from scratch.
Ooooh! I’ve nearly got a full house.
Well done, must be really fun there.
So far you have a system where people (Customers) have no idea if something is a bug or a feature, have no idea if it's been reported or being fixed, get shouted down for raising things and end up getting frustrated with pointless feedback from 2 people who don't actually have any idea whats being done - is that house?
aracer +1