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POST REMOVED BY MODS, BREACHING RULE#1
Bit of a weaselly and passive form of words, isn't it? Might as well just say "POSTER IS A DICK". Or is that just the wrong side of the line? Just lose the capitals, maybe?
Does this mean we should all ride our bikes more?
I'm intending to.
I started off reading this thread thinking I hadn't noticed any change in tone on the forum. Then I realised that I've just got really good at avoiding the threads that descend into name calling (or bailing on them when I spot the signs). It'd be nice to have to do that less so I hope this sparks a bit of a change.
+1
I like the 'breaching rule #1' idea.
Aware I've overstepped the mark from time to time. Appreciate the mods work.
I’ll let you into a little secret. They’re winging it. (-:
Fair enough!
No, I'm not aggrieved at all, with some subjects I'm aware that I'm a bit close to the issue to see the big picture. I've always felt very supported on here, there are some users who have always been great and you (Cougar) have been one of them. Thank you.
The general malaise that has infected this country since, oh I don’t know say 2015/16, has understandably infected this forum. We have all become a little bit more polarised (and 2 years of global pandemic has also added to the toll).
There have always been users whose sole aim is a windup. It’s just now people have shorter fuses and when these users (please don’t ban me for swearfilter avoidance 🤪) crop up on ‘serious’ threads (such as the coronavirus one which has been an excellent source of information from seriously qualified people, yes TiRed I’m talking about you) and deliberately derail it it makes people angrier as it really is a pretty shitty thing to do (I’d argue some threads need stricter moderation than others as a consequence).
This is why I’d personally like to see a ‘block user’ function. There are certain users whose posts I consciously avoid reading as I know what they are trying to do. But every now and again I end up reading one by mistake. That way I can easily ignore them and enhance my ‘experience’ of the forum.
I have personally increasingly found this space to be less suited to me (whether that is a result of the change in general feel of the place or a change in me I don’t know) but it has been instrumental in me cancelling my paid membership (I used to print +digital and kept print going for a lot longer due to the pandemic) but I interact a lot less these days and anticipate a further tapering.
I don’t actually expect people to give a **** about that but, hey, it’s my tuppence worth.
Very well put metalheart, my thoughts entirely. Nothing else to add really.
Hobnob anyone?
Bit harsh, he only usually posts about whatever new expensive bike he's riding that week.
Very well put metalheart, my thoughts entirely. Nothing else to add really.
+1
Right down to the not renewing my membership because I don't value this site the way I used to.
I started off reading this thread thinking I hadn’t noticed any change in tone on the forum.
+1
Although by about post 3 on this thread it was pretty obvious what Mark was talking about! People instantly wanting to punch the player and don't even know what a football is!
Everything that Metalheart said.
with some subjects I’m aware that I’m a bit close to the issue to see the big picture
Sure. But understand, reporting a post isn't necessarily "hey, this user did something wrong, I demand you sort it out!" but rather just bringing something to the moderators' attention. Like the old Yellow Pages advert, "it's not just there for the nasty things in life." You could report a compliment if you like. It doesn't matter how close you are to something, you don't need to make that call. Rather you're just flagging it up so that someone else can.
Several times I've seen posts talking about moderator inaction, the implication being that this is some sort of tacit approval of someone's output, when the truth of the matter was that we simply hadn't seen it.
I've thought about cancelling my membership a few times. Keep coming back though regardless of my membership as it's still a decent place to hang out even if a there's opinions that can grate a bit. I prefer the less serious threads especially if there's the opportunity to make some crap jokes. Now I've checked, turns out my membership cancellation is pending. Won't rule out resubscribing again though at some point.
I thought about this subject, Dracs "use more smilie's" comment and my posts in here a lot last night. As I'm always busy at work, I tend to jump on the forum, skim read and then quickly slam a response in.
What I've learned from here is this often results in a pretty cold piece of writing, so I shall make more effort to read and understand a thread properly, and colour my vocabulary accordingly to appear less of a cold hearted arsehole in the future
Every days a school day, thanks for posting the op it and the efforts of the Moderators are appreciated 🙂
Despite everything, this is the only forum I’ve ever frequented where someone will say “sorry”, so it’s worth preserving.
I thought about this subject, Dracs “use more smilie’s” comment and my posts in here a lot last night.
I’ve no idea what you’re on about there, did I say?
I see you point though.
I gave myself a months time out after receiving a warning from the Mods. It was completely fair and I respect the work the moderators do on here. I’ll try and walk away before responding to some posts or just ignore certain threads.
I’ve no idea what you’re on about there, did I say?
Nah, he's referring to something I said. Isn't Mixingmymoderators something rabbits can catch?
The Internet would likely be a much friendlier place if all the browsers automatically appended 🙂 to everyone's posts.
🙂
Sorry, wrong Mod. you all look the same 😉
(BTW, Stickies have vanished in the plethora of normal threads with the update)
I just assume the majority of posts on here have an implied eyeroll emoji.
ONE HUNDRED!
Fred?
Sorry, wrong Mod. you all look the same 😉
Yeah, we've never been seen in the same room together...
Oh, wait, yes we have.
(also, #notamod )
The bigotry thing doesn't always work in my experience. I've seen some very reasonable and patient posters accused of bigotry once the accuser realises they are losing an argument.
Perhaps I'm not very attuned to people being knobs but I see way worse every day at work or in the world in general.
If someone has a different opinion than me that's their choice and my opinion is mine I doubt I'm going to make them think my way by "shouting" at them?
I would say this place has given me a fantastic insight into many subject I had no knowledge of and I hope occasionally people have gained the odd nugget of info from me?
In some of my darkest times and others, people have rallied round and given such support that I think we all need to take a step back and appreciate it.
The last 2 years has been tough on pretty much everyone so I guess its like big family Christmases after a while someone says something that narks a few family members off, Christ we even have a yearly thread on it.
Anyway I'm probably talking bobbins as I've had 2 days of IV Antibiotics for Cellulitis in my left leg!
I doubt I’m going to make them think my way by “shouting” at them?
If only a half a dozen more people would realise that, the mods could have a week off.
I am listening and I am rather ashamed of my part in the deterioration of civility of discourse on here
Oh, wait, yes we have.
Mod Christmas party? Must be fun, a bit like like the chuckle brothers albeit correcting each others conversation at every sentence.
😀
I keep saying you're all a bunch of jerks. If you weren't, Mark wouldn't have had to start this thread.
By the time we get to page 7 😉
Fred?
🤣
I’ve thought about cancelling my membership a few times. Keep coming back though regardless of my membership as it’s still a decent place to hang out even if a there’s opinions that can grate a bit. I prefer the less serious threads especially if there’s the opportunity to make some crap jokes. Now I’ve checked, turns out my membership cancellation is pending. Won’t rule out resubscribing again though at some point.
FWIW, having read through this thread, it’s occurred to me that this place has aspects of a workplace, in that there are always people that have a rather abrasive personality, those who have different opinions, sometimes at odds to the majority, and some who are just bloody difficult to live with!
One advantage of STW, though; you can just leave a thread, or turn it off, unlike a workplace, without awkward consequences.
FWIW, having read through this thread, it’s occurred to me that this place has aspects of a workplace, in that we spend at least 8 hours a day here
I would say this place has given me a fantastic insight into many subject I had no knowledge of and I hope occasionally people have gained the odd nugget of info from me?
In some of my darkest times and others, people have rallied round and given such support that I think we all need to take a step back and appreciate it.
This.
FWIW, having read through this thread, it’s occurred to me that this place has aspects of a workplace, in that there are always people that have a rather abrasive personality, those who have different opinions, sometimes at odds to the majority, and some who are just bloody difficult to live with!
Just like many contexts in‘real’ life.
One small (Hopefully) request. If I report a post would it be possible to get some vary brief feedback or even just an acknowledgement?
LOL yeah so they can pick holes in it.
I've not reported any posts since I've been on here. Had a few of my full and frank exchanges deleted without any direct insults coming from me.
I don't always agree with moderation decisions but understand it's a difficult thankless task and is not always going to fall in line with my view of things.
I'd be interested to see who reports and what frequency displayed next to their username!!!
I’ve had feedback from Mods when I’ve asked for it. I personally insulted someone and, to be fair, I’d do it again and to their Face if I ever met them in person. Totally fine with the Mods response though. Clues in the name.
One thing that I have noticed over the last couple of years is that some people expect you to take a side on everything. Being ambivalent isn’t allowed and certain people here and in real life are seriously offended by someone not really giving a shit about something one way or the other.
That and shutting down opinions that aren’t agreed with. That’s a dangerous road. How’re you supposed to have debate without varied opinions. It’s just not possible.
I’d be interested to see who reports and what frequency displayed next to their username!!!
Not going to happen
Not going to happen
shame.
One thing that I have noticed over the last couple of years is that some people expect you to take a side on everything.
Yes it has got worse than it was. There was always a handful of misinformed big mouths, but now there's tag teams high fiving each other in and out of threads. Certain threads send them into PR/propaganda overdrive!
The value of the forum, and it’s the only one i frequent, is when things go wrong. Then you see honest posts, compassion and sound advice. And apologies. Almost without exception. As for the windup bits, I must be good at ignoring them. I’m the Same person in real life as I post here and treat people the same as I would if they were sat in front of me. #neverbanned, in fact I don’t know if I’ve ever even been reported.
MCTD - if the half dozen you referred to ^^^ either moved on or buttoned it the forum could move towards self-moderating.
I've had three enforced breaks - aka bans; once for an insulting post about another poster who didn't deserve my vitriol.
The other two were both directed at a poster who has mastered the art of staying just - only just - on the right side of the line, attitude is both condescending and superior, openly challenges mods when it suits. No apologies from me for those incidents which, I think, generated reports/complaints from somewhere sur le continent.
Wow never knew that!
😉
I think rule #1 is too low a bar. People are dicks all the time on this forum!
This place certainly iisn't like what it was a few years ago but then again neither is the country, or the world for that matter.
So whilst this place has got a bit more techy, it's also got a bit more serious with some topics that had been ignored or glossed over in the past receiving a bit of attention.
I miss the forum of old the way I miss the country of old but I'm glad this place still exists.
As for wind up merchants I just remind myself that the mods have probably got enough on their plate so I'll do my bit by trying to not act like a spring. Reviewing my reply and deleting where appropriate before sending has occasionaly helped in this regard....
Everyone on the forum is very civilised and polite IMO. Really.
The forum has also improved a lot and much better as far as I know.
Perhaps it's just me as I tend to misread others sometimes so when I response I ended up talking about something else sometimes.
I tried to make jokes occasionally but that did not go down well as my way of expression is not really "local", and I tried to use emoji but somehow that does not work anymore.
I tried to remember those that I should not reply to in order to avoid being misinterpreted etc but I forgot who they are sometimes.
Frankly, I prefer people as they are no matter the views or opinions.
Anyway, I don't think people are intentionally offensive but when they are on the forum they tend to express their "inner thoughts". I just type as if I am talking to the person so this may be a problem.
As for referencing "facts" I am rather lazy so this may cause a lot of problem to positivists.
Life is short.
Can't turn back the clock.
With the blink of an eye we will be old.
I think I joined this forum nearly 15 to 20 years ago ... I remember Brant was rather active in those days with all his successful business (still successful).
Brant,Brant,Brant
Worked every time and was genuinely useful when my Ti456 went postie AWOL. good times.
Play fair and please answer the cycling questions, frozen sausages in lawn does not solve every thread.
One thing I am noticing more of from the argumentative big hitters is added irrelevance. Padding out a response with facts that are unrelated to the point being debated. You can't really argue against because they are broadly valid but these things in no way strengthen their argument. I suppose there is a bit of dead cat in there.
One thing that I have noticed over the last couple of years is that some people expect you to take a side on everything. Being ambivalent isn’t allowed and certain people here and in real life are seriously offended by someone not really giving a shit about something one way or the other.
It's the internet/social media curse - all issues are black and white, there can be no grey, there can be no pragmatic middle ground.
I'm not sure it's worse now that it was 10-12 years ago. A couple of major wind up merchants left/calmed down and things settled down but the last couple of years have seen it come back.
Does seem a shame a post can only be reported once - multiple reports might indicate an issue of wider concern to the mods perhaps, but also generate more work for them of course
It also looks like the Mods haven't read Marks very first post on this thread. Maybe I should Report it to draw it to their attention?
TiRed - your contribution to STW has saved many of us. You're one of many who give such good advice and make this place a joy to still be part of.
If one has been here a long time its fairly easy to stay away from certain threads, certain, posters and certain subjects. Not so easy if you're a newbie.
The current level of debate on the indyref2 thread is an illustration for me of how bad things can get on here, very little real debate but a few individuals accusing each other of mudslinging, it seems to happen to all the long running threads
it seems to happen to all the long running threads
Yep, a few big hitters arguing amongst themselves on points they've already argued over and have no intention of changing their mind on.
It's just not as funny as it used to be.
TiRed – your contribution to STW has saved many of us.
Well I’ve worn contact lenses for a long time, raced bikes and have a dog. And I dabble in the odd bit of science 😉. I don’t tend to do argument and steer clear of religion and politics. Except brexit and boris which are the exemplars of each of those topics. I think I’ve only ever reported a couple of posts too.
I always say that Social Media is not real life. The odd thing is STW feels much more like real life. Probably why I’m here and not shouting on Twitter.
Funny i think its all pretty much ok, but i am from the North East and have Aspergers....
A rare combination of self deprecation, taking the piss and not being offended.
I've not read any replies to Mark's original post, but the attitudes and general argumentative, ill feeling on here has been a thing for years and is the reason I stopped regularly participating, or even visiting.
I suspect there are many more who CBA with it these days as well.
Quite an interesting thread this.
IMO says alot about the age of people that post on the forum these days.
I miss the childish banter of 20 years ago, and the blatant taking the pee out of people, the constant bans that were handed out and the resurfacing of people.
But the people on the forum have now all grown up a bit and become less liberal and more dare I say it on STW - conservative in their middle age.
Cant wait until everyone is in their 90's and reverts back to their former more youthful childish core personalities
Of course this is all a bit tongue in cheek
I guess I steer away from threads that get a bit 'serious'
Is it still okay to just blunder into a long thread without reading anything and say you are all wrong as long as I don't call you idiots?
Back when we were talking about the BBC a little while ago, we had all the left-wingers saying it was too right-wing and all the right-wingers saying it was too left-wing. The conclusion was that they're probably doing OK.
After reading this thread, I think we're probably doing OK too.
Mumsnet has maximum number of posts per thread (1000 I think) and then it's automatically closed and a new thread has to be started if you want to continue to debate/argue over the subject, might help to stop long running threads rumbling along with nothing much new being said on them
Cant wait until everyone is in their 90’s and reverts back to their former more youthful childish core personalities
STW 2040:
Is tj the one on the left or the right?
But the people on the forum have now all grown up a bit and become less liberal and more dare I say it on STW – conservative in their middle age.
Interesting that you consider being right wing synonymous with grown up. Pretty much everyone I know has drifted leftwards as they age, as the callous injustices of the right become ever more obvious. There have been a few more blatant right-wingers on here in the last couple of years, but I don't think they are long termers who have become less lefty in middle age.
Overall, I don't actually think that things are worse than they were. I've been here since GoFar, and there have always been some very heated arguments and always people that the mods had to ban, both briefly and permanently. It might be interesting to know how many bans have been handed out over the years.
Lolz at Kryton!
Is that you next to me?
I miss the picolax days, but still love a good lurking look at the serious stuff
Interesting that you consider being right wing synonymous with grown up. Pretty much everyone I know has drifted leftwards as they age.
That's me, always thought I'd gone against the grain because conventional wisdom says you drift to the right as you age. Isn't the quote 'if you're not left wing when you're young, you have no heart, if you're not conservative when you're old you have no brain'. I hope that's not true as it makes me a heartless idiot!
Insofar as I followed politics in my youth, I took on my parents Conservatism. My childhood was filled with power cuts, rampant inflation, picket lines, strikes and what seemed to me to be unions and the left destroying the country and turning us into 'the sick man of Europe'. I admired Thatcher for standing up to them. I joined the army at 16 and did a full career which entrenched some of those views. Whilst I am proud of my military service it's not exactly conducive to broadening your political outlook! My early politics were a result of my environment and upbringing and not really examining or questioning what I was told.
I have since grown up, done different jobs, travelled, educated myself and become much more aware of social justice issues and the inequalities in society. I am very much more liberal/centre left in my outlook now and am appalled by the lying charlatans in power currently. I have had to completely reject things I used to take as concrete fact. It's all very unsettling for a 57 year old fella! Whilst I am now very suspicious of anyone with concrete, unwavering faith in any set of beliefs - I do envy the lost simplicity of that.
I suspect there are many more who CBA with it these days as well.
This.
I tend to just head for the Bike Forum these days and avoid the Chat.
It also looks like the Mods haven’t read Marks very first post on this thread. Maybe I should Report it to draw it to their attention?
You should whip your colleagues into shape #secretmod
Mumsnet has maximum number of posts per thread (1000 I think) and then it’s automatically closed and a new thread has to be started if you want to continue to debate/argue over the subject, might help to stop long running threads rumbling along with nothing much new being said on them
On the other hand, those threads may keep people occupied who would otherwise be a potential PITA everywhere else. (-: I'd rather one long-running thread than forty short near-identical ones.
Interesting that you consider being right wing synonymous with grown up.
It's often synonymous with being old. Grown up, not so much.
#bitofpoliticsthere #mynamesbeneltongoodnight
Genuinely thought this thread was going to be about cookie consent.
I’d rather one long-running thread than forty short near-identical ones.
That's a good point - makes it easy to keep track of which threads to avoid.
I’ve not read any replies to Mark’s original post, but the attitudes and general argumentative, ill feeling on here has been a thing for years and is the reason I stopped regularly participating, or even visiting.
I honestly don't think it's changed very much since I first started using this site 50 years or so back. Mostly it's just the way forums are. Stuff I learned running a very busy forum from an editorial stance for over decade included the unfortunate reality that a small number of vocal, unpleasant posters can set the tone for a whole community. The answer to this, is simply to get rid of them fast. I wonder if volunteer moderators are more reluctant to do this than 'owners'.
There's also the thing that some people still think forums are games rather than 'real life' and you say whatever you like without it meaning anything, while others quite reasonably realise that people are real and should be treated with respect. When the two tendencies meet, things tend not to end well, smileys or no smileys.
In essence it's really simple though. I would never say anything to someone online that I wouldn't face to face. I occasionally do, but I try not to.
But I have somehow missed the 'deterioration in politeness in discussions on here of late' that Mark cites, but maybe I've just been reading the wrong threads.
Yes. I'm real, even on here.
Insofar as I followed politics in my youth, I took on my parents Conservatism. My childhood was filled with power cuts, rampant inflation, picket lines, strikes and what seemed to me to be unions and the left destroying the country and turning us into ‘the sick man of Europe’. I admired Thatcher for standing up to them...... My early politics were a result of my environment and upbringing and not really examining or questioning what I was told.
I have since grown up, done different jobs, travelled, educated myself and become much more aware of social justice issues and the inequalities in society. I am very much more liberal/centre left in my outlook now and am appalled by the lying charlatans in power currently.
Very similar to me, and a large part of my education in the last 20 years has been on here.
I have somehow missed the ‘deterioration in politeness in discussions on here of late’ that Mark cites,
I'd blame the snowflakes but we already have an incessant thread for that.
But I have somehow missed the ‘deterioration in politeness in discussions on here of late’ that Mark cites, but maybe I’ve just been reading the wrong threads.
I've not seen too much of it either (at least I don't think I have, hopefully I'm not ignorantly participating) but I tend to avoid the long running threads where I think a lot of this takes place. IME once a thread gets past about 5 pages it deteriorates into polarised viewpoints with no desire to find compromise, at which point it becomes wasted effort even trying to engage.
The answer to this, is simply to get rid of them fast. I wonder if volunteer moderators are more reluctant to do this than ‘owners’.
The only 'reluctance' would be in so far as it's considered a last resort. We occasionally see posts here claiming "well, I was once banned for [insert trivial, petty reason here]" and it's simply untrue. The only way you'll get a suspension is either because other methods have failed or your behaviour is exceptional. Permanent bans are unusual and again you'd have to be either such a persistent offender that the Mods are left with little choice, or do something truly dramatic.
No-one is considered special though, the team wouldn't swerve giving someone a holiday just because they were a Full Member for instance. Paying two quid doesn't give you a free pass to be a bellend. In rare cases we had Subs issue refunds.
I dont really get involved on here as my opinions tend to not be so popular, which i accept as part of the fun of being involved on a forum. I only comment now if its something i feel i can comment on without bringing the wrath of STW onto me. I am kinda putting my head above with this comment. It ended for me when someone started making derogatory comments about my daughter in retaliation to something (Cant even remember what), i reported to Mark and he responded back with something akin to 'if you want to play the game, dont moan when they bite back'. Fair enough. Its your forum. But i am not surprised that this attitude has filtered down over time and become an issue.
The only ‘reluctance’ would be in so far as it’s considered a last resort. We occasionally see posts here claiming “well, I was once banned for [insert trivial, petty reason here]” and it’s simply untrue.
Indeed. One such case in this thread claims they were practically innocent. I’m not sure suggesting the use of a claw hammer to a group of people is exactly innocent.
No-one is considered special though
Your mum says I am.
I blame all the anger and negativity on the changes to the classifieds. It was all love, joy, drivetrains and green fields as far as the eye could see before ‘the big change’
I’m not sure suggesting the use of a claw hammer to a group of people is exactly innocent.
Do not dispense unwanted DIY advice. Got it!