Formula 1 2025 – WI...
 

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Formula 1 2025 – WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

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I'd rather my widget was associated with a cool team with likable drivers who all looked like they were having a good time rather than a right fister of a human being

Which is ironic isn't it? Because that was RB's image back at the start.


 
Posted : 28/06/2025 10:05 pm
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Posted by: thols2

Even if he wasn't winning races, he was a great ambassador for the brand.

I thought one of his reasons for not moving was that Mercedes didn’t want him as a brand ambassador when he’d finished racing. 


 
Posted : 29/06/2025 1:07 am
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Which is ironic isn't it? Because that was RB's image back at the start.

 Very true! And the RB brand in the extreme sports environment choose to associate themselves with 'athletes' that prioritize rad and seemingly adventurous lifestyle over winning medals at stuff. The F1 Motorsport brand have lost their cool - it's more of a winning at all cost, moaning and bullying mindset now. Granted that's probably more to do with the personality of two of the most prominent people in the team. But it's very unappealing. 


 
Posted : 29/06/2025 7:33 am
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Posted by: vlad_the_invader

So, Lando over half a second quicker than everyone else...how much of that advantage was a better car/driver vs everyone else screwed by Gaslys' spins?

If a rookie can jump in and set competitive times, the car's well-sorted. McL seem to have tyre temperatures under control, the other teams seem to be a long way behind on that. I think the flexi-wing question is now settled. I'm guessing all the teams will now switch their development completely onto next year's cars so it'll just be a Norris-Piastri fight for the driver's championship and, hopefully, a Ferrari-Merc fight for second place in the constructors'.


 
Posted : 29/06/2025 7:33 am
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The movie seems to be getting good reviews from non-F1 fan reviewers. Predictable plot, great camerawork seems to be the general theme.

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/f1-the-movie-review


 
Posted : 29/06/2025 1:20 pm
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Just been to see the F1 film, very brain out stuff, camera work is brilliant, some of the detail was a bit of a stretch, but it’s entertainment, not a documentary.

 

Going to watch it for realsies next weekend, for the first time ever. Excited doesn’t really cover it.


 
Posted : 29/06/2025 4:24 pm
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Drive of the weekend by Antoneli.


 
Posted : 29/06/2025 5:17 pm
 Bez
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The notable thing for me was how phlegmatic Verstappen was when he was taken out. Not just in the media pen but trackside in the immediate aftermath. It made me wonder what’s making him so relaxed—because I doubt he’d given up on the championship prior to this race.

Good job by Lando, though. Staying ahead in the first stint when Piastri had so much DRS advantage lap after lap wasn’t easy.

Really hoping Ferrari can get things a bit more sorted by Monza 🙂


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 9:34 am
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The notable thing for me was how phlegmatic Verstappen was when he was taken out. Not just in the media pen but trackside in the immediate aftermath. It made me wonder what’s making him so relaxed—

The times when he's had a strop or has been very aggressive/gone beyond acceptable on track have been very specific. Usually involving Hamilton or Russell, or occasionally Norris.

He sees them as a threat and can't stand being beaten by them and will cross boundaries to prevent that. Antonelli was not trying to pass him in a one on one battle, he just ****ed up and Max was in the wrong place, Max didn't feel like he had something to prove against him as I feel he is always trying to do with the others, often to the point of looking desperate.


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 12:40 pm
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Usually involving Hamilton or Russell, or occasionally Norris.

 

Maybe he hates Brits 😉


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 4:48 pm
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Of mercedes do snag Max fir next season where does Russell go as it’s clear he will be the driver to leave. Obviously there will be a vacancy at RB assuming he wants to work for Horner and RB want him if not then what?


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 8:15 pm
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Posted by: chrismac
where does Russell go as it’s clear he will be the driver to leave.

Audi?


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 8:30 pm
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 assuming he wants to work for Horner and RB want him if not then what?

 

This works both ways, but I think Russell holds more aces than Red Bull...let's face it, they're screwed if Max leaves as they (obviously) don't  even have a competent #2 driver in either team already 


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 8:36 pm
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Just for fun - fantasy F1 Team moves...

 

Oscar beats Lando for the World Champ and Lando retires due to stress and mental anxiety setting up a llama farm in Cornwal

Fred gets kicked out of Ferrari and Hamilton has no support so leave for Aston.

Stroll the Younger gets bored and goes to play tennis.

Max sees how much he can screw Mercedes and then goes for the spare seat at Ferrari to cause much team tension with Le Clerc.

Red Bull implodes and tries to grab Russel from Mercedes but loses him to McLaren so gets Bob from the local chip shop as a wild card.

Spare seat at Mercedes gets fought over by the other newbies and Hadjar gets it as he is better than I thought.

 

Drive to Survive reboot?

 

What fun ideas from you guys?


 
Posted : 30/06/2025 10:07 pm
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Posted by: Bez

The notable thing for me was how phlegmatic Verstappen was

I think even Max realises that when you qualified 7th, you're essentially in the pack with everyone else, and you're at the mercy of 'first corner' action. I think like a lot of these guys; he gets pee'd off when you've qualified pole or 2nd and that shit happens, but this year, he knows he's not in the hunt for either championship and that puts a different spin on it. 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 4:59 am
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I think Max will go to Aston Martin. I think he'd fit in better there


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 7:31 am
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Max to shock everyone and go to Cadillac to build the team around him. Fred gets the boot from Ferrari and Horner jumps ship to replace him. Hamilton leaves Ferrari to replace Stroll at Aston, Newey comes up with the class of the field again but the Lewis/Alonso grudge match reignites and hands the title to Alex Albon in a massively improved Williams.


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 7:48 am
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Posted by: vlad_the_invader

let's face it, they're screwed if Max leaves as they (obviously) don't  even have a competent #2 driver in either team already 

IMHO all their current drivers are fairly decent, nobody is incompetent. Nor was Albon, Sainz, Gasly, or Perez for that matter. 

Their problem is the car which seems to have an extremely narrow operating window, suiting Max and nobody else,  and secondly the main team putting way too much pressure on their second driver which kills their confidence.

 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 8:33 am
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Posted by: WorldClassAccident

Stroll the Younger gets bored and goes to play tennis.

I genuinely feel that Lance Stroll is being held against his will 🤣 

He definitely wants to go play tennis, but Daddy Stroll is forcing him to stay in F1 and get paid millions of pounds a season. Poor guy.


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 8:47 am
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Stating the obvious but:

Why would any team with ambitions to win the constructors championship employ MV? To win that, you need two drivers able to get points every race. The last couple of years have shown that, for whatever reason, a car that MV can win in isn't easy to drive for anyone else.

I guess smaller teams who don't have the resources to employ drivers and designers capable of winning the constructors could focus on the drivers championship and employ MV, but why would a team like Ferrari or MB choose him?


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 11:49 am
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Posted by: richmars

Why would any team with ambitions to win the constructors championship employ MV?

Max isn't the cause of Red Bull's car woes, that's on the engineering team. If you put him in a McLaren, he'd be as fast, or faster than, Norris and Piastri. Their problem seems to be that they find stuff in the windtunnel and simulations that say the car should be faster. Then, when they put it on the car, it's very peaky and difficult to drive. Max manages to get the performance out of it, but nobody else can. Max doesn't like the car, he's been telling the engineers that they need to improve it but they just don't seem to know how to. The McLaren seems to be easy enough to drive that a rookie can get in and be competitive. Lawson and Tsunoda are both decent drivers but that Red Bull car made them both look hopeless. That's the engineers' fault, not Max's.


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 12:26 pm
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Posted by: thols2

Posted by: richmars

Why would any team with ambitions to win the constructors championship employ MV?

Max isn't the cause of Red Bull's car woes, that's on the engineering team. If you put him in a McLaren, he'd be as fast, or faster than, Norris and Piastri. Their problem seems to be that they find stuff in the windtunnel and simulations that say the car should be faster. Then, when they put it on the car, it's very peaky and difficult to drive. Max manages to get the performance out of it, but nobody else can. Max doesn't like the car, he's been telling the engineers that they need to improve it but they just don't seem to know how to. The McLaren seems to be easy enough to drive that a rookie can get in and be competitive. Lawson and Tsunoda are both decent drivers but that Red Bull car made them both look hopeless. That's the engineers' fault, not Max's.

 

Max Verstappen is quite possibly the greatest F1 driver ever. His ability to win against many odds, in a car that is nowhere near the best, puts him well above the vast majority of other world champions including Hamilton, imo. For me, the very best have been Senna, Vettel, Alonso and Verstappen. All drivers who could make an uncompetitive car competitive. Schumacher wasn't bad either, but Hamilton has never been able to get good results in a car that isn't competitive. And he was bested over a season by Max who had an inferior car. I think what we're seeing now with Hamilton, is just the reality that whilst he is no doubt a great driver, he really does need the best car to win in. And he's being routinely bettered by his team-mate now, so clear indication he's probably past it. He can still milk F1 for more money and publicity though, which is what he's doing with the F1 film. It's a bit sad to see him still trying to live off faded glories though. 

Verstappen is clearly resigned to the fact that McLaren are going to win. He's philosophical enough about that. He'll still fight of course, and he'll continue to put his car ten places above his team-mate, whoever that is. Let's face it; if Verstappen was in a McLaren this year, the WDC would already be over. 

 

 

 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 12:41 pm
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Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

Schumacher wasn't bad either, but Hamilton has never been able to get good results in a car that isn't competitive.

Well he had won at least one race in every season up to 2022 and some of those weren't the best cars - and this is the only season so far he hasn't had a podium finish (yet).  He's not got on with the current ground effect cars, but he's not on his own there.


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 12:54 pm
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I don't recall MV moaning about his car when he was winning the drivers WC, but the second driver in Red Bull (despite being 'reasonable' drivers) have been nowhere. It's obvious that MV has very clear ideas of what the car should drive like, and the engineers deliver that. Why wouldn't the same happen if he went to MB or Ferrari?


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:06 pm
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And he was bested over a season by Max who had an inferior car.

 

which year was that please?

 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:14 pm
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Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

For me, the very best have been Senna, Vettel, Alonso and Verstappen. All drivers who could make an uncompetitive car competitive. Schumacher wasn't bad either, but Hamilton has never been able to get good results in a car that isn't competitive.

Hamilton's rookie season was as teammate to double world champion Alonso. He matched him and Alonso completely lost his shit. He well and truly earned his place among the all-time greats. 

Vettel was brilliant in the blown diffuser cars but got thumped by Ricciardo and then LeClerc. Good, but not capable of lifting a second-rate car like the greats can do.

Schumacher won his first two titles in Bennetons that weren't as good as the Adrian Newey designed Williams. He then went to a Ferrari team that was struggling and was central to turning it into a dominant force. His ruthlessness left a dark mark on his legacy but he was stunningly good in his prime.


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:18 pm
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Posted by: richmars

I don't recall MV moaning about his car when he was winning the drivers WC, but the second driver in Red Bull (despite being 'reasonable' drivers) have been nowhere. It's obvious that MV has very clear ideas of what the car should drive like, and the engineers deliver that. Why wouldn't the same happen if he went to MB or Ferrari?

Max told them early last season that the car had fundamental problems and they needed to fix it. It took McLaren a few months to sort out their car, but once they did, the weaknesses of the Red Bull were exposed. If the McLaren had been sorted from the start, Lando would probably be defending world champion now. The Red Bull isn't that way because that's how Max likes it, it's because the engineers haven't figured out how to fix the problems. 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:26 pm
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Posted by: thols2

Max told them early last season that the car had fundamental problems and they needed to fix it.

And the three seasons before that?


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:45 pm
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Posted by: richmars

And the three seasons before that?

Perez generally looked like a decent no. 2 driver. Then, in 2024, he suddenly looked hopeless. This was in the car that Max warned the team that they needed to fix.


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:54 pm
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Posted by: thepurist

Max to shock everyone and go to Cadillac to build the team around him. Fred gets the boot from Ferrari and Horner jumps ship to replace him. Hamilton leaves Ferrari to replace Stroll at Aston, Newey comes up with the class of the field again but the Lewis/Alonso grudge match reignites and hands the title to Alex Albon in a massively improved Williams.

That would be excellent 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 1:56 pm
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Posted by: thols2

Posted by: richmars

Why would any team with ambitions to win the constructors championship employ MV?

Max isn't the cause of Red Bull's car woes, that's on the engineering team. If you put him in a McLaren, he'd be as fast, or faster than, Norris and Piastri. Their problem seems to be that they find stuff in the windtunnel and simulations that say the car should be faster. Then, when they put it on the car, it's very peaky and difficult to drive. Max manages to get the performance out of it, but nobody else can. Max doesn't like the car, he's been telling the engineers that they need to improve it but they just don't seem to know how to. The McLaren seems to be easy enough to drive that a rookie can get in and be competitive. Lawson and Tsunoda are both decent drivers but that Red Bull car made them both look hopeless. That's the engineers' fault, not Max's.

There are two sets of problems with the car.  

1 - it is highly attuned to Max's driving preferences, it is very very sharp and responsive to the point it feels unnatural to other drivers.

2 - it has problems with aero and suspension, making it unpredictable and hard on the tyres.  Ferrari and others are also fighting this problem.

 

Recent update statements from RB have specifically mentioned improving 'flow stability' - that is ensuring airflow follows the surfaces it's supposed to and doesn't suddenly detach under certain yaw/ride height conditions giving random instability.  This is helping towards #2 and makes the car faster for both drivers.  

To help the second driver with #1 you need to compromise with making the car less biased towards Max's favoured setup. I've seen nothing to suggest Red Bull will do this because it will likely slow down Max. They certainly didn't for any of the previous number 2 drivers going as far back as my usernamesake. 🙂

 

 

 


 
Posted : 01/07/2025 2:25 pm
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Sky Sport Italia are apparently claiming that Max has agreed to join Mercedes but the board haven't yet signed it off


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 11:37 am
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Posted by: Twodogs

Sky Sport Italia are apparently claiming that Max has agreed to join Mercedes but the board haven't yet signed it off

George to RB then? Or Aston if Stroll retires due to being a miserable git his hand troubles?  Guess also Cadillac an option. 

 

 


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 11:56 am
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Max has probably just seen the latest dyno figures for the new Ford engine! 🤣

I think the only realistic option for Russell is a seat swap with Max.

Aston won't open the door for him like they would for Max.

And I doubt Cadillac would want that level of salary and scrutiny. Far better for them to have Checo and/or Bottas.


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 12:11 pm
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Definitely Russell out? Would make an interesting pairing with Max if Antonelli goes instead...


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 12:36 pm
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Gotta feel sorry for Antonelli if Max does go there....he'll have a heck of a job on his hands


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 12:39 pm
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Posted by: andrewh

Definitely Russell out?

Russell hasn't got a Mercedes contract for 2026.


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 12:43 pm
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Posted by: the-muffin-man

Posted by: andrewh

Definitely Russell out?

Russell hasn't got a Mercedes contract for 2026.

I think Antonelli was on a 1+option contract, TBH I just assumed Toto would be keeping him, the way he's been talking him up.

 


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 12:49 pm
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I've just seen the film.

Really well filmed. Lots of rules being broken but good fun.

How ridiculous is the plot? It's a bit far fetched but then far fetched stuff does happen. 1982 really happened. Monaco 1996 really happened. Monza  2008 really happened. The whole of 2009 really happened. Canada 2011 really happened.Spain 2012 really happened. Abu Dhabi 2021 really happened. All totally implausible but real, so we can let the film get away with some unlikely plot lines I think.

The crash, or one of them, looks unlikely but have a look at Alex Peroni's big one in 2019.

Obviously not a documentary, or even that accurate, but it's a lot of fun. Implausible but not impossible.


 
Posted : 02/07/2025 11:33 pm
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Posted by: the-muffin-man

Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

Schumacher wasn't bad either, but Hamilton has never been able to get good results in a car that isn't competitive.

Well he had won at least one race in every season up to 2022 and some of those weren't the best cars - and this is the only season so far he hasn't had a podium finish (yet).  He's not got on with the current ground effect cars, but he's not on his own there.

He won races when his car was working on that particular track, for him.When his car isn't 100%, he struggles. A lot. No denying his skill, he's a great driver. Just not one of the true greats imo. 

 

Hamilton's rookie season was as teammate to double world champion Alonso. He matched him and Alonso completely lost his shit. He well and truly earned his place among the all-time greats. 

Alonso was consistently quicker than Hamilton, until Ron Dennis decided to renege on the agreement he's made with Alonso to be No.1 driver. Then Hamilton got quicker (he gained experience very quickly, no question, but he had help). Then Spygate, and Dennis clearly favouring his protegé Hamilton in the team. Alonso would easily have won the WDC that year if it wasn't for Ron Dennis' ego. Hamilton was fast, but not yet good enough to win the WDC. Which is why Kimi Raikkonen, hardly the greatest driver ever, won it. 

Vettel was brilliant in the blown diffuser cars but got thumped by Ricciardo and then LeClerc. Good, but not capable of lifting a second-rate car like the greats can do.

Vettel had been very quick in the Toro Rosso, even winning a race in it. He'd shown a lot of promise in a very inferior car. He then became a WDC contender in his first year at Red Bull. He blew his team mate Webber away race after race. in fairness, Webber was never a WDC driver. At the end of his Red Bull stint, Vettel seemed to lose interest. Ricciardo isn't that good. But I will agree that LeClerc is an excellent driver; he did a lot better in a crap Ferrari than Vettel did. 

Schumacher won his first two titles in Bennetons that weren't as good as the Adrian Newey designed Williams. He then went to a Ferrari team that was struggling and was central to turning it into a dominant force. His ruthlessness left a dark mark on his legacy but he was stunningly good in his prime.

Yeah, perhaps I could swap Vettel for Shuey, not sure. In fairness, Senna was tragically killed early on that season, so we'll never know how Shuey would have faired against him directly. Williams did then only have Damon Hill, Coulthard and a past-it Nigel Mansell in the car afterwards though. You can't say any of those were anywhere near Senna. Plus Shuey had a two-race ban that season, so you can't really say the Williams was so much better. But yeah point taken. 

which year was that please?

This one's easy. The year Mercedes had the best car but Max won his first WDC. 

 


 
Posted : 03/07/2025 2:35 pm
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Dude, I think you're overthinking it. Senna and Prost got paid record salaries to drive the best car because they were the best drivers of their generation. Same with Schumacher. Same with Alonso. Same with Hamilton. And Vettel. And Verstappen. They're all among the greats and the Hamilton vs Verstappen fight was one of the all time greatest championships. Button, Webber, Massa, Rosberg, Ricciardo etc. were all excellent drivers who were good enough to win a title if things went their way, but they just weren't quite at that elite level.


 
Posted : 03/07/2025 2:55 pm
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which year was that please?

This one's easy. The year Mercedes had the best car but Max won his first WDC. 

 

2021? Is that the year MV was gifted his first WDC win by Masi misapplying the rules in the final couple of laps and so illegally helping him to win?

 


 
Posted : 03/07/2025 3:10 pm
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Talk of rain for Silverstone race, but I can't see Lewis doing well, when he's struggling with Ferrari brakes.

Would be nuts if Toto really is contemplating signing Max for Mercedes.


 
Posted : 03/07/2025 4:09 pm
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Pretty interesting view on Hamilton not being "one of the true greats" there. Matched or beat a 2x WDC in his rookie season, first driver to score a podium in his first three races, most wins in his debut season, 7 x wdc, most races led, most front row starts, it goes on and on. 


 
Posted : 03/07/2025 7:42 pm
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In my eyes Alonso is one of the biggest failures in F1 - so much potential early on then pretty much nothing and couldn’t even get past Petrov to claim a third title. Then his ego gets in the way of him making sensible team decisions.

And now he’s killing time wasting a seat.


 
Posted : 03/07/2025 7:48 pm
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In my eyes Alonso is one of the biggest failures in F1

Seriously? 


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 12:52 am
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Yes - from what he could have achieved to what he has achieved.

I’m not talking Latifi/Sargeant type failure here where there was no promise to start with.


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 5:34 am
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Alsonso definitely made some bad decisions, but he ended Schumacher's reign driving a car that wasn't exceptional. He dragged the dog of a car that Ferrari gave him in 2012(?) to a serious challenge for another title. He's still driving exceptionally well. His lack of titles is down to driving some terrible cars, not any lack of ability on his part. Pretty harsh to call him a failure.


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 5:55 am
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Posted by: thols2

Alsonso definitely made some bad decisions, but he ended Schumacher's reign driving a car that wasn't exceptional. He dragged the dog of a car that Ferrari gave him in 2012(?) to a serious challenge for another title. He's still driving exceptionally well. His lack of titles is down to driving some terrible cars, not any lack of ability on his part. Pretty harsh to call him a failure.

If the job of an F1 driver is making sure you're in a position to get offered seats in the top teams, then yes, he's a massive failure.


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 7:20 am
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Posted by: Twodogs
If the job of an F1 driver is making sure you're in a position to get offered seats in the top teams, then yes, he's a massive failure.

That's partly down to him having a reputation of being difficult to manage, though that seems to have changed at Aston. Another factor in which team he drives for is his management being able to approach and discuss terms with other teams and I can see Flav being difficult to deal with as well.


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 7:26 am
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Posted by: pondo

In my eyes Alonso is one of the biggest failures in F1

For Alonso, he probably meant, 'failure to reach full potential' rather than failure per se. A double world champion in any other context would not be considered a failure. What he's failed to do, is win more.

 


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 8:16 am
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Posted by: boblo

What he's failed to do, is win more.

In which case all world champions have been failures. After they won their final title, they failed to win more.


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 8:26 am
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Posted by: thols2

Posted by: boblo

What he's failed to do, is win more.

In which case all world champions have been failures. After they won their final title, they failed to win more.

If you say so 🙃

It's fairly well accepted that Alonso is one of the very best and has (had) tremendous potential. Comparable to one hit wonders Hill? Villeneuve? Rosberg? Probably not.

 


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 8:31 am
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He won races when his car was working on that particular track, forhim.Whenhis car isn't 100%, he struggles. A lot. No denying his skill, he's a great driver. Just not one of the true greats imo. 

This comes up a lot WRT Hamilton, but you've got to place it in context.  When LH isn't getting on with a car (like now) he's a couple of 10ths slower than someone who is - Leclerc, but once LH gels with the car, he's on another level.  Look at 2016. at the start of the season, he wasn't getting on with the car and was narrowly losing to NR, but once he got it, he destroyed NR in the latter part of the season.  Same in 2017/18 with SV.  Heck even with Russel in the last seasons - on the days when the car performed for him, LH was like a bloodhound on the track.   


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 9:34 am
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Don't forget CH4 have live coverage for Silverstone this weekend, including FP1 that started ~25mins ago.


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 11:54 am
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Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

Just not one of the true greats imo. 

Any particular reasons, or just the usual contrarism? As it's Silverstone this weekend, it's probs apposite to reflect on the fact that Hamilton has won more times at Silverstone alone (9), than either Leclerc (8), Norris (7) or Piastri (7) have in total in their careers to date...


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 12:26 pm
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Max slower in FP1 than both Hadjar and Lawson - maybe they should stick him in the junior team to help his title chances 🙂


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 12:32 pm
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Don't forget CH4 have live coverage for Silverstone this weekend, including FP1 that started ~25mins ago.

Didn't know that, thanks for the heads-up! 🙂 


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 1:05 pm
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Posted by: thepurist

Max slower in FP1 than both Hadjar and Lawson - maybe they should stick him in the junior team to help his title chances 🙂

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 

Think Max wants to fall behind the top 4 so he can get out of his contract


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 2:37 pm
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Reminds me of that thought experiment - a cat will always land on it's feet. Toast will always land butter side down. What would happen if you tied a slice of toast butter side up to a cat's back?

Lewis always pulls something special out of the bag at Silverstone. Ferrari can always be relied upon to **** up. Which one will prevail?


 
Posted : 04/07/2025 11:56 pm
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Posted by: nickc

Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

Just not one of the true greats imo. 

Any particular reasons, or just the usual contrarism?

No 'contrarianism' at all. Just my own honest opinion. Hamilton is a great driver, no question. His achievements cannot be diminished in any way. But the fact is that whilst he is great in a great car, he's good in a good car, but not so good in a poor car. Whereas Senna, Alonso and Verstappen are great in a great car, great in a good car, and still great in a poor car. That, for me, is the difference. I place Hamilton well in the league of great drivers, but for me he's in the group with Prost, Piquet, Mansell, Haakinen and on reflection, possibly Vettel. Below them are drivers like Hill, Button, Villeneuve, both Rosbergs and Raikkonen. Drivers who were all very good, but did need that bit of luck to win. Then you have your good Number 2s; Bottas, Massa, Webber, Coulthard and Barrichello. As for the current crop; LeClerc does look very good indeed, but has yet to prove himself great in spite of being consistently faster than a seven-time WC. Norris is very fast on his day, but flawed, and is being quietly outdone by his much less experienced teammate. Piastri has shown signs of being a great driver. Russell is another Jensen Button imo, but could prove to be WDC standard. Antonelli has much to learn, but is veery quick. Hadjar though is the standout so far for me; consistently quick in an average car, has gone very much under the radar, but it would be interesting to see him in a fast car. I think there'a a handful of current drivers who you could put in a McLaren and they'd be as quick as Norris and Piastri. Verstappen, though, would be quicker still. 

 


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 11:21 am
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Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

Hamilton is a great driver, no question. His achievements cannot be diminished in any way. But...

The use of "but" negates what came before. You are saying his achievements are diminished in your eyes.


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 11:26 am
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Posted by: thols2

Posted by: Hanchenkuchen

Hamilton is a great driver, no question. His achievements cannot be diminished in any way. But...

The use of "but" negates what came before. You are saying his achievements are diminished in your eyes.

No; I'm just not elevating him to a status others might. Your selective editing removes the context of what I was actually saying. 

"But the fact is that whilst he is great in a great car, he's good in a good car, but not so good in a poor car. Whereas Senna, Alonso and Verstappen are great in a great car, great in a good car, and still great in a poor car. That, for me, is the difference."


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 12:31 pm
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Well that was entertaining and unexpected. Looks like all the other contenders made some sort of small error on their last laps and max was the only one that got a clean lap in. Long run pace didn't look so good for the RB vs McLaren and Ferrari but he'll be quicker down the straights so DRS won't necessarily help that much. Maybe we'll get to see Hamilton having another go at Max into Copse.


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 3:24 pm
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That was one heck of a qualifier!


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 3:24 pm
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Did not see that coming. Should be a great race.


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 3:27 pm
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Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 5:28 pm
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Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!

And they've not even got the race director on the payroll anymore!

Great lap by Max in a car that looked a right handful even for him, Yuki had no chance!


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 5:32 pm
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Posted by: shermer75

Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!

TBF it's not that Red Bull snatch it out of the bag. It's Max. 


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 7:10 pm
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Well Max and the team back at the factory who analyse everything from Friday, run different scenarios in the sim overnight then feed back to the team on Saturday so they can give Max a slightly better car to drive the wheels off.


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 8:04 pm
 Bez
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Posted by: andrewh

 

Lewis always pulls something special out of the bag at Silverstone. Ferrari can always be relied upon to **** up. Which one will prevail?

When they only fuelled him for one lap at the end of Q1 I was more than a little concerned that you’d have your answer 😳 Bonkers decision.

Popcorn at the ready for tomorrow.

 


 
Posted : 05/07/2025 8:11 pm
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Posted by: rOcKeTdOg

Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!

Mercedes used to do that too back when they were dominant. They'd look pretty average on Friday just gathering data, then they'd run simulations overnight and Hamilton would nail pole on Saturday.

Mark Hughes has an article about the Red Bull. Part of it was that they got lucky with the wind direction, but Max just did a fantastic job.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-why-verstappen-british-gp-qualifyig-gamble-paid-off/

 


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 12:59 am
 Bez
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It was an inspired setup and drive for pole. But the forecast for today has the wind moving to a northwesterly, which is a crosswind, maybe even slight tailwind, across Maggots/Becketts and Stowe. So it may turn out to compromise his race: I’d expect him to suffer worse deg than the others at the very least. Should be interesting; personally I think four cars are in with a shout of the win and if the weather forecast is true to form I don’t think Max is one of them.


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 6:59 am
 a11y
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HOOOOOOOOOOLKINBURG 😎 😎 😎 


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 3:44 pm
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Thrilled for Hulkenberg to finally get a podium. Shaping up to be a great battle between the McLarens.


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 3:48 pm
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Someone said this earlier “Max Verstappen is quite possibly the greatest F1 driver ever” didn’t they 😉

Harsh penalty on Pastry though


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 3:57 pm
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Thought it was ungracious of Piastri not to congratulate Norris in the interview.

Also, was he really asking the team to swap positions to correct his error? (even if the penalty was v harsh)


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 3:59 pm
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Enjoyed that! 🙂 


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 4:12 pm
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Posted by: futonrivercrossing

Someone said this earlier “Max Verstappen is quite possibly the greatest F1 driver ever” didn’t they 😉

Harsh penalty on Pastry though

Yeah that was me. And I stand by it, because he quite possibly is. Definitely the best F1 driver right now, by some margin. As I also said; if he were in a McLaren, the WDC would already be over. Just facts.  

Good race that. The weather mixed things up nicely, wasn't at all boring! Red Bull gambled on it being dry; the low downforce set up really helped in dry conditions, as we saw at the start, as Piastri couldn't quite close up on Max. But then as soon as it got slippery, the Red Bull was useless. That Max managed to drag it to 5th after his spin, when poor Yuki came dead last, shows just what a truly great driver he is. It's an absolute dog of a car, and how Max is still 3rd in the drivers standings is just incredible really. 

TBF it's not that Red Bull snatch it out of the bag. It's Max. 

Exactly. I think even the most partisan antiMaxxers have to accept he is a simply brilliant driver. 

Hamilton had a good race for once; Ferrari only managed to wreck Charles' race today. Lando was gifted the win by his team mate; I think that's a 14-point swing in Lando's favour today. Imo Piastri is the better racing driver , but he is still relatively young and needs to iron out a few creases in his game. Looked like a cunning move to slow right down, the kind of thing Senna or Schumacher were notorious for, but it backfired this time. The penalty was reasonable; he can't have any complaints. I think if Lando doesn't nail the WDC this year, he may well never get another chance. If Piastri beats him, his chances of securing good drives in the future will be effectively over. Piastri however seems to have a true racer's instinct, and no fear. That's the difference between them. It's going to be interesting to see if a proper rivalry develops, Senna V Prost style. Personally I think Norris may well bottle it though. 

 


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 4:28 pm
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That was a fantastic race. Really enjoyed it. Made up for Hulkenburg, too!


 
Posted : 06/07/2025 4:42 pm
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