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I don’t follow the theory some of the above are suggesting that someone in the Verstappen camp is (partially, at least) trying to oust Horner. To what end? MV recently signed a long term deal and comfortably trounced the entire field last year…
Why would anyone in that position want to rock the boat so severely? 🤷
I didnt think it made much sense at first, then i saw who was in the frame and reasonable isn't a word you'd use to describe them.
"Why would anyone in that position want to rock the boat so severely? 🤷"
This does make total sense, but also it won't be the first time that someone greedy has done something stupid
Karen leaving work this evening!…
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Why is Sainz played by Sean Connery lol
Now back to Karen...! 🙂
My new theory is this - the delay isn't whether he's done anything wrong or it. It's actually Horner's lawyers fighting RBF1's lawyers.
If he's found guilty of gross misconduct he could easily by let go immediately, contract wripped up and without any severance pay. He could be fighting for millions in severance, not to keep his job.
IANAL - this is pure speculation!
Lolipopman is back
The detail in that is great! 👍
My theory is that the decision has already been made, Horner may already be sat at home making new plans for the rest of the year, but RedBull are timing the news release so (they hope) it immediately disappears amongst the press whirlwind surrounding the first race.
Thepurist +1. If he was clear they would have announced immediately, they are using 24-48hrs to reorganise the F1 team for the season… …is my own speculation.
I'm not convinced....i think that if they thought it was that serious they'd have suspended him pending the result, not have him turn up for the launch and testing.
I'd love to be wrong tho....him and Lawrence Stroll both seem odious to me
[i]i think that if they thought it was that serious they’d have suspended him pending the result, not have him turn up for the launch and testing.[/]
That approach is only an idea put forward by the opposition / critics of the person being accused of something. You hear it a lot in politics with politicians being shouted at to stand down pending the enquiry into their affairs. In reality the enquiry is there to delay any decisions long enough for the public to lose interest so the whole matter can be quietly ignored.
A less jaded view is that the person is innocent until proven guilty so why should their life be adversely affected by so random accusation before any proper evaluation of the evidence and facts.
I did chuckle at the Drive To Survive episode where the Horners’ personal Santa turns up, nods at Christian and asks, “has he been a good boy this year?”—then a beat before anyone replies 😂
I wonder if that was a late edit—presumably also the end of the Mercedes episode which is signed off by Lewis saying “I can’t see myself ever being anywhere other than Mercedes”.
I just watched ep 1 of DTS, every time a woman wearing the Red Bull team uniform appeared I just couldn't stop from wondering, "Was it you he sent his dick pics to?"
My theory is that it’s more about how they take the right action without upsetting the likes of ford and other sponsors and potentially loosing Newey. I imagine ford and others would not be happy if he left and left them looking for a new chief deisnger.
Maybe they are just counting out the hush money to make it go away?
I don't think Christian will be going anywhere. There may be disciplinary action and training, possibly even some change in leadership roles (an additional person to facilitate better decision making/supervising), but I genuinely can't imagine that what he's done will warrant summary dismissal.
change in leadership roles
No wimmins in immediate vicinity of Horner? Rubbish. If there is a mysoginistic, bullying or sexual misdemeanour the message needs to be strong and that’s clear from Fords statement. Horner will need to be offered a punishment for everyone to be aware of.
Unless of course a payoff happens, in which case we can expect it to rumble into the future as leaks happen, they’ll be a lot of pressure to not sign an NDA against the victims integrity.
my bet (based on a deep cynicism for how rich and powerful men are protected by other rich and powerful ment):
he stays as team principal, but....
RBHQ parachute in some goon to replace him as chief exec.
leaves end of season/contract and waltzes off into the sunset driving a dumpertruck full of money (with ginger spice swimming in it). Newey leaves too and spends more time with his new yacht
A less jaded view is that the person is innocent until proven guilty so why should their life be adversely affected by so random accusation before any proper evaluation of the evidence and facts.
It cuts both ways though. If both are still employed, it's not unreasonable where the matter is of this level of seriousness and there's (on the face of it) some credible evidence to back-up the claim for the accused to be suspended while the investigation goes ahead. If the seniority of the accused and accuser are wildly different, then removing the more senior from the business so there can be no influence on the more junior member of staff is a wise move. I can see why sponsors are looking at the situation RB have now created (Horner at testing pretending everything is fine) and are not massively impressed.
Maybe they are just counting out the hush money to make it go away?
I think the days of forcing female staff-members who've accused their bosses of inappropriate behaviour to sign NDA and have piles of cash pushed at them to go away, are thankfully past us.
I think the days of forcing
femalestaff-members who’ve accused their bosses of inappropriate behaviour to sign NDA and have piles of cash pushed at them to go away, are thankfully past us.
Wasn't the figure of £650,000 mentioned somewhere above in this thread?
@Rich_s, no I specifically meant female members of staff who's boss's have made unwelcome advances. While I've no doubt that this does apply to male members of staff, it's been a tactic overwhelmingly applied to more junior female staff members by their overwhelmingly male senior colleagues in an effort to protect themselves who then get to carry on in-post as if nothing has happened.
If that's what's going on at RB, it would be very disappointing
I think the days of forcing female staff-members who’ve accused their bosses of inappropriate behaviour to sign NDA and have piles of cash pushed at them to go away, are thankfully past us.
If they take the cash and sign an NDA, you'll never know about it so it's impossible to know how common it is.
Wasn’t the figure of £650,000 mentioned somewhere above in this thread?
There was something about it in the machine translated Dutch article but it wasn't clear to me...could have meant Horner's lawyers offered her a bung to keep quiet, but not sure
If they take the cash and sign an NDA, you’ll never know about it so it’s impossible to know how common it is.
If the whole paddock really does know what’s going on then it’ll come out sooner or later via a different channel
It was thought the practice was significant enough that Parliament discussed their use as part of a debate on sexual harassment
More than 70 women accused Harvey Weinstein of abuse, I've no idea how many NDA there are floating around out there, but its not nil and he's just one man.
This is full on mucking fental....
As they said - shame that last lap wasn't a dry one - but then it was also a great way to see how the aerodynamics affect the spray pattern.
Shows how many slips and slides the car does in the wet that you just wouldn't normally see. The car was really squirming for grip.
PlanetF1 says the decision that Horner is staying won't be announced until Thursday*
* i may be paraphrasing 😁
I did some searching/stalking yesterday and found the private jet Horner uses a lot or potentially owns. It was at Farnborough airport and had been for a few days as thats where its based. It has departed this morning at 8.14 and it is currently heading over France...
You know that's only just *this* side of pretty weird, right?
The meeting was said to be in Austria - so timeline fits! 🙂
That is some next level stalking.....sorry, I mean "research" 😂
According to Twitter he's on his way to Bahrain...if true then he's been cleared i guess?
If you worked for Red Bull, and had a serious complaint about Horner or any of the other "important employees" why would you expect a fair hearing ?
Slater explained on Sky Sports News: “What I can reveal is that Christian Horner is on a plane and is flying over to Bahrain now. He’s on his way here. What I can also tell you and I know this for a fact he doesn’t know the outcome of this investigation into allegations of inappropriate behaviour made by Horner, by a female member of staff.
“He’s come here without knowing how this has been resolved one way or the other. It’s I suppose a continuation of him saying ‘business as usual’ that he denies the allegations and he wants to continue with his job.
“He should arrive here this evening. Will we get an outcome this evening? I have been reporting consistently that my understanding was we would get something before the start of the season.”
It’s I suppose a continuation of him saying ‘business as usual’ that he denies the allegations and he wants to continue with his job.
Money for the flight isn’t an issue for Horner and he’ll have been advise to assume innocence. So yeah, it’s BAU from him until he’s told otherwise.
The aircraft has left Graz after picking up Marko I assume and is now on the way to Bahrain.
there's someone else on Twitter stalking him like that...or maybe it's you 🙂
Have we done the Toto and George love-in?? 🙂
Not sure how often you all stay at your bosses house, but it seems George was staying over when Lewis went to tell Toto about his move to Ferrari. Bearing in mind Toto thought this was going to be a box-ticking re-signing meeting why was George there anyway?
Lewis is so going to be shut out of every important meeting this season! 🙂
"Lewis is so going to be shut out of every important meeting this season! 🙂"
Definitely. I was trying to think of other times when a driver starts a season having already sighed to another team. I can't think of any!
I'm not so sure, any points that Hamilton gets are constructor's point for the team, its not in their interests to hold him back, Russel, for all that he's a very fast driver is nothing like as good as Hamilton. He's still their best chance of a win Besides, I think Mercedes have probably already privately accepted that Ferrari have stolen a march on them for '24. There's probs. little that Hamilton can tell Ferrari in a years time that will make any noticeable difference
RickDraper
The aircraft has left Graz after picking up Marko I assume and is now on the way to Bahrain.
Is it gonna be like Reacher Series 2, where Marko just chucks him out of the plane like a supervillain!?
Alonso signed for someone and still raced another year for someone else....Benetton to McLaren?
Personally i find it hard to believe that RB would be so incompetent/ruthless to let Horner go to Bahrain and then sack him by phone....
Perhaps the email they sent went to his Junk folder....
It was Renault to McLaren for Alsonso, he signed for McLaren between 2005 and 2006, but still won the title in 2006 for Renault before he moved
So you were close with Benneton, you just forgot what they were called that week🤣
Anyone know when Russell knew he was replacing Bottas? It kept getting talked about, he had been promised the seat, but when was it made official?
Yeah I sort of suspected it wasn't Benetton but didn't have the energy to google it 😂
nickcRussel, for all that he’s a very fast driver is nothing like as good as Hamilton. He’s still their best chance of a win
My gut feel is that he sits at the top table with verstappen, alonso, hamilton, and probably norris and leclerc. Hard to say since he's not been in a front running car over a season.
I think though if you put any of those against each other in last years red bull or the merc w11, they'd be very close.
Loadsnof tweets along these lines..no idea of their veracity
"LATEST: Christian Horner is set to be cleared of inappropriate behavour later today.
Based on information from @thetimes and @KymIllman this will be confirmed around 5pm UK time. How it affects his place in the team (if at all) is not clear.
We will update when availablel
Hamiltons interviewed to the subtle point that the outcome must equate to fairness and equality in the sport.
Ok then….
I think though if you put any of those against each other in last years red bull or the merc w11, they’d be very close.
There was a race last year (I want to say Brazil, but I don't think it was) where Russell was a place ahead, and Hamilton was jonesing to get the team to let him past, when they did (let Hamilton through) he put something like about a second and a half on Russel in a lap and bit after his tyres had had laps and laps of being in Russell's dirty air. Even during the race Russell was questioning it, asking if Hamilton had access to special engine settings. At the driver media round a very sheepish Russell was saying "I guess that's why he's a seven times world champion.."
I think he's a very very fast driver, but they all are. I think Hamilton and Verstappen, and maybe Alonso are in a class of their own
Russell - he might be qualified to serve the top table, I wouldn't seat him at it yet! 🙂
It'll be interesting to see if Ford and F1 consider the process to be transparent. I imagine they'll say that to protect the privacy of the people involved blah blah blah
Nothing to see here: Red Bull GmbH said: “The independent investigation into the allegations made against Mr Horner is complete, and Red Bull can confirm that the grievance has been dismissed. The complainant has a right of appeal. Red Bull is confident that the investigation has been fair, rigorous and impartial. The investigation report is confidential and contains the private information of the parties and third parties who assisted in the investigation, and therefore we will not be commenting further out of respect for all concerned. Red Bull will continue striving to meet the highest workplace standards.”
"Anyone know when Russell knew he was replacing Bottas? It kept getting talked about, he had been promised the seat, but when was it made official?"
2020 wasn't it, Russell stood in for Hamilton due to Covid, and he trounced Bottas in both races.
the-muffin-man
Full MemberRussell – he might be qualified to serve the top table, I wouldn’t seat him at it yet! 🙂
Not like Hamilton hasn't also had the odd moment... 😉
Nothing to see here:
Everyone is going to interpret this according to their own preconceptions. For me, as much as I dislike Horner & I understand the influence a powerful man can have in an organisation, I think I will take it on face value. Would Red Bull sweep it under the carpet with all the sponsors/commercial partners looking on? Especially since it has been framed as a power struggle within RB, if there was a case to answer I get the impression Horner's enemies within the company would take full advantage.
Surprised? A bit to be honest!
Why is that? you obviously have the full facts at your disposal. Please share them then.
@bruneep fair comment! Just an opinion based purely on media speculation! From what journalists seemed to be saying about the an allegations that apparently everyone in the paddock knew, it appeared a strong case. But that was wrong…
I hope someone asks, on live TV, ‘How’s your week been?’
Not like Hamilton hasn’t also had the odd moment… 😉
Difference between a great and a numpty - Hamilton puts the other guy in the wall, not himself!! 🙂 😜
Leaked report incoming in 5..4..3..2...
Can anyone check if brown envelopes full of hush-hush money are counted in the cost cap?
Meh, where’s there’s smokes there’s fire. The allegation was made with legal advice so someone thought it was real at one point.
Anyway, moving on…
The allegation was made with legal advice
No Win No Fee?
Karen's smugness level this weekend!... 😱
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I agree we have to take it at face value, but also agree somewhat with "there's no smoke etc".
I suspect it will never go away and will always follow him around....and more details will eventually leak out
Meh, where’s there’s smokes there’s fire.
What allegation and rumour should we start circulating about you?
What allegation and rumour should we start circulating about you?
both his dogs are Bichon Frise, one called Tibbert the other, Flaps
Kinda not seeing the transparency that's been called for. Wonder if there'll be an appeal?
What allegation and rumour should we start circulating about you?
Its all there in the annals of STW, feel free to regurgitate, you won't shock anyone who's been regular here for a while.