[Closed] Forget the great resignation, it's all about having two FT jobs.....

Yep, my 2nd job is reading internet forums. The pay is awful.

Well, MPs seems to be able to hold down several jobs....

Dunno about others but id be in breach of contract for not telling my employer.

Surely doing it without telling would be instant dismissal even more so if it was related industry.

In the UK payroll at your new employer would know when they want you P45 from last job your old employer would see earnings from employment already on file for your PAYE tax .....

surely only works as a contractor in which case its a bit of a non event as long as the work is done .

I’ve had a couple of my team do this, was an open secret. Management were to weak to do anything about it.
One of the guys was that brazen, when he had to come into the office he would have two laptops, our companies plus his other jobs. He would be on calls throughout the day for his other job.
The other guys were a lot less obvious, but it was clear they were moonlighting. Very rarely turned up for any on-site meetings had very little interaction with the larger team. Had no evidence of these guys moonlighting initially, I just put it down to work shy. When the project completed (2 years later) they came out with the truth. They’d been working as a team for another client. Back in 2012 this was. I wouldn’t have minded if they had of been delivering within their role with us, but they just caused conflict. Avoiding responsibility to ensure they could do their other job.

I have a clause in my employment contract that forbids working in n the same field for competitors. Instant dismissal if breached. I also have an internal conflict of interest register. Talking to government officials is, naturally, on that list.

The selling “food supplements” based on yet to be approved medicines is also met with suitable opprobrium.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/gsk-orders-sirtris-execs-to-stop-selling-resveratrol

We used to regularly have our Nigerian colleauges work for us and a competitor at the same time. Some of them were stupid enough to do it front of the expat managers which meant they got fired.

Are we talking 'side gigs' e.g. small online business, private training / tutoring / consultancy work after-hours, or full-blown 2 contracts for 2 full time jobs?

If the latter, how the heck do people manage the hours, more so if you have a family?

I don't know about the rest of you but I aim to work less, not more. Having 2 jobs with 2 lots of stress and deadlines isn't for me. Shirley it puts you in a much higher tax bracket so you'd be lucky to see half your wage?

making $340K a year?! what do you think I am a Russian Oligarch Mafia Boss Conservative MP?

Are we talking ‘side gigs’ e.g. small online business, private training / tutoring / consultancy work after-hours, or full-blown 2 contracts for 2 full time jobs?

Nope 2 full time jobs.

Frankly, its stressful enough pretending to do one job without me pretending to do another

I think a lot of this is tech sector. Workload can be very patchy, with huge peaks and troughs. 80% of the time I think I could do this comfortably. The other 20% when the pressure is on, no way. Just hope the 2 20%s never happen at the same time, not a risk I would like to take.

Are we talking ‘side gigs’ e.g. small online business, private training / tutoring / consultancy work after-hours, or full-blown 2 contracts for 2 full time jobs?

If the latter, how the heck do people manage the hours, more so if you have a family?

Remote IT support where you don't do much.

To be fair I could probably manage it as a lot of what I do is developing stuff to be used in the future, so no one would notice short term if I didn't do much...

I could do this. IT project manager on a contract. Have huge gaps in my day.

I think to do it you have to accept you could get fired from both jobs at any point. But if you're Ok with that risk (as many younger people are) and can easily pick up a new job (i.e. remote IT work) then it's probably worth it.

Relatively small world in my speciality though, I think you could easily run out of employers...

Yeah its pretty brazen to do it if your contract forbids it. Not really good faith.

Whats the worst that can happen though? Get fired?

You'd be unlucky to get fired from BOTH jobs at the same time, especially if you are meeting the requirements of your line manager.

As said, its often an open secret.

RE: tax, do you not just put anything in the higher rate band into your pension, thus avoiding any paying extra tax?

RE: tax, do you not just put anything in the higher rate band into your pension, thus avoiding any paying extra tax?

Well the article is about the US, so no idea about their tax. In the UK you can put up to £40k/year into tax (plus carry forward from 3 previous years). Unless you earn over £200k (IIRC).

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-your-private-pension/annual-allowance

Although putting £40k a year into your pension, it won't be long before you hit the lifetime allowance (with a bit of stock market growth etc).

Would be fun if both companies you were working for merged

I wish i could survive on one job, unfortunately i've had to do two jobs for the last 8 years to keep my head above water☹

I used to like my free time.

Pretty sure one of my partner's staff is doing this - works as a software tester via an agency. Their productivity is next to zero.

They're getting fired, but it won't matter because the agency will place elsewhere and most likely carry on.

I had a couple of team members (contractors) who we suspected of doing this a couple of months ago. I've been in positions where it would have been easy to do, but when it unravels it's going to affect security checks and could royally screw up any future contract work.
These chancers used variations on their name and would appear on calls with other logins - multiple logins for teams / slack / digital accounts etc. They didn't even have the sense to use one machine per gig. Madness.
Factor in that these were contractors on £600+ per day per gig and it's hard to look beyond pure greed as the motive.

Factor in that these were contractors on £600+ per day per gig and it’s hard to look beyond pure greed as the motive.

I had a friend (well ex, but that's another story), who resigned from his job as an engineer then "worked" huge over time hours during his notice period to finish his project. Well, what he actually did was read Biggles books and submitted his report on the last day which was 200 random pages of garbage with the correct title and contents sheet.

Basically fraud, theft, greed etc.

RE: tax, do you not just put anything in the higher rate band into your pension, thus avoiding any paying extra tax?

It's not about the paying of tax is that your alternative PAYE employment will show up at payroll level within the company.

I've worked two or three jobs before in alternative industries and I was always asked to clarify at first payroll run so that the correct tax was paid.

I had a friend (well ex, but that’s another story), who resigned from his job as an engineer then “worked” huge over time hours during his notice period to finish his project. Well, what he actually did was read Biggles books and submitted his report on the last day which was 200 random pages of garbage with the correct title and contents sheet.

Basically fraud, theft, greed etc.

We hired a contractor a few years ago who basically did this - we gave her a few weeks to get her feet in the door and up to speed on the project, she spoke well during meetings but then fobbed of requests for reports, delayed and prevaricated over any delivery at all. Ultimately during her time with us she delivered hee haw.

Basically she scored 3 months contracting work at a decent rate before jumping to a new contract for another company just before she got the boot from us.

It all felt quite well rehearsed and I wonder how many times she pulled off the scam and whether she is still doing it...?

Dunno about others but id be in breach of contract for not telling my employer.

Surely doing it without telling would be instant dismissal even more so if it was related industry.

I'm interested in this.

Assuming that the hours of the two jobs don't overlap or interfere with each other, why is it any business of either employer what you you do in your time away from that job? There are plenty of hours in the week to work 80 hours without overlap*, and many people do 60+ hours routinely for one employer.

*I'm not suggesting that this is wise, or that I would be doing it.

It's a fun story but does sound like bullshit spun out of someone just contracting. Imagine your shock if the guy fitting your kitchen had another job on the go.

Perhaps some folk do get away with it in some niche tech jobs, but what a shit, cynical way to live. Takes talent to do two full-time jobs badly, and you'd just be lying your way through the day actively trying to do low quality work.

I’m interested in this.

Assuming that the hours of the two jobs don’t overlap or interfere with each other, why is it any business of either employer what you you do in your time away from that job? There are plenty of hours in the week to work 80 hours without overlap*, and many people do 60+ hours routinely for one employer.

*I’m not suggesting that this is wise, or that I would be doing it.

Posted 55 seconds ago

Dunno - I suppose it would be perfectly ok to work doing procurement for Kwik-Fit as one job and the other job working as salesman for Avon Tyres. Could even have a third job as salesman for Snap-on tools...

or, perhaps, employers want to ensure no conflict of interest.

I suppose it would be perfectly ok to work doing procurement for Kwik-Fit as one job and the other job working as salesman for Avon Tyres. Could even have a third job as salesman for Snap-on tools…

Or as a company director with several companies? Or, as has been mentioned several times, as an MP? There seem to be many highly paid jobs where this isn't a problem. (Can NHS doctors work in a private capacity as well?)

Can't see how this would work in the UK for two full time jobs assuming you were doing everything legit with HMRC. I guess you first job wouldn't find out, but wouldn't the Payroll department of the 2nd job would pick up on it?

I also assume you can pick up as much work as you like contracting you just have to deliver on it?

Can NHS doctors work in a private capacity as well?

Yes, but they don't charge the same hours to both, which is what the OP was about.....

Yes, but they don’t charge the same hours to both, which is what the OP was about…..

OK, but could they? And why not, if not?

I guess you first job wouldn’t find out, but wouldn’t the Payroll department of the 2nd job would pick up on it?

Could you claim to your second employer that your first or main employment is rental income from property or something like that? Will they only see the amount of tax you are paying?

Well, previous employer has been back for a nibble and is currently being audited having not filled my role in the 5 months since I left. Have helped them out gratis on a couple of things since then (very minor requests done to help the individuals not the firm). Now however I think we've reached the watershed. What rate do you think to assist with their current acute issues, £1k/day?

Yeah, that Guardian story makes it sound like it's the latest trend or something. Utter balls. There's probably about 2 people doing it.

1k a day is fine as a day rate.

It's an interesting debate - what is work and what does value for money look look like to your employer? I'm sufficiently low on the greasy pole that most of the stuff I do requires time as much as it does judgment. I'm not going to be considered good value for money unless I'm working hours of my life away. But there are people where their ability to make good decisions is what makes them good vfm. If you could reasonably make those decisions in a few hours a week and they are good ones then I guess you could have multiple jobs with all employers feeling they were getting good service.

I've (kind of) done it.

Tech supporting roll in one industry whilst working at a start-up in another (it never got funding so I never got paid though). The first job was pretty much to sit by the phone in a hotel and wait for a call out so it was easy to attend meetings virtually. Of about 8 of us working on it, 3 of us were actively working on other paid roles, the rest were filling their time due to pandemic related redundancy.

In fact a lot of my colleagues are always working on their laptop whilst doing other jobs, usually on their own company that they're running alongside their day job.

If you're in an office job where you're expected to produce deliverables for clients and bill hourly it's probably impossible without actually working the hours.

But if you're a creative type and you quote an amount to produce something, why should it matter to the client whether it took you 3 weeks full time or 3 minutes and a holiday? It's your skill/eye/reputation they're paying for. Business execs somewhere in between. I kinda feel that if you're paid to research something and make a decision, then just making the decision based on gut feel isn't what your paid for.

Utter balls. There’s probably about 2 people doing it.

Sauce: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-59206904

Andrew Mitchell (Conservative) holds six consultancy jobs, supporting investment banks and accountancy firms. He has registered more than £180,000 for 34.5 days' work
Julian Smith (Conservative) is earning £144,000 for 62-84 hours' work for three companies, including advising on energy and renewable fuels
Former transport and justice secretary Chris Grayling (Conservative) earns £100,000 to advise Hutchison Ports
Mark Garnier (Conservative) is paid to sit on the advisory boards of two companies in the space and satellite industry, committing 20 hours a month for an annual payment of £90,000
Sir Ed Davey (Lib Dem) works as a consultant for two firms alongside his job as leader of the Liberal Democrats. He says his extra £78,000 income goes towards supporting his disabled son
Alun Cairns (Conservative), who left his post as Welsh Secretary in 2019, earns £60,000 advising three companies
Ruth Edwards (Conservative), who has represented Rushcliffe since 2019, commits to 192 hours for £60,000 per year, advising a software company
Stephen Hammond (Conservative) advises an investment company on political issues for £60,000 a year
Since leaving his role as health minister in 2019, Steve Brine (Conservative) has joined three firms, including Sigma Pharmaceuticals. He earns almost £60,000 for 288 hours
David Davis (Conservative) earns just over £50,000 as an adviser to two German companies
John Hayes (Conservative) offers up to 90 hours of his time annually to international energy company BB Energy Trading, earning £50,000
Former party leader and cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith (Conservative) advises two health companies for £45,000
Damian Green (Conservative) advises transport company Abellio on rail policy for 288 hours and £40,000 annually
Tim Loughton (Conservative) receives £37,000 for advising a children's services provider
Daniel Kawczynski (Conservative) provides "general advice" to an American mining firm, earning £36,000 a year
Andrew Percy (Conservative) receives £36,000 a year for advising a Canadian clean energy company for six hours a month
Khalid Mahmood (Labour) has committed up to 15 hours a month advising the Policy Exchange think tank on issues including extremism. He receives a salary of £25,000 a year
Laurence Robertson (Conservative) advises the Betting and Gaming Council for £24,000 a year. He is expected to commit 10 hours a month
Richard Fuller's (Conservative) outside earnings include £20,000 as an advisory director of an investment company
Chair of the House of Commons justice committee Sir Bob Neill (Conservative) has been receiving almost £20,000 for two consultancy roles, including a law firm. One of the roles ended earlier this year
Royston Smith (Conservative) has received £18,000 since May 2020 for 30 hours' work as a consultant for a property company
Until earlier this year, Mark Pritchard (Conservative) was earning £18,000 a year for advice by the Consumer Credit Association
Sir Greg Knight (Conservative) advises a bank for £16,000 a year on "general business and public relations"
Until earlier this year, Ben Everitt (Conservative) committed 60 to 80 hours a year to advising the Institute of Chartered Accountants of England and Wales for £15,000
Andrew Bridgen (Conservative) offers political advice for £12,000 a year, to a company which grows teak in Ghana
Philip Davies (Conservative) earns £12,000 annually as a parliamentary adviser to the National Pawnbroking Association
Sir Graham Brady (Conservative) earns £10,000 a year for 12 hours' work as a strategic adviser
Former universities minister Chris Skidmore (Conservative) provides advice on higher education for £10,000 a year
Paul Maynard (Conservative) earns £6,250 a year as a consultant to a banking services company. He says his earnings go straight to charity
John Redwood (Conservative) is an adviser for a private equity fund, for which he earns £5,000
Until earlier this year, Andrew Lewer (Conservative) provided public policy advice to a property firm for £4,800 per year
Dean Russell (Conservative) has received just over £2,000 in 2021 as a consultant for a business training company

Wasn't talking about politicians. Obviously they're all at it.

I'm sure most of the dev team in my last role were doing this.

They certainly weren't doing much for our company anyway.

Assuming that the hours of the two jobs don’t overlap or interfere with each other, why is it any business of either employer what you you do in your time away from that job?

Employees should well for work, including suitable rest. Working excessive hours that your employer is unaware means you could be fatigued at work putting yourself and colleagues at risk.

I even have to declare none paid roles and voluntary work.

Working excessive hours that your employer is unaware means you could be fatigued at work putting yourself and colleagues at risk.

The only time this should be the answer is if you actually are a risk to others during work time. Would you accept them trying to limit what you do as recreation for the same reason? (I accept that your job is slightly different in regards 'risk to others'.. 😀 )

The only time this should be the answer is if you actually are a risk to others during work time. Would you accept them trying to limit what you do as recreation for the same reason?

Then it would be too late. Well that’s harder to do, but not impossible if they’re constantly coming in tired and unrested there would be a discussion around that.

Two jobs? Lightweight. He’s clearly not cut out to join the Conservatives as an MP.

I work in IT (software implementation) and I can confidently say that if I had two jobs at my current workload I would go postal. Earlier this year I could probably have done 3 jobs at the workload I had, but as someone mentioned earlier it's all peaks and troughs and hoping they don't ever coincide.

There is also the fact that I'd probably get sacked from at least one of them due to non-compete clauses etc.

Anyway, I have a mantra. I work to live I don't live to work.

Just got an email from my agency/crown commercial services asking me to confirm I've not got two jobs!

Just got an email from my agency/crown commercial services asking me to confirm I’ve not got two jobs!

Someone there has a 2nd job reading the Guardian online.....

This was the best bit of the article.

“Sacrificing one’s time for a payoff later is a promise that capitalism has made since the 19th century, and has only been realised for a rarefied few,”

We should be doing 4 day weeks, not 10 day weeks.