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My Focus has just been in for a service at a main dealer which included changing the two worn front tyres.
Anyway, I've just got the car back and they've fitted two different tyres - they put an NCT-5 (the same as the car originally came with) on one side and an Efficientgrip on the other. They've got different tread patterns and a different wear rating (240 vs 340) so will presumably wear and grip differently.
Is it just me or is this a bit shoddy? I always thought you were meant to fit matching tyres on each axle. Is it something I should kick up a fuss about?
It's not you, it's taking the pish.
YES ....
unless he gave you a mahoosive discount
Is it your wheel? Could have been changing someone else's tyres at the same time and just got the wheels mixed up. As they're a Ford main dealer I'd expect them to potentially have more than one Focus in the workshop at the same time. Might be worth a polite query "Hi guys, I think you've put the wrong wheel on the car", before going all guns blazing.
Theyll prob use a local tyre place. Local place had run out so fitted what they had. I'd expect matching tyres if I was paying a main dealer.
A 1k car maybe not
Who on earth gets a main dealer to put new tyres on? They probably drove it straight round to KwikFit then added 20% onto the bill.
Tomorrow I forsee they'll insult your intelligence..
Who on earth gets a main dealer to put new tyres on? They probably drove it straight round to KwikFit then added 20% onto the bill.
Me. I used to get a BMW main dealer to replace the tyres on a 1-series. They were as cheap as e-tyres and many other web prices. They were changed on site. So, in answer to your question, I (on earth) got a main dealer to change my tyres. A few times.
Thanks all - sounds like I should give them a ring in the morning.
As for price - they're actually ok. Last time I got the tyres changed their initial quote was the cheapest I could find locally or online. Although not the very cheapest, they were pretty reasonable this time round too.
What I don't understand is why anyone with even a modicum of intelligence wouldn't just call them and ask why they done this, and when were they going to make it a matching pair. Not post on an online forum...
😆
our local ford dealer (furrows) is also a massive tyre dealer so pretty much all the local car and tyre dealers use them.
they are pretty cheap. but not the cheapest.
as for your original question yes they are taking the pee
What I don't understand is why anyone with even a modicum of intelligence wouldn't just call them and ask why they done this, and when were they going to make it a matching pair. Not post on an online forum...
Because not everyone (including your local MOT test centre and the Police) recognises that mixing brands/types/tread patterns is inherently unsafe. I would have thought anyone with a modicum of intelligence could have deduced that themselves.
Edit: I should just add that I DO consider it unsafe.
"What I don't understand is why anyone with even a modicum of intelligence wouldn't just call them and ask why they done this, and when were they going to make it a matching pair. Not post on an online forum..."
Er... because they're shut? Mainly though, if they drag their feet when I call I want to know if it's worth pushing. There'd have been no point hassling them over something which might not matter in the first place.
deadlydarcy has a point. The MB dealer fitted Contis for less than I could get them elsewhere.
What I don't understand is why anyone with even a modicum of intelligence wouldn't just call them and ask why they done this, and when were they going to make it a matching pair. Not post on an online forum...
On THIS Earth, it was the OP...Oh and Lord Darcy. 🙄
You struggling to read the posts patriotpro?
I don't see why mismatched tyres are a problem. You don't turn left and right at the same time. Road camber means each turn has its own characteristics you need to anticipate.
My OCD would demand matching tyres if nothing else did.
some Ford dealers are also "proper" tyre shops but are as murky as the rest of them - I had one put two new tyres on a Galaxy once - I assumed they'd fit identical tyres to the factory fit as i'd put in for service as regular as was a high mileage company car and they got a lot of business not just mine - they fitted un-reinforced tyres and I blew one out on holiday with the kids - seriously considered suing them - lesson learnt now I always check every wheel before driving away
[i]I don't see why mismatched tyres are a problem[/i]
Had mis-matched tyres on an old car, it was fairly small car with a big old diesel lump and it used to spin the nearside front all the time in the wet...and under heavy braking the left would lock fairly easily. The left one was a cheapo.
Did they also fail to align the mouldings with the valves?
spooky_b329 - Member
I don't see why mismatched tyres are a problemHad mis-matched tyres on an old car, it was fairly small car with a big old diesel lump and it used to spin the nearside front all the time in the wet...and under heavy braking the left would lock fairly easily. The left one was a cheapo.
Likewise, I've got 3 Conti Sport Contacts on my Focus and the (main dealer) tosspots stuck on one Pirelli P6000 on the passenger side. 🙄 Rotated it to the back now, but every time pulling away from a junction in wet/cold weather it would spin up.
It must be a rock hard compound as well as it is showing virtually no wear where as the others are coming up to replacement.
I didn't answer the question. I'd be back for a matching pair.
It must be a rock hard compound as well as it is showing virtually no wear where as the others are coming up to replacement.
Ah, a Pirelli ditch-hugger. Yup, impossible to kill, and consequently also offer about as much grip as an arthritic OAP to a greasy pole.
DP
Main dealers are very often equal or better to the cheapest quotes out there including the likes of Black Circles etc.
In fact, Kwik Fit tend to be the most expensive.
Does no one else remember:
Oh the humanity!
Frankly when this was on TV I didnt have a clue what the difference was between crossply and radial, but I was terrified Dad didnt know either 😀
Gave them a ring this morning and they agreed it didn't sound right, so they'll be swapping one over. Happy days.
What I don't understand is why anyone with even a modicum of intelligence wouldn't just call them and ask why they done this, and when were they going to make it a matching pair. Not post on an online forum...
What I don't understand is how anyone with a modicom of intelligence would continually post negative, critical comments about people they don't know on an online forum.
You must get something out of it though.
"Did they also fail to align the mouldings with the valves?"
recently i asked a tyre fitter "do you know what the red dot is for?"
unsurprisingly his answer was no.
I explained and the 2nd tyre balanced up without any weights, funny that.
What red dot, and how does it help?
I don't see why mismatched tyres are a problem. You don't turn left and right at the same time. Road camber means each turn has its own characteristics you need to anticipate.
You use an air brake for deceleration do you?
I don't see why mismatched tyres are a problem. You don't turn left and right at the same time. Road camber means each turn has its own characteristics you need to anticipate.
So.... You think having a ton-and-a-half of blunt metal with varying levels of grip at each corner is a good idea? Even when it's perfectly possible to have, at the very least, matching tyres on each axle? Some people can't even drive past a car on the other side of the road without stamping on the brakes. You think they've got the cognitive capacity to anticipate a corner's individual "characteristics" whilst taking into account the delicate balance of traction their four different ditchfinders afford?
Speshpaul - Member
"Did they also fail to align the mouldings with the valves?"recently i asked a tyre fitter "do you know what the red dot is for?"
unsurprisingly his answer was no.
I explained and the 2nd tyre balanced up without any weights, funny that.
Ooh, I had wondered about that...the nerd in me loves that fact.
*goes off to check tyres*
You want two of the same and they were out of stick or a bit poo on service!
Make sure the efficientgrip is the performance version if they charged you £60+
After my experience with Ford - I'd Never buy another. Service and faults is terrible.
Used to be a Ford fan.
Would never use a main dealer for tyres unless I was rich! My GF uses BMW for their run flat tyres.
Out of interest did they put the new tyres on the front or swap them to the rear?
Out of interest did they put the new tyres on the front or swap them to the rear?
oh heavens no
should be new on the rear, but that's a whole different argument
efficientgrip is the performance version
what does it do the non-performance version doesn't?
mrmonkfinger - MemberOut of interest did they put the new tyres on the front or swap them to the rear?
oh heavens no
should be new on the rear, but that's a whole different argument
New on the rear?? Why?!?! Are you just trolling?
New on the rear?? Why?!?! Are you just trolling?
This is correct, new or best tyres on the rear.
Depends on whether the car is FWD or RWD surely?
I'd want my braking & steering tyres to be the best nick ones.
New on the rear?? Why?!?! Are you just trolling
The new tyres will offer more grip. If you stand on the brakes the theory is the car is more stable, less likely to spin. It's usually recommended new tyres go on the rear
P20 - MemberNew on the rear?? Why?!?! Are you just trolling
The new tyres will offer more grip. If you stand on the brakes the theory is the car is more stable, less likely to spin. It's usually recommended new tyres go on the rear
Yeah but we're talking about a FWD focus here. You're not exactly going to lose the rear on any corners and the front does the heavy breaking too.
It's the same with a bike, I would much prefer more grip on the front.
dirtycrewdom - MemberYeah but we're talking about a FWD focus here. You're not exactly going to lose the rear on any corners and the front does the heavy breaking too.
It's the same with a bike, I would much prefer more grip on the front.
For FWD cars, I thought the latest advice is to put new tyres on the rear for almost exactly the reason you mention....
You expect a front wheel drive car to understeer and that's what it should do. Stick grippy new tyres on the front and you might find that the rear has less grip than the front so you turn into a corner and all of a sudden your understeery car is oversteering.....
I had it happen to me with my Ibiza due to some really cheap ditchfinders the previous owner had put on the car after mentioning 2 bald tyres when I test drove it.
Luckily my awesome skills meant I managed to keep it on the road with a 'dab of oppo'.....
Surely that's the point. Oversteer is instinctively easier to correct (up to a point obviously). If your car understeers you're just along for the ride...
i find not driving at the limit of my car means i tend to get my self into these situations not very often.
beanum - Member
Surely that's the point. Oversteer is instinctively easier to correct (up to a point obviously). If your car understeers you're just along for the ride...
Eh?
Car understeers, lift off throttle a bit, car regains grip, carry on as you were.....obviously if you are really ham-fisted you might provoke lift off oversteer, but unlikely unless you are driving a 205GTi.
In my experience, oversteer is much harder to correct and regain control of than understeer.
The point is that this particular car is designed to understeer....it's set up to understeer. You then make it oversteery and things get unpredictable.
Anyhoo. it makes sense to me, so that's what I have done. New tyres on the rear for my FWD car.
beanum - MemberSurely that's the point. Oversteer is instinctively easier to correct (up to a point obviously). If your car understeers you're just along for the ride...
I think the point is that under the weight transfer of emergency braking/swerving, you don't really want the back end overtaking the front!
Understeer is instinctive to cancel anyway, just lift off the accel or brake and it usually sorts itself out with no drama.
Oversteer is not difficult to initially catch, but avoiding a tankslapper oscillation by winding off the countersteer at the right time is quite a skill! Unless you're glupton of course.
29 secs on...
I think they are both as predictable as each other. The most unpredictable thing is the actual roads. Could be diesel or oil on the road. Either way people should know what to do when the car skids.
Understeer - Dip Clutch, eventually will turn
Oversteer - Dip Clutch, will stop oversteer
I personally prefer oversteer, as tightening a turn can be untightened. Understeer cannot be countered, unless you slow down or lift off oversteer.
Whichever one, you need to know how the car will react before you know what to do. This is why I think skid pan should be mandatory.
Interesting points. I just wouldn't like the front to be jumping through the turn or skidding from not having enough grip. If it's that slippy though I guess the tyres should have been changed.
What way round would you have it on your bike Stumpy?
I have grippy on the front for the mtb, opposite way round for my FWD van. I'm not really sure you can compare the two...
Edit: Check this out [url= http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/car-tyres.html ]http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/car-tyres.html[/url]
Anyway..... Now that can of worms has been opened....what's the story from the OP?
Milkie - MemberUndersteer - Dip Clutch, eventually will turn
Oversteer - Dip Clutch, will stop oversteer
This is a massive oversimplication and quite simply wrong in many circumstances.
If you are going to generalise, it would be better to say "reverse the input that caused it".
the advice from the AA is ok, but i feel you are more likely to rapidly slow down / stop - alter direction than need to correct oversteer in the wet.
I'll happily keep the new rubber on the front.
Bottom line- most cars are front wheel drive, that means go-stop and steer through the same two patchs of rubber. Its not asking for much.
If you want to practice catching oversteer try a quad bike on snow/ice. With the short wheel base when they go they go quickly. Loads of fun though 😀
obviously if you are really ham-fisted you might provoke lift off oversteer, but unlikely unless you are driving a 205GTi
The 306 was quite good for this too.
stumpy01 - MemberFor FWD cars, I thought the latest advice is to put new tyres on the rear for almost exactly the reason you mention....
You expect a front wheel drive car to understeer and that's what it should do. Stick grippy new tyres on the front and you might find that the rear has less grip than the front so you turn into a corner and all of a sudden your understeery car is oversteering...
Lots of people swear by that, I don't buy it at all... The 2 ends aren't doing the same job, the front does the lion's share of the changing of direction (and braking, and drive in fwd cars), the rear is more or less along for the ride. It's certainly true that if the rear end brakes loose on a fwd things are a bit clenchier than if you slide the front by the same amount, but it's also true that it's less likely to happen than the front, all other things being equal.
Speshpaul - Member
the advice from the AA is ok, but i feel you are more likely to rapidly slow down / stop - alter direction than need to correct oversteer in the wet.
I'll happily keep the new rubber on the front.
Bottom line- most cars are front wheel drive, that means go-stop and steer through the same two patchs of rubber. Its not asking for much.
Oh, maybe you should let all the tyre manufacturers know they're wrong then? 😀
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips
http://www.klebertyres.co.uk/KleberUK/front/index.jsp?codeRubrique=8032005184616
http://www.goodyear.eu/uk_en/tire-advice/faq/tire-maintenance.jsp
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/help.page#rotate
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/cf/tires/buying-new-tires-tire-mounting-tips
Oversteer is not difficult to initially catch, but avoiding a tankslapper oscillation by winding off the countersteer at the right time is quite a skill! Unless you're glupton of course.
Just make sure your front wheels are pointing the way you want to go and you'll be grand.
I've no idea how to describe what to do in a slide. It just happens whatever happens to correct. I still cant remember which is over and understeer!
I still cant remember which is over and understeer!
If you crash into the ditch front first its understeer
if you crash into the ditch rear first its oversteer
Penny Mallory was no slouch behind the wheel but even she cant help but be impressed, McRae's car control was just sublime.
why did you not check what dealer had fitted before leaving their premises ?
if you haven't already done so you need to return to said dealer to determine year of manufacture there will be a date code on the side wall of the Tyre which denotes week and year from what i can remember the NCT 5 hasn't been manufactured for some time now and they have only a shelf life of 4 years and usual after 10 years whether they have been in service or not the manufacturer recommends that they are scrapped ideally you need them to rectify this situation with a pair of identical tyres on either axle
with regard to all the threads relating to who recommends what the general opinion of the tyre manufacture is when fitting only a pair of new tyres across an axle it is usually to the rear and move the rears to the front this is mainly due to you more a custom to driving the car with worn tyres and is attributed to either a front or rear wheel drive car unless said rear wheel drive car has different size tyres front and rear
the above advice should/would be given to the customer at point of sale in a real world once given the customer can then decide on whether to take said advice or not
and for all u grammar freaks excuse the grammar and punctuation/spellings mistakes
The car was dropped off when I wasn't around to check.
Anyway, as I mentioned yesterday - they agreed it didn't sound right and fitted two matching tyres, so everything ended well as far as I'm concerned.
Retro
to quote the Mich link you posted
"Rear wheels are not connected to your steering wheel,"
what all of the links above discribe is one situation where you might lose the back end and where extra tread depth would help in standing water. and yes it would, in that one situation.
In all the other situations i'd rather have the most resistance to aqua planing on the wheels i steer and stop with.
also if you took their example to the extreme and had new tyres on the back and 2mm of tread on the front, the front would probably wash out before the back anyway.
Plus many test show (nice quote from Kieber IIRC) that on a FWD car if you put the new tyres on the back and the most worn ones on the front, that you'll be back buying a pair of tyres for the front again in a few weeks.
First time I've put new on the front and left the old on the rear.
In the wet the fronts out gripped my older rears. But it was easy to control and braked better.
mrmonkfinger - Member
efficientgrip is the performance version
what does it do the non-performance version doesn't?
POSTED 5 DAYS AGO # REPORT-POST
It's better in the wet and braking. Won numerous tests. I've used both and the difference in the wet is huge. But drive safely anyway and both are fine.
tbh driving around the uk any major understeer incidents are likely to see you on the other side of the road pretty swiftly or into a barrier.