Forced to work in office during notice period

What’s the worst they can do if you say no?

how much fuss do you want to make?  I might just continue with hybrid working of 3 days in and two days at home.  Hard to see what they can do so long as you are doing the work on your two days WFH.

Tell them to jog on and I’d leave sooner !!

How long a notice period are we talking about, how much of a commute are we talking about? I.e. how much of an actual ballache are we talking about over and above not liking being told what to do and limiting sofa surfing in your last days?

What’s the worst they can do if you say no?

Breach of contract and loss of notice pay (which is what the employer may want, knowing that the leaver will be doing next to F all until their leaving date and they would rather save a few thousand £££s).

But realistically, if the current policy of hybrid working has been in place for a while (whether written into existing T&Cs or not), it can be termed as an implied variation and the employer *may* be in breach of the variation. Hard to prove unless the OP wants a protracted battle. If I was the OP I'd go into the office and just do the bare minimum.

Also OP - has the employer done the same for other leavers or is this a new one? If they haven't done it before for other leaving hybrid workers then you could claim you have been treated unfairly.

I think whether it's reasonable or not probably depends on your industry and role and the circumstances in which you are leaving.

I can think of combinations of circumstances in my industry where I would consider it appropriate to protect data, manage certain risks, make someone more available for handovers, manage productivity and workload etc.

Equally I wouldn't personally consider it a default position either.

As above depends how much of an issue it is to be in the office and how long the notice period is. Most hr and disciplinary processes to handle this sort of thing are slow and cumbersome and a PITA for da management so I expect nothing would actually come of it anyway.

Ask them to put it in writing that after handing in your notice they are making a change to your regular and established working pattern.

Ask them to put it in writing that after handing in your notice they are making a change to your regular and established working pattern.

But as mentioned above, that will depend on how long the existing arrangement has been in place and it is very much a grey area as to how much time should have passed before it becomes a binding implied term (and this is even before considering whether a change to the contracted place of work could be incorporated into implied terms – if his contracted says his place of work is the office, then they could probably argue successfully that any change to that was a goodwill decision for all workers but operational requirements dictate the leaver must be in the office for handovers).

Just call in sick, get a work related stress ticket from your GP if your notice period is longer than self-cert..
Naff all they can do about it then, and you get free time off.

Although, If you're in the office 3 days a week anyway, is it really so much of an issue?

I would be suggesting that they do one and that if they are that concerned then gardening leave would be a more appropriate option.
If your office is very close though, you could go in for an hour a day and then you can state you were on site each day

You could start a grievance for the change in working patterns.  Normal procedure for a grievance for something like that is "status quo applies until grievance resolved"  so in your case it would take weeks to resolve the grievance.  Bit of a burning bridges option tho

Have a look at your emplyers policy or staff handbook.  I would be surprised if the "must return to office full time during notice period is a formal policy.  My bet is its a stroppy manager

I'm assuming this is because of concerns about a drop off in output during the notice period? As tjagain said, if you do the hours then no bother, so if possible make this apparent to them.
I'd be very wary of taking time off 'sick'; could have implications for reference or data requests from the new employer. Unless you're retiring, in which case, go nuts.

Fair point, I'd probably do the time in the office, but if it's putting you out, then just mentally check out and do the bare minimum.

Everyone in my line of work generally gets put on garden leave anyway, if they put thier notice in due to access to sensitive data etc.

Although I'd still ask the OP, if you're in office 3 days a week anyway, is it really a big deal?

Have they supplied your reference, do you need to maintain a positive relationship with them? It is usually good to leave on a positive note but if you are moving industry or are not fussed, then I would make a nice big flask of coffee, head in to the office in my comfiest clothes then kick back and does absolutely nothing. I would cycle between news, twitter, Netflix and STW on my work computer or phone, take long lunches and self certify lots of sickness.

Johndoh, such a request probably won't do much more than a bit of mild manager panic and some wasting of HR time. Which is why it's worth doing if they're being ****s about him leaving. If there's a decent reason why he suddenly needs to be there 100%, I'd have expected that to be given.

^yea this is an important consideration, if you have a good relationship and want to get a good reference/not burn bridges I'd say it's worth playing ball.

If not, then do what you want, it won't make any difference.

You say current company policy is a minimum if 3 days each week in the office.
I suggest the relevant word is 'minimum' so the company can mandate every day in the office.
You're working your notice so just go to the office, do the absolute minimum, keep strictly to minimum working hours, ensure work mobile and laptop - if you have either/or - are only on during work hours, take all breaks to the maximum time allowable, take any holiday entitlement unless you're selling it back, decline to take decisions or provide guidance etc on the basis that should not be the responsibility of a soon to be ex-employee.

Ask them if they want you in the office obviously doing heehaw or at home doing heehaw but out of sight.

You need to be in the office to parade around that smile that says, “see ya losers, I’m getting out of here.”

Plus you might get free cake!

Are there spinning chairs in the office? Go in and just spend your time making yourself dizzy and distracting everyone else.

In all seriousness do you have a workload that requires a formal and in depth handover? If so then I can see why they’d want you in the office.

a) what are they going to do if you play hooky?
b) you could just suck it up, life is too short to waste it in battle with nobodies when you're leaving anyway.

Notice periods suck anyway. No-one works properly and no-one enjoys the leaver being there, it's just a charade that we all play out every so often because no-one has the guts to do anything about it.

You're leaving, no point playing games, just go in and do the job until you leave, it's a run down period as well.

As lots of people have mentioned, how much of a ball ache is it going into the office? Also how long is your notice period?

Lots of options but for me they fall somewhere between these two extremes.

If you like your boss and colleagues just stuck it up.

Speak to your new employer and say you can start earlier than expected. Finish your last day at the current place the day after the next payday. Start your new job the following day. Getting a P45 may be problematic but there are ways around this https://www.safeworkers.co.uk/employment-law/employer-wont-give-p45/

You don't need a P45 to start a new job; an HMRC Starter Form (previously P46) is enough.
If the previous employer drags their heels removing you from their payroll then so be it. It takes a bit longer to get tax coding sorted, for example, but it sorts out in the end. Obviously if you don't receive one after a few months, then from the point of view of needing it in lieu of a P60 it becomes an issue, but that's where downloading/printing all received wage slips is vital.

Honestly, I wouldn't even reply, I'd ignore it and carry on business as usual. What are they going to do, sack you? You've already left.

Just go in and do nothing. Go round and chat to old friends. Go to the disabled loo for a ****. Research hikes, bike rides, holidays and things to buy. Email the wife. Play on your phone and slurp your brew.

OP not responded. Assuming that he’s been forced in to the office where STW is inaccessible

As an employer myself, I do find it disheartening that so many obviously intelligent people seem to think it’s all well and good to shaft your old employer off so willingly. If this is the level STW works at, what is the hope for the wider workforce in the UK?

Thank you for all the replies so far. I am on 3 months notice period which has just begun. In the past and also currently with another team member people have been allowed to continue their hybrid working pattern and have not been requested to be in the office full time. I do not need a reference as setting up my own company but equally don’t want to end 9 years with the company on a sour note.

Getting into the office adds about 2 hours to my day and also costs me £21.

Are you starting up in the same industry? Could it be that they are wanting to keep an eye on you and make sure you leave with nothing more than the knowledge in your head?

johndoh
Free Member
As an employer myself, I do find it disheartening that so many obviously intelligent people seem to think it’s all well and good to shaft your old employer off so willingly. If this is the level STW works at, what is the hope for the wider workforce in the UK?

yeah either that or people just trying to be funny on the Internet.
Of course I wouldn't go in the disabled loo for a ****.... I'd go in the normal loo like everybody else!

In the past and also currently with another team member people have been allowed to continue their hybrid working pattern and have not been requested to be in the office full time.

So its not a hard policy then and indeed you could argue you are being treated unfairly

3 months notice is pretty much unenforceable anyway

Perhaps a meeting with your boss and basically tell him.  Enforce 5 days a week in the office and all goodwill is withdrawn and I'll report this to HR  or continue hybrid working and I'll work hard for 3 months?

Your boss and your employer are not your friends.  Don't have misplaced loyalty.

As an employer myself, I do find it disheartening that so many obviously intelligent people seem to think it’s all well and good to shaft your old employer off so willingly.

What goes around comes around.  treat your workforce well and they will reciprocate.  Behave badly like this chaps employer has and no more goodwill.  Shaft your employees and they will shaft you in return

A happy workforce is a productive one

Getting into the office adds about 2 hours to my day and also costs me £21.

I think that makes it quite clear. Are they paying you an adidditional £21 plus expences?

No they are not.

I do find it disheartening that so many obviously intelligent people seem to think it’s all well and good to shaft your old employer off so willingly.

Whilst I take your point, the OP has already been shafted so it's quid pro quo.

I would very politely ask their reasoning ie is it you want me to hand over to someone Explain about the travel time.

There response is almost irrelevant and IMO you just have to suck it up.

I left a job recently and they made me come in 2 days per week when I was wfh. Still don’t know why. I just did the minimum I could, and chatted to as many people as possible. Turned out to be a very good way of networking for future job opportunities

the OP has already been shafted so it’s quid pro quo.

Behave badly like this chaps employer has and no more goodwill.

I'm not sure how you can conclude that the OP has been shafted or his employer is behaving badly based on what's posted. As noted by a few here (those not advocating sandbagging the notice period) there's a number of legitimate business reasons why you might want/need/expect someone in the office more during a notice period.

The only way the OP is going to deal with this is by speaking to his employer.

there’s a number of legitimate business reasons why you might want/need/expect someone in the office more during a notice period.

such as?

I’m not sure how you can conclude that the OP has been shafted or his employer is behaving badly based on what’s posted.

Enforcing 2 extra days in the office when others do not have to do this - so its not a solid policy and the OP is being singled out. Cost to the OP is £500  thats being shafted

Its also impossible to enforce under UK law as its a change to regular working patterns which is a contractual change ( under custom and practice if not in the written contract)which cannot be done without the employees consent

As an ex trade union rep this is the sort of thing I loved.  such an easy case.

As an employer myself, I do find it disheartening that so many obviously intelligent people seem to think it’s all well and good to shaft your old employer off so willingly. If this is the level STW works at, what is the hope for the wider workforce in the UK?

As a (previous) worker myself, I do find it disheartening that another employer endorses such a petty and obnoxious attempt at punishment of an employee for having the temerity to leave a job. If this is the level STW works at, what is the hope for the wider management in the UK?

**** all managers everywhere.

If you are a manager and reading this, **** you, get back to work!

Oh yeah, you can't. You don't have any actual work to do. Your job is to annoy the people who are actually working and feverishly find new ways to justify your own existence.

Your job should be to make sure I don't run out of paperclips. Well, not necessarily paperclips but whatever I happen to need to ensure I can continue doing the job that actually makes the company money and pays your wages you piss poor excuse for a human being.

Now stop reading this and get back to devising new methods of torture for the people who are actually capable of being productive, you cretin.

Just go in tbpfh. Then tell them aboit your not exactly unreasonable commute and ask if you can go to three...

To the employer who posted above.
Do you really think that forcing someone to come in an extra 2 days because they have handed in their notice is actually a fair and correct thing to do?
Fingers crossed your employees are a bunch you can walk over then

In all fairness, we don't actually know if it's a case of being 'forced' to go in; the OP stated that it was casual hybrid working, and that their contract explicitly states the office as their workplace. It's certainly not nice, but it's not tribunal level discrimination. In retrospect, getting a contract amendment to recognise working from home for 2 out of 5 days might have been prudent, but that's a moot point. As I and others have said, email your reasons for not wanting to do it - with examples of other leavers and their notice periods for consistency.
We also don't know the historical relationship between employee and employer, as much as we all want to trust the sincerity of the OP. We're not privy to their records or history, so generalised grievances towards employers don't really help; we've all had crap managers, for sure. Whoever is making the decision has their reasons - and these might seem jobsworthy or even nefarious - but until you've got all the facts, it's speculative. Yes, lots of managers or HR admin below them are whoppers, but it might be a more substantial reason than just sticking the boot in.
Personally, given the light at the end of the tunnel with self-employment, I'd accept it and turn in. The extra £500 in travel costs would sting, but the thought of a minimum week's leave in that 3 month notice (along with 3 bank holidays in May) breaks it up. Especially with the improved weather and enjoying the riding whilst contemplating being your own boss.

I'd just be having a face to face conversation - I know that's not the internet way when it come to advice and most recommend the nuclear options. Get a handle on why they think you specifically need to be in and others did not. It could be they envisage using you in a different way in your last 3 months and that is better done at the office. It could be that as they know It could be all about handover. It could be that as you are setting up your own company when you leave they plain don't trust you not to be spending your time out of the office getting that off the ground to mitigate the massive short term drop in income you can expect on day one unless you've done your prep first. It could be they have been concerned about your performance away from the office already and were going to put measures in place and your resignation has just brought that to the fore faster. It could be if your new business is in the sector you'll spend the days away from oversight pinching clients. It could be they want you to start negotiation shorter notice and think this might induce it from your perspective). Who knows. But a real conversation might well help make that happen. It also might bring about a shortening of the notice period which may of may not be a good thing from your perspective (were you planning on using the 3 months to get things up and running on the down low and no pay sooner would be you scuppered?)

As above it sounds like you place of work is the office and wfh some of the time is a recent (post pandemic) exception. TJ has obviously been involved union representation but as far as I'm aware not since the pandemic and not in this sort of environment so I'd take his advice at arms length. The fact is that millions have been ordered back to the office and not always uniformly. This is a very new and current issue across the country and globe. I doubt there is much that could be done (or worth doing) going down that route.

Oh, it could also be that your colleagues that left were seen (in retrospect, by the employer/manger) to be bone idle when WFH on notice and you are just the first recipient of the new working notice policy. After all, for the vast majority of us, motivation when serving notice is definitely below what it was prior to that. Would I be effective WFH when working my notice - not sure I would be, especially if my head was full of all the stresses of setting up my own business.

TJ has obviously been involved union representation but as far as I’m aware not since the pandemic and not in this sort of environment so I’d take his advice at arms length

Fair enough.  Advice on the internet is worth what yo pay for it 🙂

Fair enough.  Advice on the internet is worth what yo pay for it 🙂

oh shit! nobody said that was part of the STW membership package!

As a (previous) worker myself, I do find it disheartening that another employer endorses such a petty and obnoxious attempt at punishment of an employee for having the temerity to leave a job. If this is the level STW works at, what is the hope for the wider management in the UK?

I don't endorse it (I can't as I don't know the exact details), but I can see that there could quite legitimately be business reasons why they would want the OP to be in the office more regularly to ensure a smooth handover.

To the employer who posted above.
Do you really think that forcing someone to come in an extra 2 days because they have handed in their notice is actually a fair and correct thing to do?
Fingers crossed your employees are a bunch you can walk over then

Again, depends on whether there are any legitimate business reasons for the OPs employer. And, for what it is worth, I wouldn't behave like that as my business has transitioned to almost exclusively remote working now so we would be happy to do any required handovers remotely. And I would never 'walk over' employees, that isn't in my nature – but, likewise, I wouldn't expect any of my employees, working their notice, to get themselves signed off sick or any other methods in order to avoid working their notice as that could be very disruptive to our business and clients. (And in 19 years of business, no-one has done anything like that so hopefully I *AM* seen as a fair employer).

And I would never ‘walk over’ employees, that isn’t in my nature – but, likewise, I wouldn’t expect any of my employees, working their notice, to get themselves signed off sick or any other methods in order to avoid working their notice as that could be very disruptive to our business and clients.

Exactly - treat your staff well they will be more productive.

What legitimate bushiness reasons could there be?  Not argumentative just interested to know what I might have missed.  I cannot see anything that going on notice changes

This probably isn't an employer related issue, it is more than likely personality driven by the OPs line management chain. It's pettiness for the sake of pettiness, and will stem from more than just handing in their notice.

It's doubtful it's as black and white as seems, but if i was the OP, i'd be looking at justification for this change in circumstances, i.e. are they wanting to train someone up, hand over equipment, etc, etc, if so, who else is there, will there be the appropriate supervision in office, inclusive of H&S coverage, final one would be agreeing a reduced notice period.

What legitimate bushiness reasons could there be? Not argumentative just interested to know what I might have missed.

I have no idea, as I don't know the OPs line of work, but if it was in my business, the employee could be halfway through a software development project and needs to spend additional time handing it over to a wider team of developers, account managers, delivery leads etc (and, as they all work in the office three days a week but not necessarily the *SAME* three days a week, the OP needs to be in the office more regularly in order to handover to them all). But as I say, it wouldn't really be a problem for us as we are 90% remote but clearly the OPs employer is not as everyone goes into the office three days a week as a minimum anyway.

if so, who else is there, will there be the appropriate supervision in office, inclusive of H&S coverage

The company already expect all employees to be in the premises 60% of the time as a minimum - it's hardly going to be a wilderness of bindweed and discarded pre pandemic McDonald's boxes.

The company already expect all employees to be in the premises 60% of the time as a minimum – it’s hardly going to be a wilderness of bindweed and discarded pre pandemic McDonald’s boxes.

You say that, but then have the misfortune to look in the works fridge for milk!

don’t want to end 9 years with the company on a sour note.

I think they've done that for you. Funkydunk has a reasonable approach. Enjoy your three months. 🙂

whats the sickness policy

whats the sickness policy

Taking time off when you are genuinely sick is the common practice.

Can you agree to that to facilitate an easier handover against a shorter notice period? I did something similar on my last move.

time handing it over to a wider team of developers, account managers, delivery leads etc

You could argue that's better done remotely via Teams. I've just started a contract & most of the handover from the guy I'm backfilling as he moves to a project is done WFH. That way Teams sessions can be recorded in addition to note taking.

there could quite legitimately be business reasons why they would want the OP to be in the office more regularly to ensure a smooth handover.

I agree it's a theoretical possibility, but if it were the case, I'd assume that this would have been explained to the OP and he would either agree or disagree and in any case mention it in his post, since not doing so would render any advice very hypothetical and probably irrelevant. I mean, "I'm the only person who can operate machine X and it takes Y days to train up my replacement" would certainly change the context very significantly.

You could argue that’s better done remotely via Teams.

Yes, yes you could. Equally you could argue, as I did, that the employer may prefer to do it face-to-face. We're all guessing as to why the decision was actually taken – it could have been for very legitimate business reasons just as much as it could have been nothing but sheer bloody-mindedness.

Could it not be as simple and cynical as the employers want to get the most output, for as long as they keep paying for it?

They might just be thinking that those two days out of the office could be used by the OP to set up his new hustle on their coin, and they want to avoid that?

They still pay, they want to have some control while they do.

I would chirpily go in the office, ostentatiously put my feet on a desk while messing on my phone and take long lunches. Thinking of the good life to come.

I don't believe in annoying people while working your notice, but expecting full commitment is foolish and with this example expecting attendance at a greater level than normal just because you have handed in notice is idiotic

Quite.

Either the OP is sufficiently well paid that complaining about an extra £21 is just being petty, or they're not in which case the company should consider itself lucky that the employee is still around at all after the first fortnight.

This has probably been said already, but if the OP is starting a new business his bosses probably don't want him sat at home working on his new enterprise while being paid by them. Especially if it's a related business.

I would chirpily go in the office, ostentatiously put my feet on a desk while messing on my phone and take long lunches. Thinking of the good life to come.

I like this. You could go full Gallic. Have a chaise lounge installed and drape yourself over it, wearing a smoking jacket, sipping absinthe, smoking Gitanes and reading poetry.

If anyone challenges you, simply shrug and say something enigmatic about seagulls, sardines and trawlers

I have just finished a three month notice period and it really dragged particularly as I was not allowed to tell customers I was leaving until I had just four weeks to go.

My advice would be for the OP to document what he needs to do in terms of finishing work, handovers etc. then come up with a plan to do that as efficiently as possible and make the affected managers and colleagues lives as simple as possible.

If the relevant people see you making this effort they may be willing to be more flexible around home working and maybe also bring forward the leaving date.

If they don't respond positively then they cannot complain if you do the bare minimum and are disengaged from the business.

The stationary cupboard is work along with toilet rolls - of course you should go in. And stock up.....if you're leaving to go self employed your futures poo's will be costing you in time alone not even considering toilet roll costs.

software development project and needs to spend additional time handing it over to a wider team of developers, account managers, delivery leads etc (

Got to say for the most part this is much better done via teams, concept board, confluence and some walk throughs via teams that can be recorded. The sitting with each other idea never works. Only exception for this is some embedded and machine control development where you need to have over some hardware tip and tricks and even then the software part is best down remotely.

The stationary cupboard is work along with toilet rolls

This is a very good point.