[Closed] For those mourning the end of the classic LR Defender, take a shufti at this...

Ineos. Therefore no.

Nice.... I'd expect that to sell like hot cakes.

55 k so no.

£55k is actually a good price compared to the last model Land Rovers with certain specs going for £40K plus. This will be abetter care, better engine and so on and hopefully won't cram you up against the door (edit - just seen an interior screenshot and it is as bas as Defender).
It will sell very well I would think as a good rival for other £60K SUVs that people buy who want something a bit more rugged looking. Most customers are not going to be concerned with the ethics of the company that sells it.

I think there are plenty of people out there who won’t be bothered by the price, nor by the owner of the company.

But what it doesn’t have is provenance, as in it ain’t a Land Rover. Defenders are, shall we say, idiosyncratic vehicles. There’s a lot of things you’ll tolerate about Land Rovers because, well it’s a Land Rover, but I wouldn’t tolerate those things otherwise...

These are Land Rovers 😀

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Someone owns a new defender near me, I was passing judgement until I saw one. It’s like early Korean car design but worse

It's more of a Defender - G wagen - Steyr hybrid with a BMW engine

I think the start price is near £30-35k. I reckon farmers and people who work in rough locations, eg utilities will buy them

But what it doesn’t have is provenance, as in it ain’t a Land Rover. Defenders are, shall we say, idiosyncratic vehicles. There’s a lot of things you’ll tolerate about Land Rovers because, well it’s a Land Rover, but I wouldn’t tolerate those things otherwise…

Exactly why it has every chance of being a success I think. lots of people probably wanted a Defender but didn't want all the idiosyncricity that came with it. Basically a Defender like the old one that actually works could be a recipe for success...and undercutting the super expensive new one.

Provenance is irrelevant apart from a very small handful of hard core 'green liners' and enthusiasts who are not the target market for this. Everyone said similar things about the BMW Mini, but it's been a huge success for them and has zero provenance. The fact it only resembles the original externally. Probably what JLR should have done with it rather than the new Defender.

A short wheelbase version of that would be great. The market is just full of massive pick-ups now. Nothing short and powerful that can tow a decent amount.

I’m sure there will be an SWB - after all 90’s seem to be a lot more popular than 110’s (for personal users anyway)

I'll have a Mercedes G Wagon instead pls

I think the start price is near £30-35k

High 40s +vat.

They need to sell 25k a year to break even apparently, looking back at sales of the old Defender it never got above about 10k a year in the last 15-20 years. I really can't see how they expect to sell 25k of them.
They are actually stating it won't be great on-road as it will be off-roads focused, that will put a number of people off as even the last of the old defenders were better on road due to much stiffer roll bars etc, which compromised the off road abilities
There is a market for it but I think it is very small. Farmers etc have moved on, they all have pick-ups nowadays for most of their work and the ATV's etc if they need to go properly off-road, so that market has gone (Pick-ups are much cheaper than the Ineos).
Also, it doesn't have a badge that people aspire too, be that Merc G-Wagan, Land Rover etc.

Comments above about the BMW Mini are largely irrelevant here as that actually has the correct badge, the original new Mini was designed and developed by Rover so still had the 'DNA' of the original, the Ineos has as much relevancy to the old Defender as any other Chinese copy would. Also, it will depend on their plans for dealerships etc. to allow people to buy it and get back-up.

It's also 2 years away from actually happening and there will be a lot of stuff coming out between now and then.

Comments above about the BMW Mini are largely irrelevant here as that actually has the correct badge, the original new Mini was designed and developed by Rover so still had the ‘DNA’ of the original, the Ineos has as much relevancy to the old Defender as any other Chinese copy would.

The current Mini might have the correct badge, but otherwise it has about as much of the ‘DNA’ of the original as I have of a Neanderthal! It has as less relevancy to the old Mini than the INEOS does to the old defender, current Minis are huge, and have only a nodding acquaintance to the original Mini styling-wise.
The INEOS, on the other hand is virtually identical in both size and styling to the old Defender.

As an ex Defender owner who cashed in on the crazy prices of LR Defenders I think it's brilliant and could well be the first new I buy with my own money.

Defenders are hateful things, why would anyone want to copy them? Best thing work ever did was bin them for Rangers.

Was following a new defender on the M6 last week. It was next to a Ranger, the LR looked tiny in comparison. I think the Disco2 had a more usable load space with the seats down than a new defender. Compared to any crew cab pickup it was not even close. You can’t even get a std pallet in the back of the defender. Will be interested to see the Grenadier. For clarity I would love to love the defender, I do have a ranger and I would drive a grenadier in principle.
Also, was Greenlaning in the Ranger a few weeks ago (first time for me, was with my nephew who had just bought a 4x4 and wanted to give it a go) The Ranger is too wide for greenlaning. A Defender would be much better!

I get to drive Land Rovers in work. Let me tell you anyone who owns one and drives it mainly on tarmac is the biggest fashion victim you've ever met.

They're crap at everything except towing and some off-road. I've driven and preferred, L200s, Rangers, Navarras, Range Rovers and Izuzus. Everything else is better.

A panda would be even better...

They are a bit like t5s

Good in their day.bmost things have surpassed them

Yet folk still buy em.

10years with mine,

Just today it took a 8"4 trailer full of rubble off road into a private quarry. (You weren't towing that trailer with a Zoe or for that matter a panda...)

Why I have mine is your can nail it together with a turnip and it lives to see another day.

Land Wind just called, they want their big photocopier back.....

I had a 110 till I rolled it and destroyed it. I liked driving it, it was an interactive, engaging experience unlike most modern cars.

It was painful to drive a long way though - 14 hours from FofD to Ullapool twice a year was torture.

supernova
Member

I had a 110 till I rolled it and destroyed it. I liked driving it, it was an interactive, engaging experience unlike most modern cars.

It was painful to drive a long way though – 14 hours from FofD to Ullapool twice a year was torture.

But this is what was good about them, you could have bought it back from the insurance company and rebuilt it yourself if you had the space and tools.

Their adaptability also meant you could fit an overdrive, Discovery transfer box or 1.2 internals for better high speed work.

This kind of tinkerability to fine tune it to exactly what you want is completely missing from the new Defender. The aftermarket will jump on it but I don't think modifications will go much deeper than cosmetic.

Land Wind just called, they want their big photocopier back…..

Likes.

I used a 110 for a few years in the Outback. I always envied the guys with Toyota Land Cruisers - much better ride on rough dirt roads.

But when it came down to grinding along in the deep stuff where if you got stuck it was potentially fatal, I'd take the 110 any day.

Scrub that, actually I'd take a Suzuki Jimny.

I reckon farmers and people who work in rough locations, eg utilities will buy them

Farmers and utility cos have been using Japanese 4x4s for years - they didn't wait for the old defender to finish production to make that decision.

I've never really understood why LR watched that market get swallowed by a tide of Japanese pickups and didn't field anything of their own in that market.

Are INEOS hoping to pickup military contracts? Is there a gap in the market there now the defender has gone? Or are militaries driving something else now?

Haven't the armed forces dumped Land Rovers as they're useless when the enemy uses IEDs as their main weapon.

Yes, thin skinned vehicles aren't any kind of protection against IEDs. They are used for other more general, not potential combat, tasks and it would be for this that the INEOSmobile would be considered for, I assume.

I think there's a bunch of Hollywood action films waiting to buy 100s of pimped out black ones

Well that didn't last long

It's only about location. There's nothing there to imply that production isn't going ahead.

I think that's what he was getting at! Mr Brexit (who lives as a tax-exile in Monaco) is ready to quit the UK again at the drop of a hat to save a few quid making his Austrian engineered, German engined pastiche in France!

I think that’s what he was getting at

Yep

Will it mount the curbs round my local school though?

Scrub that, actually I’d take a Suzuki Jimny.

Yep.

New Ford Bronco looks great! Doubt we'll see official UK sales of them but just shows how wrong LR got the new Defender.

https://www.ford.com/suvs/bronco/2021/

I'm very disappointed with the trim level names for that Bronco

They don't follow the UK truck naming conventions.  They should be called Penetrator, Lady Pleasurer, Bigus Dickus, Annihilator etc.

Let's face it the owners will be rotund white single men in their 50s impressing rotund white single men in their 50s down the Red Lion.

Yep, the new Bronco looks way better than new Defender and at US prices can be had for $30K. Saw a new Defender driving along the road the other day and was surprised how dull it was in the flesh.
I think the Bronco may be pretty big though and a bit oversized for UK but if they sold them for £30K I think they would have trouble supplying them all.

New Ford Bronco looks great!

I reminds me of the Lada Niva 🙂

I reminds me of the Lada Niva

Now there was a great off roader

Have we done "Team Ineos" being rebranded as "Grenadiers"?

I reminds me of the Lada Niva

Now there was a great off roader

did you ever drive one ? I had the misfortune when i worked in turkmenistan , I was curious and one of our employees had one.

it was an experiance - and thats coming from a 1980s - LR90 driver.

for Soviet trucks id rather the UAZ 469

if it wasnt for being hammered by emissions id like a UAZ 452 for a camper conversion - Would be a good fun candidate for an electric conversion ....

I’m very disappointed with the trim level names for that Bronco

I dunno, as a low tier trim level Big Bend does an excellent job of conveying its a bit shite.

They'll be a Big Bend Raptorsaurusinnator soon