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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy89yddgg7yo
Could there be hope that better rights of way access can also be considered?
After living in Scotland for nearly two years now, I find it comical when I come back to England that so much land is off limits, especially rivers when I want to use my kayak. It’s a joke, and I doubt this Government will do anything about it, they have a poor record so far, their majority is big enough to do whatever they want, yet they wont do anything that is slightly likely to annoy the Tories, so we’ll be stuck with the pathetic limits on where we can go for the next 25+ years.
Predictable response from the NFU and CLA
“This is a backward step and is the latest attack on the countryside and farmers.”
And Slow Ways advocating for access along field margins to help rural mobility
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/dec/26/call-for-right-to-roam-on-edges-of-private-farmland-england-walking
I doubt this Government will do anything about it, they have a poor record so far,
It is important but it's not really a priority given how messed up the country is post Tory-induced Brexit reality
Also remember millions of people don't use the countryside as it involves exercise and there's no WiFi or EastEnders so they don't understand the issue
Excellent unlimited procrastination time!
Don't you know, the world is owned by the billionaires now. They own the press too. So we only get what they want. And they don't want us on their land.
Existing footpaths/bridleways should all be shown on OS maps, however I don't see much point in recording new ones when half the existing paths around where I live are closed/overgrown/impassable. I'm sick of following a marked path (even Local Authority marked signs!) only to come to a halt at a fence, tree plantation or simply a mass of undergrowth and brambles.
Oh I know a land owner who has just his cornflakes pissed.
Sounds painful.
And now Labour attack our right to set dogs on wild anmials which accidently cross our scent trail.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mrj3r30nno
But the countryside alliance say - the issue of trail hunting is irrelevant to most people, and it would be extraordinary for Labour to focus on this given the poor state of its relationship with rural communities.
The problem is many farmers are fed up with the public leaving litter, letting their dogs roam free in livestock fields and leaving important gates open, often deviating from the actual footpath/bridleway, especially since 2020.
On the whole something has to change so that we can use all the public 'rights of way' that are open to us. It's so important to be able to be out in these green spaces more than ever.
Also remember millions of people don’t use the countryside as it involves exercise and there’s no WiFi or EastEnders so they don’t understand the issue
True, but a powerful IMO argument to increase access. How can people care about or value something they never get to experience?
Existing footpaths/bridleways should all be shown on OS maps
Should being the operative word - local council website for the definitive map.
Would be nice if we could have a thread on this subject without the Scottish residents feeling the need to gloat, we all know you've got the right to roam in your frozen wasteland..
Don't think we are gloating, just flagging the obvious that despite all the landowners protesting about this, in general, it seems to work. There are spots where it doesn't work as well, but those are a small amount.
If enough people created a groundswell, it might help change this and the Scottish way is one option that does show it can work...
The problem is many farmers are fed up with the public leaving litter, letting their dogs roam free in livestock fields and leaving important gates open, often deviating from the actual footpath/bridleway, especially since 2020
I'm not convinced "responsible access" would make all that much difference. It's not an automatic flood gate of everyone suddenly accessing everything everywhere. Most of the "nice bits" already have access routes, even away from high ground.
You might have a few problems on large private Capability Brown type estate grounds. But working farmland, is, by and large, pretty f***ing boring to your average Joe. A field edge in rural Northamptonshire is not going to attract a relentless stream of people. Although I'd guess without education there would bea an uptick of people wandering around at first.
The problem is many farmers are fed up with the public leaving litter, letting their dogs roam free in livestock fields and leaving important gates open, often deviating from the actual footpath/bridleway, especially since 2020.
So, spread the load.
On the whole something has to change so that we can use all the public ‘rights of way’ that are open to us.
Well, you could get rid of the current "rights of way" system.
Well, you could get rid of the current “rights of way” system.
Except that won't actually help with problem described, in fact it'll actually make it worse.
I'd still rather have more open access, though
I think what Scotroutes means is get rid of the whole system of rights of way and instead have a presumption of access
In england I find this just weird that there are paths and tracks you cannot ride on or in some cases even walk on
Just remember tho that the scottish system is NOT an absolute right. Its a qualified right and the qualification is following the access code
correct me if I am wrong scotroutes 🙂
Would it be fair to say in Scotland the presumption is free access with specified exceptions whereas in Egland it is the other way round. No access with specified exceptions.
Seems to work perfectly well almost all the time up here. Seems a reasonabl idea. You own the land not the access. Just like owning land doesn't usually give you mineral rights or airspace rights.
Not quite IMO - its not "free" access - you have to behave within the scope of the access code / LRA. You only have the right of access so long as you follow this. Its a qualified right of access.
In Scotland, you can go on to most land to enjoy the outdoors – as long as you behave responsibly. This is known as Scottish access rights and is different to the position in England and Wales. When you are enjoying the outdoors, you must follow the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.
https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/cycling
Seems to work perfectly well almost all the time up here. Seems a reasonabl idea. You own the land not the access. Just like owning land doesn’t usually give you mineral rights or airspace rights.
it does MOSTLY work, but then it mostly worked before it was codified too. The areas where there are problems are particular honeypots, especially those close to major populations. Most land managers have no real tools to help them “enforce” responsible access.
but if you want to get farmers to do something positive about access it seems that linking it to tax incentives could be the solution! Enable them to (irrevocably) declare land “access land” to get a discount on inheritance tax!
Where is “the map” that records footpaths? How do I know if a path I use is recorded or forgotten.
Just Google Definitive Map and your local council area, or search their website.
I used to occasionally ride what I thought was a waymarked walk for visitors to a vineyard. One day I noticed a bridleway finger post hidden in the undergrowth. Checked the definitive map and it was a bridleway that just had additional vineyard walk signs on it.
It wasn't on the mapping layers for modern mapping apps (including OSM) so I was able up create an account and add it. Might be on the old school OS maps but I've not checked. After that I went on a bit of an OSM spree for my area, ensuring all the bridleways had bike and horse rights ticked and removing phantom locked gate markers, both of which break the auto routing function on most mapping apps.
There was also a bit of byway missing near me that the rights of way officer refused to look at as it was a historic dispute between landowner and council since the 50s.(Objections not responded to when the definitive map was drawn up or something)
It was impassible so I added it to OSM with a little gap and called it disputed, then I could see on the heatmap people were trying to use it and getting lost in an adjacent field so went back on OSM and linked it using an appropriately named unofficial diversion around a field edge. A while later could see the heatmap showing the diversion in use and I think the landowner then gave in and cleared the impassable thicket as people were traipsing around his field.
This summer I noticed it's now well trodden on the ground and you can ride the full length of the byway, as recorded on the definitive map :). I need to nip back and check it's still open and then tidy it up on OSM.
My work here is done 🙂
but if you want to get farmers to do something positive about access it seems that linking it to tax incentives could be the solution! Enable them to (irrevocably) declare land “access land” to get a discount on inheritance tax!
We already do to an extent but then end up with the stupid situation where the Devonshire estate has huge sections of open access land for walkers, and may be getting tax subsidies for permissive bridleways but has no need to tell us where they actually are.
Local estate to me gets an inheritance tax break in return for encouraging public enjoyment of the estate and funding a free car park for the attached village. Somehow they still managed to sneak in ANPR ticketing on a previously free car park on the South Downs, closing off informal paths, and putting private signs on just about every field entrance though ?
we all need to remember the reason the land is in private hands is because it was stolen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclosure_acts
And Slow Ways advocating for access along field margins to help rural mobility
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/dec/26/call-for-right-to-roam-on-edges-of-private-farmland-england-walking/blockquote >
Ha! I’ve been doing that for decades! I used to go for walks across the fields, many of which are now big housing estates, with my dad, who grew up out in the countryside, so I learned a lot from him about nature, and we never used footpaths, because the few that existed didn’t go where we wanted to go, so we always followed field edges and boundaries. He taught me to never walk through crops, always around the edge, and always close gates.Why do we need to provide financial incentives to do the right thing? It’s like folk demanding “community benefit” money before they’ll allow wind farms to be built.
Incentives are preferable to legal action, which is never a good thing for encouraging good behaviour. Equally, though, townies wandering around the countryside being assholes, leaving dogshit in plastic bags everywhere, letting dogs off leads allowing them to shit in crop fields and chase livestock. And I’ve seen those things happen regularly. Also leaving piles of trash in fields where livestock grazes - again, a regular occurrence in a field next to the river in Lacock opposite side to the Abbey; plastic bottles, bags, tins, etc.
This behaviour doesn’t really encourage landowners to allow thoughtless idiots access to their property, which I’m sure most will understand.