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You can like both. I missed most of the England game because I watched Ireland v South Africa.
Half my “problem” with football is the fans, their tribalism and their antics
The tribalism and antics is precisely why I absolutely love it!
All this ‘we can all have a pint together afterwards’ bollocks with the rugby? **** that! I want venomous hatred and mutual abuse ?
Even then, it’s being there or listening to it
To a non-sportsball watcher that's even more weird. What do you get from that?
"Ooh, did you hear in the 27th minute, when Jones passed the ball to Smith, and then back to Jones? We'll never hear the likes of that again, amazing stuff." It's like watching a rock concert on mute.
I do think these threads are reverse snobbery. Oh look at me, I don’t like football and all these people talk to me about it.
Honestly, I don't disagree, I find threads created to discuss things people don't like to be a bit odd. Though asking "is it just me" or "am I missing something here" on the other hand seems reasonable enough.
I think it's more of a problem when people wade in purely to derail conversations. Like, I'd never comment on a football thread because I simply don't care. A thread going "it's a bit pants" is my wheelhouse; actual fans can either explain why they think it's not pants and perhaps educate the OP, or ignore it and go to the multitude of other "yay football" forums/media.
But Cougar, the question “is it just me” or “what am I missing” is purely a smoke screen. No one who asks this question actually wants to be be educated or told why other people enjoy it. They want another user to join in sharing their loathing of people who enjoy things they don’t.
When I see a score like 6-0 I assume that's the judges score for artistic style in diving 😉
Or for feigning near fatal injury if they get tripped up or brushed by an opponent 😉
Flatmate used to go on and on and on and on and on and ariston and on... about "his" team (on the opposite side of the country). Tried to explain why a nil-nil match was so exciting, and the whole point of it was 90 minutes of controlling possession. Which is weird, cos the point of the game when we were forced to play it in PE lessons was to score goals. To me that's like TdF, but they all just roll over the line at the end in a bunch with no sprints and get the same time.
Did watch one match for real once. We left 10 min before the end to avoid the mad crush and to get the car before the traffic got too bad. Never watched a match since. "pants" would be the word I'd use to describe it.
^ 🙂 🙂
International football has become a different animal to club football (especially the Premier League), it's not about entertaining, it's about not embarrassing your country and scraping a result where you can. And much as everyone seems to love to hate Southgate, he's quite good at it.
But Cougar, the question “is it just me” or “what am I missing” is purely a smoke screen. No one who asks this question actually wants to be be educated or told why other people enjoy it. They want another user to join in sharing their loathing of people who enjoy things they don’t.
Perhaps. Maybe that is the point.
But so what? Is there harm in a pub advertising itself as "football-free" as an antidote to those who don't buy into the national obsession? Is there harm in a thread where football-hating curmudgeons can talk about why they dislike football and how much of a pain in the arse it is to avoid it?
I'm the world's worst for wading in when something is objectively wrong, I can't help myself. If something is subjectively wrong then perhaps that's an opening for discussion. And if something is merely opinion then, well...
As for tribalism in football, people become incredibly tribal over all sorts including: music, fashion, political views, the school you went too and even what size of track is best for model railways ?
The best description of football I've heard is, it is like pantomime.
Where's I think cycle racing (especially the TDF) is more like a soap opera at times.
A knowledge of the previous history in anything is important in understanding what is going on and why something that seems so minor can actually have so much significance.
Imagine watching Have I Got News For You, without actually having any knowledge of what has actually happened in the news recently, it wouldn't make much sense.
What exactly is creepy or cult-like? What behaviour do you see to come to this absurd opinion?
Cherry-picking from Wikipedia, substitute "leader" for "team":
A cult is a group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader, who tightly controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered deviant (outside the norms of society).[1] It is in some contexts a pejorative term, also used for a new religious movement or other social group which is defined by its unusual religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs and rituals,[2] or its common interest in a particular person, object, or goal. This sense of the term is weakly defined – having divergent definitions both in popular culture and academia – and has also been an ongoing source of contention among scholars across several fields of study.[3][4]: 348–356
An older sense of the word, which is not pejorative, involves a set of religious devotional practices that is conventional within its culture, is related to a particular figure, and is frequently associated with a particular place.[5] References to the imperial cult of ancient Rome, for example, use the word in this sense. A derived sense of "excessive devotion" arose in the 19th century.[i]
(Ooh, the editor is back!)
But Cougar, the question “is it just me” or “what am I missing” is purely a smoke screen. No one who asks this question actually wants to be be educated or told why other people enjoy it. They want another user to join in sharing their loathing of people who enjoy things they don’t.
And so what if it is? Nobody is forcing you to join in just as nobody forces me to comment on football or TDF threads. If you don't like the thread there are plenty more to choose from.
I live and work in Liverpool. Football is a big thing in Liverpool.
Whoop-de-****ing-doop, would you like a medal? Football is a big thing most places which is the entire crux of this thread. Some places the team you support is defined by your religion and by extension what colours grown men refuse to wear, drive or whatever. It's ****ing stupid and honestly something I want no part in. It gets very boring very very quickly when people assume your team or religion based on what colour of t-shirt you happen to be wearing.
What I'm saying is, you might equally not enjoy it but I doubt you've endured the same sectarian shite I have.
The (football hater) doth protest too much, methinks. I as a football fan do not care if you don't understand the passion.
can you name another where DV rates increase after a game?
That’s often stated, have you actually read any articles behind the stats?
Do you know what, if this thread was called “football haters - assemble!”, and the OP was just “I don’t understand football and I’m sick of it”, I’d be fine with it and wouldnt have responded. But there seems to be a question here requesting an answer, and the answer is:
No, football is not pants. It’s the most accessible and most played sport globally. It requires skill and athleticism but notably doesn’t necessarily reward specific physical attributes and mostly rewards a more cohesive team over a group of individuals with higher skills or fitness that don’t know each other. At lower levels different genders and ages can play it together and have a huge amount of fun. At the highest level the speed of thought, tactical awareness and fitness come together to create a high speed game of chess, where it’s easy to forget how uncontrollable a highly pressurised pigs bladder can be when it’s pinged at you at an awkward height.
There are over 5 billion football fans in the world. Many of them are men, and history tells us most men are ****s, therefore most football fans are utterly obnoxious. Due to its popularity the business of football is incredibly valuable, toxic, destructive and very interesting to those that like that sort of thing. Professional footballers get paid a lot of money, and that makes them very odd individuals that most right thinking people find distasteful. But the combination of skill, randomness (due to the high pressure pigs bladder), high stakes, weird fans, even weirder players and really very disturbing leaders of the sport makes for a compelling, highly entertaining and very often hilarious spectacle. In a world where men find it very hard to bond with other men, football can be a shortcut to important conversations, laughter, and friendship.
Many folk don’t like football, and that’s fine. It’s a bloody ridiculous kids sport, you might as well say you like bicycling.
As for tribalism in football, people become incredibly tribal over all sorts including: music, fashion, political views, the school you went too and even what size of track is best for model railways ?
Yup.
And then we cleared puberty. 🙂
The (football hater) doth protest too much, methinks. I as a football fan do not care if you don’t understand the passion.
You don't care sufficiently to dive into a "football is pants" thread to declare to the world how much you don't care. Got it.
Cougar – so nothing you’ve copied and pasted suggests supporting football is creepy or cult-like – I’m not sure if you are for or against supporting football/sports in general.
The cult bit was really "excessive devotion," the rest was me being a nob. 🙂
I genuinely don't understand what you're not sure about, unless that's sarcasm. I have no interest - and I've tried, honest, I've been to games - and I despise the rabid obsession it generates.
You can't get away from it, sports news on the radio is "football football football football football football cricket football football football" - what's the score in yesterday's Manchester Storm / Sheffield Steelers game? I've had to abandon Twitter tonight because despite my previously championed careful curation fully half of my feed at least is people ****ing on about football. It is relentless.
https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2022/11/world-cup-women-prepare-for-increased-domestic-abuse/
@theotherjonv here's some actual academic research (linked)
On a purely rhetorical front, what is this football thing of which you speak?
Nothing to me, that's what.
For the ‘I just don’t get it’ middle class bedwetters, it’s worth watching this. It might explain in some small way what it means to us. I grew up in the 80’s and this was our culture and you can sneer at it all you like but it’s ours and it really matters to us. Still does. You either get it or you don’t. Simple as that.
I suspected you'd say that. It's frequently cited as fact without anyone ever looking beyond the headline, mainly because it matches the trope being pushed, that football fans are neanderthal wife beaters.
It is a correlation, not a causation.
- Papers by researchers at Strathclyde and LSE agree that football doesn't cause domestic violence, and in fact DV falls during major games.
- It rises AFTER, but that isn't because of the football itself, it's because of alcohol consumption. There is no rise in DV during/after major matches in non drinkers and if football was the cause then there would be.
- The increase in DV is the same as the increase in other alcohol related crime, crime goes up not DV specifically.
- And there's virtually no DV by football fans that isn't already there - football fans don't become wife beaters because the football's on; wife beaters are likely to be more active after the football has been on (because they're more likely to have had a few beers while watching the game)
That's not to deny that the correlation is there, or that DV is a horrible and significant crime, but the cause is alcohol. Football is often related to having a few beers but that is the link that needs breaking, not the football itself.
FWIW and to specifically answer your question; there's not a lot of research into other sports, to be able to point at other correlation stats, but anywhere where having a few beers is part of the watching / matchday experience is likely to have similar correlation. One that does exist though is american football, where DV increases after games in a similar way.
Repeat after me - football watching does not cause an increase in DV.
It really is a great game - it takes very little to be able to play it.
I've seen balls cobbled together with god-knows-what held together with string and elastic bands, on scrubland with goats on, all over the World, and with those jumpers for goalposts...
Thing is, almost everyone who watches football has played it at some level, even if that level was the school playground 40 years ago, and therefore has at least some understanding of what makes practitioners of it at the highest level so good.
And when played at the highest of its heights it can be genuinely sublime.
It can, of course, also be quite dreadful, but can't most things?
Repeat after me – football watching does not cause an increase in DV.
You're absolutely correct. I've had this exact same conversation multiple times in the context of video games.
Apologies for missing it but I don't know you're replying to. SQ's link?
Expect the exceptions. This paper seems to infer there is correlation between matches, specifically, old firm matches, and domestic violence. They compare across weekends and other matches and old firm games seem to show an increase. Very specific I know but enough to muddy the waters around the argument.
https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/4063
You'd find it a hard argument to say that factors such as alcohol consumption are significantly higher from one weekend to another.
The behaviour of some football fans is downright creepy and cult like.
Yeah, I mean throwing piss at competitors and getting in their way on gruelling climbs is perfectly normal right?
Yes, question was posed "can you name another where DV rates increase after a game", I said show me the data and Squirrelking posted that link.
The link I meant to post didn't come through, here's the evidence I refer to also with links
https://www.bi.team/blogs/what-is-the-relationship-between-domestic-abuse-and-football/
Expect the exceptions. This paper seems to infer there is correlation between matches, specifically, old firm matches, and domestic violence.
Interesting that one, I have a theory. As noted in the review I link above
Ivandić et al. have discovered that the time a match is played can have a significant impact on domestic violence rates. Specifically, they found that matches with early kick-offs (ie before 7pm) have much higher levels of violence compared to late kick-offs (ie after 7pm). They hypothesise this increase is primarily driven by the fact that an earlier kick-off allows for longer alcohol consumption after the match has finished.
When do Old Firm games kick off?
(semi rhetorical; I know - OF games are typically scheduled for lunchtime Sunday specifically to avoid fans getting lashed up BEFORE the game making them easier to police. Potentially with an unintended consequence. There was a call to trial midweek evening games - reduced boozing time after work / have to get up for work the next day)
Is this a good time to bring up tennis?
I understand the rules, tactics blah blah blah. I used to box and do martial arts, I ride bikes and used to climb. Don’t watch any of them and still understand them. Football isn’t special in that regard. It’s a relatively simple game. Like most, it takes a hell of a lot of skill to master.
You’ve answered why football is so popular yourself. The barrier to entry is literally zero, you could kick a can if you wanted. Every other sport mentioned has a significant cost barrier for the vast majority of the planet. Anyone can kick a can but aren’t able to master the skills. It’s why it’s so relatable and popular.
Also to add further / clarify
Football is often related to having a few beers but that is the link that needs breaking, not the football itself.
(my own quote)
Britain is a big football nation, culturally a few beers at the football with your mates after a hard week at work is quite ingrained. And our relationship with alcohol is quite toxic, the drinking to excess, pissed up Brits abroad, etc.
Football does make emotions run high. I've never beaten my wife or kids, or been involved in football violence for that matter, even though I used to drink heavily, borderline high functioning alc. I thankfully stopped 20-odd years ago after an incident that made me realise what I was doing (drinking I mean, not wifebeating. I never stopped that*)
But i still get really (angry / cross / sad - not sure, mix of all three) if my team plays badly and loses. I can be on cloud nine if we play well and win. I know admitting that is weird, and probably a character flaw of some point, but after 50-odd years of the game I still can't argue myself out of the Shankly quote. IF my response to either elation or despair is alcohol consumption however..... there's clearly a link between alcohol consumption and DV (almost a trope in itself - how many tales of 'My Dad was lovely except when he'd had a drink, then he'd fly into a rage and that's when we kids knew to make ourselves scarce until he'd sobered up....')
So I'm sort of arguing myself now (stick with me) - football does cause emotion, couple that to our inability to drink like sensible adults, and that's why there's a correlation. Football's not totally off the hook, but as per earlier post if it was genuinely a football thing, teetotal fans would be going home and hitting their partners just the same.
(equally, what else increases alcohol consumption and needs banning....I'm going for summer bank holidays and sunny barbecues. If I had time I'd try to find a correlation between them and DV to justify my call)
* And finally - in case lost in slightly flippant asides - DV is not a laughing matter, I abhor and condemn in the strongest terms. I haven't stopped wifebeating because you can't stop doing something you never did.
For the ‘I just don’t get it’ middle class bedwetters, it’s worth…
Why on earth do you think anyone who you refer to like that would go on to take any advice from you?
If you want people to understand - and I mean really want people to understand - your choice of language is doing you no favours. I’d have thought you of all folks would understand a little about taking to people with a different point of view to you.
I 100% get why it is popular. What I don’t get is the need for fans to incessantly talk about it and bring it up in conversation with people who don’t have any interest in it. Three times this last week already. It is the only sport it happens with and you get weird reactions from some for not liking it. Also seeing fully functional adults getting upset because somebody else did badly in a game is bizarre. They’re not even playing! You have to tiptoe around some senior people at my work if their team plays badly and certain colours are pretty much banned from the office. That’s not normal behaviour.
I find following the results more interesting than the game itself. I've not watched a single game of the euros, it's just dull.
"I 100% get why it is popular. What I don’t get is the need for fans to incessantly talk about it and bring it up in conversation with people who don’t have any interest in it"*
A partial explanation perhaps. One that was put to me on here when I started a similar thread a few years ago (if the search function worked I'd link to it). Men sometimes do this, not necessarily because they want it to lead to a deep conversation about tactics or team allegiances, but because they are just trying to make conversation. It's assumed to be a safe opening gambit as a topic, like the weather. It's a compliment perhaps? They want a human interaction, a connection and don't really know how else to initiate it, whether due to social awkwardness or just being crap at small talk. As men we are not the best at talking at the best of times.
Now I write this as someone with little interest in football, who previously got a bit miffed at the assumption I must have, simply because I was male. But the above when put to me did make me rethink it a little, and perhaps try not to be so brusque in pointing out my lack of interest. A stranger wanting to exchange a few words and have a human interaction is a positive thing and I try a little harder now.
*Where has the quote function gone?
Sorry, I don't follow. No, I have a TV. I just dont find watching football interesting but I am interested in the result. I will talk about it with friends, what results mean. but don't like watching it.
@squirelking I don’t think this thread needs to be about sectarian issues. I completely understand the link and don’t disagree how this is wrong. Feel free to give me another whoop de du, but I was born to a catholic mum from Belfast and a Welsh protestant father who was a former soldier (parachute regiment), we lived in Belfast before we were forced to leave and move to Liverpool in the late 1970’s. Probably like a lot of people from Belfast, Glasgow, Liverpool, I could write a book on the sectarian issues that I have seen and how it has shaped my entire life)
My statement about living in Liverpool and not particularly liking football was to highlight that in a football mad city I am one of the rare ones who has no interest. But so what if I get asked about it? What does it really matter? Just politely say so. Personally if a work colleague wanted to talk to me about his passion, I’ll listen. It doesn’t matter what that passion is or how much interest I have in it.
When the ashes is on people talk about cricket. My father in law talks about it incessantly. Cricket bores the pants of me, but I’ll listen.
The sectarian issues being linked to football I do 100% agree is wrong. Similar to how I also feel about religion. But I don’t think this thread is discussing that. This thread originated with the OP asking why football is so popular. He doesn’t like it and wants to know if it is just him. However there is no interest to try to understand why it is popular (globally) and no interest to have an open discussion on the reasons.
To a non-sportsball watcher that’s even more weird. What do you get from that?
“Ooh, did you hear in the 27th minute, when Jones passed the ball to Smith, and then back to Jones? We’ll never hear the likes of that again, amazing stuff.” It’s like watching a rock concert on mute.
My comment was about cricket not football. And whilst yes, superficially from the outside it must seem weird but Test Match Special is imo a special case. It's so much more than listening to the commentary of a bloke throwing a ball and another bloke attempting to hit it with a stick. For context, my wife who has zero interest in cricket likes having it on in the background - actually asks me when the next test match starts and is disappointed when a match is finished inside 5 days. Apart from when Boycott was on obviously. Less than 10 days to the WI series - happy days.
Thinking about it - audio commentary is about my threshold for following someone else doing a sport unless you are there in person. You can get on with other stuff at the same time then - on its own it's not enough to preoccupy me.
Being at a sporting event is different though. Can't stand watching downhill on telly/computer but being at Fort Bill is awesome. Same for triathlon, kayak racing etc etc. I know the sports well which helps but are dreadful watching on telly but the atmosphere and seeing it in person is brilliant. And of course TdF in person is an atmosphere you could not help getting sucked into. I got dragged to watch golf at the open once and even liked that. Golf- the most tedious pastime in the world turned out to be a brilliant day out! There is no way I'd consider watching it on the telly. The only sport I detested as much in real life as I had on telly was ice hockey. And I've not been to a basketball ball match or baseball - I suspect I'd not enjoy either of those too. That might be as much about not really appreciating the nuance. I just found ice hockey tediously repetitive. I think I actually managed to doze off at one point.
I'm a Villa season ticket holder and stand in the Holte end*. Fantastic, exciting and passionate football. I can't bring myself to watch international games and an left wondering what on earth the sudden influx of "fans" must make of this dreadful boring spectacle.
*Aston Villa, the Holte is the massive stand behind the goal and while it's an all seater end, Nobody but nobody ever sits. Ok, a few did last season once when we were 5-1 up and it was starting to get a bit dull.
Admittedly last season was a bit special and I doubt we'll ever see such excitement again.
What I don’t get is the need for fans to incessantly talk about it and bring it up in conversation with people who don’t have any interest in it.
I just say "sorry, I think football is shit" which seems to work. I am pretty good at killing conversations dead!
The behaviour of some football fans is downright creepy and cult like.
What exactly is creepy or cult-like? What behaviour do you see to come to this absurd opinion?
When people refer to the team in the first/second person, rather than the third...
"We did really well tonight with a flat pack 4"
"We've got you next weekend in the league...."
AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGJHHHJ! NOOOOOOOOO
I used to go to matches but the diving and attacking refs just to the point it ruined my enjoyment so I stopped going.
Diving needs to be dealt with as does arguing with refs
I'm pretty agnostic in that I don't really watch any sport. I do have friends who seem to watch it (on TV mostly) almost non-stop). If I have one particular bugbear then it's folk who won't socialise in other ways (riding, eating, drinking etc).because there's some event on that they'd rather stay home to watch.
I just say “sorry, I think football is shit” which seems to work. I am pretty good at killing conversations dead!
You could always just say you have no interest rather than saying it's shit. When people talk incessantly about car racing or golf I just say I've no interest.
I just say “sorry, I think football is shit” which seems to work. I am pretty good at killing conversations dead!
Yeah I usually just say similar stated as matter of fact as if there's no universe in which I'm any different! Definitely now in late forties as compared with ie twenties reaction seems more accepting. Probably think I'm a lost cause or something. "don't waste your time on this one!"
@theotherjonv your point would have merit if I'd claimed football was the exclusive cause. But I didn't. All I said was that DV rates go up after a game.
I've heard folk on the floor above (at work) kicking chairs across their office when a game is on, I know for a fact they were sober at the time and are otherwise not the emotional type. If they were the type to be violent with someone else then I wouldn't be surprised if that was a trigger.
Rather than trying to pick my question apart could you have a stab at answering it, what other sport sees DV rates to go up afterwards? Since you think alcohol is a major factor I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding examples from rugby, cricket and bowls where alcohol consumption in the grounds is allowed.
For the ‘I just don’t get it’ middle class bedwetters
Says the man-child that can't take any criticism of the things he likes without resorting to playground insults.
what other sport sees DV rates to go up afterwards?
Did you read the article? It cited American football and said that more research was needed.
Football is something where any kid can dream of becoming a hero one day and there's plenty of role models for them from all backgrounds. For that I think it's great.
The drunk chanting gangs of blokes can do one (lived rear a football ground once, then used to use the train past Wembley a lot). And all the punditry is pretty dull tbh.
Tbh I don't find it any more or less interesting to watch than any other ball sports, can be worth watching or can be dull as anything. I just can't be arsed with football culture as a whole so have never taken any interest in the game itself. Well, not since school days anyway. England games are only notable for the opportunity to ride quieter roads..
Says the man-child that can’t take any criticism of the things he likes without resorting to playground insults
The reason these (regular) threads trigger me, and others, so much as it does is because the criticism of football (as is the case with many posters here) comes down to one thing and one thing only….
Snobbery
Pure and simple
@w00dster that's fair and sorry for making assumptions about your background. The sectarian thing is why I have such an aversion to the sport though, it goes hand in hand with a whole culture I want nothing to do with. And yes, I realise there's more to football than the old firm and their east coast equivalent but its so ingrained at this point that I'm not going to change.
Thankfully I have changed jobs and moved to a more professional level where people are happy to accept I'm not interested and only talk about it in general (what did you do at the weekend) terms. I can't remember the last time a colleague told me they would be happy running over cyclists because they shouldn't be on the road either or asked me about any of my other "gay/wee faggot" hobbies.
The reason these (regular) threads trigger me, and others, so much as it does is because the criticism of football (as is the case with many posters here) comes down to one thing and one thing only….
Snobbery
Pure and simple
@binners see my post above. How would you feel in my position? I'm happy to live and let live, it's just cathartic to have a moan is all. I'm aware that the majority of people aren't as I describe but I've had enough of those that are. How many of us have similarly jumped into to Euros thread to belittle and insult those interested in the game? Maybe reflect on that before flinging insults and accusations.
Snobbery
Pure and simple
Sorry Binners but that is bollocks. I agree with you on most things (especially baked goods) but not this. No snobbery on my behalf. Christ, I grew up on a Yorkshire council estate with a labourer for a father and a miner for a stepdad. No middle class snobbery here. I just don’t like watching any sports, will play any, and find football in particular to have a large percentage (in my experience) of weird fans. Grown men crying, acting like children when a team loses, talking about games as if they’re taking part, making assumptions based on others not following it etc.
It’s even bad at a kids level. Walked and rode by local games and the behaviour of some of the parents is pathetic to say the least. Not like that at the kids basketball and cricket games I’ve been to.
Snobbery
Pure and simple
Shite.
Pure and simple.
Rather than trying to pick my question apart could you have a stab at answering it, what other sport sees DV rates to go up afterwards?
I did. When I've gone to the trouble of answering perhaps you'd have a stab at reading it?
I didn't try to pick your question apart; I thought it was a reasonable and balanced review of the actual data behind the trope. You might not have said in actual words, but to me the question was a pretty clear insinuation of it.
your point would have merit if I’d claimed football was the exclusive cause.
It's not the cause, exclusive or otherwise. There's a correlation.
Sorry Binners but that is bollocks
I’m not accusing all critics of it, but have a read back over this thread. There’s plenty of it on display, particularly by those who site rugby as a comparison
The undercurrent is clear. Look at those frightful people with their replica shirts, their tattoos and their fizzy lager, watching their big tellies and smoking. Can they not buy themselves some nice stonewashed denim and drink a nice craft IPA?
I suppose I’m just as guilty of reverse snobbery, because when I think of Rugby I think of this, but the implied superiority really irritates me. That’s tribalism for you 😉
https://Twitter.com/conor1971/status/1753442058398761411?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
That picture is frightening ? are you sure it isn’t a chelsea boot convention?
I wouldn't bother anymore Binners the thread title itself is incendiary, imagine if PistonHeads had a thread ‘Mountain Biking – a bit pants really, isn't it’ that would wind a few people here up and I have enough mates who certainly think cyclists are a nuisance and it’s a child’s hobby. You cannot make someone like a passion.
Binners - your caricature of rugby as middle class is pretty regionalised. Putting league to one side* (as it's obviously bollox there), try living in Wales. I did my primary school years in Wales in the late 70s and early 80s. Union was (and I think still is) the life blood of communities, as classless as pretty much any sport I could imagine, both to watch and play. I accept that's not the case throughout the UK but it's disingenuous to portray it as exclusively red trousered.
*I'd say league fans are pretty much the prototype for all sports to aspire to, as as how to behave, support and banter.
Anyway, nearly time for the F1, live on Channel 4.
@convert - my hatred of Rugby (and believe me, i HATE rugby!) is deep-seated and personal and ironically I blame the Welsh. When I was at school our PE teacher was a Welsh, rugby-obsessed psycopath - think the Brian Glover charachter in Kes if he'd have been from Merthyr Tydfil - who had us playing Rugby every week, regardless of the weather.
One week some knuckle-dragging neanderthal tackled me and before I'd had opportunity to desperately get rid of the egg, his full body weight landed on my leg, I heard it snap even before I felt it.
In hospital, as I surveyed the x-ray of the splintered wreckage of my knee, the surgeon said 'well that’s your rugby career over'. It was the happiest day of my life 🙂
Just to make sure I'm answering the question fully
Since you think alcohol is a major factor
Not me, that's what the reports say
I’m sure you’ll have no trouble finding examples from rugby, cricket and bowls where alcohol consumption in the grounds is allowed.
No, I can't find reports or studies where none exist. But I'd reflect that looking at actual attendances, football with about 1m spectators has an order of magnitude more spectators as rugby on an average fixture weekend, hard to tell for cricket as there are far more days with cricket on but I found data that total attendance in England in 2022 was 2.3m so football covers that in about 2 weeks, and there's about 45 weeks in the football season, so about 20x the rate (also note that's cricket's total including internationals, the football data is for an average league weekend)
I can't find data for bowls but suspect it's not that high 😉
And then there are far more TV watchers, at home with mates, at the pub, in fan parks, etc.
Like I say i can't find the data but given football is orders of magnitude more popular than the others, likely that on a like for like basis then incidents of DV will also be orders of magnitude higher and worth doing a study on.
And yes, I'll admit that as the 'working class' national sport, and our national obsession with getting mullered, that I suspect toxic drunkenness is worse at football than at other sports even on a per capita basis. But the issue isn't football per se (again, if it was you'd expect teetotal fans to be beating the partners every time their team loses) - it's alcohol.
"Anyway, nearly time for the F1, live on Channel 4."
oh good, off out on the bike then.
Not so sure footy is just working class as the next King of Britannia is a big fan
As is the new PM. He’s a lifelong Gooner.
So at least now Engerland are through we’ll be spared the toe-curling sight of Boris in a box fresh Engerland kit, or Dave trying to remember if he supported Villa or West Ham (same colour shirts, so an easy mistake to make) or Rishi pretending to support Southampton but didn’t know who’d qualified for the Euros
You have to tiptoe around some senior people at my work if their team plays badly and certain colours are pretty much banned from the office. That’s not normal behaviour.
No it's totally normalised behaviour. Which is part of the problem. You go into work and someone says to you "keep out of Steve's way today, Liverpool lost last night so he's like a bear with a sore head," the expected response is "OK, thanks for the heads-up" rather than "WTF, is he 12?"
Men sometimes do this, not necessarily because they want it to lead to a deep conversation about tactics or team allegiances, but because they are just trying to make conversation. It’s assumed to be a safe opening gambit as a topic, like the weather.
Sure, and that's fair enough. But having established "I have no interest in the weather" they've got nothing else so rather than changing the subject, poking at their phone for a bit or otherwise ****ing off and leaving you alone they proceed to channel their inner John Kettley for the next 40 minutes.
I cannot think offhand of a single other topic of conversation which spawns this sort of behaviour, football is unique in this regard. Perhaps because as others have alluded to it's a Lowest Common Denominator?
I’ve not been to a basketball ball match or baseball – I suspect I’d not enjoy either of those too.
I investigated baseball on holiday in Chicago a few years ago. It was on in a "sports bar" I went to, the guy coincidentally sat next to me was well into it so I asked him to explain. My conclusion after gaining a better understanding and watching it all evening is that it's cricket with all the excitement removed.
On the upside, the lass he failed to chat up turned out to be far more entertaining than the baseball and merited a return trip. 🙂
The reason these (regular) threads trigger me,
Sorry, "regular"? This is the first one I recall seeing.
He’s a lifelong Gooner.
WTF is a gooner?
When you see footage of British Indian and ****stani cricket supporters coming together to support England in the Euros at Edgbaston yesterday, it is clear that quite a lot of good can come from soccer.
Soccer?
Sorry, “regular”? This is the first one I recall seeing.
There was one a while back, I only remember because someone who wasn't actually into football was telling how he read about it anyway so he had something to talk about and "connect" with clients and that people really should do the same as it's an international language. Or something.
Came across as a real life Roy.
Soccer?
A contraction of "Association Football," just as rugby is a contraction of "Rugby Football." Other footballs are available also.
There was one a while back,
Ah, right. So "regular" means "this happened once before." [thumbs up emoji]
Came across as a real life Roy.
Huh? Who?
It’s on the football threads. There’s always one going on here where us poor unfortunates who are afflicted with a love of the sport go to bemoan our teams awful parasitic or murderous oil baron owners/insane managerial sacking/star strikers present terrible form/inexplicable VAR decisions/the awful brand of football played by Gareth Southgates squad
Delete as applicable.
With tedious regularity, rather than leave us to our misery, some Olly or other will pop in to tell us how ‘soccer’ is rubbish whereas Rugby is a ‘real man’s’ game or a ‘gentleman’s’ game. Then they proceed to bore us with some other tedious nonsense about footballists all being pansies, whereas a rugby player could be hoofed in the nads by a cart horse and still play a full match, drenched in blood, with their cobblers literally hanging by a thread out of the bottom of their shorts
It seems we’ve now moved in from that and they’re now starting specific threads about it
Football is a shower of shite, pub skittles is where it at.
I need to post so that you all have someone to unify you all in your bemusement. 😀
I'm a 55 year old man that occasionally watches a bit of eSports. Specifically Counter Strike.
We walk among you.
With tedious regularity, rather than leave us to our misery, some Olly or other will pop in to tell us how ‘soccer’ is rubbish
Apologies, may have got the wrong end of the stick earlier. If you have to deal with that calibre of numpty on a regular basis you have every right to be grumpy about it.
I watched the footie yesterday in a room full of bespectacled middle-aged lesbians. They weren't tattooed but did drink a moderate quantity of lager, although they tidied up quite quickly afterwards. There was one replica shirt on display