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Aggression and passion are essential components of the game, a little bit of professional gamesmanship has always been there, but this Newcastle side seem to have sly digs from back to front from first whistle to last and yet find themselves mortally offended at the slightest perceived offence by the opposition. The fact that the ref booked three Toon players for dissent after the Havertz lunge was refreshing. I actually think the issue here is Eddie Howe as his Bournemouth team used to try it on too, it was pathetic.
Mmmmm, I’d like it somewhere in the middle. It’s all a bit matey now, with hugs and shirt swapping after the game but you don’t want to see players trying to hurt each other.
Newcastle are good at the dark arts though, which belies Eddie Howe’s image - remember the time wasting last season!
@DazH - I was in the Stretford end for the reverse fixture at Old Trafford which finished with us winning 5-3 after us IIRC going behind 3 times. It was mental! I’ve never seen OT more venomous with Shearer just being relentlessly abused for 90 minutes.
One of the best matches I’ve ever been to. I took my fanatical Toon-supporting Geordie mate who was down from Newcastle for the weekend. He had to sit on his hands and STFU for the entire duration of the game 😂
I actually think the issue here is Eddie Howe as his Bournemouth team used to try it on too
Or is it more that Howe is extremely good at fostering a team spirit and ethic which results in the players defending each other to the last man? At Newcastle he's not only done that but also managed to unite the crowd with the players too. Howe understands what Newcastle supporters expect more than any other manager I've known, including Keegan and Robson. I mean, where else would you see players and the crowd celebrating a successful tackle as much as a goal?
Having said all that Bruno needs to wind it in a bit as he's gonna be a marked man and get himself sent off.
You seriously want to see football matches where everyone is nice and polite with no passion or aggression? I think you’ll find yourself in the minority.
Passion, 100%, absolutely. Aggression, no thanks.
I was in the Stretford end for the reverse fixture at Old Trafford which finished with us winning 5-3 after us IIRC going behind 3 times. It was mental! I’ve never seen OT more venomous with Shearer just being relentlessly abused for 90 minutes.
I was at the Leeds v Liverpool game when Leeds won 4-3 in 2000 – four shots on target, four goals. Shit-loads of passion shown but no aggression that I remember.
The fact that the ref booked three Toon players for dissent after the Havertz lunge was refreshing.
Havertz and Bruno were very lucky to stay on the pitch, they all know the rules on harassing the ref tho so I wasn't surprised they were booked, but why were none of the Arsenal players, who also chased and surrounded the ref after the VAR decision, not booked for dissent?
Arteta also said something along the lines of 'mistakes do happen and we should all try to support the ref/VAR as much as we can' after Luis Diaz had the goal disallowed against Spurs recently
but why were none of the Arsenal players, who also chased and surrounded the ref after the VAR decision, not booked for dissent?
Watching a recording now and honestly Arsenal give as good as they get on the niggling and moaning to the referee. All sides do it so I have no idea why the toon are being singled out.
Passion, 100%, absolutely. Aggression, no thanks.
Football is a contact sport. Aggression is absolutely part of it.
Passion, 100%, absolutely. Aggression, no thanks.
Have you ever played football? It’s very much a survival of the fittest/strongest sport. I stopped playing Saturday morning 11-a-side because I knew I was going to get seriously injured and simply didn’t have the aggression/competitiveness to cope with the physicality of it. I can barely imagine what it must be like at elite level.
Definitely agree contact sport, aggression and gamesmanship are skulls of the game.... dark arts really. Klopp and his complaining is gamesmanship to influence refs, its all part of the game. Most Successful teams have used a bit of aggression to reduce the impact of a skilful player....dave mackay, Billy bremnar, Sergio ramos. The entire Chelsea team in the 'battle of Stamford Bridge 2nd half' . I think it's fine so long as refs are good and when the line is crossed it gets punished. Clattenburg is on record saying he stepped back and let the players kick lumps out each other..... that was wrong, and unfortunately very few refs are good enough and Newcastle will gain an unfair advantage. It happens far too much. Look at ramos on salah, CL final ffs.
Have you ever played football?
Yes. And?
Whatevs 🤷♂️
Too many arguments going on elsewhere to have one here. You don’t like the way Howe’s team plays, fine, but don’t pretend any other team is any different. If Newcastle are better at it than the likes of Arsenal then that’s all good from where I’m standing.
A great display by Forest there. They had the measure of Villa right from the off, which is no easy task this season. A really solid defensive performance and looking sharp going forward
Watching a recording now and honestly Arsenal give as good as they get on the niggling and moaning to the referee. All sides do it so I have no idea why the toon are being singled out.
Hate to say it but I agree - to have a pop at Newcastle players given what Arsenal are like seems a bit selective.
I had money on Luton at 14/1 😡
Is the problem the Scousers/Fergie time, or your general failure to pick the winning bet? Did MrsBinners have it as a draw, she's usually more accurate.
You already know the answer to both those questions
Just caught up on this thread after the weekends events. I thought Arsenal fans were precious flowers til I read some of these comments. Saturdays game wasn't a 9 goal thriller with intricate interplay but it was bloody enjoyable. Newcastle won because they restricted Arsenal to 1 tame shot on target all night.
Arteta is just doing a Fergie and seems to have successfully distracted most people from the fact his chosen keeper had another error of judgement which led to a goal and his team are a little shot shy. However, for the club to double down on PGMOL isn's a good luck.
It reminds me of what Sir Bobby Robson said after Wenger had a similar moan on probably the last time we beat them:
'Some people around here need to learn how to lose'.
I'm an Arsenal fan, but a very pragmatic one. The nonsense around Bruno/Havertz is just that, nonsense. We didn't create anywhere near enough. I think we have a better team, slightly, than last year, but we aren't getting the results. I've been slagged off by other Arsenal fans for suggesting we will struggle to finish top 4, but I honestly think that's where we are at. Last season we had the wind in our sails but stumbled at the end. Look how many results we just about nicked last year. It's not happening this year.
Had the pleasure of watching Arteta's presser again. I really don't know how he takes himself seriously. I know Mourinho was prone to prima-donna whining but this is on another level. If he was trying to distract from his team's shortcomings then fair play to him, but he's really going beyond the call of duty. I suppose at least he didn't do a Klopp and demand a replay. 😀
Also Joelinton was immense in that game. I know Bruno gets all the attention at Newcastle (undeservedly so IMO) but JL is just as important when he's in this form. Good to have him back at his best in time for the Dortmund return match as he was a bit rusty in the last one.
It's all fun, Arsenal just don't have a proper top class forward, and they do seem a bit shot shy as well from the others in the team. Add that to the problem they have at left back, where they're either trying to get a player who isn't that defensive minded (Zinchenko) or a right back with no real left foot (Tomiyasu), they'll get hunted down that side by the big teams.
The leagues there for a few teams, Man City are prone to lapses as well, they just have such a formidable set up, that three or four centre backs in defence is starting to look pretty good these days, but then again those centre backs are good with the ball, so can cover defensive midfield as well.
Probably gonna be the kiss of death, but if you’re not watching Spurs v Chelsea then you’re missing a cracker.
RM.
Could do without Gary Neville, someone take away his soapbox and try and get him to just commentate on the game.
Johndoh will be repulsed by this!
Thats both Spurs centre half’s out for a few weeks…..
Missed the first half, so I hope the second is equally as bonkers!
As a Chelsea supporter. What are Spurs doing playing such a high line- on the halfway line when they only have 10 men? Bonkers
I don’t mind - aggression being punished with a sending off. Seems fair to me, that’s how it works (or at least should work).
What was I saying about aggression and passion and the battle of stamford bridge? Why do spurs get so dragged in!? Oh dear, this is bad.... much worse than just 3 points. Vdv out hamstring, madders or ankle, cuti .... being cuti ie stupid and now suspended....I reckon others won't make the end yet.
Fair enough johndoh. Although Udogie should have gone too.
Err..cough.
Imagine the score if Chelsea had anyone up front who could actually hit a barn door with a shovel
The dog got to 4 yellow and just waiting for 1 more for a suspension then gets a suspension for 2 yellow=red which doesn't reset the 4 yellow.... neck m back 2 games and repeat..... great talent.... like cuti, but 'kin hell, you need to be on the pitch more.
No thanks binners.
Sorry Neil. Wonder if even Jackson will score?! Spurs made heavy weather against Liverpool with 9 men, but they’ve even longer to survive here. Vicario is great eh?
C***t! It's this really the best game to continue bentancur 's return following acl reconstruction?
Skippy I just....I am lost for words..... like we are lost for players.
Chelsea are bottling it
How can you spend a billion quid and not have anyone who can finish?
I also can’t understand why Chelsea keep running offside. Surely they could just stand in their own half with Spurs playing so high.
I think postecoglou needs to learn high lines have a time and a place.
5 Offside goals, 2 sendings off, a few long term injuries - this is the maddest game I've seen for years.
Battle of Stamford Bridge took place on 25 September 1066.
It has sweet FA to do with 22 over-paid prima donnas kicking an inflated pigs bladder around on a piece of manicured grass in London.
I hate Spurs obvs. But you have to hand it to them. A really aggressive, confident performance. I don’t think this game is doing anything for Chelsea’s self belief whatsoever.
Entertainment no doubt. Although tnt injuries and suspensions have brought the fairytale 'we can dream' ride to an end now. Still....2 more transfer windows before next season and we can look to improve
Battle of Stamford Bridge took place on 25 September 1066.
It has sweet FA to do with 22 over-paid prima donnas kicking an inflated pigs bladder around on a piece of manicured grass in London.
Well that's literally your opinion.
I know Frank, but a game of football that sealed Leicester winning the prem got the nickname.
What I meant was: Nicholas Jackson. What a goal scoring machine 😕
Well that was amusing 😳
Battle of Stamford Bridge took place on 25 September 1066.
It has sweet FA to do with 22 over-paid prima donnas kicking an inflated pigs bladder around on a piece of manicured grass in London.
Was it on Sky Sports?
No, BBC 2.
Not an opinion; it is, literally, a fact.
Not an opinion; it is, literally, a fact.
Woosh.
Woosh.
A failed attempt at 'humour'.
Oh, your spelling is piss poor - whoosh.
If you have anything meaningful to say, don't hesitate to post - I really can't wait; yawn.
A failed attempt at ‘humour’.
Oh, your spelling is piss poor – whoosh.
If you have anything meaningful to say, don’t hesitate to post – I really can’t wait; yawn.
There's really no need to be so unpleasant. For the record, Chelsea's ground name being the same as the place in Yorkshire is purely coincidental, and figuratively, a tough game between rivals is often described as a battle. So your comment about "sweet FA" was incorrect, unless you're dull enough to insist that language must be purely literal.
Anyway, back to the football. Commentary suggested that Spurs took plenty from it despite the defeat, but I disagree. They lost four key players to injury or suspension, and I don't think their squad is deep enough to cope. Time will tell.
That high line was suicidal. A squad with some in form strikers would have run rampant through that and maybe got into double figures
Before Christmas a number of teams seem to be in with a chance, after Chrimbo Man City win it.
I went tonight (not a Spurs fan but never liked Chelsea). It was a nutty and very enjoyable night and Spurs did themselves proud. That stadium is something else…
Spurs did themselves proud
🤣
Really? Here’s another one 😂
Missed a lot of this but one thing that needs correction. Eddie Howe has not made Newcastle into a tough, niggly, just about the right side of the line side, where every man has his mate's back like you need to have to be competitive, and to say he has is very unfair.
Jason Tindall deserves the credit for that.
I admire Spurs for continuing to make the second half a great watch. I certainly didn't expect to it be especially after the second red. Maybe I'm being harsh, but I'm not sure I understand the praise being heaped on them. To continue to defend as they did when they were down to 9 men and at that moment they were still at 1-1 so not like they needed to chase the game. Getting a point out of that would have been a moral victory, getting beat 4-1 is definitely not.
but I’m not sure I understand the praise being heaped on them
If any other side had played that ridiculous high line with 9 or 10 men then we'd be reading about schoolboy naivety, but because of the hype around Postecoglou instead it's brave and gritty. The stupid thing is that Chelsea's front line were so profligate that had they simply parked the bus around the penalty area Chelsea wouldn't have won.
^That!
Jason Tindall deserves the credit for that.
Lol'd.
Maybe it's Howe who is the one responsible for the 2nd best GD in the Prem then? I find all that talk about grit a bit patronising. We've play some of the best football I've seen at the Toon - including when I had a season ticket in the Keegan years.
I see Arteta is still rattling on about the injustice of it all like some toddler who's had his sweets taken off him. He's not doing himself or Arsenal any favours with his incessant whining. Can't see many 50/50 on-field calls going their way any time soon.
That high line was suicidal. A squad with some in form strikers would have run rampant through that and maybe got into double figures
Thankfully Postecoglou was well aware of Chelsea's capabilities. I detest Chelsea and aren't a massive fan of Spurs but thought Spurs were superb/Chelsea laughably poor. If only Dier had stayed a foot onside for that "goal" at the end. The 2 late Jackson goals (jeez, how bad is he?) made the scoreline a total non-reflection on the actual game.
Romero is an absolute loose cannon isn't he? Whenever I watch Spurs he does something mental...
Arteta just needs to stop with the complaining, he's making no favours for himself, that goal was allowed simply because VAR couldn't provide conclusive proof otherwise, that's not robbery, it's just the lack of camera coverage.
Think Arteta needs to work out why he's messing about with his team so much that they barely had a shot at goal at the weekend, and how they can win against the big 4 or 5 clubs, all good and well rolling over the smaller teams, but Arteta doesn't seem to do that well against the big boys.
Arteta is doing what Fergie used to do - put pressure on refs so although the big decisions might go against them they'll get lots more decisions in the game. <br />They'll be awarded soft freekicks & the ref's will go easier on their side when they're pushing what an acceptable tackle is.
Yeah, but Fergie was doing it 20 years ago.
If you wanted to win yourself same soft reffing decisions, I'd say that nowadays it has the opposite effect as refs have now had more than enough of it.
Still banging on about it in the press days later is just embarrassing
Although I personally think the opinion on the foul for the Toon goal was wrong and it is very regrettable that it wasn't able to pronounce for certain on the two items of fact (was the ball over the line and was Gordon offside), at least the VAR could be seen to be going through the decision making process unlike the problem of a hurried and unstructured wrong decision around that disallowed Liverpool goal against Spurs earlier in the season. Unlike some other sports with technological assistance such as rugby or overseas football leagues, our referees come across as a bunch of jumped up twerps with an over-developed sense of self-importance who want to be a part of the game yet without any degree of empathy for how it is played; it's less about a failing of the system but more those operating it.
I thought the Havertz "tackle" was a straight red.
Bruno's elbow to the back of tyhe head also a straight red, not sure the ref saw it, var absolutley should have brought him to the screen. Also IMO that was violent conduct and should have been an extended ban by a couple of extra games.
The goal decision, specifically the foul, was the wrong decision IMO, however it wasn't a terrible decision, it was one of those that I can see the point of view of those who say it wasn't a foul, but two hands onn the back seems to normally be automatically given as a foul so it is inconsistent with what we normally see.
The Spurs/Chelsea game reminds me of when Chelsea played Man City in 2016. Some poor refereeing made it a niggly match with Aguero and Fernandinho being sent off for City. That result derailed City's title aspirations - wonder if Monday's game will have a similar effect on Spurs.
WRT the Bruno incident one of the pundits thought it wasn't pulled up because it was forearm rather than elbow, and that is OK. So it isn't a case of assault if you use the appropriate part of your body. Work that one out.
The biggest thing i couldn't understand, in this day and age with VAR, why the hell is Raheem Sterling diving at every opportunity, he had 2 or 3 worth yellows in that game, do the footballers forget that in the box there's pretty much full coverage?!
Derailed spurs' title aspirations? We didn't have any mate. Squad not deep enough. The damage from that game has now decimated us.
Yes I agree, attacking football=ange ball = how we play mate... but there comes a time where a compact and deep defensive unit has a place. Just because we finally managed to break through Liverpool's excellent efforts doesn't mean it wouldn't have worked better for us yesterday.
I'm not turning on Ange, I think it's right to start ambitious and not lose faith but when at 9 men ... trying to do energetic attacking ball, playing through the opposition is a big up hill battle.
Oh and if Messi says cuti is the best cb in the world I listen BUT even I know step one in the 'how to be a world class defender 101 manual' is BE ON THE PITCH! Destiny dawg needs to read that first page of the manual too.
I’m sure Big Ange said words to that effect to him. From a neutrals point of view he’s a quality player to watch as he’s either a match-winner or an absolute liability!
I know this because I’ve had him in my FF team for most of the season - I transferred hi out before last night though
I think Nunes must have found Sterling's slippy soled boots in the Etihad broom cupboard
He's struggling to stay upright tonight
I’m not turning on Ange, I think it’s right to start ambitious and not lose faith but when at 9 men … trying to do energetic attacking ball, playing through the opposition is a big up hill battle.
Maybe its the coming from Scottish football where Celtic could probably quite easily do that and still win with 9 on the pitch. Learning curve in a proper league... its probably similar to what led to Bielsa's downfall, plan A and if that doesn't work, stick with plan A 😀
its probably similar to what led to Bielsa’s downfall, plan A and if that doesn’t work, stick with plan A
^ Trudat
Bit of a lesson for the toon last night but CL this year was always going to be a learning process rather than a real ambition (it's already made us a better team IMO). Not sure it's much of a priority TBH so really won't be disappointed if/when we go out at the group stage with all the injuries we've got. Europa League might be a more realistic opportunity as long as we can clear the injury list. And we desperately need another forward in January, Wilson is out of his depth at this level.
I think the injuries have done for Newcastle.
last night, there was a young lad on the bench, Ben Parkinson, who hasn't played in a competitive 1st team game yet.
Not sure if I think finishing third and playing in the Europa league would be a good thing.
The priority has to be the league and pushing for CL again and try to have a go at the domestic cups.