Good to see VAR working faultlessly again
Croatia have royally ****ed that up. I wouldn't say it was blatantly a dive, there was contact but he absolutely played on it with the intent to get the pen and sending off, which was rightly denied (double jeopardy rule, penalty is enough, only a red for deliberately denying a GS opp or serious foul play / violent conduct - which is why the scot was sent off yesterday, the tackle was a red card offence, not the penalty itself)
So they swapped a genuine open goal if he hadn't 'dived' for a penalty and no sending off. And then missed the penalty, only to get lucky with a rebound, except they ****ed that up too.
Top work, fellas.
Watched the Spain/NI friendly last week and thought they looked a handful. Goals from all over the place. Croatia should have pulled one back and given them a sterner examination though. Definitely not a penalty, easier to score than perform that elaborate a dive - and if you are adjudged to have taken down an opposing player as they stand in front of an open goal, that has to be red, no?
Funniest moment was Morata wanting to come off with injury, the youngsters playing on and him being forced to boot the ball out himself 30 seconds later to get treatment!
Was a penalty, there was no doubt about contact from behind so even if he'd also played the ball penalty would be right.
and if you are adjudged to have taken down an opposing player as they stand in front of an open goal, that has to be red, no?
No, as I said there's now a double jeopardy rule. Has been in place for a while now. About 2/3 of the way down https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/fouls-and-misconduct/#disciplinary-action
A genuine attempt to play the ball but that results in denial of a goal scoring opportunity (DOGSO) is not automatically a red card.
If it's outside of the box then DOGSO takes preference and it's a freekick and a red card
If it's inside the box the penalty is the sanction. To also send off was felt to be punishing twice for the same offence.
If the offence itself is worthy of a red card then you can still get both (serious foul play like last night, double footed lunge), or if the offence is deliberate like a goal-line handball or holding, rather than genuine footballing mistake like a mistimed tackle, then it is still a red card.
Come on Albania!
Plenty of goals in the opening games, following an increase in goals per game in domestic leagues over recent seasons. Good to see teams having a go.
So that's 0-0 later then.....
Though Albania put up a pretty decent fight there.
Spain looked great, I don't see why they weren't one of the fancied teams. I mean, I don't follow Spanish football that closely, but every time I see the national team play there are several new 12 year olds that could make Phil foden look like Emile Heskey. They must have a factory!
Not enough T-Rexes but otherwise the Dutch are doing their thing
That Dutch thing is beautiful and shows what footy is all about, not too keen on the colour orange though.
😆
Poland Netherlands is a cracker of a game so far.
Nice to see the England supporters living up to their reputation.
****ing morons
I'm sure there are some English fans involved but reports I have read so far suggest that it has been going on all day between locals and Serbia, and then Albania and Serbia fans. It's easy to jump to conclusions but tarring all with the same brush (there are 40,000 there apparently) is not correct
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1802357897503940949?t=Yj-C0UqCeFKaWtEJoiNYOw&s=19
That’s a seriously attacking line up. I wouldn’t fancy being a defender with Foden, Bellingham, Saka and Kane running at you.
Trent should have a field day with those 4 to aim at
Good to see Southgate going all out
It's never easy against these Balkan teams, they're technically gifted. And tall.
cripes shearer is appalling as a commentary pundit 😕
deja vu of england croatia at the moment
It's so pedestrian, so slow, losing the ball ,so many mistakes. The contrast after watching Spain and Holland etc.
Glad it's not just me. The top teams aren't going to be quaking in their boots watching this.
England somehow always seem to be less than the sum of their parts.
You can smell the fear.
Bellingham made them tick in the first half but he's really dropped off since. Just then, dawdled to get the cross in which was one thing but then jogged back, was 15 second late in coming back into the defensive shape and consequently let Serbia walk the ball up to the edge of the centre circle again.
We're just poor this second half.
Manning far too many poor decisions and passes.
Kane's been bullied by the old fashioned centre back as well, means we haven't had an out ball all second half.
I thought we were pretty lethargic first half too.
So glad the Beeb repeated the Northern Soul At The Proms KTF 👊
I don't think too many people would be digging in their pocket and putting a bet on England winning this after today.
Is Gallagher on to play the Grealish role of falling on the ground?
This won't worry the big teams.
What a terrible game of football.
Serbia are decent. But that was a poor second half from England, pretty turgid. Three points though.
So England are ranked 4th according to fifa
Serbia 33rd.
You’d never have guessed after that.
International football can be a cagey beast. Teams are all technically good, and organised. And yes, FIFA rankings, I’d not believe anything FIFA says.
Decent first half but never really tried to put the Serbs to the sword. Second half when they should have done that they went weak kneed a and spineless. 3 points, but they need to do better. Much better.
Foden just seems to shrink in an England shirt. He’s nowhere near the player he is for City.
Southgate plays him in peripheral positions frequently. It's like he doesn't want him him to succeed but feels he must play him to keep fans quiet.
Decent result. 3 points and a clean sheet. First 30 mins made Serbia look ordinary but they are a decent team and came back well. Of course I'd love to see them walk every game but they need to grow into the tournament.
The subs worked ok. A few things to work on. Bring on the next game.
Foden just seems to shrink in an England shirt. He’s nowhere near the player he is for City.
I don't think he works well with that position, team shape, and lack of constant energy/support from team-mates. You watch him for City as he, Silva, Rodri, De Bruyne, Haaland and Grealish just flick the ball around and drag the opposition out of shape, which creates the space and confidence to do the things he does. Here he had very few offload options, constantly ending up in blind alleys, and eventually just losing the ball with mistakes or just getting swamped.
There were very few moments where England were forcing the pace, sending extra people forward, even just after the goal when they should have been trying to kill the game off.
I still don't understand the Grealish decision. It's not all about club goals and assists.
Good to see the kid in Leeds on news at 10 was still in pub at the end. Looked 13, but hey ho you'd need a drink after that.
Foden looks tiny next to other England players, never mind the tall serbs. I'm not sure he fits the formation or style England plays, and isn't a big enough character to demand the ball and drive the game, like Jude did in the first half.
Jude is definitely the player the team should be built around. A Grealish would have made a good balance to Saka, despite his average personal performance season.
It’s a win innit.
Are Denmark any good?
Denmark is full of older players who were fantastic in their prime but migbt be a tournament too far for them IMO. I expect Serbia to get second place in the table.
Can't believe the player ratings in the Guardian - lots of 6's for the Serbs and a number of 8's for England - https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/16/serbia-0-1-england-player-ratings-from-euro-2024-group-c-game Was the person who did the ratings watching the same game as me???
Having the highest player ratings is of no value if you don’t win the game 🤷♂️
Having the highest player ratings is of no value if you don’t win the game
Errr...
Foden had a poor game. You can’t blame the formation for some of the poor touches he had second half. I think he would be better centrally but that would mean less of a free role for Bellingham as he’d play alongside Rice. He’d have benefitted from a left back prepared to venture over the halfway line though. I guess if they win the next game they could experiment a bit?
Not convinced by Trent in midfield either, he’s only ever started a handful of games there, and he can be very casual on the ball, losing it in bad areas.
Trent AA won't play there against better teams.
Southgate will put a 2nd defensive midfielder in next to Rice.
Like a number of England games these days, that was horrible to watch. The opening 20 minutes or so was good and encouraging and then we spent the rest of the game playing useless, slow, pointless passing, drifting ever further back. I don't understand why we feel the need to play so slowly and underhit the passes which eventually ends up putting the defence under pressure to the point we either concede a goal or hoof it up the pitch. I get the idea that you want to pass the ball around a bit to try and draw the opposition out of position and create space but we do it so slowly that it never actually pans out that way. Ends up making it a frustrating watch rather than an enjoyable experience. Contrast that with, say, Germany in the opening game where the passes were crisper, players were moving at pace and the defence were being pulled all over the place. Or Serbia in the same game as us. Quicker passing and changes of pace left our defence exposed. Thankfully Serbia didn't have the nous in that game to do anything with it. Hope things improve in the next match!
Foden had a poor game. You can’t blame the formation for some of the poor touches he had second half.
Oh absolutely, but I certainly think he's a confidence player, and was probably getting frustrated with the whole team's inability to play with any energy by the second half. Even Bellingham seemed to catch the negative spirit and it affected his game. I get the feeling him and Bellingham are a repeat of the classic Lampard/Gerrard problem, both exceptional players, but somehow they don't gel if you try to play both of them. Could be a three way thing, Kane/Bellingham/Foden - pick two.
Also:
Foden plays in a different position and role with City. Southgate chooses to mis-manage him. Should have replaced him with Gordon to create a proper attacking option down the left.
Had to laugh at Southgate's presser - the players worked too hard in the first half and need to conserve energy. Seriously? Does he not know that players in possession make the ball do the work, ie England kept the ball well in the first 30 mins and the Serbs were the ones chasing shadows. How about setting the team up to play to their strengths and take the handbrake off. Not going to happen with My Play Safe in charge.
Foden started the game finding good positions to receive the ball but he looks to occupy narrow gaps between players that his City teamates like Rodri or De Bruyne can find him in. Unfortunately, some England players aren't as good as passing or used to trusting him in those tight spaces - at the minute anyway. His game relies on that quick interchange of passing and therefore he's a bit of an outlyer in this team. I really like Trippier but he didn't link with him well (which is understandable given he's hardly match fit, right footed, and playing on the left).
We didn't maintain any sort of tempo unfortunately but that is normal for first game in a tournament. Better to finish well that start like a house on fire and fade. Some players ought to be looking over their shoulder after that display though. Southgate likes his favourites but he can't allow them to get complacent.
Just to point out that England did actually win last night...
Bowen did well when he came on, he replicates what Saka offers pretty well (plus he got 20 league goals this season playing as a striker, something Moyes deserves a bit of credit for). So the right wing looks pretty sorted.
I'd like to have seen Gordon down the left, even at the expense of (or at least coming on for) Foden. He's have pinned the Serbs back a bit more with his pace and directness.
Bellingham is a boss, it's all about him. He sets the tempo of the team and everything revolves around him. As great as Foden is, he looks like a spare part in the England set up. No doubt he'd do better if he was played in his best position but with Bellingham around that's not going to happen so it's one or the other I'm afraid.
He does but equally when he faded (and he can be a bit bolshy too, as I said last night he made a run, got muscled out, didn't get a freekick and moped back upfield leaving the shape exposed) - then the whole team's tempo faded and that's when another threat is needed.
Easier said than done but other / better teams will I think man mark him to deny him and England space to tick, what we do then will be interesting.
It’s a nice problem to have compared to say, Che Adams or Lawrence Shankland up front.
Controversial opinions but:
Bellingham and Foden is another Gerard Lampard situation. Both the same player, one or the other please. Tough but there you go.
TAA is not a midfielder and there’s absolutely no way that we could entertain carrying him in that role against anyone of real quality.
Last night’s problems were all caused by having no width on the left and missing a man in midfield. Benching TAA and Foden for Gallagher and Gordon would solve them.
Controversial opinions but: Bellingham and Foden is another Gerard Lampard situation.
Hardly controversial – several others have already said it on this thread and journalists have been saying the same since the squad was announced (and probably before too).
Benching TAA and Foden for Gallagher and Gordon would solve them.
Very much agree but it will never happen. Southgate has his favourites and nothing will persuade him otherwise.
Foden can play down the left, but, needs fluidity around him to switch positions.
Last night the game was crying out for someone to hold up the ball - a Jack Grealish type of player.
Would it be better to put TAA at left back to help Foden & pop Gallagher in the center?
Can't see why you're complaining, first game of the tournament, up against the toughest in your group and you get 3 points, the other two drew, so will make your next two games a bit easier as the pressures on the others now.
Bigger issue over the next couple of games is getting a formation to face big teams, i just can't see Trippier at left back being a good idea against France, Germany, etc, same with the TAA experiment in midfield, it's almost as if you're hunting for a position that works for him, rather than looking at a player who will work in that position, you've got Mainoo and Wharton who i'd guess were more natural in there.
I'm not against TAA, i just think Liverpool have caused this issue, they have built around him, and it's not the same when he's playing for England, same with Foden, but at least with him up the field it doesn't hurt as much.
The decision to only have one dedicated left forward when there is only an unfit dedicated left full back in the squad is just baffling.
It’s perfectly possible to play without a wide forward on the left and pack the midfield as Villa have done all season, You can’t do that without a solid left back.
Our fate was sealed before we even left Blighty.
The Gerard Lampard problem wasn't so much that they were too samey, but that they weren't intelligent enough to work it out and adjust their individual talents to the need of the team - their relative failures as managers has been absolutely no surprise. Foden has to show intelligence and relegate his preferences for the team and then he will be fine. That said, I think I would prefer a dedicated wide left player to be picked in the first place.
I don't think we need 2 defensive midfielders, especially with our whole back 4 mainly staying deep, rice is good enough to handle the defensive midfield role by himself. Then with Foden in the number 10 role and Bellingham going box to box, I would have a front line of Gordon, Kane and Saka.
Then you would have Palmer, TAA and Mainoo as the first options to change the game.
It almost feels like Southgate just doesn't fancy Foden and TAA in the starting 11 and just leaves them hanging with the tactics and positions he asks them to play. As if he is setting them up so that he can justify leaving them out later on, he doesn't seem to want to give the team instructions that take advantage of their skills.
I think it’s a numbers thing. I don’t doubt that Rice is a great player but if we’ve only one man in there we’ll get over run especially with 2 x no 10s in front of him.
I think Gallagher is a good compromise of someone disciplined enough to hold but competent enough to play further forward at this level when we have the ball.
Seems that the main flashpoint was over who was getting a tasty steak dinner. Overall one England fan arrested along with seven Serbians.
At a press conference in Gelsenkirchen, Peter Both, the police chief responsible for the event, said it was not clear who provoked the violence but that eight men would face criminal proceedings.
He said: “The Serbian fan group was already in the restaurant and obviously ate there and then a larger group of English fans then tried to get into this restaurant as well. And that’s exactly what sparked the dispute.
“What we can hardly say now, of course, in retrospect, is did the Serbs refuse entry to the English or did the English provoke the Serbs? Of course, this can hardly be brightened up afterwards. The fact is that when they tried to enter the pub, there was an immediate physical altercation.”
Both said he would recommend that those arrested are banned from attending tournament games. He said: “We subsequently made several detentions. We carried out a total of around 50 identity checks. We took eight fans into custody before the game, who were then unable to watch the game.”
Both, who had warned before the “high-risk” game of the possibility of disorder, said the behaviour of the England fans had otherwise been “great”.
With Walker and Trippier not being used in attack too much, I don't think we need the numbers defending in midfield, if the fullbacks are roaming forward at every opportunity then a 2nd defensive minded mid makes more sense, but they have clearly been instructed to stay in a defensive shape so it becomes an unnecessary tactic that unbalances the attack.
Foden kept drifting inside too much, Trippier couldn't push an overlap because Foden wasn't in position to do that and by being inside he allowed the Serbian defence to close up reducing his space. Looked like he was sulking that he's not playing 10, which with the form Bellingham is in is fair enough.
TAA just seemed to spend too much.time as Rices shadow, too often he was too late to the position so Rice got possession but then spent time standing around where Rice already was. If England are going to play 2 defensive mids the other one needs to know what they are doing.
Seeing as they were only playing with 1.5 defensive mids yesterday they may as well drop TAA, play someone that likes to play wide left (Gordon or Eze) and then have Foden sit more central by design and allow him and Bellingham to interchange.
Belgium or Ukraine would gladly swap with us.
I feel sorry for France having to scrape together that starting 11
Nice to see the favourites not having it all their own way and walking all over Austria
